City Council Special Meeting & Work Session

Good evening. I would like to call the special meeting and work session of July 7, 2026 to order. Is there a motion to approve the remote participation by Council Members Hall and McQuillan? Council Member Hardy-Chandler. In accordance with City Council adopted policy and as permitted by Virginia Code Section 2.2-3708.3, I move to approve City Council Members Hall and McQuillan's request properly submitted in writing prior to tonight's meeting for remote participation subject to compliance with the requirements outlined in the City Council adopted policy and applicable law in all or portions of the City Council work session July 7, 2026. Second. The motion has been made and seconded. A roll call vote.

Council Member Amos? Aye. Council Member Hardy-Chandler? Aye. Council Member Peterson? Aye. Council Member Bates? Aye. Motion passed unanimously. Staff recommend welcome Council Members Hall and McQuillan. I will do my best to pay attention to whether you've raised your hand. I'm making that commitment right now. Staff recommends deferral of action for Agenda Item No. 3 until July 14, 2026. Is there a motion to defer Agenda Item No. 3? Aye. I move to defer action for consideration of a resolution requesting that the Fairfax Circuit Court order a special election on the question of authorizing the City of Fairfax to levy a general retail sales tax at a rate not to exceed 1% until July 14, 2026.

Second. The motion has been made and seconded. A roll call vote. Council Member Amos? Aye. Council Member Hardy-Chandler? Aye. Council Member Peterson? Aye. Council Member Bates? Aye. Council Member Hall? I know she's having issues so she might not be able to hear. Council Member McQuillan? Aye. Okay. Motion passed 5-0. I will now recess the special meeting to go into a work session. Ms. Shinneberry, what is the first work session item? Our first item is discussion of a request by Christopher Land LLC on the redevelopment of 4085-4117 Chambridge Road. I'm going to recognize Jason Suffin, our Division Chief of Community Development, for the presentation. Thank you for that. And it's good to be pinch hitting for Mr. Frederick.

He is out ill, unfortunately, tonight. де land llc on january 27th 2025 planning commission held a pre-application briefing and that following february city council held a pre-application briefing at that time the site was 2.52 acres and the applicant was encouraged to consolidate the bb and t building at 4117 chambers road the applicant did submit an application that december which did include the bb and t building bringing the site total to 3.87 acres the planning commission held a post applicable post post submittal application work session with the applicant on june 8th of this year and the board of architecture review held a post submission work session on june 17th city staff has provided

second review comments to the applicant's representative and awaits a full resubmission the applicant requests a rezoning map amendment a zoning map amendment slash rezoning from the ceo commercial office district to the cu commercial urban district while retaining the transition overlay for the property this would include a general development plan with proffers in addition to the rezoning the applicant has requested a special use permit for multi-family in one of the buildings and a number of special exceptions those include to permit less than 75 of the ground floor area of building b as upper story it's an upper story mixed use building so 75 of it is required to be commercial they request less just in that building to permit the density to exceed

24 dwelling units per acre to permit the maximum building height to exceed 48 feet in the old town transition overlