City Council Work Session and Regular Meeting

Catherine ReadWelcome to our work session for April 22nd, 2025. This is the first of our work sessions this evening. Welcome everybody here to our work session before the meeting which will begin at 7 p.m. tonight. At this time I will now recognize Ms. Clark for our first work session item.

ClarkclerkOur first item is a discussion on the community survey process. I will recognize Matthew Kaiser, Communications Director, for the staff report.

Speaker 38Good afternoon Mayor Reed, City Council. I'm We're joined today by Jason Morato. He is the Vice President and Director of Community Research for ETC Institute. They are the firm that will be running the community survey for us. He just flew in from Kansas City, just arrived, so we're ready to go.

Jason MoratoThanks. Well, good afternoon. My name is Jason Morato. I'm the Vice President and Director of Community Research at ETC Institute. and we are a marketing research firm that specializes in conducting statistically valid community surveys with city and county governments and soon will be for the first time conducting a community survey for the city of Fairfax so today I'm just going to give an overview of the process for conducting a community survey and then if there are any questions I'll be happy to answer those I just have a little background about ETC Institute we are a national research for local governments. We've been doing this type of work for over 40 years. And in the last 10 years alone,

we've conducted surveys to more than a thousand communities across the country. Some of our recent Virginia clients include Virginia Beach, Norfolk, Manassas, Alexandria, Winchester. We're actually just getting ready to start a survey now for Fairfax County. And we've also conducted surveys for cities about the same size as the city of Fairfax all across the country. really the type of work that we specialize in. So there are three main phases to conducting the community survey. The first step is to design the survey instrument and develop the sampling plan. The second phase is for us to administer the survey and get feedback from your residents. And then for the final phase, we'll process, analyze the data,

and then provide a survey findings report. So the first step is designing the survey instrument. to design the survey questions. Most surveys include a combination of standard questions that we ask in other cities across the country, combined with some more customized survey questions tailored specifically for Fairfax. It's really up to you to determine what ratio you want of standard versus customized questions. For the standard questions, for those questions we'll be able to compare your results with other communities across the country, but then a lot of cities also like to have more questions specifically for them. The typical ratio is about 60 to 70% standardized questions. The rest of them are more customized,

but we'll work with staff together and kind of designing the survey instrument. And usually it takes three to four drafts until we have a survey that we're ready to administer. And of course, we'll wait till we have city approval before we actually begin administering the survey. And when it comes to the sampling plan, we'll be surveying a random sample of city residents. And we want to make sure that the demographics respondents reflect the actual population of the city. That's always one of the most important things to ensure that the survey results are statistically valid. When it comes to administering the survey, the survey is administered by a combination of mail and online, and that's our standard methodology

for these community surveys. We'll mail the survey to randomly selected households throughout the city, and that mailed survey will also include a postage paid return reply envelope no cost for residents who want to complete the survey by mail. The mailed survey will also have a link to an online version of the survey, and then the envelope that the survey's mailed in will have a QR code that links to the online survey. So there's multiple ways that residents can complete the survey, and the reason we like that hybrid approach is it allows us to reach a more diverse group of residents and get a better response rate by giving people different ways they can fill out the survey. And as we're administering this survey, we'll make sure that the demographics of survey

reflect the actual population of the city. There really are two things that have to happen in order for survey results to be considered statistically valid. One is that households are selected at a random to participate in the survey and then the other thing is that the demographics of survey respondents need to reflect the actual population of the city. So we'll be monitoring key demographic areas such as age, race, ethnicity, gender, then geographic location across the city. And then for the final phase, we'll process, analyze the data, and provide a survey findings report. The report will include a summary that gives an overview of the methodology that we used to administer the survey. It'll highlight key findings from the survey.

We'll include charts and graphs for each question that was on the survey. The survey also will include some benchmarking comparisons. What we'll do is we'll compare your results to other communities across the country. I'll show an example of that in just a minute here. The report will also include what we call important satisfaction analysis, and that's a tool that we use to help cities determine which areas should be the highest priorities for the city to focus on over the next couple of years. I'll explain that in more detail in just a minute as well. And then we'll also include what we call GIS maps. And what we'll do there is take the survey results and break them out geographically the city and then after we provide that report one of our staff members will

come out and give a presentation of our survey findings this is just an example of the type of benchmarking data that will provide this slides from a survey we recently conducted for the city of Manassas so here you can see the dark blue line or Manassas residents who are either very satisfied or satisfied with these services. The light blue line represents a regional average. Those are the satisfaction ratings for residents throughout Virginia as well as surrounding states. And then the gray bar are satisfaction ratings from residents from all across the country. So this really adds context to the data and helps you understand what these results mean. For example, if you look at the third row from the bottom, effectiveness of communication with the community.

Manassas had a 53% satisfaction rating. You might wonder, is that good? Is that we can see that's above the regional average and it's far above the national average so that's actually a really good rating for communication so that's really the value of this benchmarking data that will provide this is something that we call the important satisfaction rating and this is something we use to really help communities determine what area should be the highest priorities to focus on this is based on two different types of data first we ask residents then we asked which services residents feel should be the top priorities for city leaders to focus on and the idea behind this is that the items that have

a combination of low satisfaction ratings but at the same time a rate as the most important are the ones we identify as the highest priorities the reason we like to factor in both satisfaction and importance when setting priorities is because you could have an area that has a low satisfaction rating but that doesn't necessarily mean that residents wanting to invest a lot of So it's good to factor in both satisfaction and importance when you're trying to set priorities. So this here is an example for a survey we conducted recently for the City of Norfolk. You can see for them public schools and traffic flow are the highest priorities. And then this is something we call our GIS maps. What we do here is we break the results out by census block group.

It's great to have the results overall for all response that fill out the survey. lets you take a look at to see if there are certain areas within the city who have different perceptions or ratings of city services. This example is for a city we recently surveyed in Texas, and this shows the ratings for sidewalks in your neighborhood. The dark blue areas are the highest rated areas. So you can see there's one area where residents are very satisfied with sidewalks. The light blue are good ratings as well, and the yellow are some of the lower areas. So overall, the city received very good ratings at it broken out by census block group you can really identify which areas have the lowest ratings. So that's just a fairly brief overview of the overall

process for conducting the survey. Typically this process takes about four months, about a month to design the survey questions, about two months to prepare this, prepare the survey for printing and mailing and then administer the survey, and then about a month for us to process and analyze the data and report so at that if anyone has any questions I'd be happy to answer them

Catherine Readquestions from the dais councilmember Hall

Stacy Hallhow

Speaker 21many

Stacy Hallsurveys do you think how many surveys do you think you would be sending out for about 24,000 ish residents our

Jason Moratogoal is to receive at least 400 completed surveys which is a very typical response rate for a city of this size. Really for cities up to even 50 or 60,000 residents, 400 surveys is the common goal for number of completed surveys. The typical response rate for a survey of this length, and this survey will be about five to six pages long, it'll have about 25 to 30 questions, so it's a pretty lengthy survey. The typical response rate is around 12 to 15%. So we mail surveys to about seven to eight times surveys that we need. So in this case, we'll be mailing a survey to about 3,000 randomly selected households. Now we're guaranteeing a minimum of 400 completed surveys. If we have a really good response, we may end up with more than that. We might end up with 430 or 450, but guarantee a

minimum of 400 surveys. Okay.

Stacy HallExcuse me. I think you answered about three questions in one, so that's great. What languages do you send them out in?

Jason MoratoWe haven't talked about that too much with based on each city but we definitely can make it available in multiple languages typically we mail the survey just in English but then we'll mail a cover letter along with the survey that describes the purpose of the survey and we can translate part of that cover letter into multiple languages and then the online version of the survey is available in multiple languages as needed and a lot of times we'll also provide a phone number for residents who want to call in and take the survey over the phone in a different language or just have a question about the survey.

Stacy HallOkay. So that service then is offered in whatever language they would need when they call?

Jason MoratoYeah, that's exactly right.

Stacy HallOkay. That's great. And then as far as the numbers for the residents across the U.S., is this just accumulation of all of the surveys that you've done across the country or are you pulling from other sort of satisfaction survey data elsewhere?

Jason MoratoThere's two different sources for that benchmarking data. One are cities that we've surveyed all across the country but then also every one to two years ETC Institute conducts a national survey with about 10,000 randomly selected residents across the country so that's part of the benchmarking data we'll compare your results with our national survey but then we also can compare your results with specific cities that we've surveyed we don't usually provide the results for specific surveys but we'll provide an average for, say, cities in Virginia, or it could be in cities of similar size to Fairfax from across the country.

Catherine ReadOkay. Thank you very much.

Jason MoratoSure.

Catherine ReadOther questions? Council Member Peterson.

Speaker 38The non-respondents. Do you expect non-response bias of any significance?

Jason MoratoNo, I don't. The typical response rate is 12 to 15%, which is a good response rate. were 5% or lower than that, then I would be concerned with that. But I don't expect the response to be that low. It really never is in our surveys. I think offering in that hybrid approach where we give people different ways to fill out the survey helps us get a good response.

Speaker 38Well, maybe to ask it a slightly different way, what is the experience in terms of the perspectives, the survey-based results from people who do respond? In other words, for people who do not respond, are they likely to be more satisfied and people who do respond are less or vice versa? Do we have any sense around that?

Jason MoratoWell, these results should represent the entire city because they are statistically valid. So the non-people who don't respond, the results should be similar to this. Now, there is a margin of error. The results are not perfect even for a statistically valid survey. but the fact that households are selected at random and that the demographics of our survey respondents reflect the actual population of the city means that these results truly do represent the entire city within a small margin of error.

Speaker 38And pardon me for not knowing the history but has there been a survey like this done maybe this is a staff question previously for the city or is this the first time?

Tom ReinerI believe this would be the first time.

Speaker 38And just to follow up on that, would this survey then serve the function of and be designed to provide a baseline, if you will, to see what sort of changes occur in the future if we do come back at another point?

Jason MoratoYeah, absolutely. Most cities we work with do conduct these surveys on a regular basis. The most frequent timeframe is every other year. Some do it only every three to four years. Some actually do it every year. And a lot of the questions would remain the same for exactly that reason, so you can measure trends over time, but then also so you know what the current priorities are for residents. But then there's the option each time to change in a few questions as needed. So, yeah, most cities do conduct these types of surveys on a regular basis.

Speaker 38And then you mentioned roughly 60% to 70% standard questions. 30 to 40 customized. For the customized questions, what sorts of things do you customize versus using standard benchmarking questions in a case like this?

Jason MoratoSome cities might provide services that are a little more unique. And it's not that we've never asked that question before, but maybe something we just don't ask as frequently. Something like that. There might be some, I know we surveyed a city recently that had specific questions about, related to growth that was unique to their city. So those types of questions. And that 60 to 70% ratio of standard versus customized is just an average ratio. It can be whatever ratio we want.

Speaker 38And then I guess this may be a staff question, but it's a survey question as well. More generally, you're sending a mail survey out. I'm guessing that's because mail is the most effective way to get a response, but I am curious how that compares with digital, with electronic survey outreach, because we have this standard question in the city of which tools to use for which audiences. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

Jason MoratoYeah, it's a mail-online combination. So we mail the survey to the randomly selected households, but then that mailed survey does have a link to an online survey. The URL will be printed on the survey, Also, there's a QR code on the envelope. I think one of the benefits of doing a mailed survey is that it makes the survey seem more legitimate. We'll include a cover letter that'll include city letterhead, usually signed by the mayor or city manager, briefly describes the purpose of the survey. So I think that helps the survey seem more legitimate. Typically, about 30 to 40% of surveys are completed by mail. The other 60 to 70% online. So we still get a pretty good response to the mailed survey, but it does as time goes on skew a little more towards towards online

I worked at the ETC Institute for 20 years and we first started it was all mail and phone sometimes even just phone And then as time has gone on we've you know Graduates and now this current method which seems to be the most effective way

Speaker 38Thanks, and my last question is for cities where either you or someone has repeated surveys on some regular basis. As a practical matter, how much change do you see and might we expect if we were to repeat this in the future?

Jason MoratoI mean, it definitely varies a lot from one community to the next. Usually over a span of a couple years, it's not huge changes, but there could be, especially if there are significant road improvements or changes to the way you're offering some type of city services those things can certainly affect changes I mean it really varies a lot from one seat to the next depending on just what all is taking place with the city

Speaker 38thank you

Catherine Readcouncilmember Hardy Chandler

Stacey Hardy-Chandlerso I was delighted to hear you know attempts to get a representative sample we certainly want information from across the city so if you're doing a random sample and you said you're monitoring incoming responses for demographic representation so how do you make adjustments to your approach in order to make sure that you're getting that diversity of age and background and that sort of thing

Jason Moratoyeah so as we're administering this survey if we're not getting enough surveys from a certain demographic group whether it be younger residents or a certain geographic part of the city then we'll do more outreach to try different ways we could do that. We use whatever method it seems like would work best with that group. One of the most common methods is we'll send out a postcard with the QR code and a link to the online survey. We could even mail additional surveys if we think that would be best. So those are some of the most common ways. We use text messages, but not as often. That's really kind of if we just need a small number of surveys. So we just determine which method really would be the best way to reach whatever group we're missing.

Stacey Hardy-ChandlerIs there any way or what are the most effective ways that maybe council members or other elected officials can help support the survey process and get the word out, make sure outreach is stronger?

Jason MoratoYeah, I think just raise awareness of the survey, just mention it, especially before people receive the survey in the mail so they're keeping an eye out for it and they're hopefully less likely to just throw it away thinking it's junk mail so yeah just mentioning it to people increasing awareness that that definitely could help the response rate

Stacey Hardy-Chandlerand and when are we launching

Jason Moratoi don't know if we've determined that yet we haven't started designing the survey yet but typically that process takes about a month and then it takes us from that point a couple weeks for us to prepare the survey for printing and mailing so it will still be a little while

Catherine ReadCouncil member Amos.

Anthony AmosThank you for being here. My pretty much my only question is this is also broken down by household type you know townhomes apartments things like that.

Jason MoratoYeah it absolutely can be. We always want to include at least some basic demographic questions on the survey age, race, ethnicity, gender. We can include other ones as well like type of house, household income, How residents have lived in the city? Those are really optimal questions we can ask if needed if you want to see the results broken out that way. But they're pretty common questions.

Anthony AmosAnd this may be an unnecessary question, but I figure I just ask real quick. So when you do your comparisons when analyzing the data, do you also factor in variations in policies that exist between different localities and states? For example, we're in a Dillon rule state. do you compare that with data from locations that are in home rule states and what we're allowed to do and not allowed to do it it may not be important but just wondering right

Jason Moratoyeah I don't know that we factor that in too much I mean we could there's really we have a lot of flexibility in how we compare the results now the more specific we get the less cities we have to compare you with so we have to keep that in mind I don't know that we've done that before but but we could but yeah there's a lot of flexibility in how we can benchmark you other communities.

Catherine ReadCouncilmember McQuillan.

Rachel McQuillenUnderstanding that we have some people out there that are illiterate, do you then go to phone calls if you find that you're not getting responses through the QR codes in the mail? You mentioned that you do text messages or you used to.

Jason Moratoit we do use text messages really as one of our follow-up methods just as needed we don't do it for every survey we typically include a phone number on the mailed survey people who want to call us and take the survey over the phone we don't place many outgoing phone calls anymore we used to do that a lot but now it's just very difficult to get a hold of people and most people don't want to take the survey over the phone but it's an option for those who do want to do the survey that way

Rachel McQuillenwonderful and then I had one more question about the detail in designing the questions I recognize that some of those questions that you showed earlier said quality so can you dive deeper into that kind of stuff then I understand that we have some control over the design and

Jason Moratoyeah absolutely so a lot of these questions I looked at or I showed at the beginning of this survey there's typically a question that asks about major categories of city services. We're asking residents to rate these areas at the big picture departmental level and that's really what a lot of this is. But then later on the survey we do ask about more specific areas within some of these categories. So here for example it just says quality of police services. Then later on we might ask about visibility of police in neighborhoods, how quickly police respond to emergencies enforcing traffic laws so yeah this is kind of the beginning of the survey big picture we get into more detail as residents get into the survey thank

Rachel McQuillenyou i just didn't want to assume thank you

Jason Moratoyeah other

Catherine Readquestions um so if we are going to support the survey i guess my question is if everyone's not receiving the survey and we're supporting the survey what happens when people like I didn't get one well

Jason Moratothe reason we do a random sample is that so the results can't be skewed right by non respond totally makes sense so that's so that's you know the reason why we do this now one thing some cities do in addition to this we open the survey up for anyone to fill out but we would separate out the random sample for saying when else who fill out the survey and we would provide both sets of data but our main report like you're seeing here would be based on that random sample. It

Catherine Readtotally makes sense to do a randomized sampling, but it's just like if we're telling everybody, look for your survey, answer the survey, and people are like, but we have a very engaged community

Gwen Riddlestaffhere. It's very engaged.

Catherine ReadAnd I can just, people going, I didn't get one. So I'm just trying to, in my head, figure out what our plan is for responding to, oh, so you didn't get a survey, and if we can collect and separate out that data, and you're telling me that we can do that.

Jason MoratoWe can. Yeah, that's something, yeah, that's pretty common. We don't do it that way for every survey, but fairly often. So yeah, we can definitely do that. The way that works is the printed survey has the address on the back so we know what address it came from. And then if someone takes a survey online, they provide their home address. And that's how we separate out the random sample versus anyone else who took the survey.

Catherine ReadPerfect. Any other questions? All right. Thank you very much this was very informative and we appreciate it

Jason Moratothanks everyone

Catherine Readmiss Clark

Clarkclerkour next item is a discussion and update on the fire station number three feasibility study I will recognize John O'Neill fire chief for the staff presentation

John O'NeillstaffGood evening, Mayor and Council. A little tech support. Thanks. We wanted to provide you with an update on the Station 3 project and provide you with some background on how we got to where we are today. And after the presentation, solicit feedback from you. Before I turn the floor over to Mr. Mark Minetti to discuss the feasibility study, space needs analysis, and initial concept designs, I wanted to give a little background. In the fall of 2021, we opened the new fire station 33. At that time, there were a lot of discussions with the council and city manager on their desire to improve the quality of life and address health and safety concerns at station three, thus providing the same quality work environment for both work groups.

As you may know or heard me mentioned in the past, station 33 has many cancer reduction features and technologies with deer gear decontamination spaces isolation zones and separate storage areas for personal protective equipment not exposing them to the diesel exhaust on the apparatus bay floor 33 was also designed to help address sleep deprivation concerns with the individual bunk rooms knowing sleep deprivation has a direct link to cancer and cardiac risk additionally 33 provided equipment and help to ensure safe apparatus movements along with adequate storage and work areas. So in mid FY22 the funds were appropriated to start the feasibility study and the future replacement for station 3. We put out an

RFP for feasibility study and possible design options and eventually awarded the contract to the BKV Architect Group in September of 22. The CIP project subsequently was endorsed by the Planning Commission each year during the budget processes and funds were appropriated for the land acquisition and design it was also at that time that we started the serious discussions with the Fairfax volunteer fire department board of directors on the transfer of the land and the building of the current station 3 to the city and as you may know or remember the design concept process was stalled for a period of time as we explored land acquisition options and we started back with that process after we acquired the Mason Foundation property to the south of Station 3. So

with that I'll turn the floor over to Mr. McNetti for his presentation on the study and the process to date. Mark, yours.

Mark MinettiFamiliar faces and I see some new faces so some of this may be recap and then first time you're hearing this. So the purpose of meeting with you today is to review the process to date with City Council and to review the project, give you a project progress update to the due diligence process that culminated in the acquisition of the adjacent parcel for the purpose of delivering the Fairfax City Fire Station number three facility, to talk about next steps with respect to the program validation and concept design, and to gather further feedback from the City Council. So just in recap, we divided the process up into several different scopes. Okay, so scope A was the functional assessment of the existing

facility. So we looked at your existing fire station number three from many different perspectives. We looked at it from just a systemic perspective to see what the available life cycle is for the building, how the building programmatically operates, how it supports the mission of fire and rescue. We looked at the site and utility assessment to determine whether or not the existing site would support a redevelopment. And as I mentioned, a full systematic assessment determined which systems could facilitate a renewal, a renovation, or expansion of the existing building. The outcomes of that were very definitive. The existing building fabric. Actually, you can go to the next slide. I think I have.

okay so well we'll get to that but scope b while we were assessing the existing facility we were also validating the program for the new facility so we went through and developed room criteria sheets for each space that would occur within the fire station facility and looking at best practices as fire chief mentioned that was really important to the city to make sure that the the new fire station had the latest and greatest in terms of best practices and so we developed the the needs assessment and then the next step of the process included. We then took that program and we did some test fits of the existing site. So here we're looking at the existing fire station facility. We're looking at what can we preserve of the existing fabric of the building, what made sense,

again from an operational perspective, from a best practices perspective, from the current program as we developed it, as the needs have increased and the staffing has increased and the vehicle, the needs for the different crews have increased, that all needed to be considered. So the first part of that was to look at the existing building to see if there was potential to expand, replace, to expand the building first and renovate it, but also potentially site and as I was getting ready to say related to the existing building there really wasn't potential to salvage any portion of that building to support the development of a new state-of-the-art fire station the existing building occurred on four stories it was built in additions different types of

construction the fabric of the structural fabric of the building was not was not conducive to expanding or renovating in place so the option of reusing the existing facility and expanding and replacing was determined to not be in the city's interest. So then we were looking at test fitting a replacement facility, but on the current site. So the current site, as you know, is a very narrow parcel. Typical state-of-the-art fire stations, we like to have drive-through bays. In this case, the program was set for five drive-through different out-of-the-box options for how we might be able to facilitate the delivery of a new fire station on the existing site. One of the things that needs to be understood is if we are building on the existing site that

necessitates a temporary site or relocation of facilities to portions of the facilities to the existing fire station 3. So there's added cost when you do that. so we did do our due diligence to figure out if there was viable ways that we could replace the building on the current site and while there were options they weren't great and that led us to come back to the City Council and seek seek kind of a thumbs up to begin to look for new site candidates for for relocating the facility. And so that takes us to the next scope. So scope D, finding the new site. We looked at different characteristics, GIS data, call data from the fire department, and we developed a criteria for selecting the sites

and scoring the sites. And we looked at, I can't remember how many candidates we looked at here, it looks like there's nine of them. We may have looked at more, but they didn't fall, they fell out of the survey. MAP THEM AND WE SCORED EACH ONE OF THE CANDIDATES RELATED TO THE CRITERIA AND THE LOCATIONS THAT WERE HIGHEST WE EVALUATED AND DID TEST FITS ON THOSE SITES. THAT INCLUDED ULTIMATELY THE SITE THAT WAS OCCUPIED BY THE GEORGE MASON FOUNDATION. SO THE NEXT STEP, AGAIN THIS GOES A LITTLE BIT DEEPER INTO THE LOCATION AND RESPONSE So obviously your existing fire station 3 is where it is your existing fire station 33 is where it is Your response times are predicated by that So any movement is going to change the dynamic for response right and your city has kind of a I guess really an east-west and north-south

Access in terms of the way the traffic patterns work And so ultimately what we were finding was it was it was favored to be closer to fire station 3 in order to respond to the city ultimately what that was leading us to was either the parcel to the right or to the left of the existing fire station okay and as part of that due diligence process we did as I mentioned test fits on every one of the site candidates that we felt were were were substantial and valid to go through that process this is the the one that we did for the George Mason property to validate that that site would actually function and support the delivery of a new fire station. So the next step of that process was then to acquire the site which the city I

think we went on a little bit of a pause during that time while the city worked reached out to actually I think they were looking at both parcels and ultimately the George Mason University parcel became available it was acquired I may have my dates incorrect, but there was a due diligence process in 2024. We conducted a site survey and also a phase one environmental site assessment of the site to capture data to make sure that we're mitigating risk on the city's behalf. Once that due diligence process was completed and the site okayed for purchase, the city procured it. again this is scope B the due diligence process this is the site survey that we delivered and I think the next next slide is the phase one survey that we

did so the next step scope F was then to go into this the concept design for the facility and that's where we currently are right now we've been meeting with the fire department and with the public works group for the city through a series of workshops to develop the site plan the building floor plan and then the concept building elevations and so we just completed see workshop four and we had a great session and we have three different building concepts that we will be coming back to the City Council to present to you we couldn't get it in the docket in time for this meeting but we'll be coming back to you for that so you can see the schedule right now where we're in scope F. And so we're looking to complete that here in June.

John O'NeillstaffThank you, Mark. So as far as next steps go, we would like to complete the preliminary concept designs, update the project cost estimates, and start the discussion processes with the BAR and Planning Commission on Design Elements, and of course meet with other community members and groups for their feedback. so with that that concludes our formal presentation and we'll gladly take your questions and feedback that you have on the project

Catherine Readquestions from the dais questions councilmember Hardy Chandler

Stacey Hardy-Chandlervery quick curiosity question what's an Alta survey what

Mark Minettithe Alta survey that's a property type of survey I'm not quite exactly sure what's done but it has to do with titles and those okay thank you

Catherine Readdid you have a question question councilmember Hall

Stacy Hallso in the CIP we have 41 million dollars estimated for this 11.6 which was adopted in fiscal 2025 and and then 18, 18, and 5 over the next three years. Do we have any idea if that is still a reasonable figure to complete this?

John O'NeillstaffThat's what we hope to come from, away from this once we have a more definitive design concept, preliminary design concepts, to be able to update that. That was based probably on data from two years ago based on per square foot building costs from Loudon, Fairfax, and Henrico counties for similar type facilities. That's how we came up with the figures that are there, as a rough order of magnitude. I'm not sure if Mr. Summers or Saeed has any additional. Yep.

Speaker 50As Chief mentioned, that cost estimate is a rough order of magnitude cost estimate. We gathered data from similar fire stations around Loudon County the Fairfax and develop that estimate based on the space program that we had at that time. So as we move forward during the design we will further refine that cost estimate and whether it was up or down based on the space program and other factors. And one factor right now that I see the tariffs are like kind of impacting future construction and some contractors are like looking at that as a potential to increase the cost for future projects. We have not considered that yet, but we will see.

Stacy HallBased on where we are in the process then, is it reasonable that we would need $18 million in the current I'm sorry, in the fiscal year 2020. I don't know who I'm looking at because I'm not sure I'm going to ask it. But we have $18 million Do we know what we spent to date of the 11.6? And do we know, do we need all of this to come through the design phase?

John O'NeillstaffChair Greg Musil, So I may defer to Mark here in a minute as far as what timeframe he believes it would take for the schematic designs. But to date we've spent $5.7 million on property acquisition. And with BKB we've spent just a hair over $139,000 for the feasibility study in concepts where we're at to date. So we have not spent all of that 11. And chances are by the time schematic design is completed and we go out to bid, I would probably believe we would not spend that 18 million in FY26, that full 18 million. But defer perhaps to the experts.

Speaker 50So working with GAC, we have leveled the budget. So we don't want a $50 million in one year. And also, before awarding the construction contract, we should have a fully funded project. So this is in preparation for a world of construction in future years. So we have leveled the budget.

Stacy HallOkay. Fully funded means slightly different things to different people, too, though. I think we'd have to go out and issue debt in order to cover some all of this, correct?

Brian FosterstaffYeah, that's correct. So the way that CIP generally works is like they

Parham Jabarisaid was that you typically

Brian Fosterstafflevel funded, you budget and appropriate, but the cash piece would be, in this case, would be the debt service, or excuse me, would be the bonds that would be sold to fund this project. but we can't, unless council has budgeted and appropriated, we can't actually go to bid and award it. So it's always a timing issue, but you're not actually, you're basically in this process, you're granting the authority, but until we issue debt, which still has to come back to you for approval, we're not actually spending the money or spending that level of money until it's actually done. but from a process standpoint we need to show that in the CIP for you all to budget and appropriate so we so the project can continue to move forward

Stacy Hallyes I understand that thank you I just wanted to make sure that we were still thinking that these numbers were mostly accurate and if there was any sort of reason that we needed to go up or down for 2026 so to make sure that was since we're having this meeting that that was still an accurate figure so thank you

Catherine ReadAny other questions? Council Member Peterson

Speaker 38Just to follow up on that if I understand it correctly you're levelizing costs so that we can finance over term and we'll pull debt to do that and then we'll be into a regular debt service payment over some period of time is that the correct way to interpret what we're doing here?

Brian FosterstaffCan you repeat? I'm going to make sure I'm

Speaker 38following you. Can you repeat that, please? So we're taking these lumps, and we're going to put them together, and we're going to create a level, a whole lump, and we're going to create a level series of payments over a period of time through borrowing, through debt. And that period of time, I'm curious to know how many years that is. I'm also curious to know how big that annual payment will be that comes out of that, and when we will know what that level is.

Brian FosterstaffOkay, so it's a couple of different things. First, so we're talking about two different things, slightly different things. So what's in the CIP, what you're seeing in the numbers in the CIP, ultimately we're covering whatever, what we expect to be the total cost. That's not actually the debt or the amounts or schedule the debt will be issued so once we get closer to construction we we will issue debt as needed but we also combine our we aggregate our debt so for example we'll be doing school projects presumably coming up we might have other building projects or other process so we will issue debt for a multitude potentially a multitude of projects and this would just be one component of that

debt and and because it because of the multi-year nature we may issue some of you know we may issue part of the debt to get started and pay for construction and then you know two year a year or two years later we may issue the remainder of the debt because this is will be a multi-year process so the fire the fire station construction is probably 18 months or longer would be my guess so So you're potentially spanning three fiscal years, depending on when you start. And so that's why we will finance it in such a way. But to your point, yes, the payments will be level once we start paying the debt service. So we will know what those payments are. But until we know the cost, I can't answer your question specifically about what the debt service payment will be specifically on this project.

But that's generally how we don't typically do single project debt issuance. We would aggregate that for multiple projects.

Speaker 38And then in terms of what shows up in the annual fiscal year budget that is attributable to this project or any other project, is that going to be some share of or level of debt service and that shows up as the cost burden for this individual project? or is the cost burden going to be the actual invoice that comes in, recognizing that that invoice is actually going to be serviced out of a pool of debt that's been set aside for that? I mean, are we looking at an annual budget that's just a series of debt payments or are we looking at an annual budget that's the estimated very unlevel costs?

Brian FosterstaffNo. From the budget perspective, you're going to be looking at the level debt payment. That's what you're not, it's not going to go, it's not going to go up and down. And so what you'll see is you'll see there's somewhat of a delta between what's in the CIP and what you actually adopt over your, that's because you're not actually spending that money issuing that debt. But yes, what you're ultimately going to see in the budget, and then what I believe, and JC can correct me, I think the debt service is just a single line. It's not, you know, we show it as a single entry in the budget. our accounting system but from a budget perspective the debt's just a single amount

Speaker 38but as a practical matter can you share that debt out by project we can one's a 56 million dollar load we can okay

Brian Fosterstaffyeah we can do that and

Speaker 38then from a timing perspective I know we're playing with estimates now but when is it that we get a better feel for what the costs actually look like here

Speaker 50so we will update the project cost along the way in a few milestones. First, after we complete the concept design, we will provide an update and the actual bits that we received once the design is complete, that will be the real number that we can expect this project would cost. Other than that, end of concept design and along the design maybe 85% of the design, we'll provide, I mean Mark will provide another update cost estimate and we will base our we'll update you along the way. Would you like to add anything?

Mark MinettiYeah that's typically we'll do an estimate at the end of the concept phase right and that's typically what they would call a class I might get this backwards I think a class four order of magnitude it's beyond an order of magnitude you've got some and definitives because you've got a plan. It's not just a square footage number. You've got some type of architectural intent. And then at DD, when you've got your major system selected, you get into a much more broken down estimate, so it becomes much more accurate. Then in the documents phase, we typically have one estimate that is commissioned at that point too, and that one is closer to what you would get on bid day. So you typically during the design process, you're going to hold a contingency within the estimate, right? Because

there's a design contingency because we haven't finished the design. It's in process. And then that contingency is diminished as the design is developed. So you're looking at these in different milestones. And then, you know, a design development is like when we want to say that, you know, the design direction is kind of where it needs to be. We're meeting the budget goals, and we can move forward into the documents phase. So that's where we would have a course correction, right, if we saw that we're outside of where the budget goals are. It may mean looking at systemically or looking at deferred program or scope or something like that in order to meet the budget goals. And that typically needs to happen at the end of design development.

We don't want to go beyond that without, like, we're on track. And we monitor it during the documents phase as well. You know, it could be one or two different submissions that we do to get estimates in order to go through that phase. And then, you know, one of them would be pretty close to prior to bid. So probably when we submit the documents for permit, we'll do the final estimate based on that.

Speaker 38Male Speaker 1 Thank you. You beat me to the punch on the course corrections. What does the timing look like in terms of when potentially you would evaluate that need? So

Mark Minettiwe're moving pretty we've got a pretty good pace that we're going on with our workshops right now and again we're going to be coming back to you with a presentation of the design concepts and getting the city council's kind of direction on which direction you want us to proceed and then we'll develop that for our BAR presentation and community outreach. That ends the concept phase And then the design development phase can be completed in eight to ten weeks typically. We're going to be at that point looking at major system selections. This building will have a goal of sustainability, and the city is determining what that goal is going to be. There are state requirements for sustainability as well.

So there's minimum requirements for these types of facilities. And so, you know, we've talked about that internally. we will probably have a sustainable design workshop during the concept phase to determine our sustainable goals for the project and that's going to chart the course. But for DD, we figure probably 8 to 12 weeks we can complete the DD phase and at that point the basis of design is identified. We have a cost estimate that's supporting those system selections and we'll know where we are if we need to make any course corrections.

Speaker 38Thank you.

Catherine ReadOther questions from Dias? All right. Thank you gentlemen very much. Very informative. Thank you. Ms. Clark?

ClarkclerkOur next item is a discussion and update on the Willard Sherwood development. I'll recognize Brook Harden, Community Development and Planning Director for the staff presentation.

Brooke HardenstaffGood afternoon, Mayor and Council. Pleased to be with you today to present the Willard Sherwood Health and Community Center project. With me this afternoon are other city staff, Fairfax County staff, the project architects with Grimm and Parker, and the city's project management consultant with Blue Heron Leadership Group. There will be a few presenters who I will ask to introduce themselves as they begin speaking. We will go through each of the topics listed here on the agenda slide. We'll try to be brief leave time for questions if it's possible to save those to the end. To provide context to the project's location and how we arrived at a partnership with Fairfax County, we wanted to touch a bit on what led us there.

The 2014 Parks and Recreation Strategic Plan recommended that the city study green acres. The committee was then formed and found that the existing facility was not conducive for a community center in terms of its layout and condition and identified a host of deficiencies. The committee recommended a new community center at a central location in the city that would be more accessible to all residents and served by transit. The committee considered 21 potential locations and narrowed those to six finalist sites, which the Willard Health Center site was one. The drawback at that time was that the county's feasibility study hadn't started, so future plans for the Willard site were unknown. So the city then proceeded with an alternatives analysis to evaluate three city-owned or partially city-owned sites.

All of those sites presented significant impacts to open space, tree cover, and or current operations, and none other than Van Dyke was central. Transit served with a campus layout that provided a connection to other city facilities and parkland. There was support for being Van Dyke adjacent, but there was no interest in building in the park. the county conducted its feasibility study around that time and moved up its redevelopment timeline for the Willard Center which aligned well with the city's desire to proceed joint interest in working together has now manifested itself into a number of agreements between the two jurisdictions that are summarized on this slide the city-county joint project team has

work closely together meeting weekly for a number of years Fairfax County is handling procurement for the project but city staff coordinates on scoping participates on selection committees works with the designer and and collaborates on the preparation of all documents since phase two is where we are now and that agreement covers how our relationship is proceeding into the future i'll cover that in a little bit more detail on another slide the school's facility condition assessment wasn't completed until september of 2023 so the willard project was already underway but i did want to mention just briefly that the findings from that assessment listed on these on this slide confirmed the earlier work of the green acres committee on

the condition of the building and the recommendation for a new facility. Back to a little more detail in the phase two agreement, which covers the project through completion of construction. Site and building costs are generally broken down by the pro rata share assigned to each jurisdiction according to program space. This is currently 58% county and 42% city. toward the end that will cover current cost estimates. Parking costs are assigned based on the number of spaces required for each jurisdiction's use, which is 64% county and 36% city. But I will note here that this formula applies to how the cost of parking is assigned, but the spaces themselves will be shared in use. The agreement specifies that at each stage of design, the jurisdictions will evaluate

terminating and that is what has occurred to advance the project to the current final stage of design. The agreement also covers the construction manager at risk form of construction procurement and the guaranteed maximum price for the project. Ownership and use is covered in the agreement. The city does not pay for the property and will have a 99-year lease with automatic renewals. The county retains ownership of the property, but the city will have indefinite use without acquisition costs. The agreement specifies that an additional agreement that covers ongoing operations and maintenance is to be prepared, and an administrative committee to provide building governance is to be formed. As I mentioned, we'll go in greater detail on design as well as the

program but the basics are that the existing willard health center will be demolished and replaced with a new facility connected to the existing sherwood center that includes the existing programs and services offered by the county at the site currently adding in a child care center and moving the city programs currently at green acres to the new facility this will be a green building with a lead gold certification and we are working our way as close to net zero energy feasible, meeting state requirements for new public buildings. With that, I'll turn it over to James Patterson to review the project schedule and community engagement.

James PattersonJames Patterson Thank you, Brooke. And thank you for the opportunity to present to you all. I'm helping with the project management for the city's project. I also live in the city, so I'm looking forward to hopefully working out in this building in the not too distant future. I'll touch on the project schedule and then talk a little bit about the community engagement This project started, as Brooke said, with Green Acres in 2015, but the project formally with this design, the due diligence site evaluation started in December 2021. We went through a concept design phase through 2022 and into 2023. We've been going through the design permitting and entitlement. The entitlement is in for its third review currently.

The site permit was submitted roughly a month ago. And the building plans are supposed to be submitted this Friday. So we're at the end of the design, going through the permitting. The plan is to award construction. And we're using a C-MAR construction manager at risk procurement method, which you bring the contractor, the general contractor on during, at the end of schematic design. And they work with us hand in glove to kind of build in constructability and value engineering as we go through the process. It's been a very successful partnership up to this point. They actually bid out the project to the HVAC, the plumbing, the site, the earthwork folks, and that will happen towards the end of this year, this calendar year.

And that's when we come back with a guaranteed maximum price. When the project's fully bid, we know the total price. They guarantee that price throughout. And then the construction would start the first quarter of 2026 and go through the fourth quarter of 2028. Next slide, Brooke. This slide really just shows one of the things the city council made very clear to us back in 2021-2022 is they wanted a very thorough and robust community engagement process. And what this shows is we went through each phase, the pre-design, the due diligence, to the concept, looking at different alternatives to the schematic design, design development, and now in the construction document phase, is each of those phases we met with the folks listed,

you prab commission on the arts the community and the mayor and the city council through each phase with the mayor and the city council the city council having to prove us going to the follow following phase the pre-design was in january of 2022 and what was as part of that robust engagement we met with the community we met with all these groups before the architect put pen to paper you know came out with a question of what do you want in a community center what should this design how does it fit within the context of the community so we wanted that input to inform the design throughout and then would come back to the community and all the stakeholders at each phase is hey did we meet your expectations you know what are you looking for in the next phase what's

shown on the oh I wanted to highlight just a couple numbers from our engagement the very first community meeting in january 2022 we had this was in covid so we had two virtual one in person fully masked up we had 150 people participate at the three events we did an online survey through engage fairfax we had almost 1500 hits or visitors and 465 comments that we received through engage fairfax um what this slide also shows on the right is just the stakeholders that were engaged kind of the usual folks that would be engaged in a project like this but then all the different community associations and HOAs we did we went to a senior center lunch and learn we went to the senior center committee we went to the churches that are kind of dotted around that site

went to Daniels Run Elementary Fairfax High School we went to the Layton Hall apartments so we did a lot of outreach to get a lot of good input and at the bottom of this slide which you all have is the project website you can go and engage Fairfax and kind of pull up the history and the different presentations so you can go to the county website and all of the community meetings the virtual ones were recorded so you actually can go on there and listen to to the recordings of the feedback we received. Next slide. This slide, I'm not gonna read all these comments, but this slide's just demonstrated. We got a lot of good feedback. And in general, the community's very excited about the project. They love the rooftop amenity space.

They like the site, being close to Van Dyke Park. They ask for things like making sure there's accessibility, lick a tree cover, and those are all things the design as we went forward and Antonio will present the design but they kind of love the look one thing we heard on early on is don't build an institutional looking building we want something iconic this is the one community center in the city Fairfax you know make it special especially at the corner of Blenheim and Layton Hall and with that I'll turn it over to Richali

Richali Oakthank you James I'm Richali oak with Fairfax County's Department of I'm going to give you a very quick overview of the county and city programs that we are including in this facility. I also wanted to point out that today we do have with us from the health department Dr. Gloria Ado Ayensu. She is here. She is the director of the health department. Also we have Dr. Parham Jabari and he is the deputy director for medical services. So both of them are here to answer any questions that you might have specific to the health So we've worked very closely with the health department as we develop their space needs and also understood their operational needs. And at this point where we landed is a total of about 58,000 square feet for the county

programs and that includes all of the programs and services that you see listed here. Most of them currently do exist at the Joseph Willard Health Center location and they will in the new facility as well. And again, all of these services are available to both the county and city residents. With the exception of a couple, as I mentioned, the district office of the health department is a new space that we're incorporating in this new facility. And then a couple of the clinical programs related to testing is also new, but all the others are existing at Joseph Willard Health Center. The last couple bullet points, infant toddler connection education programs are offered by the neighborhood and community services. The

infant toddler connection does exist at Willard. They have currently moved out of the space and they have moved into a temporary facility elsewhere in their locations in the county. The early childhood education is a new program that we will be bringing to this facility based on the needs that were identified by NCS in this area. So that's a new program approximately approximately about 15,000 square feet. I'd also like to point out that there's a temporary facility for the health department to move into. That's currently in the works. Lease is already in place, and improvements are currently proceeding, and the health department will be moving out of the existing Willard Center by October of 2025.

So moving on to the next slide. With regards to the city programs, and we have Stacy Summerfield, I'm sure you all know her, Director of Parks and Recreation with the city. Again, we've worked with her and her group intensely in terms of developing their program needs and operational efficiencies that they would like to bring about in this facility, as well as continuing to maintain that connection to the existing Sherwood Center and also identifying any adjacencies that make sense based on the compatibility of the uses. landed on about 50 45,000 square feet total for city programs and that include all of the ones that have been included on the slide again includes the senior center that will also have associated outdoor recreational areas

classrooms and preschool youth program related areas and spaces for camps and such activities then also a new gymnasium with a track on the upper level center with equipment, classrooms for fitness classes, as well as administrative offices. So we do recognize that there are a variety of programs clearly in this facility that will be used by patrons of different age groups and all with differing needs. So recognizing that we have tried to design the building in a manner that will allow separation of fuses, but will also incorporate certain control points as well as security elements help make this facility safe and secure for all users. So that's our goal and then I know that our design team will be going into some more specifics of that

in some of the upcoming slides. So with that I'll hand it over to Antonio from Grimm and Parker Architects and he can go over where the design started and where we are today. Thank you.

Antonio RibelloHi, everyone. Good afternoon. Do I have the click?

Anthony AmosThank you.

Antonio RibelloAll right. And so I'm Antonio Ribello with Glenn Parker Architects, the lead designer for the project. With me is Rick Morrison, senior project manager for the company and the project manager for this project as well. You've heard how exciting this building is with so many programs. We had the fortune to design it and put it all together. And oh, boy, it's quite interesting because that site, it's kind of compact for so many things that need to go on that site. So I just have two slides showing a little bit of the process that got us where we are right now. We looked at many options to fit all this program in there. So there's a lot of competition for the first floor. elements like the health center that need to be right at the first floor to have its own entrance,

the child programs that need to be right on the first floor, the gym wants to be on the first floor, everybody wants to be on the first floor. So we had to look at how can we put this together. And last but not least, we have to park over 200 cars on that site. And we're like, oof, 200 cars really leads the charge in how volumetrically we're going to look at the site. And so we looked at options where we, option one, we said we're going to bury the parking under the building and put the building right on top of it. Option two and option three were options where we were building parking garages around the building and kind of pushing all the program and stacking it where it becomes so high. Option one became the preferred option because it really was the most sensible way to use that site to its best advantage

and reduce things like the heat island effect and other things and maximize how we could do the site. So we did volumetric studies of what those options could be on that site, one came ahead because it really gave us a building that looked like a two-story building, a friendly building, rather than a ginormous building with a four- or five-story parking garage around it. So that was the option that was selected. And so as we moved forward, the design, one desire was to incorporate civic presence on on Blenheim and also have another entrance for vehicular traffic coming in. So we have a pedestrian entrance that is connected to a multimodal transportation hub that the city is developing right at the intersection of Blenheim and Layton Hall.

And then we have the other entrance that faces the Jergensen Lab on that site. If you know the site, there is a great difference there. the existing Sherwood Center is a little higher than that site so we took that to our advantage and we designed a building that connects on the second level directly onto the Sherwood Center so going through the floor plans very quickly the parking garage occupies the full footprint of that site we maximize that we park about 235 cars in these two levels you come in from the back in the ramp and you park and then there's centrally located elevators that brings folks up and also there's a convenience there at a corner that for folks that want to go one level up they

can go they can do as well the the plan was designed with the idea of being simple to understand that you would need a map to go into a building a building that has a lot of uses so So one thing that we did was we created a spine, a main spine in that building that connects the two main entrances, and by which all the program was associated to that spine on both levels. And so there's a pedestrian entrance that is connected to a stair and is connected to a ramp for accessibility for folks with disabilities. And on the other side, it's at grade. There is also the main entrance. And then attached to that spine, there is a secondary corridor that is also replicated on the second floor that goes north-south and connects to the Sherwood Center.

On this first floor, the health department. So the health department is such a large program that we put it in two levels. And we divided it according to the functions of the health department. So on the first level here, we are providing where that arrow is that says health department. There's a door that directly goes from the outside to the health department. One does not even need to go through the building if one doesn't want to. So it goes right there. There's a reception desk and then the other functions like the nursing stations and all those things are right there at that level. On the opposite side of the corridor in pink is a child, it's a childhood program that kind of hugs a playground.

And on a very prominent site along Blanham, we put the gymnasium and right behind it the city childcare with the four classrooms for after daycare and with its own playground as well. We also provide stairs, beautiful stairs, to encourage healthy habits of going up for people who are able to. But, of course, the elevators are located centrally that can take folks up as well. So as we go up to the second level, again, the same idea of the circulation going east, west, and north, south. And we have the second floor of the health department with another welcoming desk for the functions that are exclusively offered second level and then you have the infant-toddler connection and right adjacent to it the

administration area for the parks and recreation and then right along Blanham the most spectacular area of the building are the city's fitness center, exercise room and the walking track so it's really a building that kind of talks to the community as one would walk or drive by or ride a bike and see this building and see all the activity it's right there of course like I said this level connects back to the existing building the Sherwood Center on the third level of the building there is the senior center and and in essence if you come from the Sherwood side it's going to feel like you only going up one level not two because it's it's in the middle floor. The senior center has its own outdoor roof terrace, a wonderful amenity there, and it also

has multi-purpose classrooms. There's a stair also offered to come up here, but one can also take elevators and land right in front of the door of the senior center without having to walk anywhere. So just very quickly here, the existing Sherwood Center is also going through a refresh and the renovation and a small addition. We're renovating some of the rooms. We are opening a corridor to connect to that connector bridge. We're adding a small addition for changing rooms and storage. and we're moving the front desk to face the door, because currently if you know that center, you come in, kind of the front desk is stuck to the side and doesn't work so well. And the multipurpose room that's there now

is going to be renovated for the performance arts. Now I'm gonna take you quickly on the exterior. So this is a building that is designed with its context. In the city of Fairfax we we want the building to be not too big so it reads like a two-story building. We want the building to have red brick to talk to the red the other red brick buildings of the city. It is a building of its time it's a contemporary building but it's smooth it's it's soft it's calm it's not a it's not a but yet it we also introduced elements that not only work for solar shading and all that but also give a little bit of excitement to the building making it into not a stuffy government building but rather a civic building that

everybody can be proud of. This is an aerial view that kind of better shows the solar arrays on that roof. We estimate that at least 50% of the energy can be reduced on this building by using all arrays there you see the the roof terrace for the seniors you see how we manage the grading going down to that intersection where the the transportation hub which is not part of our project but we're working with the city to kind of mold it together so it's seamless which is you know buses bicycles and walking trail and the whole thing at the corner and we're softening those retaining walls with planters and plantings and all of those things there. This view just shows how interesting you could walk all the way from the park on the right

through the existing Sherwood building, right through it, right through that bridge and into the new building. It's all connected. It's all one big facility. As you go on Layton Hall, because it's a long facade, it's a big building, one of our things that we wanted to do was to reduce the massing of that building. So we did that by breaking down the volumes, as you see, and by using different color and different material like that wood-looking panel that you see there to accent some areas. So now let's take a quick visual tour inside the building. If you come in from the Jurgensen side of the building, You agree to buy this double height space. And the first thing you see is a little bit of tone and color.

That's not there just for aesthetics. That's also for wayfinding. We are making sure that each department has its own color so that you will remember that, oh, the child care would be the yellow area or the health department will be the blue and the exercise will be the teal and so forth. As we move in from the other side, we're also celebrating the history of the city of Fairfax with a mural as you come in and as you see the welcome desk. The info desk is strategically located on the main artery of the corridor at the intersection of that other secondary corridor for great visibility to all entrances and all places of the building. The gymnasium is a good example of a space that is purpose designed for its purpose.

It's a state-of-the-art facility. It will have four pickleball courts. It's going to have a walking track. This is not even in the same planet as the current facility at Green Acres, which they're using an old cafeteria of a school. So this has been really welcomed by everyone. And then there's state-of-the-art exercise rooms like this one here with all the modern equipment. And at the best location, the best real estate part of this building, there's going to be the fitness area where you can exercise, and there's views from that to the intersection below. The roof is going to have a multipurpose deck for the senior center to use. here is illustrated bocce courts but those things are in flux. This is just

to prove that we can fit those bocce courts there but they can use other things there too. And the senior center itself it's an inviting, welcoming, warm place that has a kitchen and is designed with different little spaces for seniors to use and do what they do in a daily basis. The connecting bridge accentuates how much we looked into natural light coming into this building. And another aspect of the building is a request from the community to celebrate art and to exhibit art, public art. And so we created a bunch of spaces along the walls, purposely designed to welcome art. of all types, including other niches for sculpture and other media. That's not just paintings. So with that, these are some views of some of the other programs.

They might be run by the county, but that doesn't matter if you're a citizen of Fairfax. You're going to be using these things. This is the first floor of the health department, the second floor of the childhood program, infant-toddler connection. So now just to wrap up, this is the new lobby area for the Sherwood. We moved the welcome desk and a view to the renovated multipurpose room with acoustic panels for performance arts. So thank you.

James PattersonThank you, Antonio. Sure.

Doug Coxpublic commentIf you go through the dollars and

James Pattersoncents, if you look at the spreadsheet to the right, the base building, the total cost, estimated cost is $129,650. And that's $1,129,650,000. And those costs are split, as Brooke talked about earlier, it's $5842 between the city and the county. And that's based on square footage, a pro rata share. is 51 million 930 then the next row down is additional commitment so when Antonio was talking about the different alternatives alternative one two and three alternative one was the underground parking that everybody liked alternatives two and three actually worked for the county the city very much wanted to do alternative one so an additional commitment was agreed to between the city and the county that the city would contribute three million dollars to go forward with

alternative one then you drop down to total base building cost is fifty four nine thirty fifty four million nine hundred and thirty thousand and I'm gonna drop down to the lower and then I'll come back to the performing arts but if you look at the current what's in the county CIP going down the columns is Brian was talking about different years you committed different levels of CIP funding so the total funding proposed is fixed 56 million dollars that we are within the fiscal year 26 is before you all now the 9 million 25,000 is proposed that the City Council will act on this year going back up to the spreadsheet the performing arts is an alternative so that was designed and it's designed so it can

be plugged in or plugged out of the building and when antonio was going through that slide there's a piece of that renovation that will happen to the sherwood center that's base building so the corridor that connects the bridge that connects the buildings the renovation to the front desk that's all part of base building costs that is part of that 54 9 30. the all is the renovation to the performing arts. So doing some improvements to improve the lighting, the acoustical, replacing the ceiling from concave to convex, so it's more conducive for performances, creating a sound room and a light room and creating the dressing rooms and the prop storage is part of that $4 million. At each phase as we've gone through the process,

the city is asked to act on one, do you approve moving forward with a project, and two do you want to move forward or not move forward with the performing arts options and brooke will talk about this in the final slide in terms of when that option will come back before the uh the city council and the next slide so this slide gets into the operating budget so the previous slide is looking at capital budget this is look at operating and you see at the top of the spreadsheet and this is broken into the green is the willard sherwood health and community center and then the reddish color is a performing arts option just to separate the cost out since that is an alternative so at the very top is a 54 930

capital cost and then everything below that is the operating costs so the first number is that fixtures furniture and equipment and the best way to explain that is if you turn a building upside down and shake it it's everything that falls out of the building it's furniture it's equipment it's gym equipment those kind of things and that's estimated at one point I need better glasses one point whatever then the capital repairs the capital repairs security custodial and utilities are based upon building owners and managers association benchmarks for those costs so it's based on either a percentage of total value or square footage cost so those as you run down for the annual maintenance which would start in fiscal year 29 would be a partial year when the building opens is

823 or 824 thousand dollars the security 75,000 and that doesn't include physical security the physical security cameras intrusion alerts panic buttons those are all part of base building but the operating cost of having a security guard or paying for those operations is at 75,000 the coast custodial costs foot 105 000 utilities 84 000 and all those costs are split the same pro out of share 58 42 so the total operating cost is 2.7 a little more than 2.7 million and then stacy's going to talk in a minute about some of the staff i will note as we're looking at staff you're looking at park and rec staff and we still have to determine who's going to maintain the building either the county can maintain it or the city can maintain it or you contract the whole thing out so we have the

overall cost for maintenance if the city maintains it it would also fund within that 1.6 million three positions that would be on site to address urgent calls take care of preventive maintenance types of activities and the performing arts same kind of analysis four million dollars base building 300k maintenance 120,000 60,000 for capital repairs I will note the capital repairs those costs don't start till the buildings about five years in operation security is included in the number above custodial and utilities for a total operating cost of close to 200,000 and with that I'm going to turn it over to Stacy I'll talk about some of the other operating costs

Stacy SummerfieldstaffThank you, James. So looking at the operating costs for the building, just comparing it to Green Acres, now it's a significant expansion in services from our Green Acres facility, but in this proposal, Green Acres would close when the senior center and that programming moved over to the Willard Sherwood. So currently, Green Acres, we have 62 operating hours per week. Our staffing over there is $567,500 a year. That includes our senior center staffing, a percentage of our operations staffing, and our front desk staff. Now, those 62 hours don't include rental hours, so we sometimes go over that 62 for rental, and that is covered by temp staffing. At the Willard Sherwood, we are looking at a potential 96 operating hours per week, so a significant expansion,

especially with a fitness center to open early, close late, different events with the gym as well. The staffing, now the 2.1 million number that you've seen, that is 100% staffing. And so if we are using the building 100% of those 96 hours and we're using all floors, that is that 2.1 million. So we did also generate a potential 1.2 million number, which would be at 60% capacity. So if we were to close different floors at certain times, like say we finish on the third floor, the senior center's closed, we close that floor off for the evening. We're also looking at different options of utilizing AI enabled security cameras, automatic door locks and different other measures which will help us keep an eye on this large facility.

And so there is a range there of potential staffing. Now that number is on top of our current staffing. It is in addition to the staffing that we already have now. It does include a full time opening and closing manager and a mix of about 30 part time benefited customer service reps to run the facility we are also looking at revenue potential so when we look at fy 24 our revenue rental revenue for green acres was 73 721 dollars primarily rentals that does not include our program revenue for the senior center and that is because most of that revenue is cost recovery so we are for like things like senior trips and things like that we're just to cover the cost of those programs. When you look at that number, it does appear as though we're bringing in about half a million dollars in senior programming,

but a lot of that is going out as well with the programming. Over at the Willard Sherwood, we see the biggest revenue driver potentials as different memberships that we would offer, the senior center, the fitness center, program revenue for fitness classes, youth programs, adult and senior programs, different programming that we have in the gym, as well as some rental revenue. Now we do have a lot of interest in the gym, so that would be around the city programming. The third floor classrooms, because once the senior center programming ends for the day, those classrooms would open up for rentals. And then the third floor patio, which is weather dependent. So a conservative annual revenue number we're looking at is around $600,000.

Brooke HardenstaffOkay. Okay and to wrap up, next steps for City Council's consideration are approval of the proposed FY26 capital improvement program. This will be the final allocation for this project. Moving forward into this summer and this fall will be a work session and a public hearing on the land use applications that have been filed and that would be typical to what the council is used to seeing with any type of land use application there be a staff planner that has reviewed the project and talk about traffic and site design and impacts and all of those sorts of things with a public hearing following thereafter as was mentioned earlier the project is proceeding under the construction manager at risk approach and so as part of finalization of the budget

and costs as well as the construction documents a guaranteed maximum price would be presented for council's consideration along with those final construction documents at that time if there were any adjustments that needed to be made to the development agreement related to schedule or potential amendments forward at that time. That's it for us. Happy to answer any questions.

Catherine ReadAll right. Questions from the dais? Councilmember Amos.

Anthony AmosThank you all. So a few questions. One, in terms of if we wanted to look at, for example, undergrounding parking can be extremely expensive. We have some high recurring costs coming. Is that set ground parking instead?

James PattersonNot at this site.

Anthony AmosOkay.

James PattersonAbove ground parking in 240 some spaces, you take that two and a half acres. And you can look at the footprint. We almost filled the footprint of that site. So you can double

Patrick Walkerpublic commentthe footprint.

James PattersonI'm sorry. You can double the footprint and try to spread it out. There's just a much like park. There's no room for parking, surface

Anthony Amosparking at that site. Second question. since this is poised for construction to start in 2026, this is an election site location. Do we have a backup plan for where that would be relocated?

Stacy SummerfieldstaffWe have been working with the elections office to talk to them about, we have a larger number of election sites in the city than required, so we are talking about that, and it is on the horizon.

Anthony AmosOkay, and last question. So I love the design of this project, I am extremely concerned about the recurring costs. In terms of advertising opportunities or event programming, what options do we have on the table to make up that difference? Because $600K versus $4.7 to $5 million annually doesn't add up.

Stacy SummerfieldstaffI think we could definitely look. We are continuing to look at different ways to potentially, in small ways, lock some of COSTS. I THINK WE COULD CERTAINLY PARTNER WITH THE POTENTIAL FUTURE PARKS FOUNDATION TO LOOK AT DIFFERENT OPTIONS THERE, BUT I DON'T HAVE ANY CONCRETE NUMBERS.

Catherine ReadOTHER QUESTIONS? COUNCIL MEMBER MCQUILLEN.

Rachel McQuillenTHANK YOU, MAYOR REED. ON THE PROJECT CONTEXT, THIS IS A QUESTION I HAVE REGARDING THE, IT MIGHT JUST BE THE WAY IT'S WRITTEN, BUT IT SAYS THE PARTNERSHIP, THE CITY analysis 2016 2017 partnership with County at existing Willard Health Center property noted as option to consider if feasible can you explain that a little bit more

Brooke Hardenstaffsure so as part of that study there were three sites that were that were evaluated one being the existing Sherwood site and Van Dyke Park as part of that analysis the consultants suggested that an alternative to trying completely on city property would be to look at a potential partnership with the county at the Willard site part of that was based upon as councilmember Amos had the question a moment ago was so much of the parking to serve that design was going to end up being in Van Dyke Park even with some structured parking in that concept was just very impactful. And so the consultants have said, an alternative may be to pursue what we've since pursued as a city.

Rachel McQuillenOkay, thank you for providing some background on that. Sure. And then going into the school's facility condition assessment recommended for green acres, it says here more appropriate to build replacement. Replacement is less expensive than renovation or maintenance. so that is essentially where we would be moving everyone out doing what we're doing now but with the Willard Health Center right is that correct my understanding okay and then sorry I started to write on here instead of to the side could you explain it says here on the stakeholder and community engagement this engagement involved a feedback or did was pricing was pricing ever discussed in the community feedback stuff regarding you know the senior fees and um the services

offered in the building um

James Pattersonthe most recent when we presented when we presented to the the mayor and city council uh one of the things that was important is that we disclosed all the cost so the most recent outreach which was november of 2024 included operating costs the earlier the earlier engagements i tell you truth i don't remember i don't think it did

Rachel McQuillenokay and and what was the primary feedback that or what did you hear from that

James Pattersonthat they liked the rooftop terrace and they wanted to make sure the building was accessible and they put they put art into the here in presenting the cost information, we didn't get a lot of feedback on the cost.

Rachel McQuillenActually,

James PattersonI don't think we got any.

Rachel McQuillenThey wanted it to stay free? Is that what you just said?

James PattersonSome of the seniors have attended in terms of, you know, what Stacy's talking about in terms of membership fee, because they kind of like the current structure. Yes, sure.

Rachel McQuillenOkay. And then question regarding under the stakeholder community feedback stuff, again, the November the date that you just mentioned, there was concern about the availability of fitness equipment. Could you explain a little bit more about that?

James PattersonDo you want to take that one?

Stacy SummerfieldstaffSure. Was this the question regarding just the fitness equipment in the fitness center?

Catherine ReadI actually remember that discussion on the 24th. And what it was is that city residents were concerned about county residents taking up the equipment. and their concern was what can we do to make sure city residents have first access to the equipment so it's not county residents there. I remember that discussion clearly.

Stacy SummerfieldstaffI was getting it confused with a long discussion about the type of rowing machine we might want.

Rachel McQuillenOkay, yeah, I know there's been a lot of back and forth. Thank you for explaining that. And then the health center, other county programs and operations, how many city residents do we are currently served at the health center and I apologize if we've asked that and been received that information before but

Parham Jabarigood afternoon again Mary council members I'm Dr. Jabari with the health department so looking at our last full fiscal year was about 5,000 unduplicated patients we were up to around seven to eight before the pandemic and have had a little bit of a drop-off as we've been able to establish partnerships with our federally qualified health centers find individuals medical homes and try to deliver our services more efficiently in addition to clients we also have a vital records office there which is where we provide death certificates marriage certificates and so forth and so roughly we get about 20,000 of those a year that's a very active site for the entire county and city that will also be moved to another

you know temporary location while the Willard is being built.

Rachel McQuillenOkay and does so the 5,000 do you know how many of our city residents currently go to that health center?

Parham JabariI haven't looked at it as a breakup of whether they're a county or city so I wouldn't be able to answer that today. Okay. We are open generally to everyone so it could be you know depending on the services or need if someone look is looking let's say for an exam that might require a physician such as an STI visit and if it's not offered at City of Fairfax we may point them towards Annandale Herndon so we really look at all five as available resources to everyone in the county in the city and there's a good bit of crossover so I wouldn't be surprised if we see some of that in our Springfield office or Annandale where city residents are going there because the appointment is available that day

Rachel McQuillenthat makes sense I was thinking from a standpoint of that our city residents live closer and have a free Q bus to use to get to and from. So I was kind of thinking in that generalization. For the community center programs and operations, I know that the county is able to add an early child education class to their part of the building. Are we adding any new programs to ours?

Stacy SummerfieldstaffSo our little school, the preschool program, which we operate out of Sherwood would move into that space, into one of those four classrooms. the remaining four classrooms for our Daniels run before and after school program allowing an expansion of kids to participate in that and then also different youth programming throughout the day we do a lot of preschool music programs and things like that during the school day lots of different youth programs in the summer and then some of our summer camps would also be able to use that space okay so programs

Rachel McQuillenthat we currently have but we're kind of using in other places right now. So we bring them into this building under one roof. And also be able to

Stacy Summerfieldstaffexpand it.

James PattersonYou want to mention that the county is going to contract out there.

Stacy SummerfieldstaffYes, and the county space will be contracted out, and I know that Main Street, who is currently with us at Green Acres, will be going out for that contract.

Jennifer Rosepublic commentOkay. Let's see. Sorry.

Rachel McQuillenIs this building designed for a potential future? expansion or renovation yeah sorry I know I'm just going through my pages now

Antonio Ribelloto to my to my understanding no it is not designed for future expansion

Patrick Walkerpublic commentwe had to

James Pattersongo down another level of parking so we maxed out what we could get within the So it'd be hard to fit anything else on this site unless you're in Van Dyke.

Rachel McQuillenExcellent. Thank you. This is also a design question. I see that we have the two playgrounds. This is just a, I was just curious. Why are these separate? Why wouldn't you

Stacy Summerfieldstaffcombine them? Oh, I

Antonio Ribellocan

Stacy Summerfieldstaffanswer that one. So the one is attached to the county's child care space. So there's no going out into the facility. You're at a direct, those rooms are direct connection to their playground. And then the same with the city site. So all of our classrooms have a direct connection in a secured fenced area to go out to the playground and come back in.

Rachel McQuillenOkay, so there was no way to design that where they could share some playground space or make this playground space larger and more open by sharing?

Antonio RibelloIt was not a design issue. We could have at the time done that, but there was a preference for that problematic separation. I

Richali Oakwanted to point out here that the county child care has its own requirements, licensing requirements, so the

Stacy Hallplaygrounds have to be separate for county and city.

Rachel McQuillenThat makes sense. Thank you for explaining that. How many elevators will this building have?

Antonio RibelloThree.

Rachel McQuillenThree? Three. And where are they? Are they just all central in that one spot?

Antonio RibelloNo, so there are two right in the middle, and there's one at the northeast corner of the building that serves all the way to also for loading if need be. But it will be a passenger elevator.

Rachel McQuillenOkay, excellent. And then do I understand the design correctly that if they're entering Sherwood Center from the back, there's no desk or greeter right there? They'd have to go closer to the front of the building. Is that correct? We

Stacy Summerfieldstaffhave added a control desk there. So, Brooke, if you go to the next floor, sorry, you'll see the small L-shaped rectangle in the upper left corner of the track there is a control desk.

Antonio RibelloRight here.

Stacy SummerfieldstaffYes. Thank you.

Antonio RibelloSo you come in, it's right there on the left.

Rachel McQuillenThank you. I think that might be it. Sorry. Yeah. That's all the questions I have. Thank you so much.

Antonio RibelloThank you.

Catherine ReadCouncil Member Hardy-Chandler.

Stacey Hardy-ChandlerWell, I definitely appreciate programming being in one space. We know this adds to the health of a community, and I really appreciate this model in us sort of taking the lead here. I'm curious if there are, in collaboration with the county, other ways to diversify the revenue. You said the projected annual revenue conservatively would be $600,000. thoughts about how that might be expanded? What might be other ways that other than fees, other than fees, let me be specific, other than fees to seniors especially, are there other more creative ways to expand or diversify revenue for this facility?

Stacy SummerfieldstaffYeah, there is certainly things we can look at and we can come back with an expanded revenue plan for some potential ideas I mean a lot of this current revenue model all of it actually is fees for program use membership fees and that's why just

Stacey Hardy-Chandlernot seniors

Stacy Summerfieldstaffyeah

Stacey Hardy-Chandlerare there other things that the county has considered in other places or in other locations that have generated different forms of revenue

Stacy Summerfieldstaffwe have we we did base our membership fees and that on county facilities as far as what other facilities in the area are charging. And we can certainly look to see if there's other creative revenue streams that they've found. We also, no one wants to pay more fees, but we do a lot of free, we have a free agreement with our community partner youth sports organizations, so we don't charge any of those hours. So there is, we do have a lot of free, we give a lot of space away.

Stacey Hardy-ChandlerAnd just to follow up from that, you talked about some of the staffing costs being potentially reduced if some of the floors are closed down during certain parts of the day. Does the programming model align with that?

Stacy SummerfieldstaffYes. So the conservative revenue would be, of course, not programming every single space every hour So looking at that 96 hours and thinking, well, certainly the fitness center has to be open, and ideally we're maximizing the fitness classroom, but maybe the third floor doesn't open as early. If we're going to be open late at night for gym programming, maybe just the first two floors of the building are open. We've also looked at different ways to lock and unlock the stairwell doors to ensure that they're fire egress, but people are not able to kind of move throughout the building without being seen by our control desk.

Stacey Hardy-ChandlerSo that was considered in the location of the various programs?

Stacy SummerfieldstaffYep.

Stacey Hardy-ChandlerOkay. Thank you.

Catherine ReadCouncil Member Hall.

Stacy HallThank you. I do have a number of questions. I'll try to direct them to the same people at the same time. So looking at this versus Sherwood, what exactly is different? We're going to have the same preschool. It's still going to be, and I'm working from the city side, not from the county side. we're still going to have the preschool we're still going to have the senior center we're going to have the daniel's on before and after school care which we currently have at sherwood now it'll just be in one building

Stacy Summerfieldstaffyes it will give us more room to expand that program too we're currently sold out for after school the before and after and we do have some as of as of last week we had and before school spaces.

Stacy HallSo how many extra students, kids, are we talking roughly?

Stacy SummerfieldstaffI can get you that number and have Katie look at both classroom spaces to see. Right now we only have one classroom space, so we would be looking at having potentially, we would have two, potentially three.

Stacy HallOkay. And sorry to interrupt, but the $600,000 of projected annual revenue, does that include only adding new students or is that including what we're already getting from the programming that exists with the before and after school care and stuff or is this totally new revenue?

Stacy SummerfieldstaffThat it would be new revenue.

Stacy HallOkay. And of that $600,000, does that include roughly $95,000 that had been discussed for senior fees?

Stacy SummerfieldstaffYes. So that includes a senior fee, fitness center membership fee programming and then rental revenue okay

Stacy Hallso if we took out the we'll call it a hundred thousand eight numbers even because I know that was been a topic of conversations now we're looking at projected annual revenue maybe a five hundred thousand instead yep okay okay and so what else is new the

Stacy Summerfieldstaffgym space it's an expanded fitness center so a fitness center does exist at Green Acres, but it's very small. It's really only utilized by our seniors so this would be an expanded fitness center and the fitness classroom would be much improved from what exists at Green Acres. And how? Being able to the additional people. The estimated capacity of the fitness classroom is 20 people. Okay. So 20 people for a class? Class,

Stacy Hallyep, per class. Okay. And this would piggyback to the classes that are already being offered at Sherwood that would move over from there to here, plus the potential to add another class or classes. Yep. Okay. And what sort of square footage are we talking for the fitness area, like the gym part? Sorry, not the gym, the exercise equipment.

Stacy SummerfieldstaffYes. Is Toulouse at home? Thank you.

Stacy HallSo $2,000 for the fitness center.

Antonio RibelloYeah, it's $2,000 for the fitness center.

Stacy HallAnd then $1,000 you said for the classroom.

Antonio RibelloFor the classroom.

Stacy HallOkay. Do we have any idea like what Oak Mar? I'm just trying to visualize what $2,000 is in my head compared to another location.

Stacy SummerfieldstaffI do not know what Oak Mar is, but I can certainly find out.

Stacy HallI'll ask another question in the meantime. Who would you say this building serves specifically? Again, city-side only. I'm hearing seniors,

Stacy Summerfieldstaffchild care. Youth and adults, yeah. So I think we would hit all kind of three big chunks because we've got youth programming on the first floor with the classroom space, of course the gym as well, senior center, the expansion of our current pickleball program over at Green Acres, the most popular things we have indoors right now, and then looking at having open gym in the evening for adults and families and different gym programs, the track as well, and then the fitness center.

Stacy HallOkay, and we currently have two indoor pickleball courts at Green Acres?

Stacy SummerfieldstaffThere are three total because there's two in the gym and one in the cafeteria. The gym, if it rains really hard, is unavailable, so we're down to one.

Stacy HallOkay, so we'd be going on a good day when it doesn't rain or monsoon. We have three and we're going to four.

Stacy SummerfieldstaffYep. Okay. Also with the ability to drop a curtain in the gym so that we could do like half pickleball and half youth programming in the summer when we're running summer camp.

Stacy HallOkay. And I think, sorry, I'm trying not to skip around here. The gym rental, I thought you previously said before that because of the agreement with FPYC there was going to be very limited options for community use and or rental of the gym but it sounds like what you're saying now is different than that

Stacy Summerfieldstaffno we would we'd still wouldn't be a ton of rental revenue from the gym we would we would add in available rentals around what's not utilized by FPYC and our programming okay so minimal options it's smaller I would say so when I looked at our potential revenue, the rental revenue is lower than the program revenue because we have so many spaces available to program and so much interest from the community for community programming. And then we would simply have to release rentals around that availability.

Stacy HallOkay. But looking at like an open gym on a Tuesday or a Tuesday and a Friday, those are probably minimal opportunities? That

Stacy Summerfieldstaffwould be programming because we would do a registration for the open gym.

Stacy HallI

Stacy Summerfieldstaffdid just hear from Katie. We are looking at going from 26 kids to 40 kids in the afterschool program with two classrooms.

Stacy HallAny idea what that revenue is roughly? I can certainly pull that for you. Okay. So the outdoor space for bocce that was shown on the roof, recognizing that's a flex space, once set up for bocce, though, it needs to be set up for bocce, right? Trying to pick my parents' place. Nothing else goes on there besides bocce.

Stacy SummerfieldstaffWell, we've looked at, so we've been meeting with the bocce group. We've looked at a lot of temporary bocce courts. They actually would prefer that in the redesign of Van Dyke Park, bocce be included, so that they could play there and then walk over to the senior center. They don't really love any of the temporary bocce options that are available on the market right now.

Stacy HallOkay.

Stacy SummerfieldstaffWe're looking for something that can be put down and then picked up for events. Yeah, okay. Or like covered over like the, which you go to like D.C. Yeah, they play very seriously, so they want that gravel layer. I understand. Are

Stacy Hallthe current ones at Greenacres, are they smaller than regulation size, or am I just seeing them different because they're in a bigger space compared to where my parents are?

Stacy SummerfieldstaffThey are regulation size. We host the Northern Virginia Senior Olympics. Okay. And they want a third one so we can host more people to play bachee. Okay.

Stacy HallThe seniors on the second floor would then have seniors on the third floor, correct? If they come in from Sherwood? Yep, but if they come in from the basement, they're just coming up the elevator feasibly or conceivably. The picture that you showed before about the entrance, it was a couple back, like where you can come right into the health center from that side door.

Nicholas Lawrencepublic commentYeah.

Stacy HallDoes that side door, does that just go to outside? Like that's a flat, like would you park and then come up that outside door, or that's if you arrived by bus or something like that?

Antonio RibelloSo let me show you a site

Stacy Hallplan. Yeah,

Antonio Ribellothat's a good question. So you see there is a small lay-by. There's also some surface parking spaces right outside that one can stop here, walk, and go through the door, which is right there.

Stacy HallOkay.

Antonio RibelloOutside. And you can drop someone off, let's say you Uber in or you have a family member drop you off and all that to get a medication or whatnot. They can drop you off right here and you can walk right in.

Stacy HallOkay.

Antonio Ribellooutside from from the street yeah

Stacy Hallokay but then if you go to the next slide and if you park

Antonio Ribelloright I

Stacy Hallwas having difficulty trying to figure out where the elevators are they're

Antonio Ribelloright in the middle there this this bank of two squares here those are the elevators

Stacy Hallokay so then can you go to the next level and show me where those end up in the building

Antonio Ribellosure they're right here in the middle here you come in near the desk okay and then you go from what from here or whatever you want to go.

Stacy HallOkay. Okay, thank you. Sure. And the health services that are provided, that's kind of a catch-all for anything and everything, infectious disease, birth control, medical appointments, all of the things at the county?

Antonio RibelloI'm going to let the doctors speak. Okay, thank you. Sit over there. Sure, sure.

Parham JabariSo our basic services are mostly preventive and services like WIC, Women, Infant Children, where we provide supplemental nutrition for pregnant moms, young children. We do a lot of immunizations, so they're well visits. The health department used to, generations ago, serve as a primary care site for the underserved, but that's not what we do really anymore. We have very specific programs. When it comes to things like STIs, again, those are specific visits that you set up in the room. And like every other clinic, we follow the regular infection control procedures. You know, one of the programs you hear about is tuberculosis. Oftentimes those individuals are diagnosed in the ED. They're referred to us.

They're started on therapy. And after two weeks of antibiotic therapy, they continue to see us to make sure that the long-term regimens that we provide over six months, nine months, side effects, so they're no longer infectious after those initial two weeks. Should they have to come in in those initial two weeks, we have set up in the site where you actually see the health department arrow, there's a side arrow that brings you right into the lobby. If I can use the mouse, once you go through the secure access, we have rooms here that are called negative pressure rooms, just like in the hospital system where they blow out the air. So we're equipped to take care of individuals that might have an infectious disease.

In those situations, even though I want to let you know, you may be running into these folks in the community, at the bus stop, at the grocery store.

Stacy HallIn the elevator in the building here.

Parham JabariSo you don't necessarily get, even if you're in the elevator for a few minutes, the risk of catching these sorts of illnesses is very little. But we usually give you a standard of if someone with tuberculosis came into the room, they would want an eight-hour exposure with people around us, unless someone is immun-compromised or has other situations. So minutes walking past by the types of patients we see don't pose a risk to the public or to others.

Stacy HallOkay, that's good news. Thank you. Especially with seniors and kids and just normal life.

Speaker 1So the health department has the Joseph Willard Center is one of five health centers that we operate. and the other four are in other multi-purpose used buildings. And as Dr. Jabari was saying, our clinics are really well clinics. It's not primary care where people are ill and you're not really sure what's going on. We have public health-specific clinics. STDs are not respiratory. Immunizations, these are kids getting their shots or people traveling, international travel. The WIC program, these are infants and children, supplemental, food supplemental program. And then the TB program, where we are treating individuals who have inactive illness. So when you are exposed to TB, you have what we call latent infection, and you're not sick.

A third of the world is infected with latent TB. You're not coughing. You're just doing your daily business because your immune system has taken care of it. But for some people, that immunity breaks down. Like when you are immunosuppressed, you have HIV, you want chemotherapy, those kinds of things. And then the infection can become active. That's when you start coughing and can pass it on. When you're not coughing from TB, you just can't pass it on. And when that happens, people are very sick. They've been coughing around for months, and eventually, after multiple ropertussins and whatever, they seek care because they're really sick, and they are hospitalized. And as Dr. Jabari was saying, the TB treatments are very powerful.

Within two weeks, they are no longer infectious. But because they have to take these medications months. We all know that even when we have to take antibiotics for five days, after the third day when you start feeling better, you know, some people just don't continue. Can you imagine having to take TB meds for nine months, sometimes small if you have multi-drug resistance, and you're already feeling better about after two to three weeks? So that's an opportunity for us to check on them. Besides coming to the clinic, we have nurses who go into their homes of these individuals and address their needs. We have what we call direct observed therapy. Every day, somebody watches them take their medicines so that they continue on that right path. So when they are

coming to the clinic, it's mainly for the physician to lay eyes on them and make sure that if they in the beginning that they are progressing. We do x-rays to make sure the x-ray is cleaning, is clearing up and so on. And they always come to the clinics with a mask, even though they are no longer infectious. And they just don't show up. We know when, I mean, there's a specific time where we see our TB patients and we do have N95, what do you call the rooms? Negative pressure rooms.

Stacy HallOkay. Thank you very much. I appreciate that. Just to jump around a little bit, the November 2024 meeting that was held, you mentioned that that talked about the costs and people didn't love the senior fees or the other fees. Were the actual ongoing maintenance costs and personnel, like the $4.8 million, was that discussed at length with people? Was there any feedback on that? That was presented.

James PattersonWe actually had the exact same slide.

Stacy HallAnd I

James Pattersonwent through it exactly the way I went through it today.

Stacy HallAt a community meeting or at the council meeting?

James PattersonAt a community meeting.

Stacy HallOkay. And that was attended, you said, by how many people?

James PattersonThe 150, that was the very first concept. To tell you the truth, I don't know. I think Anthony was there.

Catherine ReadI was there as well. It was in the smaller room. There was a very good crowd of people there. Okay. Yeah, and it was a very lively discussion. People asked a lot of questions.

Stacy HallOkay, thank you. And that brings us to the 4.8, and I only ask this because you made a comment about how it was split 42-58. The costs that are reflected on page 39 for the Willard Sherwood Health Center, the 2.8 and the 2.1, those are the city portions of the cost. Correct. Correct? Okay.

James PattersonSo all the utility costs, I didn't include it in the chart. the city's cost so that the split is still 58 42 for utilities custodial security but I only showed the okay

Stacy HallI think I just have one more question let me just run through the rest of my notes here and just make sure yeah so my final question is about the city's childcare portion if you can just show it on the slide for me.

Antonio RibelloYou want to see the plan or?

Stacy HallYes, the one where, just so I can get a good visual of it. So it just, it looks like the exterior one, I'm sorry. We don't have

Antonio Ribelloa view.

Stacy HallPage 22, sorry.

Antonio RibelloOh, okay.

Stacy HallSlide 22. So granted, I don't know how the sun comes and goes, but I'm just trying to visualize. It looks like the side that faces Leighton Hall open has potentially the opportunity for more Sun it looks like the city side that's kind of tucked back there behind the building we

Antonio Ribellodon't have a view but the good news is the building is not too tall can

Stacy Hallyou go to the next slide for me

Antonio Ribellothe next slide yeah

Stacy Hallthere

Antonio Ribelloyou

Stacy Hallgo

Antonio Ribelloyeah but as you can see it's in the Sun the Sun actually does does shine in that in that space because you don't have a lot of shadow the building isn't too tall it's two stories only at that level okay And when you're looking out, the sun moves in the sky around noon. It's almost vertical. And in the afternoon, so you do actually have sun.

Stacy HallOkay. I'm just worried about them in the winter if it's, like, frigid. So are we.

Stacy SummerfieldstaffWe, working with our playground supplier, we've actually talked to them about building in some shading because there's quite a bit of sun. And so we've built in some additional shading into that area over some seating and over the primary playground equipment.

Stacy HallThat's great because that is certainly easier to add shading than it is to add sun.

Stacy SummerfieldstaffYes, and it's all fabric shade, so some of that can come down in the winter, which a lot of it we do remove for snow weight and things like that. So it helps us cool it in the summer, and then also it looks like we'll have plenty of sun in the winter.

Stacy HallOkay. Oh, sorry. One thing I did just want to point out, you brought up the FCA in here, which I think is really helpful information, but I do want to point out that the purpose of the FCA was intended for school use. about an early childhood, about preschool, or about a senior center. So when the city school board paid for the FCA, it was looking at Green Acres as an educational institution, as a school. So comments, concerns slightly vary, I think, based upon the usage of the building overall.

Brooke HardenstaffCorrect. And we just looked at that in terms of the analysis on systems, roof, windows, those sorts of things that would have to be addressed, seemingly regardless of what that

Stacy Halluse is. Agree, I just wanna make sure that that conversation, that that point is out there as far as the actual purpose of it, so, okay. Thank you very much, I appreciate it.

Stacy SummerfieldstaffI have heard back from Katie, we are looking at around $100,000 gross for the additional before and after school care spaces, now that doesn't take into account program costs

Stacy Halland staffing. Okay, so then back to the, we'll call it 500 after taking out seniors, the 2.1 for staffing. So the 2.1 would increase then based upon additional students here that are enrolled? Or just to make sure we're comparing apples and apples with what's presented.

Stacy SummerfieldstaffYes. When we look at our programming revenue, we have to remove, for programs, we do remove out our staffing and program costs. And so we just look at the true net revenue. and so a lot of the employees are contract employees for classes or temp employees that we have for different programs and so those are in a different pool from the 2.1 which is just our control desk staffing. So our program revenue has to cover the cost of any staffing that we add in.

Stacy HallOkay so we're looking at then 600 potentially minus seniors which includes a new hundred thousand of gross of the additional classroom opportunities but the 2.1 number would potentially go up in order to cover the additional for those students. Did I understand that correctly? So yeah the

Stacy Summerfieldstaff2.1 we don't include any of our program staffing because we take that programming out of the cost of the the revenue of the programming so any like anytime we design a new program for example just use an easy one like an open gym the whatever we're bringing in for revenue has to cover any additional or any additional costs we're going to incur for that program. And so then our revenue is really just the remainder.

Stacy HallOkay, so the $500 or $600 of revenue is essentially the net? Yes. Okay, thank you for clarifying that. Yeah.

Catherine ReadCouncil Member Peterson.

Speaker 38Thanks. Just a financial question or two. So the construction cost, as I understand it, on the city portion of this is $55 million. Is that to be debt financed?

Josh Alexanderpublic commentYes.

Speaker 38And the annual debt service payment that we anticipate?

Brian FosterstaffWell, it depends on the rate, obviously, of when we issue the debt. have that information right yet, but we can certainly calculate an estimate.

Speaker 38Okay. But that would be added to the $5 million annually for operations.

Brian FosterstaffUntil the debt's paid off. That's correct.

Speaker 38Right. Okay. So it'd be $6 million or something like that. And that translates into just, I don't know whether this came up in the outreach session over cost but the translation back to real estate taxes is we're talking five six cents

Brian Fosterstaffcurrently one cent is 835 so right so say 1.2 per million so if 5 million would be you know about six six cents or so

Speaker 38on an annual basis correct yeah okay when the county made the decision to move forward with this project was that contingent on the city also deciding to join or was it a contingency or was it not a contingency it was just an evolution do

James Pattersonyou want to take that one Brooke or I

Brooke Hardenstaffcan I mean the the agreements that we've the the city and county have had have moved forward as a joint facility and so those agreements have been in place since the county completed its feasibility study looking at the condition of the existing Willard and made the decision that that facility needed to be replaced they were evaluating whether that could be renovated partially so on and so forth once they decided that that it needed to be replaced the city and county have been working together jointly and the

James Pattersonthe agreement anticipates that at the end of each phase both the county and the city have to there's exit ramps for both the building in reality doesn't stand one without the other so it would be a significant major redesign if either party dropped out

Speaker 38can you say that last part one more time

James Pattersonso the building as designed with two levels underground parking the the gym and the exercise facility along Blenheim if the city elected to exit which you which will be the next decision before the City Council when we get the GMP it's not like the county can then move forward with their part of the building they'll have to redesign the whole building to fit just the Willard Center. Okay. Or the Joseph, Joseph Willard Center.

Speaker 38So if I understand it correctly, back 2016, 17, something like that, there, roughly this time period, there was an identification of potential sites and some level of analysis or feasibility determination about those sites. Is that the right

Brooke Hardenstaffthat's correct

Speaker 38yeah and there were a couple different ones I think Green Acres was one of them

Brooke HardenstaffGreen Acres was not one of those because because the committee had recommended that the city not pursue Green Acres because of its location because of because of physical issues there so the three sites that were evaluated in 16 and 17 are shown on this slide City Hall Van Dyke Park in Sherwood and Providence Park in the West Drive Property Yard were the three sites that were evaluated at that point.

Speaker 38Okay. Well, part of the reason I ask is just, I think there's been an acknowledgement a couple times that we're squeezing a lot into a relatively small space here, and some of the other options may have a little bit more elbow room. How much of an issue was the elbow room issue here was it determined that it really wasn't so terribly important so it was okay to work with this very very tight footprint

Brooke Hardenstaffpreferable to the alternatives and and i don't i don't have the images they are on the city's web page and i can certainly share them with you but looking at the providence park option city hall for example trying to park a facility here basically all the the veterans amphitheater and the whole front yard would have been covered parking Providence Park there's significant amount of the existing tree canopy along West Drive that would be removed to try to handle that as well with the Van Dyke option and so what was that as part of that city feasibility was is there an opportunity to build off the front of the existing Sherwood Center again keeping everything on on city property what that did is is

encroached into the existing Van Dyke and so looking at those options there just wasn't an interest from the council at the time to pursue any of those it was much too impactful to city properties in terms of trees open space or operations or all three of those

Speaker 38and and just as a for as I understand it green acres had been taken off the table by that time so it wasn't a part of that I THINK THAT'S IT FOR THE TIME BEING. THANK YOU.

Catherine ReadANY OTHER QUESTIONS ON THIS PROJECT? COUNCIL MEMBER HALL.

Stacy HallTHE OUTDOOR SPACE, THE ROOF TOP AREA, IS THAT INCLUDED IN OUR SQUARE FOOTAGE OR IS THAT OVER AND ABOVE WHAT IS STATED IN THE NUMBERS?

James PattersonTHANKS, SQUARE FOOTAGE.

Stacy HallTHANK YOU.

Catherine ReadOKAY. WE'VE GOT TEN MINUTES UNTIL OUR REGULAR CITY COUNCIL MEETING then next to work session items will wait until the work session after we wrap up our regularly scheduled council meeting

Susan Kylerpublic commentyes

Catherine Readmr.

Brian Fosterstaffthat is absolutely fine i just wanted to point so i know that i believe there's a desire to add some trails um emotions to the regular agenda i believe we can get our trails presentation done within 10 minutes if that would be helpful so you can have that knocked out prior to your meeting. But if not, I perfectly understand. Just wanted to let you know that council might prefer that.

Catherine ReadWell, given the amount of time we've spent on the first three items, I think you're suggesting that we can do this in 10 minutes. Is optimistic?

Brian FosterstaffI think the presentation can be done in 10 minutes. I did not, if there are tons of questions that would be correct, you would go longer than that time frame.

Catherine ReadCouncil Member Hardy Chandler.

Stacey Hardy-ChandlerI would be in favor of just hearing the presentation and stopping there.

Speaker 38Yeah, I think the key thing is just that we do need to be in a position to add these motions to the agenda later.

Brian FosterstaffSo that would just be one less thing for afterwards if everyone is amenable.

Catherine ReadAll right. It seems like everyone is amenable. trails presentation

Clarkclerkdiscussion and updates on trail projects I'll recognize Wendy Sanford transportation director for the staff presentation

Wendy SanfordstaffAll right, good evening. I have a very brief presentation to go over the status of the various trails that are in the CIP currently. There are three, the Pickett Road Connector Trail, the Country Club Commons Trail, and trail. Just briefly by way of trail planning background, in the city trails historically have been planned by the Parks and Recreation Department and so all of the trails that we have in front of us today were initially part of the park strategic plan. However, they then moved from the park strategic plan into the city's comprehensive plan and the importance of the trail network and and trail connectivity is cited throughout the comprehensive plan in numerous locations. And then starting about six years ago, transportation funding was used to implement these trails,

and so there was the partnership between the Parks Department and the Transportation Department. So first to get into the Pickett Trail, what you see on the screen is shown in yellow, is the existing or planned trail network, and so you see going even into Arlington, Boulevard bike route you see the cross County Trail which picks up at Vice Park and heads east and connects to the Wilcoxon Trail so the picket trail is what's shown in red which is a missing off-road link connection between the cross County Trail and then the connector trail that runs through circle towers north to the metro station so it is a short piece of a trail this was originally as I mentioned identified through the parks department

PRAB had identified this trail as both a safety issue and an opportunity to improve connection between city and county facilities as I mentioned previously this can this completes an off-road missing link of trail currently users are forced up onto picket Road which has heavy vehicular volume including a large number of trucks and then what is shown in that left graphic volume on this road there happens to be a number of accidents this is sort of the downhill part is a very narrow sidewalk on the bridge on Pickett Road there an important piece of information to mention here is that the alignment of this project closely mirrors an alignment of the Fairfax County water main and Fairfax County has been planning a rehabilitation of their water

main in this location we have been coordinating with them from the very beginning when this project was simply an idea and as part of the two-year program we were working with Fairfax water what you can see in green is the water main alignment and then what you can see is the trail alignment with the pink sort of overlaid on that so what you see is that about half of the alignment of the project overlaps with the trail so this area is going to be disturbed either by our project or by the Fairfax water project and so this is something that has been in coordination for for some time in terms of the status we are currently at right-of-way acquisition which is simply an easement from Fairfax water most of the property is city property there's a very small

portion if I go back to this map closer to Arlington Boulevard that is actually Fairfax water property so the project itself is construction of approximately feet of trail this was funded by FY 18 smart scale funding we are mostly complete with the plans and again we are in right-of-way acquisition again an easement we have approximately six million dollars of funding we don't expect to spend anywhere near that approximately 700,000 has been spent to date in terms of the forest impact

AnnastaffI will have Anna present so like I've discussed in previous presentations when looking at forest impact and trails at both forest factors as well as site conditions and then how that interacts with the project design. So for this project it's almost fully in the resource protection area, a little less than an acre. The forest condition is fair to good. It's fair on the edge of the forest along Pickett Road and moves into a healthier condition as you get further in. There's fairly high invasives along the edge. There's utility easements along Pickett Road where the invasives have overgrown that area, but then as you move into the forest, significantly less so. 84 trees are proposed for removal, and like Wendy said, there is overlap with the water main

replacement, and so some of those would be getting removed. Of course, there would be additional trees from the water replacement project itself. The site is fairly flat in comparison to other projects we've talked about, and so the grading is significantly less. There is some grade towards you approach Fairfax Boulevard and that's probably when you see more tree removal in those areas. And so I'd look at this impact as probably low to moderate with it being on the more low end. And I would say also unlike a lot of projects, this does provide access for invasive control. That's not always the case. Some of the invasive control is very difficult in this site. And so the the trail would provide better access

and of course management needs would be additional planting.

Wendy SanfordstaffOkay, moving on to the next trail, Country Club's Commons background. This was originally envisioned as part of the Metro to Mason route and it was in a slightly different location but later it was identified that this location could provide the same level of connectivity. What this project does is improve access to Old Town and Fairfax Boulevard for both residents north and south of Fairfax Boulevard. What you see at the bottom are two graphics from the multimodal transportation plan. The graphic on the left shows the street grid. So all of the white lines are streets that exist in the city. What it shows on the right is what we call the functional street grid, meaning streets that connect elsewhere.

So what you see is all of the streets in this area around Blenheim in this area do not connect out to Fairfax Boulevard. In order for residents to get out of this neighborhood by vehicle, the access is on Blenheim Boulevard. And so what this connection does is provide a non-vehicular connection across Fairfax Boulevard. Otherwise, it's about almost a mile and a half to get from the same point sort of in Country Club Hills out to Fairfax Boulevard using Lion Run or going around closer to Old Town. So what this does is it provides access to bicycle facilities on Fairwoods Parkway to the George Snyder Trail and it was and it's located right behind the fire station giving it sort of eyes on the trail which provides a level of security and safety. This shows the the concept planning

for this project it would be mostly boardwalk the photo on the right is just an example that is the credit union trail in Vienna if you're familiar with that but that is sort of an example photo of what this trail would would look like in terms of the status this project has not started we have received the funding this was included in the FY 19 two-year program and we received FY 20 smart scale funding we have five million dollars to do this project and again has not started and then in terms of the forest impact again I will have Anna speak to this again

Annastaffthis project is fully within the or almost fully within the resource protection area when considering passive recreation trails thinking about what alternative options might exist and what the project design is we don't have a project design yet so some of the information is hard to say we don't have a tree inventory for the number of trees to be removed when it comes to invasives or other disturbance on the site there is some at the edges as you go into the forest there's less but access for invasives, unlike what I was saying for Pickett Trail, access for invasive removal is not necessary for this area, and there is a concern that more invasives would be introduced through inserting a trail into the area.

The terrain is variable. It's flat towards the country club's neighborhood, and then as you approach the fire station, it has a significant grade to it, And so grading and the impact of trees would be a concern in that area. And like most projects, planting and invasive management, and I would think overall impact would probably lean towards more of the moderate end because of that grade as well as the invasive concern. Thank you.

Wendy SanfordstaffAnd then lastly, the George Snyder Trail, I have one slide on this. We're very familiar with this project funded by concessionaire payment. We are in final plans. We the status is that the advertisement has been paused awaiting direction from City Council V dot has given the city a deadline of December 31st to have updated 100% plans That concludes my presentation and again, these are just trails there are I would do want to mention We have numerous shared use path projects shared use paths in progress as well But the ask of us was to discuss the trails. Thank you

Speaker 38Councilmember Peterson. Just for clarification and maybe Mr. Foster can help here. There is a map of the, a sketch map of the alternative. What I had expected it would be in the presentation, but when might that be available for people to review?

Brian FosterstaffWell, I have paper copies, but Casey can pull it up because it's been,

Parham Jabariwe

Brian Fosterstaffjust got it yesterday. THERE YOU GO.

Speaker 38IF I MIGHT, THIS IS THE PRODUCT OF QUITE A BIT OF COMMUNITY INPUT AND CONSIDERATION FROM COUNCIL MEMBERS, BUT THIS IS A SKETCH OF AN ALTERNATIVE ROUTE THAT IS OUTLINED in green in this map. And you can't probably see the color coding real well, but essentially there's a set of red dots, which is a Route 66 bike path coming off 66. It connects with blue dots, which are existing or approved segments of bikeways. The green dots are proposed connector segments that would connect the dots the blue so that we have a continuous connection that comes down Eaton Place University Drive into Fairfax Boulevard and then from Fairfax Boulevard goes all the way down in this case to past Fairfax High School just to note that

when we visited with VDOT the conversation was around looking at an alternative that would focus on the West only that would terminate at Fairwoods Parkway but when we had internal discussion it was suggested that for purposes of presentation to VDOT, we stretch that the full distance to show that it could be possible pending resources available. So in this map, it runs the entire duration of Fairfax Boulevard. And I think the context for this is that VDOT had asked to have us return with a sketch for initial consideration as soon as possible to make sure that this is directionally correct so that we could take next steps if they're in agreement.

Catherine ReadSo who exactly on the dais was involved as far as input? Could I just ask? Could I? Okay, I'm just trying to determine when you say who was involved in designing this with a lot of input. This looks like that it is not a shared use path or trail to me. it looks like it is a bike path that is using existing sidewalks and existing sidewalks and already pay paths. Would that be correct? Is that what this is showing?

Speaker 38So the design details remain to be determined, but this is following, in the case of the Green Dots, an existing sidewalk that's seven feet wide that would be a candidate for widening and a candidate for the installation of a protective barrier so that it could serve as a shared bike path. would be consistent with similar designs that have been used in these kinds of circumstances. It also connects to work that's currently approved or in place to do the same in terms of a shared bike path that comes out of the intersection up by the Moose Lodge and down to Eaton.

Stacy HallIf I may I think some other benefits of this over a trail in the woods is that this would truly be accessible in the evening hours, it would be well lit, it would be available to be used at all hours of the day and would not be essentially closed just from dawn to dusk like the trail through the woods would be. It also does not have a lot of the devastation to our forests that I think every other version of this proposed plan does. I think it still provides the connection points. What I really actually like about this is that we talk about connectivity, we talk about bringing people into our city. Having a path that goes right through the woods and doesn't put them at all into our major arteries does not encourage them to

stop and shop, does not encourage them to check out a new restaurant or business. I mean, I think this provides that connection point. I'd feel much safer with my child riding, or my kids now, riding their bikes from our house to Fairfax High School on something like this rather than what currently exists. And I certainly wouldn't put them on a path through the woods to then turn around and go to the high school. I mean, it's dark at night when they get out. to school to me this is this is great I I don't think this precludes a conversation about a footpath that could run through these same spots or something along the stream restoration project I think those are separate conversations to have and I don't mean to muddy the waters here but if our goal

is connectivity this is connecting businesses residents people this is bringing people where we want them to be. So that's my take on this.

Catherine ReadMs. Sanford, is this an entirely different project?

Wendy SanfordstaffI'm not really in a position to answer that question. I think the question is whether it meets the scope and the intent of what we submitted and I do think that that's an interpretation that VDOT would need to provide. I don't, my hesitation is that given the time limit that they have given us the exploration and public engagement that would be required to get this project to 100% plans is what concerns me there's this is a significant amount of right-of-way acquisition and evaluation that has not occurred

Catherine Readwhich makes me feel like this is an entirely different project these

Wendy Sanfordstaffare what I have said in the past is that we are not precluded from doing this the two separate types of projects. They're for different types of users, they're different types of, they're different in nature.

Catherine ReadCouncilmember Amos.

Anthony AmosI think it's okay, just worth at least asking VDOT and if they come back to us and say no, then clearly we need to reevaluate. We don't even know if this is a feasible option. I would like to hear from them first before we just, well, we don't need to spend all night talking about this. Let's move on.

Catherine ReadAnyone else?

Stacey Hardy-ChandlerCouncil Member

Catherine ReadHardy Chandler

Stacey Hardy-ChandlerI apologize I did not see who had input on this

Catherine ReadCouncil Member Hall and Council Member Peterson

Stacy Halland a number of members from the community just as a reference point this wasn't just Council Member Peterson and I sat down and did any of this I was much more advisory but there was a lot of community input from people that are vested in seeing a difference a different option

Speaker 38well I would add also And Council Member Bates, can you correct me here, this is actually somewhat consistent with the proposal that you made over a year ago? And we chatted a bit about this

Billy Batesin relation to that? Somewhat. There have been a couple changes.

Catherine ReadSo, further discussion on this? Council Member Amos? It feels like we should submit this to VDOT as a preliminary design. Ms. Sanford, I guess there's a consensus. We have not voted. There is a consensus to present this to VDOT as an alternate design.

Katie Johnsonpublic commentOkay.

Catherine ReadOkay. So it sounds like we have a consensus. Yes, Council Member Bates.

Billy BatesOne question. just in case there might be feasibility issues with this route due to the you know the the constraint of the drainage ditch at the corner of Eden and Fairfax Boulevard could we maybe add just another green dotted line the rest of the way down even places an alternative just in case they say that or it comes back that we might not be able to do this?

Wendy SanfordstaffCouncil Member Bates, what VDOT is going to be looking at is just the concept of an on-road versus an off-road facility at this point. There is a lot of engineering that would need to be done. That is one of many issues that would come up. The sidewalk falls off. There's a steep grade in many places. So there are retaining walls. There is drainage. There is grading. There are numerous engineering issues. So I hear what you're saying, but that the question right now to VDOT is an on-road option, a completely on-road option, an alternative that is feasible under our current project. I mean, that is what I understand as the question. The feasibility, I think, is a whole separate question in terms of the engineering, the technical feasibility.

Right now, the question is, is this project allowable? I think is maybe the right word to use under the current project scope and definition. And then if yes, then we move through the feasibility.

Billy BatesYeah. Okay. I think that makes sense. I think it's certainly worthwhile to send this off to VDOT and see what they come back with.

Speaker 38And just to clarify, I think when we chatted earlier, the green segment at the very beginning of Eaton is on the south side. It's on the south side as designed. The north side is possible, but that would get to getting in the weeds a little bit. That's not here, but that's certainly something that could be added as an alternative. But the larger, so for the time being, this is just south side and it connects to the blue dots, which are the already in place connection down University Drive.

Catherine ReadAll right. Are we ready to conclude this presentation on the trails and adjourn into our meeting? It seems like we have consensus. I am now... No. May I ask a question

Stacy Hallfirst?

Catherine ReadCouncil Member Hall.

Stacy HallThank you. So when it comes to the Country Club Hills Connector, the slide, I think it's nine, the functional street grid, just to point out there that that doesn't include the footpaths that currently exist my husband and our dog and I went out and walked those over the weekend we did the entire George Snyder's Trail we did the footpath that goes from Pinehurst to the high school and we did the footpath that goes from the Commons down and I don't know if we took a wrong turn or but we dumped out on the not police or fire station side of the M&T Bank the Main Street Bank there the

Wendy Sanfordstafffunctional speaker refers again to the streets that are for vehicular use. Footpaths are certainly there. They exist all over. What we're talking about is an accessible path, which is different than sort of a footpath or a goat path type of a thing.

Stacy HallOkay, it just seems like an odd term to use, and maybe it's just a transportation term, but functional street grid would mean to me you can drive a car through it, and if we're not driving a car through it, then I don't know that we really care that it is a street grid because it's for non-vehicular traffic, as you said, right? Correct. Okay. Maybe just a transportation quirk. Okay. Thank you.

Catherine ReadCouncil Member Bates.

Billy BatesTo follow up on that, I think something else that might be helpful for us to see is, and I think I might know where it is in the comprehensive plan, but I'll try and find it. but if we maybe when we have the vote later on if we could maybe pull up the diagram that shows the 15-minute walk sheds with regard to the activity centers you know in this area I recall seeing that in a comprehensive plan that might be it I think maybe a bit more you know relevant to pass specifically

Catherine Readanything further well

Speaker 38just to add I'm I'm in support of that but hope that we would pull up the most recent version of the comprehensive plan that includes all of the updates that were provided by the environmental sustainability committee last year that I think help us show the consistency of what we're doing here against those updates.

Catherine ReadAnything else? No? Okay, great. We'll take a five-minute recess before we start the regular council meeting in the chambers. Thank you. Thank you. Yep.

Richali OakThank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Katie Johnsonpublic commentOh, man. Thank you.

Catherine ReadThank you. Good evening. I would like to call the regular meeting of April 22, 2025 to order. Welcome everyone to the chamber. If you are able and so choose, please rise for the Pledge of Allegiance.

Susan Kylerpublic commentI pledge allegiance to the flag of the

Catherine ReadUnited States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice

Stacey Hardy-Chandlerfor all.

Catherine ReadI'd like to ask Anna Sanford, Sophia Chapin, Stephanie Kupka, Melissa Pennant, and the Environmental Sustainability Committee to come down for the Earth Day and Arbor Day Proclamation. Are we all gathered for the proclamation? Whereas the city of Fairfax recognizes the natural environment as the foundation of a healthy society and a robust economy, providing essential resources that sustain life and contribute to the well-being of all. And whereas the global community faces extraordinary environmental challenges, including environmental degradation, global health issues, loss of habitat, climate change, food and water shortages. And whereas Earth Day and Arbor Day serve as annual reminders that we are all caretakers

of our planet and have an obligation to engage in environmental activism, stewardship commitments, and sustainability efforts to preserve the Earth's beauty and resources for current and future generations. And whereas the first Earth Day was celebrated in 1970, calling upon millions of Americans to act for a cleaner, safer, and healthier environment. And whereas the City of Fairfax has been recognized as a Tree City USA by the National Arbor Day Foundation for over three decades, setting aside a special day each year for the planting and celebration of trees is vital to our quality of life and environmental health. And whereas Earth Day and Arbor Day provide opportunities for the community to come together and participate in activities that promote a cleaner,

healthier and more sustainable environment now therefore I Catherine S. Reed Mayor of the City of Fairfax do hereby proclaim April 22nd 2025 as Earth Day and April 25th 2025 as Arbor Day in the City of Fairfax and hereby encourage our community and businesses to observe these days by taking action to protect and enhance our environment this includes participating in activities such as planting trees, reducing waste, recycling, picking up litter, conserving energy and water resources, and otherwise engaging in actions big and small to preserve our natural resources for the benefit of all living things. And with that, I will invite Melissa Pennant to say a few words.

Melissa PennantThank you, May Reid and City Council members. We will like to celebrate this Earth Day. Later this spring, at Draper Drive Park, we will have a mural that's painted by the wonderful Jessica Pidcock entitled Mother's Helpers that will be on display at Draper Drive Park. In our lobby, we have a sculpture that was created by Nadia Sterre entitled City Trails, Urban Tales. Also a commemoration of Earth Day and all the environmental activities we have going on. We also have History Day, which is this Saturday from 10 to 4 at Historic Blenheim. And I encourage all of you guys to come out and celebrate History Day with the city. And we also have Arbor Day festivities going on, including a tree photo contest.

is taking place right now. And we have a very special treat tonight. Faiza? Yes.

Faiza AlamGood evening, everyone. I'm Faiza Alam. I'm one of the science teachers at Catherine Johnson and also the ESC member here. I have the privilege to bring in one of my students, Vivian Lee, who was one of the Poetry Contest winner for the Arbor Day. And it's a delight. And I would also like to invite you for one more event tomorrow. We are planting trees at Catherine Johnson Middle School at 11 a.m. you're most welcome to join us on the Bevan side of the school. And I would invite Vivian to recite her poetry now.

Vivian LeeThank you. The weight of what we have lost. Today I woke with no answers, but the sky felt heavier as if it knew, as if it too could sense the weight of what we have lost. the days when seasons knew their place, when summer gracefully gave way into fall like clockwork, not this climatic chaos. Once oceans sparkled with vibrant blues, now they rise to reclaim what we have taken. Landscapes unfolded like paintings, harmoniously blending in waves of color, where flora and fauna danced as one, hand in hand, the rhythm unbroken and the now fractured earth we have scarred. At the other end of the spyglass, I see a world unraveling, spiraling in vain repetition. Fires that rage as if anger is the air they breathe. Floods that swallow land

like memories we can't quite hold. The balance we once knew now hangs by a thread, contradicting what we crave, a return to what was steady, safe. Yet, here we stand, absorbed, enraptured by the immediate, closing our hearts to the planet's future, thinking it distant, a problem for another generation. But for how long can we look away? How long can we ignore the truth that hums beneath the heat, deny the trembling ground beneath our feet, the flames looking at our heels, the pleas of warning that ripple through soil and sky, as the atmosphere thickens, choking on our refusal to try? Global warming, this is our final warning. We cannot ignore this insolence toward our planet. This place where we once loved and laughed, where we grieved and fought,

this is our home. It is by no means beyond repair, but we must lay the groundwork, not for what we remember, but for what we might still save. In unity by shared stewards of humanity, we stand. We must rise to this mountain, not in defeat, but in equilibrium between urgency and resolve. So, what will we choose? Will we stand by, letting the earth, once green now gasping for air, slip through our fingers like sand trickling into hourglass? Or will we grasp the moments that remain, using each second to craft a future, where the earth sings once again, vibrant and new. where today's scars heal into the blooming beauty of tomorrow. The blank slate of our planet's future is laid out before us and it is ours to write.

Brian FosterstaffThank

Vivian Leeyou.

Catherine ReadThat was beautiful. Thank you, Vivian. Anyone else or are we ready for a photo? Okay, we're ready for a photo. Okay, Chloe Ritter. Multimodal transportation. This is a great one. All right. What month is it? What month is it? It's bike month. It's bike month. Okay. Stand with me. Whereas, bicycling is an effective way to encourage health and fitness, reduce traffic congestion, and support the city's sustainability goals, such as air quality improvements and energy conservation. And whereas the city is investing in bicycling infrastructure to expand transportation options and improve connections between neighborhoods, activity centers, transit, and the region. And whereas the National Capital Region Transportation Planning Board,

through its Commuter Connections Program, promotes bicycling as a sustainable commuting option and is celebrating Bike to Work Day on Thursday, May 15th, with events throughout the region. And whereas the month of May is National Bike Month, established to increase awareness of bicycle safety and the benefits of bicycling. And whereas the city is proud to support the Old Town Fairfax Bike to Work Day pit stop and other Fairfax City Bike Month activities. Now, therefore, I, Catherine S. Reed, mayor of the city of Fairfax, do hereby proclaim May 2025 as Bike Month in the city of Fairfax and encourage the community to enjoy the benefits of bicycling and to practice bicycle safety. I turn it over to you, Chloe.

Speaker 7Thank you, Mayor Reed, and thank you, City Council, for your support for bicycling in the city. So I just want to mention a few of the activities that we have planned for Bike Month. and there's a flyer out on the in the lobby if you see one you can pick one up with all of this information so we have promotions from Capital Bikeshare for new rides for a free ride for new riders or a $20 off a membership so that's lasting all throughout the bike month we have a community ride on May 10th that's in the Fairfax circle area we can explore some some of where the bike share stations are and commuting routes to the Vienna Metro station we will of course have biked bike to work day this year it is on a Thursday so if you're used to

on a Friday don't show up a day late and you can get your free t-shirts and snacks and just come enjoy bicycling with the rest of the community and then we'll have a traffic garden for young ones to practice traffic safety and bicycle pedestrian safety at the kids safety day activities that's coinciding with the antique car show so I hope everybody will come out and enjoy our activities all right a photo a

Catherine Readphoto I'm going to ask Susan Gray of the historic resources, Megan Leining, and the historic Historic Resources staff, come on down, Historic Resources staff. Gather around. So we are here to proclaim about National Preservation Month, and when I say Preservation month, I of course mean historic preservation. Whereas, National Preservation Week started in 1973 to raise awareness about the importance of preserving our past for future generations. In 1980, President Jimmy Carter issued the first presidential proclamation recognizing National Preservation Week, which expanded to month-long celebrations in 1985. And whereas historic is an effective tool for economic vitality, tourism, planning, growth management, and

neighborhood revitalization, helping to foster local pride and enhancing community character and pride. And whereas preservation is celebrated every day with stewardship of the City of Fairfax three public historic sites, Fairfax Museum and Visitor Center, Historic Blenheim, and Ratcliffe Allison Poser House, which welcomes visitors with exhibitions, programs, and information. Whereas, preserve the past, protect the future is the theme of National Preservation Month 2025 and will be observed in the City of Fairfax with a cemetery preservation program on May 17, 2025 at Historic Blenheim and with a walking tour of the Old Town Fairfax National Register Historic District led by Historic Fairfax City, Inc., HFCI, on May 31, 2025.

Now, therefore, I, Catherine S. Reed, Mayor of the City of Fairfax, do hereby proclaim May 2025 as National Preservation Month in the City of Fairfax and encourage the community to participate in activities that foster awareness and appreciation of historic structures and historic contributions to shaping the history of the City of Fairfax, Virginia. And with that, I will turn it over to Ms. Susan Gray.

Susan GraystaffThank you. Thank you, Mayor Reed, and thank you, members of the City Council. And I'd also just like to thank and recognize our staff members here today. Megan Leining, Cammie St. Germain, and Andrea Lowenwater were able to join us. And while it's really nice and appropriate to have Historic Preservation Month and to be recognized by the city, I'd like for everybody to know that that's our goal throughout the year. charge is to preserve the city's public historic sites and do everything that we can toward preservation of other important sites in the city. And so we take that job very seriously, but we have fun doing it. And we get a lot of pleasure out of introducing stories that are connected with the historic

sites and introducing you all as the community to the history here in the city of Fairfax. And I would also like to say that it seems very appropriate that we fit in right with the other two proclamations that you've heard tonight because not only are we preserving historic sites but we're preserving that environment around the historic sites. And then also this will be the that we've partnered with other city departments for History Day and that's TREE Day. So it's a combination of Earth Day activities, environmental awareness activities, and also historical activities that will be a part of the History Day at Historic Blenheim on Saturday. It's also nice that May is also bike month because you can take any type of transportation

to our historic sites and certainly to History Day. We will have two Q-buses running to bring people to the site on Saturday and then certainly we're accessible every day by bike and other means of transportation. So come out and enjoy the city's historic sites and certainly join us on Saturday at Historic Glen. Thank you.

Catherine ReadSo I just want to acknowledge Ms. Susan Gray. Come over here. Don't run away. Because May is also the last History Day. Not forever, but Susan is retiring after many, many, many years. and many of the historic sites you see, so many of the advances, so many of the things that have been investments in this city is because of Susan Gray. And I did not want her to get away today without everyone acknowledging that it is staff like this who do it because of a passion. It's not just a job. It is a passion. And what Susan has invested in this city is priceless, absolutely priceless. And so I want everyone to give her a rousing round of applause as she says goodbye to us. She won't be a stranger. She won't be a stranger, but her time with us is ending.

So thank you. Okay, I'm going to ask Eileen Craigie, founder of Dark Sky Friends, dark sky NOVA chapter leader and dark sky international advocate and her posse her crew come on down because when it comes to the environment we just cannot say enough about it come on come on come on come on

Susan Kylerpublic commentall right

Catherine ReadWhereas, the aesthetic beauty and wonder of a natural night sky is a shared heritage of all humankind. And whereas the experience of standing under a starry night sky inspires feelings of wonder and awe, encouraging a growing interest in science and nature, particularly among young people and visitors from outside the local communities. And whereas light pollution has scientifically established economic and environmental consequences which result in significant impacts on the ecology and human health of all communities. And whereas 80% of the world's population, including many people in the city of Fairfax, live under a dome of light pollution, excessive artificial lighting at night that disrupts natural darkness

and may never experience the visual wonder or ecological and health benefits of living under a dark sky. And whereas light pollution represents a waste of natural resources amounting to roughly $3 billion per year of wasted energy in the United States and contributes to diminished energy security. And whereas Virginia has the most dark sky parks on the East Coast, The parks achieved the designation by establishing an outdoor lighting policy that minimized light pollution, outreach to the local community, and hosting and promoting programs for guests to enjoy stargazing. Whereas the Dark Sky International is the globally recognized authority on light pollution, recognizes International Dark Sky Week to raise awareness of the effects of light pollution,

provide free education, resources, and solutions to the public to encourage the protection of and enjoyment of dark skies and responsible outdoor lighting. Now, therefore, I, Catherine S. Reed, Mayor of the City of Fairfax, do hereby declare April 21st through 28th, 2025, is International Dark Sky Week in the City of Fairfax and ask the community to join me in observing and pondering upon this important week and in raising awareness and support for protecting our precious Dark Skies resources. And with that, I will turn it over to Eileen. Thank you, Mayor,

Speaker 7Green, and Council. I want to introduce Tom Reiner. He's also with our chapter, and Dr. Peter Plavchin.

Gwen RiddlestaffHe's the most immediate president of Dark Sky International, and he'll say a few words. So thank you.

Tom ReinerThank you. I'm Tom Reiner. I just completed two years as president of Dark Sky International. the international organization, and I'm on the board. And I happen to be a resident of the city of Fairfax. Who knew? Right. And Eileen is the head of our Northern Virginia chapter, which is one of the more busy chapters in the United States. She's obtained more dark sky proclamations than any person on the planet. Okay? Last year, I think she had 20 of the 100 that were worldwide. and Peter is George Mason University a professor of physics and many people don't know we have an observatory at George Mason University doing NASA funded research headed by Peter and that's why dark skies are important. We're latecomers to the environmental movement. We started as an astronomical

organization but we've learned the adverse impacts of excessive light at night on the environment and on human health. So what we're for is responsible lighting. You can have very good, responsible, well-designed lighting that doesn't interfere with the environment the way it does. So we have to change our infrastructure throughout the United States, throughout the world, and that's our mission. And Virginia is a hotbed of activism. We have more dark sky parks. We have people here who have seen the sky disappear because of development, particularly in Northern Virginia. We need to fight to bring it back. That's our mission.

Speaker 38Thank you very much, Mayor Reed.

Tom ReinerThank you. Do you want anything else?

Catherine ReadWe're going to do a picture. I want to do a picture.

Billy BatesShort people in front. Great,

Speaker 38thank you, Mayor, thank you, council, thank you, very much.

Catherine ReadOh, and now I'm going to ask Larry Larson to come down and give out the chocolate lovers grants. Come on down, Larry. Oh, it's Jennifer Rose? Okay, this is what they do to me all the time. We like

Jennifer Rosepublic commentto keep you on

Catherine Readyour table. Larry, you're not Larry. No. You are so not Larry.

Jennifer Rosepublic commentBut, you know, to be compared

Catherine Readto Larry is

Jennifer Rosepublic commentpretty cool.

Stacy SummerfieldstaffWell, Larry is

Vivian Leehere.

Jennifer Rosepublic commentAll right. So I'm Jennifer Rose, not Larry Larson. I am the chair of the Chocolate Lovers Festival Committee. Fun fact about Chocolate Lovers Festival, since the first festival in 1993 and it was started by the Central Fairfax Chamber of Commerce which I am currently executive director, the downtown Fairfax coalition, at that point in time the downtown Fairfax merchants Association, George Mason and of course the city of Fairfax. Fast forward to today and pretty much all those groups are still involved plus many many more. I don't know how many of you have attended the Chocolate Lovers Festival tradition in the city of Fairfax. It is the first weekend in February and this year like most years a part of our mission of bringing people into the city

of Fairfax and showing off all the great things we have to offer. We also have a grant program. We provide grants to different charities. I don't know the answer. Larry I know you know. How many grant applications do we have this year? We had nine. We had nine. Okay that's a good number. We chose three recipients. recipient is receiving $1,500 for the work of their respective organizations. The bulk of the funding from that comes from our signature event, Taste of Chocolate, our golden ticket, chocolate bar, the musical cakes, and all the other fun things that we do as a part of the festival. So our first grant recipient is, who do we have first? Drum roll, Vanna. The Lamb Center.

Gwen RiddlestaffCome on down. We have our great, don't

Jennifer Rosepublic commentput this one in the bank. But I think we have a proper check to give you, to put it to the bank. Wonderful. This one would not go through the drive-thru. Let's get a photo. I know. Let's give it a minute. All right. Thank you very much. There you go. So, congratulations. Thank you. For all the good work

Gwen Riddlestaffyou do

Jennifer Rosepublic commentin the community. Thank you. Okay. Tighten up. Smile.

Stacy SummerfieldstaffCongratulations, Lamb Center.

Jennifer Rosepublic commentNext up we have the Shelter House. Come on down. And last but certainly not least, Pathway Homes. so make plans for next year February the first weekend of February it's gonna look a little different next year because Old Town

Gwen RiddlestaffHall is going to be

Jennifer Rosepublic commentclose for renovation but the Sherwood Center is going to be a great home for our taste of Fairfax. Put it on your calendars now. We hope to see everybody next year supporting the Chocolate Lovers Festival. Thank you.

Melissa Shinaberryclerkby voiceOkay. We can move to the adoption of the agenda.

Catherine ReadIs there a motion to approve the agenda? Councilmember Hardy-Chandler? I move to adopt the agenda as presented. Is there a second?

Speaker 38There is a second, and I would also like to move to amend the agenda for tonight's meeting relating to consideration of actions arising out of work session pertaining to various city trails projects i further move that this item be added immediately after adoption of the agenda as item number four point b

Catherine Readdo i have a second to the amended emotion is that how we do this second second okay so we have an amended emotion moved by council member peterson seconded by council a roll call vote

Melissa Shinaberryclerkby voiceCouncilmember Amos

Catherine Readaye

Melissa Shinaberryclerkby voiceCouncilmember Hall aye Councilmember Hardy Chandler aye Councilmember Peterson aye

ClarkclerkCouncilmember

Melissa Shinaberryclerkby voiceMcCullen aye okay motion passed five to zero

Catherine Readokay public hearing so

Speaker 29a microphone sorry that now just a roll call on the main motion okay so

Catherine Readso now we have a roll call on the motion to approve the agenda with its amended amendment

Melissa Shinaberryclerkby voicecouncilmember Amos I councilmember Hall I councilmember Hardy Chandler

Stacey Hardy-ChandlerI

Melissa Shinaberryclerkby voicecouncilmember Peterson I councilmember McQuillan I motion passed five to zero now we can move to the 4b

Catherine Read4b

Melissa Shinaberryclerkby voicehey sorry for a

Catherine ReadI do not have a 4a so right okay

Speaker 29so that was just added and I believe mr. Peterson

Catherine Readokay so this is

Speaker 29emotions

Catherine Readso councilmember Peterson so

Speaker 38I will have a series of three motions for consideration the first I move that the city submit the concept sketch discussed in the work session this evening revising the proposed alignment for the George Snyder trail to be not for its review

Stacy Hallsecond

Catherine Readmotion has been made by council member member Peterson and seconded by Councilmember Hall a roll call vote.

Melissa Shinaberryclerkby voiceCouncilmember McQuillan? Aye. Councilmember Bates?

Catherine ReadAye.

Melissa Shinaberryclerkby voiceCouncilmember Peterson?

Catherine ReadAye.

Melissa Shinaberryclerkby voiceCouncilmember Hardy-Chandler?

Catherine ReadAye.

Melissa Shinaberryclerkby voiceCouncilmember Hall?

Catherine ReadAye.

Melissa Shinaberryclerkby voiceCouncilmember Amos?

Catherine ReadAye.

Melissa Shinaberryclerkby voiceMotion passed unanimously.

Catherine ReadCouncilmember Peterson?

Speaker 38I move that the city pause all action with respect to the picket trail

Catherine Readalternatives is there a second yes second a motion has been made by council member Peterson and seconded by council member Hall a roll call vote

Melissa Shinaberryclerkby voicecouncil member Amos

Anthony Amosnay

Melissa Shinaberryclerkby voicecouncil member Hall aye council member Hardy Chandler

Stacy Hallnay

Melissa Shinaberryclerkby voicecouncil member Peterson

Stacy Hallaye

Melissa Shinaberryclerkby voicecouncil member Bates aye council member McQuillan motion passed 4 to 2 I

Speaker 38move that the city terminate all action with respect to the country Club Hills connector trail

Catherine Readis there a second second a motion has been made by councilmember Peterson and seconded by councilmember McQuillan a roll call vote

Melissa Shinaberryclerkby voicecouncilmember McQuillan aye councilmember Bates aye councilmember Peterson aye councilmember Hardy Chandler aye councilmember Hall motion passing unanimously

Anthony Amoswe

Melissa Shinaberryclerkby voicecan move on to the public hearings our first public hearing is on the maximum real estate tax of a dollar one five zero per one hundred dollar of assessed value based upon an assessment ratio of 100% of fair market value and a personal property and machinery and tools tax rate of four $100 of assessed value based upon an assessment ratio of 100% trade-in value. I'll recognize JC Martinez, Chief Financial Officer, to provide the staff presentation.

JC MartinezstaffThank you. Mayor, Council, the city manager's proposed budget recommends a real estate tax rate of $1.12.50 per 100 of assessed value. That's a $0.9.50 rate increase effective January 1, 2025. On March 11, 2025, the City Council advertised a real estate tax rate of $1.15 per $100 of assessed value, which was 2.5 cents more than the city manager's fiscal year 2026 proposed budget real estate tax rate. The real estate tax rate is necessary to provide combined residential and commercial properties equalization, equalization whereby the average property owner would pay no more in taxes than in the prior year equates to 98 cents 98.43 cents the personal property and machinery and tools rate is recommended at four dollars and thirteen cents per one hundred dollars of assessed valuation

based on the assessment ratio of 100 percent of term market value the recommended personal property tax rate for qualifying members of the volunteer fire department or the volunteer rescue is one cent per $100 of assessed valuation. The proposed personal property tax rate of $4.13 remains unchanged from the current year's rate. The City of Fairfax City Council adopted a personal property assessment ratio for vehicles of 100% for fiscal year 2024, and the proposed budget maintains this level. One cent on the real estate tax rate is equivalent to $834,950 dollars happy to answer any questions are

Catherine Readthere questions from the dice questions of staff okay I will open the public hearing mission to barriers this public hearing been advertised yes

Melissa Shinaberryclerkby voiceit has I had one person sign up prior to the start of the meeting to sign up to speak I'm gonna call Rob Yingling to the front to the podium just please state your name and street address in your comment

Rob Yinglingpublic commentThanks. My name is Rob Gingling. I reside at 3708 Mason Street. I've been a proud resident of the city for 21 years. I appreciate the hard work of the mayor and city council to make this city a pleasant and livable place. However, I was stunned to receive in the mail my real estate tax assessment for this year because it represents a double whammy increase of both the assessed value of the home plus a very significant tax increase, combining to equate to 16% increase for me personally at my residence versus last year. This comes just three years after an assessment in 2022 that raised my tax by 18%. The only difference was that year you held the rate steady. It was just literally the assessment that shot through the roof.

I implore the mayor and the city council to exercise fiscal vigilance and take proactive steps to avoid hikes of this magnitude, especially in the climate of doge cuts, layoffs, and economic uncertainty on a national scale. I also want to thank you for holding the public workshop over at the Sherwood Center. We could learn more about the reasoning behind this proposed tax hike. understanding after attending I do understand it is in many ways tied to these the school and the public safety budget are good arguably that those folks deserve a raise but I think the burden is being placed excuse me I think the burden is being placed on city residents in out of balance with that proposal thank you is

Melissa Shinaberryclerkby voicethere anybody else in this room that would like to speak on this agenda item, you may come forward.

Nicholas Lawrencepublic commentGood evening. My name is Nicholas Lawrence. I live at 3579 University Drive. Like the gentleman who just spoke, I was astonished to receive a letter from the Commissioner of the Revenue regarding the proposed tax rates. We just had an election. I received mail from almost all of you, and I don't remember anybody suggesting that you intended to raise my taxes on an order of this magnitude. All of the information about assessments and rates, all of that can be very confusing. I went back and looked at the budget. When my wife and I purchased our home in 2017, the city budget was $166 million. dollars what i understand has been proposed is 360 million dollars that is a 216 increase in eight years now i look to see what the explanation for that was and frankly i can't understand it

in 2017 the city had 400 full-time employees the city now has 464 or will have if the proposed budget is adopted that's an increase of only 14 percent I thought perhaps the significant inflation that I see every time I buy anything might explain it now that's only 30 percent so for reasons that are are not clear to me at all the city budget is increasing at seven times seven plus times the rate of inflation and I would submit to you that in the election that we just had, that might have been a time to let residents know what the choices are that they might have to make regarding these financial burdens and the fact that nothing at all was said by any of you is pretty appalling. Thank you.

Melissa Shinaberryclerkby voiceIs there anybody else in this room? You can come forward, sir.

David Gellerpublic commentHello, I'm David Geller at 10305 Darby Street, and I've, third time I've been here, about the very same issue. I just went to, you know, your working meeting about the Sherwood and the Willard Center, and it's, you know, really interesting, and it's really fun, and you see these beautiful drawings and this beautiful thing. I have a lot of problems with the actual proposal which we can talk about at some point I mean one of them is just expansion why would you ever want to build a building that costs that much and have no way of expanding and they just said no, there's no expansion built in but while I can understand why you would want something like that and I like these things we talked about last time I was here

about a lot of the arts and this sort of thing to add to our tax burden of all the people who live in this city, all of them, the renters, the people who own houses, the people who I guess who live in hotels, to add this much money in one year. I mean, my bill went up 20%. I know everybody's didn't. Mine went up 20%. And I'm just completely, I mean, I understand it's a tough job to have to say no to things. particular as an example this plan to build this multi-million you know yeah it's going to be shared with Fairfax County but Fairfax City believe me is going to have a lot of the burden of maintaining it and keeping it going having staffing I just think it's just beyond we can't afford it and you know

to have to borrow borrow borrow and then have to keep paying paying paying and raising taxes on everybody who lives here I just think it's wrong it's just wrong and it's just wrong for the people who live here and really can't afford it. So I thank you for listening to me and I appreciate your time and I know it's hard. I certainly understand how hard it is. So thanks a lot.

Melissa Shinaberryclerkby voiceIs there anybody else?

Zach Burrowspublic commentHello, my name is Zach Burrows. I'm at 3574 Sutton Heights Circle, the new community on Pickett's Road. I'm actually here in my personal capacity but also as the HOA president on behalf of the majority of the members of the community. I sent out a notice beforehand to ask if they wanted me to stand as a proxy. And the majority of folks asked me to and voiced my opinion here, which is that, again, Again, I agree with the folks that have just spoken. We need to take a look at expenditures before we look at a tax raise of this magnitude. I think there's three different ways we can look at it. There's the special projects, the community center we just talked about, which is an astronomical price that we're going to have to carry for many, many years.

The debt service on that is extremely high. In addition to that, we have some increases on just general cost centers that are magnitudes ahead of inflation. Why are we spending that amount of money? Are we seeing the same increase in population coming into the community that justifies that spend? And then third, there's just some areas where we need to look at do we need these expenditures? Zero-based budgeting. Go back and look and say, is this something we actually need? Or do we just need to keep tacking on 6% to 7% increase every single year? It's not sustainable. And frankly, the members of the community can't sustain a 15% increase. other tax rates that are on the agenda tonight, the meals tax, again, is another tax on top

of this that, again, hits everybody in the community. So, again, I'd ask for the council to really think about whether we need this tax increase. The assessments are increasing, so you're already seeing your base expand, but to then add a tax rate increase on top of that, that's why you're getting people there to come up here and say 15, 16, 20% increase. And that's, again, that's in one year. And folks around here are having to watch their pockets. So when you're having to factor another 20% unexpectedly, that is something that cannot, you know, is difficult to swallow. So again, I'd like to implore the council to look at expenditures before tax increases. Thank you.

Melissa Shinaberryclerkby voiceIs there anybody else in the room that would like to speak on this agenda item? Yeah, sure.

Doug Coxpublic commentHello, my name is Doug Cox. I hate speaking in public. I'm at 3916 Fairview Drive, Fairfax, Virginia. I'm going to reiterate what these guys said just to drive it home. Sometimes you've got to say no. I don't know why we need a health center.

James PattersonI've lived here over 30 years.

Doug Coxpublic commentGot along fine without it. We have so much debt already, we don't need to keep adding to it. Now I hear 27 years after we refurbished fire station 3, are we really going to get rid of that one and decide, I think I see in the capital budget, $40 million for a fire station? We're not Fairfax County, and yet Fairfax County can still build one, a fire station out of Tyson's, with a transit facility for $20 million. as 40 million dollars five million for land the rest i don't know i don't know where these numbers come from can't keep paying it what these other folks are saying i feel like i got a deal mine only went 14 folks yay me but i got divorced this past year so i had to go through all this stuff

before so i had it handy 2016 to 2022 year over year add up the 22 rate to 20 or 16 rate went up a total of 20 for me over those seven years if you get what you want what's being asked to the taxpayers next year high 39 percent in four years that's a lot of money i'm an old dude if i retired at 62 two and a half months of my retirement social security would go to just keep paying this bill and if it's gone up 40 in the last four years what's it going to be in the next two three four it's just not stopping it's not like it's a one-time oopsie this is becoming the new drumbeat expensive infrastructure vanity projects i would call them thank you for canceling the trail 600 feet of elevated trail in the woods guys you got to start thinking every one of these projects

comes with a tail it comes with a financial burden whether it's staffing maintenance like the other person said we have increased staffing tremendously someone else pointed it out what a hiring spirit look like from 2022 to this point. What are we, 11% increase in staffing, 48, 50 FTEs below the line but are being requested in future years between now and 30, 30, 30. Can't afford it. Time to get the fiscal house in order. Thank you very much.

Melissa Shinaberryclerkby voiceNext person.

Katie Johnsonpublic commentKatie Johnson, 101-32 Spring Lake Terrace. This is the first time in the work session, I love going to work sessions and retreats, that I've heard of an exit ramp at each phase of the Willard-Sherwood agreement. And I'd ask that you guys explore the exit ramp at this phase. It's too much. It's too big. It's just too much. Thank you.

Melissa Shinaberryclerkby voiceIs there anybody else in the room that wants to speak tax rate.

Catherine ReadI will close the public hearing. No council action will be taken tonight and the tax rate will be set on May 6, 2025.

Melissa Shinaberryclerkby voiceYou're on general public comment, sir. Okay. This is just public

Gwen Riddlestaffhearings right now in the budget.

Melissa Shinaberryclerkby voiceOkay. So the second public hearings on ordinance amending and readopting chapter 90, article 2, division 1, Section 90-33 of the Code of the City of Fairfax, Virginia, pertaining to classification and taxation of certain real property in the City of Fairfax used for zone for commercial and industrial purposes and to establish a separate tax rate on such real property effective as of January 1, 2025, revenue from which would be used exclusively for transportation purposes that benefit the City of Fairfax. I'll recognize J.C. Martinez, Chief Financial Officer, to provide the staff presentation.

JC MartinezstaffMayor, Council, Section 58.1, DAC, 3221.3, the Code of Virginia was adopted as part of the transportation bill enacted during the 2007 session of the General Assembly. the enacted legislation granted local authority to the city and other eligible jurisdictions to impose a separate real estate tax on commercial and industrial property revenue from which shall be used exclusively for transportation purposes to benefit the city city council can adopt a rate between zero cents to twelve and a half cents however no formal action on this item would result in the rate reverting back to zero the attach ordinance would set the 2025 tax years rate at a dollar twelve and a half for one hundred dollars of assessed valuation this would be no change from

the 2024 tax year and would be applicable to all affected real property as of january 1 2025. the proposed 2025 rate of a dollar twelve and a half per hundred of assessed value is the maximum Virginia approximately two hundred and one thousand one hundred thirty two dollars per each one cent of tax rate is imposed or about two point five million dollars at the proposed rate of twelve and a half cents per one hundred dollars of assessed valuation in a very simplistic example of how the city leverages this funding for every one dollar the city levies in the CNI tax the city receives another $1 in NVTA 30 funding. We can then use that $2 as local match to $2 in revenue sharing funding. So the city starts with $1 in CNI

and ends up with $4 for transportation funding. Happy to answer any questions.

Catherine ReadAre there any questions for Mr. Martinez from the dais? All right. I will open the public hearing. advertised yes

Melissa Shinaberryclerkby voiceit has no one signed up prior to the meeting to speak on this general or this public hearing item is there anybody on that is in the audience would like to speak on this certain public hearing item

Catherine Readall right seeing none I will close the public hearing no council action will be taken tonight council will will consider on May 6 2025 our

Melissa Shinaberryclerkby voicenext public hearing is on ordinance amending chapter 102 article 2 section 102-31 imprints b of the code of the city of fairfax virginia to increase the wastewater utility rate by 6.0 percent for fy 26. i'll recognize jc martinez chief financial officer to provide the staff presentation thank

JC Martinezstaffyou mayor council once again in conjunction with the city's financial advisors and consulting engineers a wastewater utility multi-year financial and capital planning analysis has been developed primary goal of the analysis is to create a comprehensive cash flow planning model taking into account existing and projected operating in capital needs while minimizing rate increases for existing customers based on the analysis staff recommends that use a rate increase of 6% in the city's uh wastewater utility the city raised rates 10 percent in fy 2014 through fy 2020 8 percent in fy 21 and 6 percent from fy 22 through fy 25. increased residential and commercial wastewater user rates are required to fund the city's increasing costs associated with its aging

infrastructure within the city and to cover its share of expenditures associated with the operation of and the capital improvements at the Nomen coal wastewater treatment plant. The city contracted for 6.27 percent capacity in the plant which is owned and operated by Fairfax County. Major plant upgrades are necessitated by stringent federal regulations designed to improve wastewater treatment and quality. The critical plant construction and renovation projects needed to replace and improve in aging infrastructure. The proposed 6% rate increase would impact user fees as follows as listed in the staff report. The increased user fees are expected to increase wastewater utility revenues by almost $600,000. The quarterly financial impact

to residents, customers consuming a typical volume equal about 14,000 gallons is about ten dollars and 53 cents per quarter happy to answer any questions are

Catherine Readthere any questions for mr. Martinez from the dice seeing none I will open the public hearing machine of areas this public hearing been advertised yes

Melissa Shinaberryclerkby voiceit has no one has signed up for this public hearing I am to speak on is there anybody that would like to speak on this public hearing item

Catherine Readokay seeing none I will close the public hearing no council action will be taken tonight council on May 6, 2025.

Melissa Shinaberryclerkby voiceOur next public hearing is on an ordinance submitting a chapter 102, Article 5, Section 102-203, M-Parens B, of the Code of the City of Fairfax, Virginia, to set the rate for stormwater utility service furnished by the city at $34.30 per BU, M-Parens billing unit, a 6.0% increase. I'll recognize JC Martinez, Chief Financial Officer, to provide the staff presentation.

JC MartinezstaffThank you, Mayor, Council. The city's stormwater utility fund initial rate was $28.80 per billable unit, also known as BU, and was set at a time when the stormwater utility was created on December 14, 2021. This action is to set the rate at $34.30 per BU, or a 6% rate increase, for calendar year beginning January 1, 2025. user fees are expected to generate stormwater utility revenue of approximately 3.2 million dollars or an increase of about a hundred and eighty three thousand dollars of note we do issue stormwater credit credits and on average that's about a hundred and thirty thousand dollars per year happy to answer any questions are

Catherine Readthere any questions of mr. Martinez from the dais seeing none I will open the public hearing the Shinneberry is this public hearing been advertised yes

Melissa Shinaberryclerkby voiceit has no one has signed up prior to the meeting is there anybody on they would like to speak on this agenda item

Catherine Readseeing none I will close the public hearing no council action will be taken tonight council consideration on May 6 2025 our

Melissa Shinaberryclerkby voicelast public hearing item is on an ordinance amending chapter 90 in parents taxation article 6 in parents tax on meals section 90 dash 262 of the code of the city of Fairfax pertaining to the levy on meals i'll recognize jc martinez chief financial officer to provide the staff presentation

JC Martinezstaffthank you mayor council once more once section 90-262 of the city code currently provides a 4 percent meals tax the proposed ordinance would increase the amount of the meals tax to six percent as set forth in the city manager's recommended fy 2026 budget the effective date of this change would be July 1, 2025. The previous meals tax change was from 2% to 4% in 2004 or 21 years ago. An increase to the meals tax reduces the financial burden on residents as the meals tax can offset the need for higher real estate tax, real estate taxes due to visitors and non-residents paying this tax. Deletions to the current language are shown as strike throughs and additions are double underlined as text in the staff report. The 2% proposed increase

generate about an additional 4.4 million dollars in meals tax revenues each 1% generates about 2.2 million dollars this change would result in a tax increase of approximately one dollar to a $50 meal happy to answer any questions are

Catherine Readthere questions for mr. Martinez on this item seeing none I will open the public hearing mission of areas is public hearing been advertised yes

Melissa Shinaberryclerkby voiceit has and I had people sign up prior to the meeting to speak I'm gonna call the Henderson to come forward.

Sabrina Hendersonpublic commentGood evening Mayor, City Council, and fellow community members. My name is Sabrina Henderson. My family has owned PJ Skidoo's restaurant here in Fairfax City. My father, Cosmos Bells, has been a business owner in Fairfax City since 1970. He originally owned the Black Baron restaurant and converted it to PJ Skidoo's in 1978. This restaurant is other child. He loves this business more than me at times. He is 86 years old and still comes in six days a week. He's an immigrant from Greece traveling alone to the US at the age of 11 to escape poverty and find a better life. Over the years he has owned grocery stores and restaurants. He's seen it all. I'm here today to express my strong opposition to the opposed 2% meals tax increase. PJ

Skidoo's is a generational family business. My cousin Dimitri, who's here tonight, some of you may know him as Taki, also owns part of the business with my dad, and I left my corporate job over 12 years ago to come help my family restaurant. This is our livelihood. PJ Skidoo's has been a part of this community for over 45 years, currently employing 72 employees. We want to continue to be a part of this community for years to come. The restaurant industry has faced wave after wave of challenges, rising food costs. The last three years, food costs have increased 30 to 40 percent. You see it for yourselves in the grocery stores. Labor shortages, higher wages, supply chain issues, and a customer base that's become more cautious

with their spending. A two percent increase may not sound like much, but for us, it's another obstacle that will push customers away and tighten our already thin margins. Yes, the tax is paid for by the customer, but make no mistakes, it's small businesses like ours that feel the consequences. We're the ones who deal with the fallout, the slower nights, the empty tables, the difficult about staffing and hours, this proposed tax increase is a death sentence to restaurants. Business is already drastically down. You will see more and more restaurants closing, and how much revenue loss will that be for the city? This is not the time to stress the restaurant industry even more with this excessive and exclusive tax. We have always prided ourselves

on being an affordable meal option for our community, but that isn't the case anymore. We've been forced to raise our prices in order to cover our growing expenses. When customers see checks, whether it's from increased cost or higher tax, it does affect their behavior. They dine out less, they order less, they tip less, and they choose cheaper options. Sometimes they may even go somewhere else entirely, maybe even a neighboring town where the meals tax is lower or non-existent. That drop in spending directly impacts our sales, our staff's earnings, and our ability to stay afloat. We're not asking for special treatment. We're simply asking that you truly consider the effects of this decision. A 2%

meal tax increase will chip away at the trust and affordability we have worked so hard to build with our community. It puts us at a competitive disadvantage. Please don't put another burden on small restaurants trying to make it in the city. We're not just any local business. We're a part of the heart and culture that makes Fairfax City unique. Please don't make it harder for restaurants to survive. Support us if we have supported you in the city for so many years. Thank you for your time and We have quite a few signatures petitioning against this, so do I hand them in to you? Okay.

Melissa Shinaberryclerkby voiceOur next speaker is Bill Hamrock.

Catherine ReadI appreciate your enthusiasm, really I do, but if we could just maintain some decorum in the chamber, I would appreciate it.

Bill Hamrockpublic commentHello, thank you for having me. My name is Bill Hamrock, and I'm the owner of Hamrock's Restaurant and Kelly's Oyster House right in the city. I'm going to start with two reference points. I was leaving Hamrock's tonight, just earlier this afternoon. I told my server, Beatrix, where I was going. I told her what it was about. Initial response immediate was, oh, my God, people ask us all the time how much our taxes are. Second, when I opened Hamrock's in 2016, speaking with the city, it was no, no, no. no you can't have a sign no that sign is too big no you could can't put a sign there the sign where we're actually facing the street 2016 since that time I have found the city to be extremely helpful improved and supporting thank you

for that it is much appreciated Chris Brent Chris Bruno and his staff are great he was a huge addition with the staff and everything they are doing police, fire, city offices treasurer's office I found to be helpful I can call them, I can approach them when I go I can talk to someone I get answers, they listen I'm wrong, they tell me I'm wrong and they let me know how it can be fixed I found it to be very helpful okay, meals tax, please don't do this with this increase, tax is going to be viewed as 12%. It's not a 2% increase. Customer gets the check, they see an additional 12%. Okay, they don't notice the 2%, they see 12%. Customers don't give us a break on that. We become more expensive. As of now, Fairfax County does not have a meal tax. With Fairfax County not having a meal

tax. We shouldn't be here talking about it. This is a drastic increase on us. 6% more than our competitors a mile and a half away. 75% of our business comes from outside the business. You guys already said that. What if they stop coming? We will be known as most expensive. This will hurt. Some will not come. That will definitely happen. 12% onto the total check, 6% more than Fairfax County it's drastic it's not fared we're not competitive that shouldn't be considered however part two it sounds like Fairfax City the Fairfax County will have the mails meals tax you know it's not done yet but they are working on it it may happen chances are it's going to happen even with Fairfax County getting the meal stacks their meal stacks will be three or four percent

probably okay if it's four percent they're even with us if we go up an We are still most expensive. Is it just 2% more? No, we are most expensive. People will see the increase. It will hurt us. Most expensive is not good. It will scare people away. When restaurants lose business, they go out of business. Please don't do this. Please don't hurt our businesses. Appreciate your time. Thank you.

Melissa Shinaberryclerkby voiceOur next speaker is Randy Barnett.

Randy Barnettpublic commentGood evening, everybody. I want to thank you for everything you do for the city. I won't be as eloquent as Sabrina. That was amazing. I do have some talking points. I'm not a great public speaker. but it really is a lot of the same you've already heard. We are in an industry that is getting really pinched right now. Everything you go out to is more expensive. Everything you just hear about inflation is about food, whether it's grocery stores or restaurants. Sales are already down. If they're up or even, it's because price is increasing. We're having to increase our prices to meet those demands. as was just mentioned somebody wants to go down a mile out to Fairfax Corner they're already 4% cheaper

don't make them 6% cheaper if they want to go to Mosaic they're cheaper it's already a challenge to get people to come to the city traffic, traffic lights parking, even though the parking is so much better than everybody believes all those reasons in the city. We need incentives to bring them here. Over the last few years, inflation, inflation, inflation, all our prices have gone up. What my burger used to be is not what my burger is now. So the meals tax revenue has to already be going up significantly. I don't envy the position you all are in. But there seems to be an ability to look harder at expenditures instead of taking the easy route out to higher taxes, please. I looked up some of the other regions, other towns, because that's where the pinch is,

right, on the towns, what their other meals tax are. Vienna, go down the street to Vienna, 3%. Go to Herndon, 3.75%. Manassas, 4%. Haymarket, 4%. Prince William County, one of the ones with the county tax, 4%. We will be the highest meals tax in northern Virginia, and I believe, by statute the highest it can be at 6%. I would just say that where the meals tax can be voted on it gets roundly rejected by the county. The county got the legislature to change the rules and they will probably roll it out. It will result in reduced dining out. It will result in hitting middle-income and lower-income families more than others. It targets an industry that is already just being pinched more than any other industry out there.

At least I think so. We're already starting to lose some people, right? We just lost herbs. We just lost Habibite. There's others out there that are just holding on, right? try to keep the people there let's try to keep our businesses here and get our revenue through the volume not through the percentage thank you

Melissa Shinaberryclerkby voiceour next speaker Cyrus Coleman

Cyrus Colemanpublic commenthi mayor and council members i'm the owner of doce vita italian kitchen and wine bar in elise restaurant here in fairfax i appreciate the opportunity to speak with you today um yeah i mean just what most people are saying this is going to put us at a competitive disadvantage there's no other local municipality with a six percent meals tax we are constantly competing with Fairfax corner mosaic to you know bring people to our restaurants I also sit on the restaurant committee restaurant we committee with fairfax city and we've worked extremely hard to make fairfax city a restaurant destination and there's no this is gonna impact that all that work seems the common trend with some of the restaurants is that we are

we're down we are already losing traffic to our restaurants in the city and this will tremendously impact that just to reiterate Brianna three percent Alexandria five percent Manassas four percent Arlington four percent I got here a little early because of the time I didn't realize it started at seven and committee there and listening to the Sherwood project I I'm not a city resident I'm sure that project is would be amazing for city residents but if I ran my business like that project I would be out of business and so to increase meals tax to help support a project like that if that's the case it just doesn't make sense and to also read I knew the restaurants are challenged right now we we are getting the burden of inflation we are already raising our

prices, this is not going to help me. So I would encourage you all to vote against this proposal and find another way to raise the money. So thank you for your time. Appreciate it.

Melissa Shinaberryclerkby voiceOur next speaker is Bridget Fonseca.

Speaker 21Mayor, council, thank you. I'm Bridget Fonseca. Over there is Amanda and Rose. We're an all-woman and all-George Mason alumni owners of Patriots Pub and Grill. Patriots have been in the city and making fresh food since 1996, 30 years next year. We are members of the Central Fabrics Chamber of Commerce. My concern with this 50% meal increase is that no restaurant has actually recovered financially since COVID. The prices of food have skyrocketed. We just had to increase food prices to compensate for our ever-rising overhead. We appreciate the city prides themselves in supporting small businesses with Restaurant Week and the extension of Restaurant Week, Small Business Saturday, Small Business Month.

But this tax does not support small businesses. According to a report from Fairfax Times, this tax will directly increase the cost of meals, which will make families and individuals less included to go out to eat. This will result in the closure of more small businesses. When Patriots was observing relocation options in 2018, we decided to stay in the city due to the importance of small business success. especially because of support from the chamber. The city does not need more loss and division. We need restaurants to continue to provide a safe haven for inclusivity and family love. I have 156 people petitions here, if I may.

AnnastaffThank you.

Melissa Shinaberryclerkby voiceOur next speaker is Josh Alexander.

Josh Alexanderpublic commentGood evening, Mayor and City Council. Thank you all for being here and dealing with all of this. I know how I'm doing, but I also know how a lot of my friends are doing in this business and they're some struggling folks. and a closed business, a closed restaurant generates 0% meals tax. And they might hack it out for another couple years, but when the lease is up, I can tell you they are leaving. They're packing it up and they're going. Everyone's very tired. A lot of my friends are still living off of COVID money, and it finished up last year. It's coming. Zero percent doesn't help anybody. Let's just keep it at four. Thank you.

Melissa Shinaberryclerkby voiceOur next speaker is Jennifer Rose.

Jennifer Rosepublic commentGood evening, Mayor. It was tough for me to pick which public hearing to speak in, so consulting with the city clerk, we threw me in here, but I'm going to be covering all the topics this evening. Again, on behalf of the Central Fairfax Chamber, we thank you for your ongoing commitment to the city's economic health. You do not have easy decisions to make. I do not envy you. As you know, the chamber represents a diverse array of businesses that are the backbone of the community's prosperity, And we value this opportunity to share our perspective as you finalize your budget. Earlier today, I did send you a more detailed statement. You probably haven't seen it yet because you've been in work session.

But I wanted to publicly reiterate a couple of points. Your budget's resilience on reliance, excuse me, on increasing the real estate tax rate, meals tax, utility fees are going to have a direct and negative impact on small businesses and economic development in Fairfax City. These measures risk undermining years of progress in making our city a regional destination for entrepreneurship, innovation, and, of course, dining. We urge the council to reconsider the current approach and instead focus on reducing tax and fee rates to alleviate the financial burden on those small businesses. Rather than seeking new revenue through higher taxes and fees, you have been, and we are appreciative that you have been reviewing city spending and really look towards those meaningful cuts.

efficiencies. They are there. You can find them. This approach will help ensure the city's fiscal health without sacrificing the competitiveness and viability of the local business community. Our small businesses are resilient, but they cannot continue to absorb the ever-increasing costs without consequence. The proposed budget as currently structured sends the wrong message to entrepreneurs and investors who are considering coming to the city as a place to do business. So please demonstrate your support for economic development by rejecting tax and fee increases and making the hard choices to control spending. I appreciate your consideration of this. And as I was listening to the restaurants, one of the restaurant owners actually asked

me earlier, how many businesses have closed in the last couple of years? And I just started thinking about the restaurants. Off the top of my head, I can think of probably eight restaurants in the city of Fairfax that have closed in the last two to three years. Another restaurateur asked me how many new restaurants have opened to replace them. It's not eight. Thank you.

Melissa Shinaberryclerkby voiceIs there anybody else in the room that would like to speak on this agenda item? On the meals tax? Yeah. Okay.

Doug Coxpublic commentGood evening. My name is Doug Cox, 3916 Fairview Drive. I've listened in to these proprietors. You know, I saw this in the council reporter, 2% meal tax, and I thought, you've got to be kidding me. When I was a kid, my dad said, if you like a local business, patronize local business so that they're always there. Now as a city resident, what I'm hearing is there's potential 2% tax rate. I know, $1 on every 50. See, I go out, nice dinner, $100 with a friend or two, Now I'm out two bucks. I know, not a killer in the grand scheme of things, it seems. But why as a resident am I being penalized for patronizing a local business? I mean, that's the way I feel with this. You're going to penalize me 2% because I want to give my business to a local vendor,

a local restaurateur. Give them a break. All right, again, I came up here before, almost 30% in the last three years. would be 40% tax increase on my real estate. It includes stormwater at 6% increase year over year. I'm paying a lot. Most people that come to these Fairfax restaurants, I guarantee you, are Fairfax City residents. Don't penalize us. Don't penalize them because I want to see those places when I'm hungry and feel like going out. I don't want to go to Mosaic. I want to go to Fairfax City. I happen to like a lot of these places I hope they're around. Don't do this tax, please. Thank you.

Melissa Shinaberryclerkby voiceIs there anybody else in the room that would like to speak on this agenda item?

Nicholas Lawrencepublic commentYeah, I'm David Geller

David Gellerpublic commentfrom Derby Street. My parents had a restaurant a long time ago, and so I kind of know what it's like to run. I mean, I didn't really work there, but I would hang out. and I just think if we want the city to just in general for businesses we have to make it economical we have to encourage businesses to thrive here and one way you do that is you keep the taxes low I mean it's as simple as that I realize it's the businesses aren't paying the taxes directly it's the customers but the customers will end up staying away I mean it's maybe a small fraction just like you said it's not a huge amount of money but they will I and all these little struggling restaurants will have a much harder time of it.

And I really like the restaurants. I really think they're great. And I think we need to encourage them. We need to encourage all businesses. But you can't do that by raising the rates. And I know earlier I've been talking about my own personal thing about the real estate tax. The thing is we have to figure out how to spend less. I mean, I just think it's as simple as that. I mean, you know, you can tax the tree, you can tax everything, but that's just not going to help everyday life in our city. It's just not. And these businesses, we want them to thrive, and obviously, as you heard today from the actual providers, this ain't going to help. So thank you.

Melissa Shinaberryclerkby voiceIs there anybody else in the room that would like to speak on this agenda item?

Catherine Readseeing none I will close the public hearing no council action will be taken tonight council consideration on May 6 2025 we

Melissa Shinaberryclerkby voicewill move on to general public comment I have a couple people who signed up prior to the meeting our first speaker is Tom Ross

Thomas Rosspublic commentGood evening, Mayor and Council. Tom Ross, long-term resident of Fairfax City, over 40 years, residing at 3520 Country Hill Drive in the city of Fairfax. Earlier tonight you took action on item 4a on the agenda which was added at the last minute. I am deeply, deeply disappointed with this action and ask that you seriously give consideration to reconsideration. It was done at the last minute. It was done without an opportunity for public comment. It was done without an opportunity for a public hearing. And it was done as though you were worried about what you might hear. Very, very disappointed. About six weeks ago, I sent all of you a message on the George Snyder Trail. And I was planning to speak at your council meeting,

but got slightly waylaid by an ambulance ride to Fair Oaks Hospital which kept me out of action that night until recently. So tonight let me intend what I have to say even though this may be after the horse has left the barn as they say. There are many in our community who oppose paved trails because they impact some of our natural areas of the community and I understand that. I understood it when I was on council when I was sitting where you are. There's no question that the Snyder Trail and others will have impacts on our natural world, which I and others in the community believe can be addressed through environmental restoration and have been so planned. However, there are others in the community who feel equally strongly about an interconnected system of trails,

some paved, that provide access to all ages and abilities. I feel strongly that we both can do both, protect the environment and create an interconnected system that serves all of our population both now and for the future. That is why I supported those trails projects as a citizen, as a member of city council. So of countless other citizens, community leaders, boards, commissions, and others that have provided input. it. I believe we have an obligation to consider why previous decisions were made to support these projects and the benefits they will bring to our community in the long run. I believe we can accomplish both, protect and preserve our natural areas and at the same time allow for public access and participation in healthy activities. I believe the plans

that were developed have done just that. Today is Earth Day, and I consider myself a conservationist. For almost 30 years, I served with the National Park Service overseeing a range of programs that addressed local conservation and recreation needs. In that capacity, we worked with communities throughout the nation to find a balance between public use and protection, creating trail and recreation systems that benefit both the citizens that reside there and the natural resources that are important to all. I honestly believe and have believed we had an but now that has gone by the boards. I encourage you again to reconsider the actions you've taken tonight. There is a great opportunity to create an opportunity in this community

for an interconnected system of trails that provides access and opportunities to all citizens in the city. Please consider that. Thank you.

Melissa Shinaberryclerkby voiceOur next speaker is Philip LaTassa.

Philip LaTassapublic commentI speak tonight representing the Friends of Aquitaine Creek. The Friends of Aquitaine Creek always advocate for the principle of making our streets safe for people before we make our forests safe for pavement. We therefore thank the council very much for your resolution pausing the George Schneider Trail for reconsideration. We therefore also commend the newly described proposal for a route linking Eaton Place, University Drive, and Fairfax Boulevard. Such a route would complete the vision of improved east-west non-motorized connections while sparing our last precious woods and wetlands. We commend the Council also for the action taken this evening to pause the Pickett Road Connector Trail, a redundant duplication of existing connections.

Thank you.

Melissa Shinaberryclerkby voiceOur next speaker is Michael Fabio.

Mike Fabiopublic commentI am Mike Fabio, 3920, Cambridge Road, and I also would like you to reconsider your recent trail proposal decisions. Trails are treasures to be passed down from generation to generation. City Councils, comprehensive plans, and have recognized this for years and developed the plan and a strategy to fund the plan. I was looking forward to the day I could take a walk with my grandchildren from Old Town Park and Country Club Hills to the George Snyder Trail. That dream seems to be coming to an end. How did these good ideas get so bad so quickly? Getting from point A to point B is only half the equation. The journey must be safe, accessible for all, and pleasant. The proposed alterations to the plan deny us that journey and thrust us onto busy highways.

The vision has always been to have these trails off-road. The Nationals Run Trail is the best example of that. Forests and trails enjoy a symbiotic relationship. We can't have a trail without a forest, but the forest can't be enjoyed without a trail. A trail is a walk in the woods. A trail along a major highway is a sidewalk. We need recreational trails. trails. The Country Club connector trail would allow the Country Club Hills neighborhood to have a pleasant short walk to the Snyder Trail. Conversely, it would provide Mosby Woods a fantastic access to the rest of the city. The environmental impact is low to moderate. It is funded. Get it planned. Get it done. The key idea of the North Fax Small Area Plan

vision was to bridge the divide between North Fax and Mosby Woods, connecting both communities Tink Creek. A linear park and trails provided by the developers would terminate in the Snyder Trail. This will no longer be possible with a trail redesign. It's planned. It's approved. It's funded. Get it done. The present Pickett Road Connector is the safest route because it's off-road. It's short, has low to moderate impact, and connects to Metro, Prosperity Ave, and the cross-county trail. It's planned, it's approved, it's funded, get it done. In these times of raising taxes, it seems unreasonable to give back any of the $41 million of hard-won funding that has been awarded to these trails. Every month you delay raises the price tag for our

taxpayers, and everyone here has complained about raising taxes. You, my friends, are raising our Thank you.

Melissa Shinaberryclerkby voiceOur next speaker is Patrick Walker.

Patrick Walkerpublic commentSorry about jumping in there earlier. I was pretty eager to talk. I'm not entirely familiar with all the jargon associated with these meetings. And as such, that kind of represents me. Patrick Walker, resident of 1009 Spring Lake Terrace in the Country Club Hills community, is someone who's just kind of a neighbor, not someone who wants to get in anybody's way, and definitely not someone originally who was against anything that would resemble a trail being paved. I've lived in Country Club Hills for almost eight years now. And in the first few years, I thought how great of an idea it would be to have a paved trail through those woods residents could get to the other side on Fairfax Boulevard.

Since 2017, though, four years ago, I walked down my driveway to see someone passed out on the sidewalk right in front of my property called Fairfax Police Department. They said this is a normal occurrence because they come, quote-unquote, through the woods. Fast forward two years later, I get home, and this is a personal note, to find that was on a walk along Spring Lake Terrace, which parallels the woods that separates Fairfax Boulevard and Spring Lake Terrace, where this trail would be paved. And someone had followed, harassed, and scared her and sexually harassed her until she ran home on her own. I said, well, where the hell is this guy? She said, I watched him come through the woods. right out by where they have the books,

which is exactly where the trail would have ended up. So on that note, I understand that this can be a journey for many, but it's been a journey already through the more intrepid individuals, transient individuals, homeless or not, drug-willed or not, I don't know. But these types of individuals would have a much easier journey just by going through that trail. So in this personal and rather selfish note, will always be against this particular trail CCH connector trail connecting to our neighborhood thank you

Melissa Shinaberryclerkby voiceis there anybody else I would like to make a general public comment

Susan Kylerpublic commentGood evening. My name is Susan Kyler. I live in Cambridge Station. I want to thank you all for taking the design concept for the George Snyder Trail, which meets the criteria, by the way, for which the money was awarded, to VDOT for consideration. I also want to thank you for canceling the Country Club Hills Trail, which is widely something that is widely opposed by the people who live in the area. And I want to thank you also for pausing the Pickett Road Trail connector, because there's some parallel ones. Even the county has said at one point during a meeting attended by the mayor that why are this when there's a trail of stone's throw away. So I'm really pleased that you paused that trail for reconsideration and to look for other design options that would provide

access. So thank you very much. I know you have a hard job. I also want to thank you for looking at the budget and spending those long hours trying to figure out where we can cut in order to avoid tax increases. Thank you.

Katie Johnsonpublic commentI just wanted to say thank you very much for considering alternative alignments. We also truly, truly believe in a connected city that is walkable and bikeable and I feel like looking at realignments that can achieve both are very possible and thank you for taking that action tonight. Is there anybody else in the room that would like to speak

Melissa Shinaberryclerkby voiceon general public okay we will move forward to the consent agenda

Catherine Readis there a motion to approve the consent agenda councilmember

Stacey Hardy-ChandlerHardy Chandler I move adoption of a consent agenda for agenda item number 7a consideration of the May 25 2025 regular meeting minutes agenda item number 7b consideration of the April 1, 2025 special meeting minutes. Agenda item number 7C, consideration of the April 8, 2025 regular meeting minutes. Agenda item number 7D, consideration of an award of construction contract to Sagres Construction Corporation in the estimated amount of $4,117,611 for the intersection improvements at the McLean Avenue, warwick avenue fairfax boulevard intersection agenda item number 7e introduction of an appropriation resolution for the general capital wastewater transit storm water cable old town and transportation tax funds for the fy26 budget year i move to approve the consent agenda items

number 7a through e and the motion accompanying the consent agenda item as printed

Catherine Readis there a second

Speaker 38There is a second, however, I would like to pull items D and E out of the consent agenda.

Catherine ReadOkay. We will cite item 7D and E will be removed for discussion. A roll call vote on the consent agenda minus these items.

Melissa Shinaberryclerkby voiceCouncil Member McQuillan? Aye. Council Member Bates? Aye. Council Member Peterson? Aye. Council Member Hardy-Chandler? Aye. Council Member Hall? Aye. Council Member Amos? Aye. Motion passed unanimously. So item 7D is a consideration reward of construction contract to Sagres Construction Corporation in the estimated amount of four million one hundred seventeen thousand six hundred eleven dollars for intersection improvements at the McLean Avenue Warwick Avenue Fairfax Boulevard intersection. I'll recognize Wendy Stanford for the staff report. Okay, thank you

Wendy SanfordstaffThe item before you as the clerk mentioned is the consideration of an award of a construction contract for intersection improvements at the McLean Avenue, Warwick Avenue, Fairfax Boulevard intersection. This project is a significant project. This is taking a very complicated intersection, simplifying it, adding pedestrian accommodations. As part of this we will be adding a new traffic signal also at Far Avenue and Fairfax Boulevard. The city has been working on this project for a number of years. The city has smart scale funding to complete this project we have we recently put this project out to bid the bids came in under estimate so we were are within our estimate within our engineers estimate

for construction and so the city has approximately ten million dollars in funding for this and again this project is within budget and also our capital project manager Sonny Sarna is here if you have additional questions are

Catherine Readthere Councilmember Peterson

Speaker 38and I asked for this just for sake of clarity because of a lack of familiarity so I appreciate the additional clarity that you provided but also because I'm not familiar with public perspectives on this and just want to check and see whether there have been any significant public concerns around this and if there have whether they've been addressed and how but essentially just to check again out of lack of familiarity with this because I project.

Wendy SanfordstaffSo this project, I'm recalling when this we had the two-year program and this project was even included and the property owners at those corners did come to us and express the concern just about the functionality of that intersection. There was public engagement. There was all of the engagement with all of the property owners. There was outreach particularly with the owner of the Baskin Robbins and that property owner and then the Kia dealership and then the printing company. And there were comments that came from the neighborhood and from these owners. Everything has been addressed. There's been it's this project has been relatively Has been positively received, but I would also defer to Sonny or mr. Summers if there's any additional comments they would like to add

Catherine ReadAre there any additional questions? My

Speaker 38only comment to add is that This is one of the more interesting intersections in the city as I recall so I know you're trying to deal with

Wendy SanfordstaffIt's a difficult intersection. It's a multi-leg intersection. It's confusing. It also causes congestion on Route 50 because of the many legs of the intersection. So this is simplifying it, converting it to a really more traditional four-legged intersection, and then again adding another signal. And that new signal is also going to help with North Fax West, that new roadway that was just constructed. It's going to add a signalized access. So we'll be breaking the median on Fairfax Boulevard in that location for that new signal. assist the neighborhood south of Fairfax Boulevard in that location to get out making a left and instead of utilizing the the main intersection they can come to the new signal at Far Avenue and make a left there should be a map of the of

the project in your I

Stacy Hallwas actually going to ask if moving forward we could have like a link or something to the

Wendy Sanfordstaffwe had okay I'm sorry we moving forward that should have been included there was a I thought there was a one-page summary of that we had posted no okay we will make sure to get that to you

Rachel McQuillenI will

Wendy Sanfordstaffmake sure you have that there is the information about the project is also posted on the city website and I can follow up tomorrow with a with a diagram of the intersection

Speaker 38one more question I don't have them at but I believe there's a car dealership kind of in the middle of all this that's correct is the improvement here anticipating the potential for there to be any shift in the occupancy around that area in case for instance the car dealership was to decide to move where somebody else might because again it's a kind of an interesting collection of things at this intersection

Speaker 29so there is a pending land-use application involving that car dealership which will be coming to council at some point so that's separate issue but Yes, it's all kind of intertwined

Catherine ReadThank you Any other questions Is there a motion to Vote on 7d

Speaker 29Yeah, we need a motion on the floor for 7d back last page of staff report

Stacey Hardy-Chandleryes

Catherine Reada council member hardy-chandler

Stacey Hardy-ChandlerI moved to authorize the purchasing agent to award construction contract in the estimated amount of four million one hundred and seventeen thousand six hundred and eleven dollars to sacred construction corporation for intersection improvements at McLean Avenue Warwick Avenue Fairfax Boulevard intersection is

Catherine Readthere a second second a motion has been made by council member Hardy Chandler and seconded by councilmember Peterson a roll call vote

Melissa Shinaberryclerkby voicecouncilmember Amos Councilmember Hall?

Catherine ReadAye.

Melissa Shinaberryclerkby voiceCouncilmember Hardy-Chandler? Aye. Councilmember Peterson?

Billy BatesAye.

Melissa Shinaberryclerkby voiceCouncilmember Bates?

Billy BatesAye.

Melissa Shinaberryclerkby voiceCouncilmember McQuillan? Aye. Motion passed unanimously. Go to 7E, which is an introduction of an appropriation resolutions for the general capital wastewater transit, stormwater cable, Old Town, transportation tax, depth service, and American Rescue Plan Act, in print ARPA funds for the FY26 budget year. I'll recognize JC Martinez for the staff report.

JC MartinezstaffThank you. Mayor, council, as a city clerk just mentioned, this is just an introduction of an appropriations resolution which is needed for the general capital wastewater transit stormwater utility cable Old Town transportation tax debt service and the American Rescue Plan Act funds in order to implement the FY 2026 budget. The amounts contained on the staff report are pending approval of the final FY 2026 budget adoption as we're working through this process we will have a budget adjustment worksheet which will show all the debits and the credits and the changes to the final appropriation which will be voted on on budget adoption night May 6 happy to answer any questions

Catherine Readcouncilmember Peterson well

Speaker 38thank you I think again it was for clarity here and part of it is procedural and if I understand it correctly this is pending approval of the budget so the details are subject to that is that correct

Speaker 29yes so the the parallel the corollary that I would give you is it's the same as the meals tax it's the same these are all advertised maximums in this case these are the numbers that are reflected in the city managers budget and then just so you can act on them night of the budget they need to be introduced and then you'll The hearing in action on budget night

Catherine ReadOkay, thank you any other questions on this item Okay seeing none. Is there a motion for item 7e councilmember Hardy Chandler a

Stacey Hardy-Chandlermove Introduct a move introduction of the appropriation resolutions for the general capital wastewater transit stormwater utility cable old town transportation tax debit debt service and arpa funds for the fiscal year beginning july 1 2025. i further move to waive the first reading and set the public hearing for may 6 2025.

Catherine Readis there a second second a motion has been made by council member hardy chandler and seconded by councilmember peterson a roll call vote

Melissa Shinaberryclerkby voicecouncilmember mcquillen aye councilmember bates aye councilmember peterson Aye. Councilmember Hardy-Chandler? Aye. Councilmember Hall? Aye. Councilmember Amos? Aye. Motion passed unanimously.

Catherine ReadOkay. We will now take a five-minute recess to go into the work session in the workroom. open open open open open open open open open open open open open open open open open open open open open open open open open open open open open open open open open open open open open open open open open open open open Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. All right then. Welcome back to the work session room and to our work session. And the first item is Shinneberry.

Melissa Shinaberryclerkby voiceIt's a discussion on the FY 2025 quarterly financial review I'm going to recognize Gwen Riddle budget director to give the staff presentation

Gwen Riddlestaffmayor members of council I'm here tonight to present the city's third quarter financial review for fiscal year 2025 the quarterly review process is designed to update and inform city council on the city's financial position and to identify and recommend funding priorities for council consideration budget reviews are presented to city councils on a quarterly basis the following review and update to the FY25 forecast based on information available as of March 31st, 2025. This first slide shows the reviews and financial steps throughout the fiscal year. As you can see the first four have already been completed including first and second quarter financial reviews, presentation of the FY24 ACFER and fall supplemental appropriations. After tonight we'll be

looking to adopt the FY26 budget and the associated tax rates and levies. The spring supplemental requests have been pushed back a few weeks with approval now slated for June 10th. At the time of our review we did not see any significant changes in actuals for FY25. Therefore we're still projecting a shortfall of about 1.4 million. Total revenues are about 3.2% or 5.8 million to budget. As a reminder, the main drivers are increases in real estate assessments, accounting for $2.6 million, an additional $1.3 million forecasted for state schooling, approximately $700,000 in additional investment earnings, and about $500,000 for personal property tax. The primary driver for the 4% or $7.2 million increase in expenses is the

anticipated increases in the school tuition payment with Fairfax County Public Schools. shortfall can be covered by covered in FY25 by utilizing funds in the budget stabilization fund we will discuss this more on this topic later in the presentation so at this time I will turn the presentation over to Christine Johnston real estate assessment director for the next couple slides thank you

Christine Johnstonstaffand good evening so the the next several slides are just a comparison of where year March of last year and as of the end of March and then the end of March this year so if you look at the bars on either end of the of the bar graph chart that that's a comparison so we're very close as far as active lift listings the next slide is sale price compared to list price so you see it's it's sort of up and down and it just depends on houses that are selling a lot of times it's how how renovated they've been prior to the sale so and that it and that is just showing the you know the average next slide please okay so now we're just looking at you know days on the market in an average so it is increasing a

little bit which indicates a little bit of a market slowdown however you see sort of the up and down and it that also can be predicted by the time of the year that things are selling things oftentimes in January you'll see a slump but and that's where you see that peak there and then the primary mortgage rates we look at those because that is also an indicator of how healthy the and also how active it may be. So these mortgage rates by Freddie Mac were exported as of April 4th. They have actually increased 20 basis points as of today from that graph. So it remains to be seen what will happen with the Fed over the next several months. Next slide, please. And then on the commercial side, we just look at indicators such as vacancy, rents, asking rents, what's available on the market.

And we're right about where we were last year. So we're not really seeing any indicators in these sectors that vacancy is increasing, and that's usually the first indicator. The second may be that market rents will first stabilize, but then they could actually drop, and we're not seeing that yet. But it is pretty early in the year. So at this point, we're not forecasting any change to the 1-1-26 assessments, what we have already budgeted for. We're thinking that it's going to be relatively flat. very closely and will certainly provide updates as they come become available thank you

Gwen Riddlestaffso this chart provides great detail the revenue members I spoke about earlier one thing to note is that we are forecasting where the state personal property tax relief will be recognized and not where budgeted that's approximately 3.1 million this is a change our auditors have requested also So in collaboration with school superintendent, we've redefined and updated the state school aid, which is made up of both state sales tax and Bakes' school aid. The estimate does incorporate discussions with the commissioner of the revenue who do not have any updated revenue projections. As stated earlier, the main driver of increases to expenses is the projected increase to the school tuition contract with Fairfax County Public Schools.

year's unprecedented increase in the tax bill by 13.71 percent we have increased from the 2024 payment another 8.25 percent which is actually 12.19 percent higher than the budget of 55.8 million the highest increase since 2010 was 7.4 percent in fy 13. city staff along with the mayor school board chair and city school staff met with the fairfax county public schools in late march concerns over the increases and explained how continuing to increase at this rate will cause a challenge for the city. A second meeting to include Fairfax County was proposed and is being scheduled at this time. So the $5 million adjustment reflects the city's contribution to the EDA real estate opportunity fund. Any changes to the accounting of these funds is not reflected in this

report due to the timing of the transactions. Also the small increase in transfers is due to the increase in assessed values providing additional tax revenue for those prospective funds in summary the projected negative variance is 1.4 million for FY25 this slide provides the primary drivers influencing the FY26 projections on the following slide similar to 25 the single largest factor is projected 12.6 million school tuition contract the projection assumes no the real estate tax rate personal property or mails tax rates as you will see on the next slide the projected variance of 11.2 million is equivalent to 13.5 cents on a real estate tax rate when we look at the five-year projection there are a few items to note first the city will not use any unassigned fund

balance to balance the budget in any out year unassigned fund balance will be reserved to be used during a year to pay for an unexpected expense which will appropriations again there are no chain anticipated changes to rates or levies and any increases in revenue is purely due to forecasted appreciation revenues are conservatively projected at about 2% yearly increases the school's tuition contract is projected with a 3% increase beginning in FY 27 and a moderate inflation increases in other areas we will we will continue to monitor and just as needed. So to review, we ended up fiscal year 24 with an 18% or $32.3 million of unassigned fund balance. We are currently estimating a slight reduction in the fund balance of

$600,000 due to the approval of the fall supplemental request, bringing the balance to 17.7% or $31.7 million. This is still 2.7% or $4.8 million over the policy of 15%. the budget stabilization fund during fiscal year 24 gives a city availability to cover unexpected overages in certain areas one a lot one allowed area is a tuition payment tentatively the 1.4 million overage projected for 25 will be covered by the BSF this will reduce the BSF from 2.6 percent to 1.7 percent and a balance of 2.9 million staff will continue to monitor and track revenue expenses throughout the fiscal year and work to ensure the city stays fiscally sound council will continue their discussions on the fyi 26 budget with adoption in may

and again this is chart just provides dates for the fiscal reviews and actions for the remaining of the fiscal year thank you and we're available for any questions you may have

Catherine Readall right are there questions from the dais for ms riddle mr martinez Wow you did such a fantastic job that everything is crystal clear so well detailed no one's got questions it's almost a miracle thank you so much for the update well you know miss Riddle for you this is this was a great presentation all right we will move on

Melissa Shinaberryclerkby voiceour next item is discussion on the proposed FY 26 budget I'll recognize Brian Foster city manager for the

Brian FosterstaffI think I'm going to let Gwen do all the presentations from now on so we can cut down on questions. That was great. Thank you so much. So we're here to continue our discussion on the proposed FY26 budget and the associated tax rates and so forth needed to fund the budget. We've had multiple work sessions. we've answered you've had an opportunity to ask questions of the staff we've gone through the cip fairly in fairly good detail you have asked lots of great questions we've sent out answers i believe to all the questions i think we are now caught up with the with the information that we sent out today and i recognize that perhaps you haven't had a chance to necessarily see all of that correspondence that went out today.

And we have updated the website. We have not, everything except for the most recent questions that I think Council Member McQuillan had sent in are already in budget memo format and on the website, and those answers have been previously sent. And then we were able to answer, I think, the majority of our questions today, if not all of them, and that will be prepared in a budget memo as well be put out on the website so where we are is we have scheduled adoption for May the 6th the goal as we've said throughout this process is for tonight's goal would be to for council to have some type of consensus or at least majority on what you want to see in the budget and the associated tax rates which will allow us to then prepare all of the requisite resolutions and ordinances with the correct

information for your consideration on May the 6th. What we would like to avoid, and this is what I have been told has happened in prior years, is trying to actually do calculations on the dais, if you will, on adoption day from various questions or proposals. so last time we we had a couple of council members council member Bates council member Hall had asked for some some suggested revisions or alternatives to scenarios that we presented and so JC is going to pull that presentation up and we've sent that to you previously I don't think you've had a chance to discuss it but in the interim or since that time council member amos and i believe he's chatted with most of you or all of you um had had asked for um an additional variation or additional

scenario which we've run that as well so the presentation that we that you've seen before with the various scenarios the original scenarios one one through five that we presented are still identified the variations that Council Member Bates suggested, Council Member Hall, and then Council Member Amos. So perhaps a good starting point would just be to briefly look at those and if there was any questions that anybody had and then would, I guess, open up for council discussion or further questions if any of those are sort of where we want to be looking at or working towards or if there's other questions or discussion items. But I thought if that's okay, we would start with the scenarios and the requested alternatives.

So, JC, if you'll just quickly go over. If you'll just start with the first three just very quickly, and then we'll go into the rest of them.

JC MartinezstaffSure, and as the manager spoke and said, so the five original scenarios are still in here in addition to what Council Member Hall and Council Member Bates had done. So very quickly, scenario one is just the city manager's proposed budget, which was presented to council at the end of February. That's sort of the starting point for all the scenarios and where we're working off as a reduction or an addition to. SCENARIO TWO WOULD BE A REDUCTION IN THE REAL ESTATE TAX RATE OF TWO CENTS AND A HALF A PERCENT ON THE MEALS TAX, UTILIZING SOME OF THE EDA REAL ESTATE RESOURCE FUND TO BASICALLY BALANCE IT. AGAIN, SCENARIO THREE IS ANOTHER DECREASE OF TWO CENTS AND ANOTHER

Faiza AlamHALF

JC MartinezstaffA PERCENT ON THE MEALS TAX, NOW REQUIRING ADDITIONAL POTENTIAL EXPENDITURE REDUCTIONS TO SORT OF BALANCE THE BUDGET AGAIN. SCENARIO 4, ORIGINAL SCENARIO 4 IS A 3.5 CENT POTENTIAL PROPOSED INCREASE TO THE CURRENT REAL ESTATE TAX RATE AND A HALF A PERCENT MEALS TAX INCREASE. AGAIN UTILIZING MORE POTENTIAL EXPENDITURE REDUCTIONS THAT ARE LISTED THERE IN RED. WE HAD THE COUNCIL MEMBER BATES SUGGESTED SCENARIO OF THREE AND A HALF CENTS WITH NO CHANGE TO THE MEALS TAX AND ASSOCIATED USE OF THOSE POTENTIAL EXPENDIATURE REDUCTIONS ON THE LEFT THERE OR ON THE RED. I'M GOING TO SKIP OVER COUNCIL MEMBER AMOS REALLY QUICK. SCENARIO 5, THIS WAS THE LAST ORIGINAL SCENARIO 5 ONE, WHICH WAS A 2.5 CENT INCREASE TO THE CURRENT REAL ESTATE TAX RATE, NO CHANGE TO THE MEALS TAX, AND INCORPORATION OF THE FOLLOWING OR THE LISTED IN RED POTENTIAL EXPENDITURE REDUCTIONS.

COUNCIL MEMBER HALL HAD A RECOMMENDED PROPOSED CHANGE TO SCENARIO FIVE WHICH KEPT THE REAL ESTATE TAX RATE AT AN INCREASE OF TWO AND A HALF CENTS NO CHANGE TO THE MEALS TAX UTILIZING THOSE POTENTIAL EXPENDITURE REDUCTIONS IN RED. GIVEN THOSE REDUCTIONS IT WAS ACTUALLY FOUND THAT WE COULD POTENTIALLY REDUCE THE REAL ESTATE TAX EVEN MORE SO AND have a rate increase of 1.75 cents making the potential FY 26 real estate tax rate a dollar four seven five any questions on what was previously discussed and shown if not I'm gonna go to scenario four point one council member Amos which had proposed a three cent increase to the current real estate AND NO CHANGE TO THE MEALS TAX. THAT WOULD PROVIDE SOME REVENUES.

A SLIGHT CHANGE FROM SCENARIO 1, WHICH IS AGAIN THE PROPOSED MANAGER SCENARIO, TO THIS ONE WOULD BE A REDUCTION OF ABOUT $7.7 MILLION IN REVENUES. YET UTILIZATION OF THE LISTED IN RED POTENTIAL EXPENDITURES, SO AGAIN UTILIZING THE FULL AMOUNT FOR THE EDA REAL ESTATE RESOURCE FUND, PREVIOUSLY IDENTIFIED PRIOR CIP APPROPRIATIONS APPLY TO THE SCHOOL BOND, $3 MILLION REQUEST, REDUCING THE MINIMUM CASH TRANSFER FROM THE GENERAL FUND TO THE CIP, UTILIZING THE PROPOSED 5% POLICE REDUCTION THAT WAS PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED BY POLICE IN THE 10% EXERCISE REDUCTION BUT NOT THE WHOLE 10%, JUST THE 5. Utilizing an additional $1 million in the hiring freeze of non-urgent vacancies for an entire year. Reducing travel and training by 420, so not the entire amount.

I think it's 535 was the entire amount, so there's a little left over there. Reducing the Renaissance housing funding by 392, so basically zeroing that out. Adding in additional funding for an efficiency audit. I THINK ONE OF THE COUNCIL MEMBERS BROUGHT THAT UP AS A SUGGESTION AT OUR LAST WORK SESSION, ADDING IN AN ADDITIONAL $118,000 TO FUND SALARY AND FRINGE OF ONE FTE FOR A SPOUT GRANT POSITION, WHICH HAS CURRENTLY GONE UNFUNDED, WHICH WAS PREVIOUSLY COMMUNICATED TO COUNCIL DURING A SATURDAY WORK SESSION OR RETREAT. REDUCING THE NONPROFIT GRANTS BY $100,000, SO NOT THE FULL $300, SO THEY WOULD STILL RECEIVE $200,000. AND THEN DECREASING THE AMOUNT OF THE PROPOSED ANNUAL FEE FOR SENIOR PROGRAMMING FROM $60 TO $15, WHICH WOULD NEGATIVELY

IMPACT OUR PROPOSED REVENUE OF ABOUT $71,000. DOING ALL THAT ON THE LEFT-HAND SIDE THERE, THOSE BULLETTED RED AND BLUE ITEMS WOULD ACTUALLY HAVE A VERY SMALL POSITIVE VARIANCE OF ABOUT $67,000. THIS ADDITIONALLY WOULD ALLOW FOR A 3.5% MERIT TO BE PAID TO ALL GENERAL SALARY EMPLOYEES IN ADDITION TO THE SCHEDULED PUBLIC SAFETY STEP AS WELL. AND THEN ALSO IMPLEMENTING THE PAY STUDY SPECIFICALLY FOR THE PROPERTY YARD OF ABOUT $500,000. I think I'm covering everything. I don't know if I missed anything, Council Member Amos. Happy to answer any questions and or collaborate with the Council Member.

Anthony AmosAnd I mean, if we quickly also just wanted to pull up 4.2, because there's not much of a difference there at all outside of the 0.5% meals tax consideration for discussion. Of course.

JC MartinezstaffSo as the Council Member stated, the only major change here is a potential increase to the meals tax half a percent that would allow for an additional or maybe the request would be for an additional 550 of that additional funding to be dedicated to the school bond project with a potential sunset if the 1% sales tax option was available this is the option that the general assembly or the governor potentially keeps striking down that if that were to come into fruition at that point council would have the option to potentially retract this half a percent meals tax increase at that time once that was available i think everything else sort of still holds true that does show a larger positive variance of about 617 000.

Catherine Readokay are there questions on council council member hall

Stacy Hallthank you for sending the pace study implementation can you kind of run through that I really didn't get a chance to look at it before our work session started

JC Martinezstaffsure I don't have a copy of it here so I'm going to go off of memory

Stacy Hallmemory is probably good enough to do theory based

JC Martinezstaffsure so I'm going to estimate there are probably about 30 to 40 potential affected individuals within the property YARD IN DIFFERENT FUNDS, DIFFERENT FUNCTIONS AS WELL. THIS WOULD BE Q BUS, TRANSPORTATION FUND. YOU ALSO HAVE STORM WATER AND WASTEWATER EMPLOYEES THAT ALSO WORK DOWN THERE BUT WITHIN THOSE SPECIFIC FUNDS. THEN THE LARGER POOL ARE THE GENERAL FUND EMPLOYEES WHO DO FLEET, ASPHALT, REFUSE, OTHER THINGS WITHIN PUBLIC WORKS WITHIN THAT AREA. THERE WAS A STUDY THAT WAS INITIATED IN EARLY 2024 BY THE REQUEST OF THEN THE PRIOR manager along with the director of public works and HR to look at potential retraining initiatives for employees that were leaving for potential higher salaries and or other factors but specifically higher salaries within the

region HR took the initiative internally there were two individuals to HR staff that did an internal evaluation of that set group, their current pay rate, their years of experience that they currently had with the city, their years of experience that they previously had acquired, wherever else that was, how it was relevant, and where they came in at initially when they were originally hired, and how they compared to others who may have come in at a later time WITH A EQUIVALENT AMOUNT OF SERVICE AND OR EXPERIENCE, BUT WE'RE BEING PAID DIFFERENTLY. SO THIS IS MORE OF AN INTERNAL EQUITY FIX THAT IS BEING PROPOSED. IT WAS PRESENTED AND FINALIZED IN ABOUT JULY OR SO OF 2024. IT WAS PRESENTED AND DISCUSSED WITH THE NEW CITY MANAGER AT THAT TIME, LASLO PACKLE,

WHO ALSO SORT OF EMBRACED AND SUPPORTED THE IDEA OF IMPLEMENTING THIS, the time was to incorporate this in the FY 26 budget discussion because of the magnitude of about $500,000 it's about 400 and 385 395 thousand dollars in salary and the remaining amount in fringe so about $500,000 to basically rebalance and provide equity internally within those that select group in the property are of employees thank

Stacy Hallyou and to confirm this is not a one-time expense this would be something that gets added to the budget and then continues to add and grow every year based upon other merit or cost of living adjustments and such correct yes

JC Martinezstaffbut let me clarify so it's not five hundred thousand dollars every year that would be the one time to basically realign everyone but to your point councilmember now because you're doing that there would be an ongoing perpetual costs associated with that increase if they were to get merits if medical insurance were to increase if retirement contribution percentages were to change all that would perpetually impact whatever those new rates are but it would not equate to five hundred thousand dollars every single year for this group if I answer your question I

Stacy Halldon't mean to be simple-minded but if big picture someone's making $50,000 and now this pay study said they should be making $80,000 that's a $30,000 increase this year correct wouldn't that then have a $30,000 increase also next year over what it would have been had we not done the pay study implementation

JC Martinezstaffso yes and I think I may have misunderstood or or not explained it as well so to the base budget, yes, you now have to increase the base budget by this potential $500,000 going forward. In addition to that, then you would have to increase it an additional, I'm going to make a number here, 3% or 4% based on inflationary costs, medical insurance, fringe benefit costs, potential merits, things of that nature. I think we're both saying the same things just different ways yes okay

Stacy Hallokay thank you um and for those employees that were included in this does that include the consideration of a three and a half cent merit or would that be completely on top of in addition to whatever that number is it

JC Martinezstaffwould be on top of if approved and that would be effective January 1, 2026.

Stacy HallOkay, and are there other departments for which this same process has yet to be done that we need to be thinking of long term?

JC MartinezstaffThat is an excellent question. I don't know if I can fully answer that, but I can say that in the past, in the recent past, and I think I noted it in the email communication, that there was a very similar study done in 2022, moving them from the general salary scale to their planned step scale and there was a increase at that time I could not figure out the number 100% of what that was but it was budgeted and that was the last internal equity analysis that was done a few years ago for that for that area for that group

Stacy Hallokay yeah that's actually what prompted me to ask the question of are there others because there was one then there was another one so we just I feel like we just need to understand if that is potentially an issue I recognize that this is a hard conversation to have I mean I think it's not uncommon in most fields for people to change jobs and move around I'm not saying that's exactly what happened here but people get hired at a certain date they get you you know, ongoing merit increases, cost living adjustment, whatever it is, and they get to, you know, X and Y salary in five years. Someone new comes in, comes over from somewhere else, has similar experience, but the market is paying a different number. It's not unheard of. It happens.

It's unfortunately just hitting, I think, at a very bad time combined with a lot of other things. So I do think it's a conversation to be had and to be discussed and to be thought about, but I'm not exactly sure where I am on it right now. Thank you for bringing the information so we can understand it.

Catherine ReadOkay, go ahead.

JC MartinezstaffIf I could elaborate, so in other jurisdictions, so Alexandria is the most current one that I can explain or give experience, they actually do one-third review every year of their entire class and class classification. So they all review within those positions, sort of see what the market is doing specifically within local government and if need be they would propose any adjustments for internal equity and also to maintain competitiveness within the region. The next year they would do another third, the next year they would do another third, so then by year four you've done a hundred percent and then So it's not uncommon in local government. We're not there yet. That might be something that we would consider.

I know we're in the process of hiring a new HR director, but again, just initial thoughts. We just wanted to provide that feedback.

Stacy HallI appreciate that. It seems like local government is its own wild animal that does not relate or portray out to some of the real world, it seems. So thank you.

Catherine ReadCouncil Member McQuillan.

Rachel McQuillenSorry, just to confirm, this is, Public Works is the only department that, and Public Safety is the only department that's had this type of analysis done.

JC MartinezstaffI can only, Pay

Rachel McQuillenstudy, sorry.

JC MartinezstaffCorrect. I can only confirm of Public Works and previously of Public Safety, there were previous pay studies done. I don't know if they looked at any specific, just a specific department or what's been implemented 100%. two or three years given my tenure here thank you sure

Catherine Readcouncilmember Amos

Anthony Amosyeah so to just briefly go over both scenarios so I wanted to meet with everyone first and I pretty much got to everyone either in person or via text message so appreciate the feedback I wanted to see what everyone's priorities were and where we could get some consensus on reductions but what are some of the hard lines that we want to draw my approach to this is in my opinion with the school bond on the horizon until we have that 1% sales tax I can't really go that low and so when I was approaching this it was with that mindset and consider the fact that with the tariffs impacts rising construction costs it is quite possible that we actually need that full 220 million which mind you exceeds our entire CIP so we can never truly make enough and so

with this it's pretty much preparing us for the chance that we don't get it because if we don't then things get much worse for us and we have a horrible in the year next year no one's gonna walk away from this happy in my opinion so with 4.1 that was excluding the meals tax and we were pretty much just right there and that was to keep that flat because I do agree with the comments that we received earlier that our restaurants have been paying that for a significant amount of time granted we are now also operating the with the knowledge that the county is planning on going to 4% and in addition to that we are having a much different conversation than we were back in March we're no longer looking at nine and a half and two percent. I don't like the meals tax. What I will say in

addition to that is if there were to be any kind of meals tax for me personally I wouldn't feel comfortable unless if it were dedicated in some kind of way and I know that one of the priorities especially with the one percent is if we dedicated specifically for school funding. I also played around with the idea of if we dedicated it specifically back to restaurants through restaurant week and a culinary program as we previously discussed with entities like Josh Alexander for example, but we felt like the schools would be the best avenue if we were to pursue that, but I wanted both on the table just for discussion. But my approach to this is pretty much we need to be prepared for the worst scenario. I don't even know if we're there with this one, but I'm

trying to incorporate what I heard from everyone to some degree in there, making sure that nonprofits have funding, providing the merit for staff, looking at where we can reduce, including with the CIP transfer, but also, for example, some of our grant positions. Do we have additional flexibility to prepare for those if we, and potentially lose more like the Sprout grant? And in this scenario, well, both scenarios, the Sprout grant is funded through next fiscal year rather than ending this December, which is something that we've received from, for example, ESC members, PRAB in addition to that. a mixing pot of pretty much all of us so I'm looking forward to the conversation about it

Catherine Readother discussions councilmember Bates thanks

Billy BatesI just want to put out there that the first off as far as the five percent police department cuts according to the memo that we got that the five They can maintain current staffing levels, but it would impact equipment purchases, training, vacant tent positions, and retention incentives. And so even that 5% cut is a no-go for me. Any cuts to the nonprofit grant program are a no-go for me as well, because this is really not the time to be considering that, given the conversations and actions that are happening at the federal level. and sure, we didn't see the entire amount utilized last time around, but that was the very first year that we did it, and it was still most of it. I believe it was a little bit over $200,000.

Is that correct? Yeah. So a little bit over $200,000. And we also, first off, we're going to see most likely the word getting out more so the second year around than the first year, but also probably more demand due to uncertainty surrounding federal funding. And additionally, I do not support cutting the pay study implementation. I think that's probably been a long time coming from, based on my familiarity with it. and I want to make sure that we're taking care of our frontline public works employees and making sure that not only they can continue providing the service levels that we want to see and that we don't lose more of them, but also just that they're being taken care of in exchange for the hard work and the hard jobs that they have.

I also would not support cutting the merit increases. I think that's consistent with what's been done in the past. And I would be extremely wary of any additional cuts to training and travel because that, you know, if we were to just kind of go to the max cut you know that's equivalent to what's in scenario five that may not directly impact services and staffing but it may have an indirect impact in terms of them not having the travel and training that they need to go get training and you know get the skills enhancement of you know certain kinds That's kind of where I am. But one additional potential compromise I'd like to propose is if we were to increase the meals tax by, say, 0.75% or 0.5% or even 0.25%,

but not increase expenditures at all and just use all of that to further cut the real estate tax rate below that 3.5 cents. so I'm open to hearing what the others think

Catherine ReadCouncil Member McQuillan

Rachel McQuillenso I agree with Council Member Bates in regards to the 5% police reduction that's a no-go for me especially as we are facing a lot of issues with our economy coming up and increased cost of things a rise of unemployment we need to retain and treat our police well because I'm really concerned about that I am okay with a hold on the merit for one year training and travel I'm completely fine with cutting the travel element but I don't want to cut training I unless it's something that's very vital and they have to leave for it and travel for it I think right now we're with this potential increase in real estate tax, as we've heard from a lot of our constituents, that means a lot of people won't be able to take vacations. They're going to have to cut

costs themselves. And so it's not right that we're sending people when they can get that same knowledge potentially through the internet or something, or virtually. I prefer to keep the real estate rate under three cents increase right now. That's kind of what I'm looking at and leaning towards. Anything above that, I'm just not even, that's tough for me, and you guys know where I stand on the meals tax, so thank you. That's what I'm thinking right now.

Catherine ReadCouncil

Speaker 38Member Peterson? On the merit increase, has there been any evaluation of or any consideration of a lower merit increase combined with a market rate adjustment for people at the higher end?

JC MartinezstaffI would say not formally if council were to propose because there have been different proposals of reducing it by a percent to 2.5% to 2% to 1.5%. We could look at those options if need be. We just sort of need that direction and we can put proposals and scenarios together. We can have the 4.1 Peterson scenario if need be, sir.

Catherine ReadCouncil

Anthony AmosMember Amos. So I would not support doing that. I prefer the full merit. I will also acknowledge that, in my opinion, we are a little, we need to focus more on the long term because some of what we're doing here to get the tax rate lower is using one-time money for recurring expenses, which is a very poor practice, especially in government. And so some of these will be permanent. But, for example, if we want to increase travel and training in the future, it becomes far more difficult. Same for Renaissance housing funding. If we want that to come back, if we were to reduce nonprofits, scaling it back to the $300,000. So I'm extremely cautious about using one-time money for recurring expenses.

I'm not a big fan. So that's where I'm at.

Catherine ReadCouncilmember Hardy Chandler.

Stacey Hardy-ChandlerSo I would like to commend my colleagues for coming up with these scenarios to help lead us to a compromise discussion. We have to remember we started out at, what, 9.5 cents? So the fact that we're having a discussion around three is, I think, a lot of progress listening to where people are understanding the current climate. With that said, I think that even as we're considering numbers, we absolutely, and I think this is something that you are trying to get at, Council Member Amos, we have to consider the longer-term impacts of these decisions, the investments in prevention. These are beyond numbers. They have implications, and they tell the story of our city. And so I think that when we go below three, I think three is so bare bones, but willing

to look at that as a compromise area. THE BAROMETER FOR ME IS GOING BACK TO THOSE PRIORITIES AND VALUES THAT WE TALKED ABOUT EARLIER. SAFETY IS IMPORTANT, SO THE 5% CUT TO THE POLICE IS NOT SOMETHING THAT I CAN SUPPORT, AND NOR CAN I SUPPORT ANYTHING THAT DIMINISHES THE MERIT OF OUR STAFF. I believe that there are beyond the numbers service implications and long-term implications that have to be factored into our budgetary decisions. So I am leaning, and I also want to say that I would not support more scenarios. We've worked hard to get to these and reducing scenarios to try and find some common ground. So I don't think we need to add other permutations if we can help it. If we can find something among the ones that are before us, which are, you know, not going to make everyone happy, not going to cover everything,

but I think gives us an opportunity to really reflect where people are and what is reasonable in terms of running a city. I appreciate the work of these scenarios and I would love the conversation to sort of narrow down some of the support, not support areas so that we can maybe come up with an approximate whole city council scenario.

Catherine ReadOther comments? Council Member Hall.

Stacy Hallso I spoke with Chris Bruno with the EDA and he was able to offer I said take out the 10 percent can we just focus on maybe a hundred thousand dollars so he was able to offer up the culinary careers collaborative and the women's entrepreneurship program as well as a miscellaneous bucket for unplanned studies so that could be another hundred thousand dollars that we could reduce I get that it's only a hundred thousand dollars but when you want to that maybe that is something to be considered. Personally, I think three is too high. I think we are facing tough times right now, and I just, I feel like when people come and they talk to us, it's not that it's falling on deaf ears, but I just don't feel like

big picture, we seem to be taking things to heart. And I think that people losing their jobs, people not knowing what they're going to do. I think that those things are not being fully considered in some of these scenarios. And quite frankly, I love our staff and I think they do a great job, but to me, this is not the time to give a merit increase. If you want to call it a cost of living adjustment, I might be able to get a little bit more behind that, but quite frankly, no. I think that people should be embracing and happy with the jobs that they have right now. And if they're not, and they can't recognize that this is a tough year for our city and for every other city across the country, well, maybe you're not in the right place.

Maybe none of us are in the right place then. I mean, I just think that that, I just think it's silly. I think that most people are happy to have a job right now, me included. I think that the Renaissance Housing Fund, I think if the memo was from Mr. Hardin was correct, it said that we would only be able to do about one to three loans regardless. So to me, I love the program. I took advantage of it. But that's $392,000 that I think is a hard no for me that needs to come out. It could maybe be brought back later, but with the high interest rates and everything else, to me, hard no. I do actually think I would like to consider the additional funding for the efficiency audit. something that we really truly need right now and thank you to councilmember

McQuillan for suggesting it and for councilmember Amos for suggesting it in his plan I'd like to have a little bit more feedback I think on the sprout grant position and whether or not that position would actually be able to do any of the items that are included in the budget for those items to be completed with the CIP I got the impression not at 5% police reduction okay, that that was manageable. That's a million dollars. So I would like to reconsider that. I do not support any meals tax increase regardless of where it's going. Reducing travel and training, I think no to travel. I think mandatory required training is where we need to be. Again, this is a year. This is one year. It gives us the opportunity to

see how are all these other things shaking out? How are the grants eliminated? How are the federal workers that were laid off? How are the contractors that are laid off? How is everything shaking out? It's one year. If you can't survive for one year here, I'm sorry. I just, I don't have a lot of patience for that. We're in a tough position. Everyone is in a tough position, and we all need to act like that.

Catherine ReadI would agree, and I think we should look at things like eliminating rock the display because if we are having tough times in this city then everybody needs to wear that austerity across the board and those are nice to have not must have and if we're doing it on the backs of our employees public works parks and rec and public safety to put on these free events not just for our residents for the county i think they need to be taken out that's just my two cents worth Councilmember Amos?

Stacy HallI actually wasn't done speaking.

Catherine ReadSorry.

Stacy HallThat's okay. Thank you. There, I'm glad that you actually bring up Parks and Rec. So there were some questions that I had in there. I think we discussed earlier about the trout situation and the pond. Do you know if that's something that we fund annually, $2,000 to stock the pond for the event? Or is that just a one-time thing because the pond ran out of trout?

JC MartinezstaffI don't know if I can answer that question. So I'm getting the head nods saying yes annually.

Stacy HallOkay. So that, I love a fishing contest for kids, but $2,000 for trout, and I was also told that they like very oxygen rich water, which apparently doesn't continue, so maybe we should switch to Sunny's or something else that can live in Ashby Pine year-round. I also think we need to reconsider the thrones I think we need to reconsider I had asked some questions I don't think I ever got an answer on my Fiesta Fairfax the number of participants that came and I also didn't get an answer on there were some math errors on the spreadsheets for some of the holiday events I was trying to do a cost per participant analysis to see and I believe I'm going to get the math wrong do the fishing derby because it's like 2,500 divided by 75 participants. So I was trying to

go and do cost per person and try to come up with like, what is this really worth to us? Where could we look for outside sponsorships? Where could we try to do something else? So I'm at two. Two is I think probably the max that I'm willing to go to. I don't know where the numbers I just suggested shook out I also councilmember Amos want to recognize that you had a $15 increase in the annual fee I'm sorry a annual fee of $15 for seniors I had proposed zero before I would be willing to do $15 I think that is manageable that being said I do think we need to look at more cost recovery models for some of these other things. So when you come and you do lunch with Santa, that was a favorite thing my kids used to do. Maybe you have to spend $5. Like there's small

things that we can implement. I don't want to just, you know, charge everybody for everything, but we cannot just continue to give things away for free for everything. And if we're going to start to charge one segment of people, then I think we do need to consider charging others. So I'll stop there. I'm sure I'll have more to say in a minute, but thank you

Catherine ReadCouncil member Amos

Anthony Amosso I mean in terms of looking for reductions throughout the year I completely understand that and that is the point of including something like an efficiency audit what I Do want to reiterate is that for example at the budget open house Which was the goal to hear from more people? I did hear from people as we did tonight that there were a lot of people didn't like their tax assessments I also heard from people who actually told me they were okay with the nine and a half, which I think is wild but people I've actually received multiple emails as well saying they understand especially after the budget open house we are having a completely different conversation than we were back in March including from what a lot of people

referenced today there were still people who thought it was going to be the full nine and a half now we're looking at three I would testify on nine and a half I probably wouldn't be too too upset if it were a three cent increase to be honest with you and the same for the meals tax that conversation today was was 2%, not a .5. Now I understand that if there's no support for that, that is perfectly fine. But with the approval of the school bond, with us trying to use one-time money to afford recurring expenses, I thought these were mistakes that happened in the past that we did not want to replicate. And so I understand wanting to get to two, but I think building in buffer space and getting that 1% sales tax next year

because assuming that it will pass on the referendum, we still wouldn't have it until FY28. No, the budget, budget FY28. It'll be in 2027. Because it still has to go on the referendum and it still has to pass that even if we were able to get through this. We're banking on an election this year for the 1% to pass and we don't have a backup plan. And I've asked about it, about if we can get private funding for school renovations, on the table and we don't really have that. And when this school bond was passed, and I, you know, 70%, extremely important, I get that. It was on the idea that we would have that 1% sales tax. Now, we can assume that we're going to get it, but that's just not how you do fiscal management.

When I first learned about the school, and I attested this, when I first learned about the school bond, it was in conjunction with the 1%. And so, I mean, not to turn this into a schools discussion, what I'm saying is with financial planning, we can keep looking for reductions, but we still need to make sure we're preparing for the future. This is not just a one-year thing. And so I just want to tell you all where I'm at. I can't go to two. So that's me.

Catherine ReadCouncil Member Peterson, did you have something to share?

Speaker 38No, but I'd be happy to.

Catherine Readand I thought maybe there was something to all that buzzing around that you'd want to share with us.

Speaker 38Well, I think that a possibility here that needs some additional review by our chief financial officer is that within, I'm not sure where it is within, whether it's in CIP, it's in sustainability. Okay, it's in sustainability. The city has planned, and I have spoken about this before, I absolutely support this, doing a combination of two climate action plans at the same time, and one for adaptation. It's a total cost of $440,000. I think one of the possibilities here is that we stretch that over two years and free up $220,000 to give us a little bit of breathing room here and actually give the staff a little bit of breathing room too. It's really tough to do that work in that period of time. They want to do that work

means having stakeholder involvement and doing it in a stepwise manner it's really super technical work i just think giving them two years makes their job a heck of a lot easier and it gives us a little bit of breathing room here as well so but that's that's

JC Martinezstaffdependent on you so so we just confirmed and my hunch was it was in the cip gwen just confirmed it she just pulled it up it is in CIP so it would not both of them that would not impact the general fund 100%

Speaker 38well okay is there a way to take advantage of this opportunity that would help us here

JC Martinezstaffwe could do what you were suggesting if it's so lamentable to all parties and that's the will of the council but it's only impacting the CIP and that is a potential $220,000 reduction in the CIP, but not the general fund to sort of really impact the proposed scenarios.

Speaker 38So in terms of a cash transfer to CIP, this doesn't have any impact?

Brian FosterstaffNo. It was in one of the responses that we sent previously. You would have to, because it's in the CIP, if you wanted to cancel the projects, suggesting that but the way to take advantage of it is what you is like this is the analogous to how we're funding the school bond the the CIP basically prior CIP appropriations instead of spending it on that you wouldn't spend it on that you could you didn't have to spend it on the school piece but I'm just you would you would could reduce the cash transfer by four hundred twenty thousand but but then you would not have the funds and you would not be able to do do those plans because because that money has already been appropriated and it's in the CIP to be spent on these and so it's not going to help you with the

with the tax rate or what you're trying to do in terms of getting balanced

Stacey Hardy-ChandlerSo getting back to the scenarios, I think that there are, I try to look for and opportunities. So I think the, some of the questions you raised, I think there are opportunities to get at those, but through the efficiency study, I would not want it to be sort of popcorn, different things. And I would certainly wouldn't want $2,000 to hold us up from coming to some agreement. So I think it makes sense to invest, especially for the long term, because decisions about 2026 are stepping stones to the years beyond that. And these are not siloed decisions. These are things that impact things for the long run. So I think if we think sort of what kinds of things can impact future things, I think we can get to some of the questions and things that you want to look at free versus pay, but through a data-informed approach that is more planful and intentional.

so I go back to of these scenarios I think for me something around the Bates Amos thing leads us to a full for May 6th a full city council it doesn't mean that other questions don't need to be asked I think they do but I think that we can be planful about those questions for upcoming periods through the things that we incorporate in the approximate scenario that we select and again I just go back to when we talk about our staff beyond their pay they also eat in Fairfax City they have lunch in Fairfax City they they also in various ways beyond their job support our city so to me that has rippling benefits economically for all of us again it's thinking about the numbers but it's also thinking about the numbers beyond the numbers so I'm hoping

we can kind of come back to where we can find common ground among the scenarios that people worked really thoughtfully to create.

Anthony AmosCouncil Member Amos? I also just want to acknowledge that a lot of what we're looking at potentially cutting or suggestions that have come up during this process, we didn't ask people if they want those cut. And I still don't think we've even come close to hearing from the majority of citizens. And so I do want to make sure that's on the table because we're about to get that information. We're about to do a community survey where we can fund an efficiency audit. We can have those in conjunction for next year. And if we allow ourselves some buffer room, get the 1%. Because if it passes the state, I don't know if we can assume that it's going to pass on a referendum, considering what's happened to the meals tax in the past.

But I think with the context of the school bond, people would be understanding. I think with that narrative, we could even get to a point within the next year or two where we could keep it flat or reduce it further. But if we get to next year and we don't get that 1% approved by the state, what are we going to do? Outside of jumping the tax rate by potentially 20 to 30 cents in a couple years.

Catherine ReadMr. Foster.

Brian FosterstaffThank you, Mayor, if I may. So I appreciate this has been very good discussion. If I may, if I just can sort of reflect back for just a moment what I've been hearing. I was trying to take notes when everybody was speaking, so I it sounds like a majority of you do not want to increase the meals tax. That's what I'm hearing at least half of you are not interested or would not support those are my words that's what I'm hearing but would not support the 5% PD reduction that was has been mentioned as a as an as an alternative what I have heard is somewhere between two and three cents as far as what you might be willing to consider for real estate so we're I say we're making progress we're getting a little closer we can't I mean we can certainly we want one suggestion

you know, we can agree on the rate, on our suggested rate. We can get you there. You have all these options. And I don't want to say they're all plug and play, but, I mean, we can adapt those, I think, to get you to the number that you want to be at. But so I would say that. The other thing I would just sort of would reiterate, and some of you have said this is when you adopt the budget whatever the whatever you adopt and the tax rate that you adopt we're not going to stop looking at the budget or stop talking about the budget or stop figuring out ways to figure out how we can reduce things or as your priorities change or or as you flesh those out whether they are going down the same path or whether

you want to veer in a different direction. We're going to continue to do that. So this isn't a one-time decision in the sense you've got to decide this and then, okay, we're not going to talk about it again until next year. And this is an ongoing process. So you've mentioned efficiency study. That's perfectly fine. Welcome that. I would also say I think there's a lot of that we can do. I've done that. I think the staff could do that. but you want an outside person third party perfectly fine you know because that's going to tell you you know it's going to tell us what it's going to tell us whether that there's things we can do things we can't do or you know things we can do better it'll give you that it goes still goes back to what this

community what you as a council what this community values so I hear you to do these things we you know you've talked about cost recovery but we don't want to charge the seniors a fee we want to talk you know we talk about we can't do this well we but we offer all these free programs so again we can continue to do that and as I've mentioned to you before it's all about the choices that you make and so whatever number you land on you're not gonna you're not gonna do what was proposed and recommended.

Parham JabariI get that.

Brian FosterstaffAnd that's perfectly fine. But with that decision comes these kinds of reductions in order to get there. And so we're prepared to do any or all of those, but we need to get hopefully enough agreement from council on the direction that you want to go. and and what I would say is is that when I say you don't necessarily have to make all those decisions this evening you do need we do need to decide what direction we're going to go but all of these things that you're asking about can we do this can we be more efficient can we look at cost recovery can we are there better ways to do things technology improvements etc etc we're still going to continue to look at those things the fact that we adopt about it's not like

we just stop once the budget's adopted and then we wait until next year. We'll continue to do that. And so I just share that with you just to sort of hopefully provide a little bit of context that we're prepared to do what the council wants us to do, but really what I'm hearing is you're between two and three cents. And so you're very close, and I would like to see if there's a way for us us being the staff or certainly as you continue to discussion if we can get you to a place that you're comfortable with this evening and that we can then we'll have everything prepared and show you what that looks like but with the assurance that we're going to keep looking at this you don't have to decide all this tonight you're not going

be able to decide all this tonight all these are these are weighty questions and things that we don't some things we don't know answer the answer to and we're not going to know the answer to for some time whether what's the economy going to do whether we're going to get a one percent for option to fund schools those are things we'll continue to to work on react to but you all have have a weighty decision to make and that is what is it that you want to do for this budget and so I think you're getting close and and I just want I just wanted to just I guess reassure you that we're going to continue to do all the things I hear you talking about which is how can we do things better how can we get the best value for our residents and our taxpayers so that that part's not

going to stop regardless of what you do this evening or regardless of what you ultimately, even if you adopted my recommended budget, that would not stop. We would continue to look at those things. So I thank you for letting me share that.

Catherine ReadAnd just to further complicate this, you know, I'll remind everybody that the mayor can vote on the budget and the mayor cannot vote on the tax rate. So if the budget is 3-3 and I vote to break a tie, it doesn't mean anything. if it's the same 3-3 split on the tax rate, then you have a dilemma. And I think we need to talk a little bit about what happens then and why we need to get to at least a majority of four, because I am out of the equation on this. So, Mr. Foster, could you talk about that?

Brian FosterstaffYeah, sure. So, the mayor is correct, and I know that the city attorney is in the process of helping and will be document just on what things can the mayor can vote on and not vote on because it's kind of quirky so she's correct can vote on the budget but not on the tax rate so and the two obviously work hand in hand so in the same thing on the appropriation she can't vote on the appropriation part either I think that is that correct mr. yeah okay he's giving me the thumbs up so again you know ultimately we've got to get some we have to get a budget adopted it's going to take four votes or excuse me the mayor can break the tie but the reality is is with the tax rate and appropriations all of that works hand in hand so the

reality is you need for four of you have to agree on something and whether you You know, you may, again, I know you all have certain priorities, things you feel very strongly about, which is, you know, which is very understandable and admirable. But this is a body. You act as a body, even though individually you all have your own opinions of what you think needs to happen or not happen. but we need to find a way to get enough agreement so we can move forward and continue the business of the city with the assurance that again we'll continue to look at all the ways that we can we can be more efficient and look at things and see how we how else we can reduce costs find new sources of revenue if

they're out there that don't necessarily negatively impact our residents and taxpayers that that's those are things that we continue to do as well we're somewhat hamstrung by our friends in Richmond and we are overly reliant on property taxes that's no different than the rest of the localities in Virginia and that is not something we can change so we have so that's the things we have we have to work with so to the mayor's point ultimately four of you are going to have to and in an ideal world it would be nice if there was some unanimity but at the end of the day four of you are going to have to agree on on something

Catherine Readcouncil member hall

Stacy Halldo we happen to have the march 31st adm numbers from city perfect schools or fcps that

JC Martinezstaffhas not been communicated to us yet

Stacy Hallit seems like we should right I

JC Martinezstaffcan inquire with the superintendent but that has not been shared with me yet

Stacy Hallyeah okay

Brian Fosterstafflook we'll see if they're posted on the state website and look at that up I'll look at that right now and Mike can get you an answer

Stacy Halljust one more thing I want to say it if if we're not going to consider in this current budget any other sort of cost recovery models for programs events etc then I withdraw my vote for considering the $15 for seniors I think it's not appropriate if we're not going to be looking at other things

Catherine Readcouncilmember Amos

Anthony AmosI mean I think we should keep looking at cost recovery and that's also why we have the parks foundation so I think that's an ongoing process well not just cost recovery but also privatization which I know we were going to cover tonight, but we're going to reschedule it, but seeing where we can also get private dollars for covering, but I think it should be a combination of multiple things. Reductions, how can we decrease our debt, but also cost recovery, privatization. Well, we're decreasing it. We're getting there. We're getting there. But at the end of the day, a lot of the debt that we have is CIP related and is not really completely assisting us with this general fund. so that's part of the reason why the proposal I brought up all that stuff but we got to get to

something

Catherine Readcouncilmember Hall

Stacy Hallyes Lesta great but until we can pull out the CIP that's not CIP the operating and maintenance for next year which I cannot wait to see did we not get the report for the CIP from prior years of funds that were scattered around that we don't know about or not aware of

JC Martinezstaffstill working on it man

Stacy Hallokay this is why it's really hard to say yay we're gonna have consensus tonight because there's so many moving pieces and parts that are still out there and to your point no it's not over but I'm withdrawing my vote on any sort of senior tax if we're not going to be able to consider anything else in the current year budget with that.

Catherine ReadCouncil Member Peterson?

Speaker 38Yeah. So it appears that there's still some outstanding questions that could be helpful here in terms of getting to a bottom line. A lot of stuff came in today, yesterday, of us come up in this meeting. I don't know how much potential there is within all of that to help us out a little bit here, but it sounds like there may be some, and we haven't exactly resolved that yet. I mean, my own take is I have been working very hard to see if this two-cent scenario was something that could be made to work, and I'm not done with that, and I'm taking that very seriously. I'm not saying I don't have flexibility around that, but I really kind of need to see a little bit more resolution of some things. And I have, you know, clarifying questions on a few things that came up earlier tonight

that would be, you know, included in that. I don't want to burn too much time, but there still are some things that are kind of gaps from my standpoint that we kind of need to get on top of. But again, I am leaning towards protecting the taxpayers in this city and finding ways to restructure our spending in both the short and long term and get a start on that while we are at the same time protecting vital social services and safety, really key things in the city. But we, in my view, still have some outstanding questions here that haven't quite gotten resolved yet. And

Brian Fosterstaffwhat questions are those so we can...

Speaker 38Yeah, so I heard the police chief say that she was okay with 5%.

Brian FosterstaffI believe that is correct. We had the same, the conversation that we had was they could maintain service. The question was can they maintain the services out on the street as far as with the personnel they have and so forth. In the memo it talked about what the challenges were. She did say that. You're correct. three of your colleagues were saying, what I heard three of your colleagues say is that they were, that was not something that they wished to consider. So that's not four. So we can't, you know, unless, if, if, unless somebody wants to change their opinion on that, that's really not going to help us.

Speaker 38My question would be, why is it that when the police chief says she can live with five, we, any of us believe that we cannot live with that figure when we have the assurance from the police chief that we can. Council Member Hardy-Chandler.

Stacey Hardy-ChandlerSo my recollection is that came up as part of a very, you know, sort of across-the-board discussion about the 20 or whatever it was, 10 percent. And I think people offered up a lot of things that would not have been optimal. Again, security is an important thing, and again, I think it was because a lot of people maybe felt pressure to offer up something. If there wasn't that pressure, that's not my interpretation of some of the presentations that we got that people were reluctantly offering up things to comply with that request. but again I go back to things that I think are priorities I also go back to the individual departmental presentations where there was information about things that they wanted to do and that were in the best interest of the

department again long term so that's my reason for wanting to maintain not include the 5%

Catherine Readcouncil member Amos this has nothing to do with the 5%

Anthony Amosjust to follow up on the senior part real quick I do also want to acknowledge the $15 increase is only about 23 24,000 so technically and even in this model that could still be covered just so you know so that doesn't if I'm understanding that correctly that that's just revenue generated so it could still be covered any increase and keep it free it was so programming could still remain free I just I didn't know again whether we wanted to add additional revenue factor I thought the full 60 I understand especially in one year was a bit much I know we talked about cost recovery in the past so that's why I included that in there but if that's something that we're not amenable to it can still be covered so

Catherine Readcouncilmember Peters well

Speaker 38I just like to go back to maybe the 5% and department heads here who I think take their jobs seriously as well as the commitment of the city. And we have pushed people and they're pushing us, including the citizens. And folks came forward to see what they could do here. And in the case of the police chief, she gave us her assurance that she could stay whole at 5%. But she wasn't alone. We heard other department heads come in and say, you know, these are things we can do that weren't part of the original game plan. And we have assurances from them that that would maintain services or infrastructure at levels of protection that they felt comfortable with. So I have a really hard time disagreeing with that assurance.

And from my standpoint, that is translatable into an agreement we can reach here because I think those were reliable statements. and because this was a relatively short period of time my guess is there's more where that came from but we may not have time to actually uncover it here but I'm certainly of the view that those are reliable statements that we should count on for our budget here

Catherine Readcouncilmember Bates

Billy Batesso again this is verbatim from the memo that we all got via email at a 5% reduction in expenditures the police department can maintain current staffing levels the reduction would largely impact equipment purchases training vacant temp positions and retention incentives so that's the report that we got and I certainly don't dispute that you know they can certainly maintain current staffing levels with that 5% reduction but you know it has other impacts that that might have more long-term implications that I'm not totally comfortable with.

Catherine ReadCouncil Member Amos.

Anthony AmosIs well I guess I'll just ask is that one of those things that we could not do the full amount that we could have a discussion on like for example keeping the retention incentives would people be more amenable to that instead of doing the full million we could see kind of get what that 5% really looks like.

Catherine ReadWell, I'm sure anything is possible.

Brian FosterstaffWell, I mean, 2 cents, the difference between 2 cents and 3 cents is $835,000. That's what your, that's the delta. If that's the discussion point, and maybe that's not the discussion point, but the difference between a 2 cent increase and a 3 cent increase is $835,000. that's what you need to if that's that's the difference that's where that's what that's the bridge that's what you have to bridge if you're wanting to come to some kind of agreement whether you're meeting in the middle or figuring out an alternative way to do 835 then what's being proposed for to go from three cents to two cents

Catherine ReadCouncilmember Hardy Chandler

Stacey Hardy-Chandlerand so can we and if that is the tipping point I mean that I think does get us closer in the discussion because aside from you said you could get us there right somehow you could get us there and so if that is the one of the factors to get us to three cents I think you know that's something that we should consider but could there be something else that covers that 800 and whatever thousand dollars to get us there also

Brian Fosterstaffthere

Stacey Hardy-ChandlerI

Brian Fosterstaffmean there are lots of options I mean

Stacey Hardy-Chandlerso so I'm sorry and just to follow up what do you need tonight I'm

Brian Fosterstaffsorry

Stacey Hardy-Chandlerwhat do you need tonight in terms of what we I mean because I think we could talk about until the wee hours, but I want to also give the staff what we need to sort of...

Brian FosterstaffI'm looking at them, but I have done this before in other places. And what I think we can do, and I'm looking at them, and they might kill me when I suggest this, however, is what we need to know is the tax rate. which tells us the revenue, and then we can plug all the things that we need to put in place. What we can do is we can hold the – so I guess what I'm saying is if we need to – if you agree on the – I'm just going to say for sake of discussion. will do three cents no change to the meals tax that's just only I'm reading that because that's what's on the screen at the moment then that's going to then then then what that tells us is that we need to reduce uh 7.8 million dollars we can and we can show you how to get to the 7.8

million dollars we can we can that would allow us to get to adopt or to put the things together and we can, in essence, have a placeholder for that, an offset for that number as a placeholder until we can figure out exactly the certain things. For example, I believe everybody is fine with using the $5 million from the EDA. I've heard nobody say don't use that. so that so I mean huh well yes we took it back the only to preserve that it didn't get spent I'm

Stacy Hallgonna need to comment on that one then I did not like the way that happened I I feel like reading through that agreement it should have been that council directed city manager to pull that money back I think I won't say it eroded our relationship with the EDA, but I don't think it was the best action at the moment. I think asking them not to spend it was totally sufficient, and I didn't like how that whole thing went down. That being said, we need the $5 million back. They understand that. We have it. But I did not like that.

Catherine ReadCouncilmember

Anthony AmosAmos. And I was just going to say that the only reason we're having this conversation between two and three is because of the EDA money anyway, which won't be there next year. So throwing that back out there.

Brian FosterstaffI'm looking, I believe we can have a placeholder, but knowing the number, that's the important thing for us. Is that not correct? I

JC MartinezstaffWOULD SAY THAT IS THE PRIMARY THING, IF POSSIBLE, AND IF I COULD KIND OF OVERSTEP. THE SECONDARY THING IS, OF THESE ITEMS, WHICH ONES ARE TRULY NON-NEGOTIABLE? I THINK THE MANAGER WAS SORT OF ALLUDING TO THAT, WHERE ARE THERE FOUR VOTES OF NO OR four votes of yes and then we can fine-tune that given where there's consensus or potential consensus of either a yes or no versus us come back to you knowing that there's a tax rate a potential tax rate but then still not providing accurate information because we're unaware that the 5% police reduction is should have never even been brought up as a as an example or the pick one was not supposed to be on there

Stacey Hardy-Chandlerso just as a starting point to get there would it be helpful to go down each of these and survey us I mean because it still may be 3-3 tonight but that's okay

JC MartinezstaffI'm sorry I think so councilman

Catherine Readyeah

Anthony AmosI was just going to say if we want to not just look at this one but we could also look at scenario too because I think it lists out more that we could just discuss and see what's non-negotiable and what

Catherine Readyes

Anthony Amosjust because I think it lists out more so we could just have a more comprehensive discussion if either way

Catherine Readokay so so councilmember Peterson well

Speaker 38of course the other way we could do this is start from the bottom and work our way up which

Catherine Readis I think where I'm leaning Okay. Mr. Martinez, did you want to proceed?

JC MartinezstaffWe can. So when you say from the bottom, you're talking about scenario. Why don't you take Council Member

Speaker 38Hall's

JC Martinezstaffscenario? We can do that.

Speaker 38May I just ask just for a quick clarification. The real estate fund, as I understand it, that was in CIP originally before it was pulled out and sent to EDA. Is that correct?

JC MartinezstaffIt was in the general fund transfer to the CIP. We had not transferred that. We do our transfers at the end of the year.

Speaker 38Okay. That's helpful because just double-checking on the DBW issue we talked about before, just to clarify and verify, there isn't a way to pull that out of CDP to realize the financial savings that we could then apply to putting this thing on a two-year stretch as a part of a general fund thing.

JC MartinezstaffFrom what I understood, you say originally that suggestion was a delay or an extension of... An

Speaker 38extension. So instead of a one-year

JC Martinezstaffprogram, it's a two-year program. But in totality, the 440 was going to get utilized. Is that a correct statement?

Speaker 38THAT'S RIGHT, BUT NOT IN FY26.

JC MartinezstaffSO THOSE FUNDS HAVE ALREADY BEEN APPROPRIATED UNLIKE WHAT I THINK THE SCHOOL BOARD CHAIR IDENTIFIED AND SO DID DIRECTOR SUMMERFIELD. THOSE PROJECTS WERE NOT GOING TO GO FORWARD SO THEY CAN BE REALLOCATED TO SOMETHING ELSE. IN THIS INSTANCE REGARDING THE CLIMATE PLAN, THEY'RE STILL GOING TO BE UTILIZED SO I CAN'T REALLOCATE THEM. I CAN EXTEND THEM, BUT I can't reallocate them to something else.

Speaker 38I guess where I'm stumbling a little bit is why this is a capital improvement project. This is a policy development project. It seems to me to be something that could fit in more than one place, and there would be some flexibility around that. We're not building a bridge.

JC MartinezstaffAnd I would say that when it was originally appropriated in 2004, 2005, that's the fund that the project manager or the person sponsoring the project identified them to go. So they're within that fund right now.

Speaker 38I recognize that. I'm just double-checking to see if it could not be reallocated in some place that matches the cash flow reality of what would happen with an extension. I

Parham Jabarimean,

Brian Fosterstaffyou can... We're talking to you. The cash flow was, I don't want to say it's not relevant, but it's not relevant to this discussion. The money you're talking about was appropriated in prior years. So in essence, it's from a budgetary perspective. It's already not truly spent from a cash perspective, but it's already done. You put it in the fund. I'm not disagreeing with you. Why is it in CIP? I don't have an answer for you. There's lots of things that shouldn't be in the CIP that are in the CIP. And as we previously communicated, we're going to work on getting that corrected to where it should operate as a truly capital plan. But to what you're asking is we can stretch it out. if that's the desire, but it's not going to help you balance this budget.

You would have to, and I guess you could remove it from the CIP, but then you have no way to pay for it. I guess you could take the funding out of the CIP and the project out of the CIP, but again, it's money that's over and done with. You haven't spent the cash yet. but from a process perspective, it's in the past. You can't undo it from that perspective. It's money you've already spent.

Speaker 38Yeah, I think the point of confusion is that we've been through a lot of CIP things, some of which we don't even know about yet, that turns out they're probably not going to move forward or don't need to or could be done on a delayed basis, and we've been rearranging them. I mean, we heard from Parks and Rec, we still don't know what that full list looks like, that you know we've been moving things around and CIP right and stuff Again, we're still on that discovery process here But in this case we can't do that and I'm sure I'm missing something that we'll need to follow up on But again, that's just a little bit confusing that we've gone through that process on other issues When you say

Brian FosterstaffI'm not sure I follow you on that

Speaker 38Parks and Rec identified yeah 1.6 correct

Brian Fosterstaffyes and that money is in CIP they're not going to do that they're not going to do those projects that money is already in the CIP and it is supplanting adding money to put in it's it's it's your you instead of putting in new money to do the schools it's money you're you're reducing the cash transfer you're you're offsetting what was expected to be the cash transfer to do with in essence money that you have already allocated. That's how you save, or that's how you impact the budget. So if you want to use that 440 to impact the budget, the way it will impact the budget is you cannot do the project, or I should say not do, to postpone the project to some future date, use the money that's already been appropriated to offset the cash transfer.

that's a half cent of real estate tax, but then you have no funding to do your study until you, at some point, come up with money to do the study.

Speaker 38Well, again, it's, thank you, confusing and frustrating because it's an example of where the cash flow side of this is not lining up with it, apparently in a cruel approach here.

Brian FosterstaffCorrect. This is not private sector accounting. We're not on a cash basis. So it's fund accounting. That's just how government accounting is done. Right, wrong, or indifferent, that's how it's done. We're not on a cash basis. And so we do fund accounting, and that's how this process works. And I can sense you're frustrated with that with my answer, but that's how it works.

Speaker 38Well, but, I mean, I am familiar with public accounting that's done both ways. I mean, for all sorts of purposes. So, I mean, that's a longer thing we can talk about after the budget's over in terms of how we manage these things. There is going to be an interesting anomaly between the actual cash flow and the fund-based accounting that happens here because of a bunch of timing reasons, and we'll be very interested to see at some point what that actually looks like at it on a cash basis to see how much we actually needed and spent. All that said, if that's not something we can do right now to help here, it's too bad. I just wanted to see for sure because the whole pool of CIP stuff is a really big one

for us to attempt to do something constructive with. Councilmember

Catherine ReadHall.

Stacy HallSo before we jump into scenario five, are there any opportunities in our supplies or other charges throughout all these other various budgets? I know I had brought that up before. We never really drilled down into all of them. but is there nowhere to look in there and find a few hundred thousand dollars that is not going to be missed by not doing it for one year or something that's really not significant in all of these different departments so insignificant that it just got called other i

JC Martinezstaffi would hope and i would think that the department heads listed those items already in their 10% exercise. I'd have to go through what was sent out to council and provided by all the department heads, but I think a good portion of that was related to non-personnel costs, but I'd have to go through line by line and figure that out for you.

Stacy HallOkay, well, I guess I need to go back through the 10% budget since we're still trying to iron things out. So, thank you.

Catherine ReadAll right, so are we going to start from the bottom?

JC Martinezstaffnow. So given scenario 5, Hall at two and a half cents, no change to the meals tax. If that is sort of the starting point, the items on red there, I guess starting from the bottom up as well, I'm assuming everyone would be okay with the 1819 going away from communications which is .25 FTE that is not being utilized and nor is there expectation of it being utilized right now.

Stacy HallThere were other obsolete items too from that that he had listed as obsolete.

JC MartinezstaffThat equaled that amount. I'm hearing okay. $95,000 which would impact revenue reduction, no change to the annual fee for the senior programming. Would everyone be okay with that as a potential reflection of the new scenario?

Stacy HallAs in not charging?

JC Martinezstaffcharging as keeping the FY25 approved amount the same. Next item would be a total reduction of the nonprofit grants. This was a new initiative in FY25. We had set aside $300,000. dollars in this instance all three hundred thousand dollars would go away as well

Stacey Hardy-ChandlerI'm not comfortable with that yeah I think there's Bates

Catherine ReadAmos and Hardy Chandler could

Stacy Hallwe agree on two hundred thousand because right now there's 217 I don't think we need to leave extra wiggle room for other opportunities to request money and I think you also mentioned before about the Salvation Army consideration?

Anthony AmosI

Nicholas Lawrencepublic commentincluded in the plan, I was just at 200K,

Anthony Amosso I can be amenable to 200K for the year, but I would prefer to come back at some point.

Catherine ReadOkay,

Gwen Riddlestaffit looks

Catherine Readlike Council Member Bates is not cool with 200, but everybody else seems to be. So

JC Martinezstafflet me just clarify, not reducing it by 200, but reducing it by 100 to

Stacey Hardy-Chandler200.

JC MartinezstaffPerfect.

Stacey Hardy-ChandlerSo that it remains, sorry, yes. Go ahead.

JC MartinezstaffAre you keeping notes,

Speaker 50by chance? If not, we can go back to the recording.

JC MartinezstaffNext item is 392,000 reduction on the Renaissance housing funding that would, again, very similar to the previous item, would be zeroed out for FY26.

Anthony AmosCan we just do this gladiator style? Yeah, we can do a gladiator style.

Catherine ReadYes,

JC Martinezstaffokay.

Catherine ReadOkay, it sounds like

Anthony Amosit's

JC Martinezstaffunanimous. Next item, I feel like a bidder saying next item up for bid. Sorry. Next item, $440,000, no merit for the general employees. In this instance, it does include the public safety step which is funded. So I'm seeing three. This looks split. Maybe discussion there?

Speaker 38Is this an area where back to my earlier question mark there's a partial plus a market rate at the top, market rate adjustment at the top we might consider?

Stacy HallDo we know what that might look like?

JC MartinezstaffI'm going to go very quick here. So each half a percent, yeah, each half a percent is roughly equivalent to about $63,000. When you're looking at three and a half percent merit, it equals, if I got this right, you have $440,000. So each half percent is about $63,000. So if we were to reduce it by a percent, that's $120,000. That'd be a 2.5% merit.

Stacy HallBut what if we did a lower merit and then just include, I think like Tom said, a market rate adjustment. Sorry, this is falling in my mouth. For those at the top.

JC MartinezstaffI think we'd have to calculate the market rate adjustment. So that's not included in this. that would be a smaller amount because you're only affecting the top and the bottom of the range there are some employees that are at the bottom and there are some employees that are at the top i would have to work with payroll and hr to figure out what that was because that was not a part of even the proposed manager scenario

Stacy Hallyeah i would be curious to know what that looks like

JC Martinezstaffokay and and in the past we've done a two percent market rate adjustment is that the potential starting point or something else?

Catherine ReadHow are people feeling too?

Stacy HallOne percent?

Gwen RiddlestaffYou

Catherine Readknow, at some point, one percent is just an insult. Really. I mean, yeah, well, you know, people have bills to pay to who work for us. And while I would, I want to not burden our property tax payers, instead we're burdening our employees. them to maintain the same level of services to our community but you know their expenses go up and we're not taking care of them so to me a 1% increase I'm just speaking for myself is an insult

Anthony AmosI'll just say oh sorry but go ahead Councilmember Bates

Billy Batesso I would be comfortable going down to 2.4% that is the current year-over-year inflation rate according to the Census Bureau for the DC area somewhat arbitrary but that I think is what I could go down to I

Anthony Amoscould be amenable to that

Catherine Readokay 2.4 councilmember Amos councilmember Hardy Chandler that councilmember Peterson Bates

Susan Kylerpublic comment2.4

Catherine Readokay so it looks like we have

Susan Kylerpublic commentfour that

Catherine Readare yes and two that are no is that am I counting correct am I counting noses on the 2.4 that's Amos Hardy Chandler Peterson and Bates

JC Martinezstaffclarification if I may 2.4% merit no market rate adjustment

Brian FosterstaffNo.

JC MartinezstaffJust clarifying. That's what I heard. Just clarifying.

Catherine ReadIs that what everybody heard? Excluding

JC Martinezstaffmarket rate?

Speaker 38I actually didn't. Why are we excluding market rate?

JC MartinezstaffOne, I don't know what that cost is going to be. It's not going to be significant. I would assume 2% would probably be about $40,000, $50,000 if that. I heard 2.4% merit and a 2% market rate adjustment.

Speaker 38I'm wondering how much support we have for 2.0 across the board.

JC MartinezstaffIt's a question for your colleagues, sir.

Catherine ReadSo 2%, is that something people are willing to do? Two? Is that the bottom that we're willing to? Can we establish that that's the bottom? That is the bottom? Okay, it sounds like three. Okay, it sounds like we have at least four who are not willing to go below two. Okay, one more.

Stacey Hardy-ChandlerIf I could just make a comment. I mean, people need to see it on their paychecks.

Stacy HallI feel like people are seeing a paycheck which some government employees are not that's just me

Catherine ReadI

Rachel McQuillenjust want to remind people that a lot of people are just lucky to keep their jobs this next year going into this economy I'm not trying to diminish the roles that our staff play or the service that we receive but when we're talking about increasing real estate tax rate and taking more money out of people's pockets, we do have to recognize that at the same time, if we're giving our staff increased raise and things like that, even with market, I'm just saying that's not happening for most people right

Catherine Readnow. And I would say that we need to take out some of the things these employees support, like the 4th of July, fireworks, which is not a must-have, and all the Rock the Blocks, which are not a must-have. and our employees set up, clean up, and run them. And so that's not something that is deserving that our community is paying for. And I don't know why our employees should feel like they've got to deliver this premium quality of life in our city when no one wants to pay them. Council Member Amos.

Anthony AmosJust to add, I still prefer the 3.5. why I say that is because over the next few years we don't know what the budget is going to look like and it is quite possible especially if we don't get the 1% that we won't be able to increase merit next year the year after at least through 2030 2031 2032 that is on the table so that's why I would recommend doing the full 3.5 I can be amenable to two but nothing below that

Stacy Hallif I may

Catherine Readyes Councilmember Hall I

Stacy Hallunderstand what you're saying and I respect it but I also think that the citizens of our city pay taxes because they want to be able to attend some of these free things and maybe instead of being able to go on a vacation this year they're going to enjoy the heck out of every single rock the block and every other free event that we put on because that's all our family can afford to do this year because one of their spouses lost their job meanwhile and again i appreciate all of our workers but meanwhile all of our employees still have a job we didn't lay off anybody we just didn't overly merit reward them because it's a tough spot that we're in so thank you

Catherine Readcouncil member amos

Anthony Amosyeah and just so we don't go far too down this rabbit hole again we have a parks foundation to try to get private money to cover those events well they're supposed to assist with sponsorships that's one of the things yes we're looking for sponsorship opportunities for our our events that are run by parks and if if we're not doing that then we should be but the county they do summer concerts all the time that are completely free because they're covered by private donors so we have an opportunity to do that as well so that's not just an end-all be-all here

Catherine Readcouncilmember Hardy Chandler to

Stacey Hardy-Chandlermy mind it's not our residents versus our employees it's our residents and our employees and we should support what they do in service to our residents our there's a cost to losing them also that our residents will pay in addition to that so different perspectives on it but even if it's for different reasons.

Speaker 38Are we done on this one?

Catherine ReadWell yes Mr. Martinez.

JC MartinezstaffJust just to clarify because I was slightly distracted two percent merit, cola, whatever you want to call it and a two percent market rate adjustment is that what was I did I miss something in between I'm

Stacy Hallsorry are you adding in 2% market for the high end people or you're adding it in addition to the 2% merit so

JC Martinezstaffthe market rate adjustment what that does is it resets the scale of the of the salary so each grade has a starting point and a high point we're talking the

Stacy Hallstep

JC Martinezstaffno nope so each classification has a beginning salary range and an ending salary like a cap the market rate adjustment adjusts that percent by two percent so if it was a hundred thousand dollars where you're starting it's now being moved to a hundred and two if you were at a hundred thousand dollars you would automatically get a two thousand dollar increase because that is new that's the new bottom if you were at the top range THAT, IF THE TOP WAS $100,000, WE WOULD DO A MARKET RATE ADJUSTMENT OF 2%. NOW YOU WOULD BE ELIGIBLE TO GET A 2,000 OR 2% INCREASE WHEN THAT AVAILABILITY CAME AS FAR AS THE MERIT. IT'S JUST THE RANGE.

Stacy HallI'M GOING TO GO WITH A NO ON THAT ONE.

Speaker 38I WOULD MAYBE JUST KEEP IT SIMPLE AND DO THE TWO MERIT AND LEAVE IT AT THAT. Okay, folks.

Catherine ReadI'm looking at all of you. Okay, it looks like leave it at 2% merit.

JC MartinezstaffNext item was a $500,000 pay study. AS WAS PREVIOUSLY DISCUSSED, THIS MOSTLY IMPACTS THE PROPERTY YARD, THOSE INDIVIDUALS THAT ARE IN THE GENERAL FUND, THOSE THAT ARE ALSO IN DIFFERENT FUNDS, SPECIFICALLY WASTEDWATER, STORMWATER AND TRANSIT, THOSE SPECIFIC FUNDS WOULD ABSORB WHATEVER THOSE INCREASES WOULD BE. THIS IS ONLY DISPLAYING THE GENERAL FUND SIDE OF THINGS.

Stacy HallI'm going to go with exclude. Thumbs up.

Catherine ReadCouncil Member Hardy-Chandler.

Stacey Hardy-ChandlerI recall we were talking about this towards the beginning. Just to clarify, would this increase the pay for those who, with its impact, those who are toward the lower end of the pay scale the most?

JC MartinezstaffYes. So the majority of these have a pay inequity where for some reason they have been here X number of years or have X number of experience but are not being paid comparable to someone who has an equivalent number of years of experience doing the exact same job.

Stacey Hardy-ChandlerThank you.

Catherine ReadSo the question on the table is do we make an adjustment based on pay and equity as it has been identified in this study? Right. So can I see a thumbs up on supporting the $500,000 pay study implementation?

JC MartinezstaffI see two.

Speaker 38Okay. I have a clarifying question, if I might. You know, when you do salary surveys, sometimes people are above norm and sometimes they're below norm, right? So this is strictly bringing them up, not anybody adjusting or holding somebody who's possibly too high.

Gwen RiddlestaffThere are people that are not getting the increase because they are in parity with their payers. So there are multiple people that are right where they should be. and no one would ever be losing where their salary is.

Catherine ReadAll right. So it looks like we have one, two, three, four. This is for the $500,000 to keep it. Implement it. Implement it. It looks like we've got at least five for that.

Speaker 38Well, on that one, one thing that maybe wasn't totally clear is whether this is 100% or none. Is there anything in this that's a partial option that makes sense?

JC MartinezstaffThat is a good question. AND THAT IS A VERY HARD QUESTION FOR ME TO TRY TO ANSWER. THE INEQUITIES HAVE EXISTED, AS I MENTIONED, SINCE THE BEGINNING OF 2024. IT'S BEEN OVER A YEAR. IF THIS WERE TO TAKE INTO EFFECT, IT WOULD BE JANUARY 1 OF THIS YEAR. SO IT WOULD BE ALMOST 18 MONTHS. I DON'T KNOW IF THE EMPLOYEES EVEN KNOW THAT THERE ARE INEQUITIES. I WOULD THINK THAT THEY PROBABLY DO BECAUSE EVERYONE TALKS ABOUT WHAT THEIR SALARIES ARE. I DON'T KNOW. I CAN'T REALLY SPEAK FOR THEM, BUT I WOULD THINK THAT THEY WOULD BE HAPPY FOR ANY INCREASE. THIS IS JUST WHAT THE ANALYSIS AND THE PAY STUDIES SHOWED TO BRING EVERYONE, THOSE THAT WERE LAGGING, TO AN EQUITABLE RATE COMPARED TO THEIR PEERS DOING THE EXACT SAME JOB.

I don't know if I fully answered your

Speaker 38question. It's a tough one because neither of us have the data in front of us to know how this distributes and whether there's a critical set that really are ultra priorities that comprise half of these funds and the other are arguably things that could be postponed a bit. But we don't know the answer to that without looking at that distribution. But that would be sort of my question mark is whether there is something that comes out of it that indicates that that we could take advantage of. happy for that to be a follow-up to see whether there's some flexibility here based on that kind of look, if that's information you could actually get access to.

JC MartinezstaffSo the spreadsheet and the data, and it was in an Excel spreadsheet, so you can manipulate it and form it whichever way you want. That information is there. And to Gwen's point, not everyone that's listed on there is getting an increase. It is just those that were in an an equitable position or situation.

Speaker 38Right, but if there are varying degrees of inequity, if there are those that are glaring inequities that simply can't wait and others are marginal and can, that's important possibly to know. Correct. Because it's a big chunk to do all at once. It

JC Martinezstaffis. And I think that was the previous discussion with the city manager of, because it was such a large chunk, instead of rectifying it right then and there and impacting the budget and it now becoming a part of the base going forward, let's try to be a little more cognizant and plan for it in the FY26 budget development process.

Speaker 38I'm not sure what we do here, except at a minimum I'd like an asterisk on this if we decide to move forward so that you have the opportunity to do that second look there's something that might constitute a partial here that makes sense.

JC MartinezstaffI don't remember the vote count if there was four or five.

Stacy HallThis administration, it's just like dump, dump, dump, and it's super frustrating. and I blame prior councils I blame federal administration I just I can't it's just a lot it's a lot and I hope our residents realize that I hope our employees realize that because I'm feeling like a jerk up here not agreeing to things but it's it's a lot Thank

Catherine Readyou Councilmember Hardy Chandler and then Councilmember Amos

Stacey Hardy-ChandlerI think a clearer division quallon suggested earlier is the next item in terms of reducing training and travel and i appreciated the split of supporting training and maybe limiting travel that to me makes clearer sense it doesn't get to a fairness question where i've done i've been a part of multiple compensation studies it's hard to do some splitting there when you're trying to bring people up to fairness So I would like that conversation more in terms of travel versus training, supporting and including training, pulling out travel for FY26.

Speaker 38I'm sorry, did we wrap up the prior issue? May we do that?

Catherine ReadSo, you know, my two cents worth, you know, pay inequities when you talk about the property yard, These are some of our employees who work the hardest, the longest, doing the toughest jobs manually. And we are trying to solve a pay inequity. And I'm sure they are grateful to have their jobs. They show up every day to do the jobs. Our residents are thrilled at their curbside pickup, and we have reliable Q bus drivers, and all the people who work down there doing the jobs that I don't think unemployed federal contractors are going to want to do. I do think this is important as a city to address inequities among our employees. Our residents prize more than anything else probably our parks and rec

and our public works employees. and when these folks who are not at the highest pay scale in our staff know that there are inequities because they do know what their coworkers make, to me this is a priority to solve this problem. And $500,000 may sound like a lot, but spread that across these people. Look at their take-home pay after the deductions, and it's a little bit of money. who now is in an economy where, yeah, everyone's talked tonight, the restaurant owners, about how expensive food is. A little bit of money in your paycheck makes a big difference in how you are living your life. And I don't think it's too much for us to ask this city to do that for these employees. Council Member Amos.

Anthony AmosAll I was going to say is that, look, in my opinion, everyone here is doing a great job. There's some structural things I think we could work on, but that can wait until post-budget. But we were given a lot, mostly a new council, and honestly, from the conversations I've had with the community and from the testimonies we've heard, we've been afforded a lot of grace because we are dealing with a very unique situation between the school bond, the administration, and some of the grant money, and the uncertainty of the economy. So keep working. We'll get through it. It's okay. It's okay. at the end of the day we got we're gonna move forward

Catherine Readso can we just go back around again to for

Brian Fosterstaffthe pace the pace yeah but I what we we can what we believe we saw was that the majority of you supported including keeping that in the budget yes we I mean we can we can go and reevaluate if the sort of the criticality of them. I don't know what exactly that, I mean we have the spread, the amounts vary depending on how out of whack some of the folks are. So the reality would be at least on a surface level would be that the ones that are most critical are probably also the largest amounts. You might I mean, if that's where the most disparity is, that's probably the ones where you wouldn't want to wait. So you would not get, you would probably not achieve the level of reduction by trying to make that, to do that analysis, that's all I'm saying.

Speaker 38I would only add, I agree, except in terms of how you measure largest, you might try it on a percentage basis to see which ones have the greatest percentage variances. True, true. And again, at the low end, if that pops up at the low end, that could be super critical stuff.

Brian FosterstaffWe can do that, yes. On the travel and training, not to jump ahead, I know we've got more to go through. The suggestion I would make, I know,

Speaker 38I'll look behind them.

Brian FosterstaffThat 535, is that, in this one, is that a zero out? Okay, I'm just going to, if you, what I would say is I think we can, we hear what you're saying. What I would say is even if you zeroed it out, we would still need to find money to do what I would say is the, you know, a paramedic to get recertified in order to do his job we're going to pay for that whether you zero out training or not and so what i would say is those kinds of trainings where people need to maintain certifications what i would for lack of better term i'm going to call mandatory we would still do and that may include travel they may have to go to richmond or some place in order to make that happen what I would guess what I would assure you is is is and I don't

know what the number is I'm I'm leaning towards around 400 or so is rather than reducing 535 I think we could reduce around 400 with the commitment that what we would only do necessary training and we would not do any travel unless it's necessary it's it's needed for or if it's required for the necessary training certainly any other trainings we can bring in house you know free trainings online virtual we can still continue to do that but I think that that's how we would manage that and I think that's that would be my suggestion to the group

Catherine Readcouncilmember

Stacey Hardy-ChandlerHardy Chandler that would be acceptable we heard from staff that there are mandatory trainings that are needed for certification we need it we people do and organizations to be accredited and so those would be accepted it would not be hard and fast but if there are optional trainings that are that that require or things that require travel that are optional or would like then those would be the ones that would be right

Brian Fosterstaffso for it so for example most of our staff have or belong to professional associations excellent training opportunities would not say that they are absolute mandatory required for certification so that might be the kind of thing we would skip this year but if I need somebody to you know if the the assessment staff needs to get their license renewed and require that CPE we would pay for that and make sure that happens so they can they're still have their license or paramedics or whatever could be a variety of departments but we want them whatever they need to do their job but it would also say sometimes certifications are are not necessarily mandatory they're nice to have and that just helps them

you know be more qualified but it's maybe not a requirement of the job but again we were that's that's the distinction we would try to make and limit that funding so my see and I'm looking at JC he gave me a nod we would suggest we could do 400 which wouldn't zero it out but that would be the total reduce so the reduction wouldn't be 535 because this in this scenario zeroes it out but we'd reduce it 400 and we'll try and see we should be able to hopefully make do and obviously if we don't need to spend it we won't but that's just that gives us a target number

Stacy HallI'm sorry so you're saying instead of 535 we would leave 135,000 in the budget?

Brian FosterstaffCorrect.

Stacy HallOkay. Why did I think when we did the 535 initially that that was still allowing for mandatory travel, mandatory training?

JC MartinezstaffNo?

Stacy HallI mean, I trust your numbers over mine,

JC Martinezstafffor

Stacy Hallsure.

JC Martinezstaff535 is zeroed out. All departments, all travel and training. Okay. Thank you. At that time. Sure.

Catherine ReadSo people are good with 135 for travel and training for continuing education, anything deemed necessary? Everybody's good? Is there a thumbs up on that? Okay.

Speaker 38Presuming it's not requiring travel to Las Vegas or Europe.

Stacey Hardy-ChandlerCorrect.

Catherine ReadActually, Council Member Hardy-Chandler?

Stacey Hardy-ChandlerBeing from Las Vegas, that's a fine place to have training. Thank you very much. Go Vegas Golden Knights.

Catherine ReadOkay, so that brings us to the police reduction?

JC MartinezstaffIt does. I do have one. I only have one sheet, though. So if you want, I can try to read it. And this is directly from the police chief. There's the cover memo. Budget savings 5%. Executive reduction of $332,000. PEER SUPPORT SERVICES TRAINING, PROMOTIONAL TESTING, MENTAL HEALTH PATIENT SITTING. CRIMINAL INVESTIGATIONS, REDUCTION OF $68,000 ENCOMPASSES TRAINING TWO CADET POSITION TIMPS, WHICH EQUALS $62,000 OF THE 68. PATROL OPERATIONS, REDUCTION OF $369,500, which encompasses training, EST, CNT, CDU, I don't know what those are, on-call, breaching kits, shields, e-bikes. Of the 369, there are four officer position temps, $320,000 of the 369,500. ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES REDUCTION OF 134,000.

M.V.R. REPAIR CONTRACT TRAINING. ADDITIONALLY TEMP HELP ONE DISPATCHER ONE PROPERTY EVIDENCE TECHNICIAN WHICH IS 116,000 OF THE 134. PROFESSIONAL STANDARDS REDUCTION OF 119. INCENTIVES FOR INSTRUCTORSHIP AND SPECIALTY PAYS. TEMP HELP RANGE MASTERS OF $70,000 OF THE $119,000. AND THEN LASTLY, COMMUNITY SERVICES, $30,000 TRAINING BY TEAM GEAR AND EQUIPMENT. SO THE BREAKUP THAT SHE HAD HERE WAS $488,500 IN EQUIPMENT, TRAINING AND INCENTIVES PROGRAMS, 568 in temp help wages for a total of 1 million 56,500

Catherine Readyes mr. foster if

Brian Fosterstaffi may if if council wants to consider some alternate amount rather than worrying about where they are is pick your number and we'll and let the police chief determine what things to keep and not in terms of so if if you want to split the difference of the million do half a million then she can and her team can determine how to spend that half a million or 750 or 250 or whatever number if you're wanting to consider an alternate number my suggestion would not be to try and figure out those things let she she and her team know best how to wear that how to spend that she was identifying things that could be saved as part of the exercise so if this is if council is willing to consider an alternative

amount that you all can agree with let's just agree on the amount she can take and her team can take care of where to place it

Catherine Readokay councilmember Peterson well

Speaker 38the other way though that this could happen but I know the timing is not right here, is for her to tell us what is it that will maintain a full protective level of safety for the committee here, for the city rather, and what is that amount? I mean, we came in with the five, but there's more. There's a five plus in the questions. How much of that plus falls in the category? No, this is really critical to have. No, it's not critical to have right now. That would, to me, tell us where the number is, and I don't know where that falls. I agree. the thing is impossible for us to do but that that's the other way to look at it

Brian Fosterstafffair but her comment which I pulled up mr. Bates read to you is they could still maintain full staff and she told you what was impacted but with the million-dollar reduction so again at least the last time the three of you did not really like that option so it's either either you can leave we can leave it in because there's not four votes to take it out or you could agree on an alternative number and my suggestion is again is let let her and her team determine what's the best to your point to continue to continue the function we can certainly report that back to you but rather than trying to figure out what that is what you know because anything is better i mean uh losing some amount less than a

million is better than losing the whole thing so we can figure out how to best spend that or she can figure out how to best allocate that where it is best for her department and for the community I

Catherine Readthink Councilmember Bates has something

Billy Batesso I just want to kind of add to my stance on this I would be willing to support a reduction if that reduction is recommended by the city manager and or the police chief that they say that this you know whatever we're cutting is really just not worth the cost and we've you know gone back and figured that out whatever that amount is. So I don't know what that amount might be that we might want to go back for, but I mean, whatever it is, if we have a recommendation that that reduction is actually recommended over the full amount because whatever we're cutting is just not really worth it right now, then I could support that reduction.

Catherine ReadCouncil Member Hardy Chandler?

Stacey Hardy-ChandlerSo I agree with Council Member Peterson for the Chief to tell us what proportion with the parameter that the decisions for the cut truly take in long-term impacts, not just positions for now or whatever those elements are that we're thinking in terms of safety, but also what might be a stepping stone for their long-term plan. The other thing is you said we should keep it in if there are not votes to take it out. It's only in because we're starting with scenario five. If we started with an earlier scenario, there wouldn't be three votes to put it in. So I just want to make sure that this is not the decided on scenario. Fair enough. We

Brian Fosterstaffhad

Stacey Hardy-Chandlerto have a

Brian Fosterstaffstarting point. This was the starting

Stacey Hardy-Chandlerpoint we were working from. So I'm okay to, and I think this kind of echoes what Council Member Bates was saying, if she wants to propose a smaller number with the guidance that it isn't just a cut, it's a cut that doesn't have long-term consequences, thinking more broadly than I could support that

Brian FosterstaffI was certainly consult with her and her her team and and can come back with something what I would I think what I would offer is that the original budget proposal didn't have any of this this reduction in it and it was a way to identify things that could you know but you when you talk about its incentives it's training it's all the things we've been talking about so yeah it you know can you forego that for a year for a short period of time I mean I think what she's saying is yes we can do that is that the bet I mean is that best for the long-term operations of the department considering that you've talked about you know the the the previous study that was done and so that with that we had we were will have to build up towards and this is would this

put us further behind if the goal is to try and get us to some of the things that that plan talked about

Catherine Readcouncilmember Hardy Chandler

Stacey Hardy-Chandlerthat's exactly my point you know if it interferes with our competitiveness in this market then I would want her to not offer that up so let me add to my guidance that she can also come back to us with zero

Catherine Readcouncilmember Bates

Billy Batesuh yeah and that um that's sort of what i was getting at i mean if the recommendation is that um you know the recommended course of action is to not cut anything then i would not support cutting anything and also i want to look at make sure that we're looking at um not just you know is this recommended for this year but is this recommended as a permanent cut um i meant to add that earlier because we want to be looking again long term um i mean i don't think that we taking a bite out of the police budget then adding it back and then taking it out adding it back I don't think that that's really very healthy for for any department especially in public safety given the amount of stress that they're

all under even more so perhaps in other departments so yeah definitely agree with councilmember Hardy Chandler on that

Brian Fosterstaffit's not a permanent reduction

Catherine Readright so

Brian Fosterstaffit's not being it was not proposed as a permanent reduction

Catherine Readso so for because we're trying to work our way toward a tax rate. For purposes of trying to get there, should there be a placeholder number? Is there, like, a placeholder number that says suggestions? So

JC Martinezstaffwhat I would suggest is just a suggestion, but understanding what the manager and everyone else has sort of communicated. Leave the 5%, the 1,056,500, as a placeholder now, confirm with the police chief if that is an accurate number and or if it can be modified down if it's modified down it would be incumbent upon the finance team and budget to figure out what the Delta is and identify that gap

Catherine Readright right so that would just benefit the tax rate to be able to reduce it if reducing it is something the chief says she wants to do

JC Martinezstaffcorrect

Catherine Readis everybody okay with this as a This is a placeholder number to get us to a tax rate. Council Member Peterson?

Speaker 38Just to clarify, so we've got a million and change here that is being shown as a reduction.

JC MartinezstaffCorrect.

Speaker 38And we're adding it back in? No, we're leaving

JC Martinezstaffit. We're leaving it in. We're leaving it in.

Speaker 38Leaving it as a reduction, but she can come up with a recommendation. Correct. So

Brian Fosterstaffleaving it as a reduction. and so just the million dollars is 1.2 cents or roughly is what you're talking about of a tax rate impact if if you put it back

Billy Batesin

Catherine ReadCouncilmember Bates

Billy BatesOne more question the Well, this is kind of about both this one and the next item, but The well first off the non urgent freezing non urgent vacancies did that include temp positions or only permanent positions

Brian Fosterstaffno this if those are FTE I mean it's not eliminating but it would be freezing FTEs full-time or and or part-time as they become vacant and we would again we we still need to better define it but the term we're using right now is not urgent so again if if public safety presumably would be considered urgent. So if there was a vacancy, that's something we'd fill. If it was an administrative position, that's probably not considered urgent. We wouldn't fill that, but that would be frozen for some period of time. So it would be sort of on a case-by-case basis, depending on what our staffing is. For example, some public works positions, say like a fleet mechanic, might be considered urgent, but a different public works position may not be considered as urgent.

So again, we can't necessarily tell you each what would be or what wouldn't be, but we would be evaluating that as that happened.

Billy BatesRight. So I guess the one thing I would say is that with the vacant temp positions, not just within the police department, but at large, if we could maybe look at those with the same criteria the 1 million for freezing non-urgent vacancies already? Absolutely. I'm sorry.

Brian FosterstaffMaybe I'm, I guess I misunderstood. I was just, that we were intending that freeze to be regular positions. Certainly temps would be, that we would look at the same way.

Billy BatesOkay. So that, so that million does include potentially temps as well?

Brian FosterstaffYes.

Billy BatesOkay. So, well, actually that kind of follow up to that then, so all those temp positions that were included in the 5% reduction aren't necessarily an additional so you were saying that you did not include any public safety under that non-urgent vacancy so even the temp vacancies in public safety are considered to be urgent vacancies

Stacy Hallno

Brian Fosterstaffwhat I would say is that million dollars that number that's there is our best calculation of what we would save by freezing non-urgent positions. We don't actually have specific positions with the exception of the the one exception that is the Debbie City manager was certainly in there we would not that would be one that we would not fill but as far as other positions I can't necessarily say it's these positions that we were looking at that is a you know a number we feel very comfortable with if we could save more we would or we would we we would absolutely do that and part of it is we it's something that we would be monitoring as the year goes on so it could be that we if we have lots of turnover we can freeze positions for less than maybe we would need to but if

we don't have much turnover then some positions would be frozen for much longer and again it's part of that is that's a management issue in terms of how we how these things come up because we can't necessarily predict which things might become vacant or or remain filled okay

Billy Batesso I guess the the you know the one last thing is that from what it sounds like we want to make sure that you know the the 5% police reduction if or whatever comes back to us if that includes temps you know is that in addition to the million or you know partially in addition to it and partially overlapping with it or you know whatever that might come out to me I understand that million is not really is more of an estimate but but just something to kind of consider

Catherine Readcouncilmember Peterson

Speaker 38and thank you those are really great questions I guess question, which is can you work with this number?

Brian FosterstaffWork with it in what? I mean, do you mean you want it to be larger?

Speaker 38No, no, no. I don't mean can it be larger. You just essentially explain this is an estimate and it's just it will require further management

Brian Fosterstaffgoing forward. Yes, and what I would tell you is that we would, if the million dollars is what we need to achieve, then we're going to manage it to make sure we get at least a million dollars over the course of the year. Which means we may freeze positions for longer than we'd like, but if that's what it takes to get us to the number, that's what we'll end up doing.

Speaker 38My only hesitancy slash recommendation would be if upon further examination you find out that that is requiring freezes of a duration that are not wise to do for some reason. I certainly wouldn't want to force that, right? So there needs to be perhaps a little bit of flexibility on discovery here, right?

Brian FosterstaffSure. I mean, absolutely. I mean, it's up to us to manage. and so certainly if there's if we were to get well into the year and we're finding that we weren't having issues with with that number we would certainly come back to you and it would either we'd have to get a supplemental or come up with something different yes

Catherine Readso so is that million dollar is is everybody good with that is that a million dollars it looks like that everybody is good with that number so it takes us to the CIP not

Anthony Amosnot to rush how do we feel about the next three does do we want to pull one out or because we've talked a lot I think about those three and I think the plan is kind of I don't know if we need to did anyone have any questions about them or can we just kind of go up to the other items.

Speaker 38That all depends on whether I'm allowed to vote twice for things.

Anthony AmosYeah. Okay. And then I know that I think the only things that were really different on mine were the addition of the efficiency audit and the Sprout grant, if I'm correct.

Catherine ReadYeah.

Anthony AmosYou

Catherine Readwant me to go to that slide if we're finished with the hall. We'll go to Amos 4.2.

Anthony AmosThat one, yeah. So I think those are the only two that we have not discussed. So how does everyone feel about Sprout Grant? Do we want to fund that through fiscal year or would that end this year? How do we feel about appropriating an additional $118,000 to fund Sprout Grant through? It's just through next fiscal year, correct?

Speaker 38This

Gwen Riddlestaffwill be to fund the position that was defunded with the federal government ending the Sprout grant.

Anthony AmosYeah, that came up at our April 5th work retreat when we all found out at the same time.

Speaker 38This is 12 months?

Catherine ReadYes.

Gwen RiddlestaffBut the grant has been canceled. Correct. So we have found funding through the end of this fiscal year for her or for the position, which would end if there was no additional funding found.

Stacey Hardy-ChandlerYes. Council Member Hardy Chandler. And that includes fringe and benefits and all of that stuff, which is folded in there. Okay.

Stacy Hallif we didn't continue with this role we would lose the outreach programs that we're doing as far as like training super volunteers invasive control can you kind of comment just on some of our highlights of what the role does

JC Martinezstaffand I think you're absolutely right I saw I at the April 6 third meeting I actually had of the position's job description. I think the manager actually read it. To your point, I think it was everything and other items that I cannot recall off the top of my head right now. But yes, what you stated and more.

Stacy HallAre there other costs associated with that role that if we are not thinking about those then we wouldn't be able to do X Y & Z events that are not funded elsewhere or was that not included in the grant at all and it was just straight up salary and benefits and then those other things are included somewhere else in like an ESC or Public Works budget you know I'm saying okay

JC MartinezstaffBrooke has a cheat sheet that will provide some clarifying

Stacy Hallshe can't do anything so and

Brooke HardenstaffI and I hopefully this was shared previously I'm sure

Stacy Hallit was there's a lot of

Brooke Hardenstaffthe things but the urban forester looked at if the grant were to be canceled but the CIP items continue to be funded and the stewardship coordinator was funded there would be a reduction in the amount of services activities that that position would provide but we would continue to do the invasive management the contract services associated with that the education and outreach associated with that role in working with the the Mason and fellow, the volunteer programming, the forest rescues program coordinating. This year it was 213 volunteer hours, continuing that into FY26, the residential tree giveaway program, tree planting on public property, tree watering and establishment care, and tree removals for invasives or vulnerable species all of those activities would still proceed

albeit at a reduced rate with the stewardship coordinator remaining in employment for fy26

Catherine Readcouncilmember hardy chandler where would all

Stacey Hardy-Chandlerof that fall if not coordinated by

Brooke Hardenstaffthis position it would be they would be either canceled or dramatically reduced if it were just other staff that were that were responsible for this so to go through that list the invasive management would be heavily reduced more reduced than it would be otherwise education outreach would be heavily reduced things like the force rescues program the residential tree giveaway the city jobs program relationship with that would all be canceled we wouldn't be able to to continue with with supporting those activities things like tree planting on public property watering and tree removals would continue but at a reduced rate so

Catherine ReadI think this is really important because it's Earth Day and this community has made a commitment to these things that we've just named which is why we applied for the Sprout grants while we got the Sprout grant because we are a small city and having someone to engage our community to run these workshops to do the training to do the It is vital. It truly is vital to what we're trying to do in the city, which is a huge job, especially when it comes to invasives, which are eating the city. Dare I say, zombie apocalypse. But anyway, you know, it seems unusual to, like, carve out this one position, and yet this one position really supports something that repeatedly we say is a priority for the city.

Councilmember Hardy-Chandler.

Stacey Hardy-Chandlerhaving worked with a lot of volunteers the hours that good coordination of volunteers contribute to the city far exceed the salary you know if we had to pay for all of those hours that would you know more than cover this out so I question the quality of continuing all of those activities in the absence of it happening.

Catherine ReadCouncilmember Hall?

Stacy HallYeah, I agree. I'm in support of continuing to fund the role. I did just want to ask, are we at all in consideration of reducing the $100,000 that the EDA provided with the Culinary Careers Collaborative and the Women's Entrepreneurship Program and the miscellaneous bucket for unplanned studies that would kind of offset this role? Could we give any consideration to that?

Catherine ReadWell, I would say this about the culinary program. It is a job training program. It is a workforce program. And being able to provide that, I think that's the one that we are doing currently with Vienna and George Mason University that is a free program to give people training and restaurant skills. And so, you know, it is an opportunity that we would be taking off the table for people to get job training in industry where there's a lot of openings in their good entry-level positions. The Women's Empowerment Program, I mean, I think those were small grants to women entrepreneurs. You know, that could probably be cut. What was the third one?

Stacy HallIt was just the two. I asked Mr. Bruno, forget the 10%, but if you could come up with $100,000, where would it come from? And those were the two plus items with the bucket. So we could certainly go through and pick other things in there or do the same thing with the 10% on other levels. I mean, I'm trying to do that, trying to look at some of the supplies and stuff. So it was just a question. I didn't really want to touch the lift and fig programs. right

Catherine Readbecause because just like our commitment you know if you think about our city council goals economic development is number one and if we start removing our investment in economic development this this starts to eat away the ways we're trying to be the city of preference for businesses being here so that's that's a tough one I

Stacy Hallknow it's just

Catherine Reada tough one

Stacy Hallyes say yes to everything I'm trying to say no to something councilmember Hardy Chandler could

Stacey Hardy-Chandlerwe leave that open and just charge staff with potentially exploring possible offsetting places somewhere in alignment with our goals and priorities just to see if there is anything to offset but I think there is consensus that we do want to maintain this role as yes

Brooke Hardenstaffmr. Hart if I may madam mayor as part of community development planning's 10% potential reduction we had identified 139,022 dollars in contract services that could potentially be reduced without an impact to our day-to-day services if if the council desires we could apply that to the difference

Catherine Readthat is incredibly generous of you yes mr. Martinez so

JC Martinezstaffnot saying no to my colleague but we're actually trying Gwen's actually has a real-time debits and credits so as we're continuing we're seeing either the deficit grow or decrease my suggestion would be I think we have one more item potentially I think I'm hearing we're in 118 or at least leave it in as a placeholder and see where we are and then we have one more item on top of that yeah and then if we can figure out where the variance is either talk about edo and or cd and p and or other and see what we can come up with

Stacy Hallokay does that sound like a plan getting us to two or three where is that right now two

JC Martinezstaffand a half right now.

Stacy HallOkay. I swear.

Speaker 38Council Member Peterson. As long as Director Hardin is not allowed to sneak out of here before we're done.

Catherine ReadOh, yes. Council Member McQuillan.

Rachel McQuillenI don't know if she'll be happy with me sharing this information, but I did receive some information from the chamber regarding some of the services they may be able to provide or assist with in terms of the women's empowerment and culinary arts so just throwing that out there she may or may not appreciate that information I just thought I would share that with the rest of my council

Catherine ReadOkay, so we're set. We've approved the 118 for the Sprout full-time position. That leaves the last thing that we're looking at, which is the additional funding for an efficiency audit. Councilmember Hardy-Chandler? So I think in the

Stacey Hardy-Chandlerspirit of a legacy for the city, I think that some sort of efficiency audit needs to happen. But what I heard the city manager say is there are existing staff resources to do that. I would want to make sure we make use of the resources that we already have before paying for external consultants for that. But I do think the audit itself should happen. And it sounds like that could answer and set up a lot of other future decisions.

Catherine ReadCouncil Member McQuillan.

Rachel McQuillenSo I had thought about that initially when I started to research and understand more about efficiency audits and what other municipalities do. And my concern is when it comes to identifying potential bloat or areas in which we are inefficient, I really don't want to put another staff member in that position. I feel that that puts them in a moral potential dilemma. And I think having an independent audit would be better just since it removes that moral dilemma or the potential for it to come into play. That's my thought process on it.

Catherine ReadOther thoughts on that? Leaving it in, Council Member Peterson?

Speaker 38I do think there's merit to an independent audit. I have no idea whether that's the right number for one. And I also think there could be merit with perhaps a blend here. You know, there may be some things that could and possibly even should be done in-house, whereas other things might be done independently. but I don't know where that lands in terms of the number, right? Maybe it cuts it in half, maybe it doesn't, I don't know.

Catherine ReadCouncil Member Amos and then Council Member Hardy-Chamber.

Anthony AmosBased off of that feedback, maybe it'd be another one of those where we kind of keep it as a placeholder and then adjust it based off of what we determine, what can be done in-house versus what can be done independently.

Catherine ReadPlaceholder scenario?

Stacey Hardy-ChandlerI'm amenable to that. The pros of in-house is that you have knowledge of your organization, but to your point, you do lose the independent objectivity. A combination could be very helpful. I would also want to know if there is any available information on the actual savings an efficiency audit from similarly situated cities is this investment you know it's kind of like when you pay somebody to do your taxes you want the refund to at least cover the taxes right you know the preparation amount so if we're going to do this i would want the savings or at least some indication that for similarly situated cities that the savings that is possible or probable is likely to cover that cost anyway.

Catherine ReadWell, let me, Council Member Hall, then Council Member McQuillan.

Stacy HallI am big on outside independent audits for a variety of reasons. I think all of which have been stated and covered, but I did just want to put my vote in for outside agency because I think it's much easier to take a hard look at things and ask the tough questions and not feel like you're going to offend the person that you like, but that you think their role is not as productive as it could be. It's just information. How we choose to act with it is an entirely different conversation, but I think I would heavily support an outside audit and not an internal one. If it's only going to be internal, then I don't think it's even worth doing, to be honest.

Catherine ReadCouncilmember McQuillan.

Stacy HallI don't think it gives us what we want.

Catherine ReadOh, you lost your train. Okay. So we seem to have settled on...

Anthony AmosWhere we can do some stuff internal. Should we be independent? And kind of revisit at some point, like with the community. Oh, yeah. Okay. Okay. Oh, this was all...

Rachel McQuillenaudit that I not just about finding money in ways to but it's to be more efficient right so it could be reallocation of an employee into this space or just working two different departments a little bit differently to become more efficient so I'm I agree I think that I would like to see you know that this is going to benefit us in the future but I think overall since we've never had one and it is something that municipalities it's very common as our CFO had stated previously that they a lot of municipalities have this yearly annually so I just think it's worth especially since we seem to be at this crossroads as council member Hall had stated where everything feels like it's just coming timing wise on us now and so I think it kind of eliminates

our it allows us to govern it gives us recommendations and allows our staff to do tying their resources up and their time up on things you know like this okay

Catherine Readyes councilmember Amos

Anthony Amosyeah and I mean just a quickly added that I think if I think the intention is to probably do more than one of these at least over time and maybe I don't know if it'd be annually recurring whatever we're looking like but it would be some kind of recurring cost so seeing where we can reduce to try to get the best deal out of it as well would be good.

Catherine ReadCouncilmember Peterson?

Speaker 38I would be in favor of this provided that Director Hardin can circle back and help us out a little bit with his offer. And if there's anything that's still there in the EDA offer from Director Bruno, it'd be great to see about that also, particularly in light of some of the alternatives that were raised. So maybe it's time to move to that, but that would be my take on what I'd like to see happen here.

Catherine ReadOkay. So it sounds like everybody wants to leave the 200,000 in as a placeholder for an external or hybrid efficiency audit. All right. So where does that leave us?

JC MartinezstaffSo tentatively, right? Yes. Drum roll. at two and a half cents no meals tax no changes from what is being discussed votes up or down without further clarification from the police chief right now so taking the full million fifty six thousand we're at a negative variance meaning we need to come up with money of about 363. Incorporating potentially $100,000 from EDO, incorporating intentionally $150,000 or so from CDMP, that's a negative variance of about $124,000, which I think collectively we can figure that out. Probably go back to the 10 percent, cherry pick, and hopefully I'm not manager cherry-pick some items from that if that would be amenable to council two percent no no MRA so two percent for it

Brian Fosterstaffyes so recap so we can do all this at two and a half cents no meals tax however the million dollar five percent reduction for release is still included so if all of that if if to your question was have talked to the police chief come back what can we live with and or what's the what you recommend so if the recommendation is that we need all of that million dollars then that's another 1.2 cents now you're to 3.7 well or yeah I'm just saying that that's fine but that's that's that's that's how that's how the math works so or you we you can say 450 400 and you put some of that back and be at three, I mean, we can still ask the question, and if the answer still is the million is fine, then you're at two and a half.

But if she comes back and says anything less than a million, then that two and a half is going to have to increase. That's, you know, or you're going to have to cut something else. So.

Stacey Hardy-ChandlerAnd I don't think we're back at the drawing board. What I've heard is that people are comfortable, some of us, I don't want to speak for everyone, some of us are comfortable with three. We're now from two to three to two and a half to three. So if she comes back with something around that puts us at three, not 3.7, but three, I think we could have a conversation and still consider this work tonight progress.

Catherine ReadCouncil Member Bates?

Billy BatesSo if we were to not want to cut any of the $1,056,000, but we also did not fund the efficiency audit or the Sprout grant, where would that leave us potentially?

JC MartinezstaffSo just to confirm, fully not to do the 5% reduction for police, so add back in the 1,056,000,

Mike Fabiopublic commentand

JC Martinezstaffthen do away with the Sprout and the efficiency study. that would put us at a negative variance of 862,000.

Billy BatesSo basically backed up to around 3.5 cents, I think. Yeah, another penny was right. Okay. So all things considered, I guess, depending on what we kind of come back with, what they come back with. But one more thing, since it looks like we're talking about roughly, you know, a one cent difference that we're down to, what would the increase in the yearly bill, if you happen to have it, for a median valued home come to for a one cent increase in the tax rate? 65. 65?

Brian Fosterstaff65, right? What's the median price, 65? 65? 65? 65, right? 65? 65? 65? 65?

Parham Jabari65 for one penny 65 dollars for one penny okay

Brian Fosterstaffso for the median and for roughly for the median house

Billy Batesyeah that sounds about right so just want to kind of put that out there that you know how much do we really want to kind of haggle over 65 dollars for the year for somebody who owns a median valued home.

Stacy HallWhat is a median value home? About $6.50.

Thomas Rosspublic comment$6.50.

Stacy HallI don't have a median value home anymore. Okay. Yeah. More than that on my end. Yes, I do carry around my tax bill all year with this in case you're wondering.

Brian FosterstaffSo, yeah. It depends on what your property is assessed. But for a median, $6.50, one penny of real estate, $65.

Christine JohnstonstaffYour $770.

Brian FosterstaffRight, yeah.

Christine JohnstonstaffYeah.

Brian FosterstaffYeah. That's, I mean, that's, that would be what the additional cost on an annual basis would be if you did one cent more than what you wanted to do. That's what it would be. Again, some will pay less, some will pay more, depending on what their property is assessed at. Mayor?

Catherine ReadNo, yes, yes, yes.

Brian FosterstaffOkay, so thank you for all the discussion. So where we're at now is two and a half cents based

Parham Jabarion

Brian Fosterstaffall of the, and with the major placeholder being the PD piece which I will have a conversation tomorrow with the chief and can report back but we can certainly prepare what we need to prepare based on the with a two two and a half set no change the meals tax and have that for consideration and then we can show an alternative based on if she if she comes back with an alternative number what that would look like so we can have that ready for May 6th

Catherine Readokay yes councilmember Amos

Anthony Amosand just reiterating so everyone knows I will be on a work retreat that day but I will be I guess calling in or video in. I don't know how that's supposed to go. Video, Cap.

Catherine ReadOkay. Yeah, that's good. You can still participate. It works. It works. This is, I mean, this is good. We'll have different scenarios and options and I'm sure we will hear some updates between now and May 6th too as you find these things out, correct?

Brian FosterstaffCorrect. We can, we'll have something for you this is helpful because now we know the two and a half cents, no meals tax we can, I'll talk with PD we'll have that conversation and then if it's a number other than a million, 56, then we'll also have a discussion on the alternative ways to make up that delta and leave the rate at two and a half

Catherine Readokay but

Brian Fosterstaffbut I but but what we're going to do and what I'm seeing not in the heads I just want to confirm but what we will do is we're based on this this all the discussion feedback we're going to prepare ordinances and resolutions etc for to show a real estate tax rate increase of 2.5 cents and that's the only tax rate increase there'll still be the wastewater and stormwater charges that were proposed and with these changes and that's what will be in all of the documentation which you'll of course get to see ahead of time and i will communicate with you later this week it probably will not be tomorrow but later this week on my conversations with police and depending on what those conversations yield if we have to if we have any alternative

scenarios but I think we can keep you at two and a half cents and no meals tax change and if that is with these general parameters if that's acceptable then that's what we'll be able to prepare for you

Catherine ReadOkay, thumbs up do we have thumbs up on this is a plan? This is a plan? Councilmember Bates.

Billy BatesSorry, one more question. Just watching from home that $65 that's looking at the current value of a home for this coming fiscal year right so 2.5 cents versus 3.5 cents for this upcoming budget that's a $65 difference for the median valued home for this current year taking into account increases in assessments and all that

Brian Fosterstaffcorrect I mean that's what a one cent difference would mean the $65 on a median value of $650,000.

Catherine ReadThat's correct.

Billy BatesOkay, thank you.

Catherine ReadOkay, that puts an exclamation point behind that. Sounds like everybody is a thumbs up. Our staff has a direction to go in, and we will hear something later in the week once you've talked to Captain Heisman.

Brian FosterstaffYeah, I will send out communication later this week confirming all the details. And this is what we'll have ready for you for your meeting on May the 6th.

Catherine ReadThat sounds excellent. If we're good with this, then I am now going to reconvene the regular meeting and ask the manager if he has a report out for us.

Brian FosterstaffI do not, but let me just say thank you. I know this is a lot of work. I know that you don't necessarily like where we've ended up, but and I would agree that it's totally unfair for you to be new and have all this come on you at one time but I appreciate all the discussion all the questions I think you have done very good work to get us to this point so I think we now can get the ball over the goal line now ready for you on May 6th. And as I mentioned earlier, we'll continue to do all the things that I mentioned as far as continuing to evaluate and come up and if there are other alternatives that we can because I think we're all mindful of wanting to make the most efficient use of the resources that we have and not

spend more than we need to.

Catherine ReadAll right. Council Member McCrillon.

Rachel McQuillenJust wanted to say Happy Earth Day and congrats to the Chocolate Lovers grant recipients. And I'm looking forward to the History Day and Arbor Day this weekend. Thank you.

Catherine ReadAll right. Council Member Bates.

Billy BatesThank you. Happy Earth Day and happy belated Easter to all who celebrate. Thanks.

Catherine ReadCouncil Member Peterson.

Speaker 38I want to thank everybody who stays up late. to watch us and in the case of today started early it's been a long day but really thank everybody who's contacted me by email and I I can't count the number of emails I have received but I very much appreciate them I've done my very best to respond to everyone and hope that you will continue to be in touch and let me know how you feel about things and what you need to be well represented in the city. Your voices really do make a difference and it's been a great help to me to understand your perspective on things. The other thing I would just say on a personal note is I wanted to take the opportunity to wish my mother her happy 96th birthday.

Catherine ReadHappy birthday mom. Councilmember Hardy Chandler.

Stacey Hardy-ChandlerSo I want to thank my colleagues for the collegial discussion around the budget and around these very challenging issues. It's been a journey, but it is what we signed up for when we put our hat in the ring, and I do want to actually encourage other people to run for office to experience this dynamic. I do want to highlight that it seems like every few days or at least every week, I at least get some information about one of our departments or an individual receiving an award. We have award-winning staff and it's constant. And I try to think of different ways to say congratulations, but mostly I'm really proud of the work that's done by those who serve this city that can't be underestimated so I really want to acknowledge all of the staff who are

constantly winning awards achieving accreditation achieving acknowledgments not just from us but from national entities and that's something that we should all as residents of Fairfax be very proud of so congratulations to everyone for the wards that are one that have been one and that will be one.

Stacy HallCouncilmember Hall. Thank you. I will echo your sentiments. This is, it's been a night, well it's been an afternoon that turned into a night, but I do think we did good work here. I think we all contributed, we all worked hard, we all helped, and I hope that the community can see that we truly did try and we got it down from a lot to I hope what is a reasonable number for our community to be able to manage. Just a couple other comments. I'm sorry, I don't have the name of the poetry student, but your poem is beautiful. Congratulations, and thank you so much for being willing to come up and read it, and thank you to teacher Faisa alum for bringing forth your wonderful students, as usual. I did just want to point out that we have wonderful footpaths in

conversation it's just a statement in general I'm still continuing to learn where some of them are and I am enjoying them and I would like to see more of them so not everything needs to be a transportation project but I think that there are definitely opportunities that we can build into a little bit more connectivity in some different ways just to one point and it's really just because a community member spoke up tonight I think it's important to note that when we ran, we had absolutely no idea what a proposed budget was going to look like for the city. I don't think any staff members knew what a proposed budget was going to look like. So when we hired our interim city manager, Brian Foster, he came in, he looked at the numbers,

he came up with a budget. So the rest of us up here, your council members, we sat by, we learned what that proposed budget was. We've been working. We've been talking. I don't know what stage in the game people are in watching all this, but we didn't do anything up here to make a budget. We're working with a budget that was presented and trying to do our best to incorporate all the things that we think are important and things that maybe are not as important. So just want to be sure on that process. Finally, I want to thank all my colleagues for not supporting Emil's tax. I was the child of a small business owner. My parents, my dad owned a bagel bakery. My mom did too, but she was a teacher.

And an Italian bread bakery. So I know what that's like. And I know that when you raise the prices of flour and sugar and butter and all the things, it really does make things extremely expensive. So I want to thank our city businesses for coming out, for speaking up, for all of the signatures and petitions that were passed out tonight. I know that's a lot of work. I know it's a stress and a strain on you, your business, your employees. and your patrons that come, quite frankly. So thank you for doing what you do, and I do want to agree with Doug Cox. We all like to go out to eat here in our city, and so if we are able to do so and can support our local businesses, please go out and do the best that you can for them

so that we can all try to ensure that they're still here. And one other just question, point of clarification, Is it possible to allow video messages for residents if they're not able to come and be at our meetings? I was told the county does that and then they play them at the meeting. Is that something we could look into or consider? Rather than sending an email, but that way they know that their voice is being heard and read and faces being seen?

Katie Johnsonpublic commentIs it

Speaker 21possible? I'll look to Brian, but I believe the question is yes. we have from the staff perspective is we would

Speaker 29we

Speaker 21would want to see those ahead of time so there would have to be a deadline so that we could vet them that's the same reason why we don't allow people to bring forward PowerPoint presentations or give us a flash drive because we have no idea what's on that and we wouldn't put it out to the public without vetting at first and

Stacy HallI understand that but if they're here in person and they start going off the rails what do you do

Speaker 29but

Stacy Hallyou'd kind of mute their microphone or similar to what you would do on a video I would imagine I have no problem with them being viewed in advance as long as we understand that we're not filtering and if there's something that's inappropriate, then it would still be shared with the council, just not publicly shared with council, maybe if that's

Speaker 29the problem. You mentioned that you had heard that this was happening in the county.

Stacy HallYes.

Speaker 29We'll take a look. Video testimony.

Stacy HallYes.

Speaker 29Prerecorded? The day before. It cannot pop up

Anthony Amosthe same day. So

Speaker 29we'll look at what

Anthony Amosthe county is doing.

Stacy HallOkay, I just think it would be a great opportunity for our residents. Sure. Okay, thank you. Thank you.

Anthony AmosThere we go. I don't know what's going on now. Okay. It's that time of night. Cool. So just wanted to thank you all. We got through it. Brutal, but we got through it. Wanted to thank staff. I know we've been spamming you, so appreciate all the updates and the random scenarios and the point ones and point twos. I also want to thank Brian Foster, our city manager, for kind of taking the bull by the thrown into a quite a situation especially with a new council and then all the things that we have coming up with CIP and all that stuff so wanted to thank everyone involved there I'll be sending out an email later so just wanted to let you all know in advance I think that after the budget is approved

our one of our first work sessions needs to be something on structure rules and procedures reviewing Roberts rule of orders all those things so I'll be sending that email probably tonight or tomorrow. In addition to some of the fun events coming up, just wanted to shout out it is National Poetry Month. As a poet myself wanted to just throw that out there and also Month of the Military Child so shout out to all my fellow military kids. There we go. You had Japan that was pretty cool. And then also because I know I feel Jennifer beaming into me right now, wanted to make sure that Spotlight on the Arts is recognized April 25th which is going to be next Friday from no this Friday this Friday my bad I forgot what day it was from 7 p.m. to 8 30 p.m. it is on our calendars

so it is a public meeting because there will probably be quite a few of us there so be sure to attend and have a fun time

Catherine Readall right I really don't have a lot to add just to echo the sentiments of everyone here on the dais it's been a lot of work for our staff for our city manager everyone here has done an awful lot of work it has been a lot it's been a heavy learning curve for everyone even Billy and I who've been through two budgets together there's always a lot to understand about this process and I think the public has been right there with us they certainly were tonight it is spotlight on the arts this Friday at 7 at Sherwood Center we have history day coming up on Saturday and these are the that make our community special, and I appreciate our employees who make those events special for the residents and for the visitors from outside our city who cherish these events

as much as we do. And with that, I am now going to go into a closed meeting. So, there you go. We're going into a closed meeting. That means some of us go and some of us stay. All right. Bye. Bye. you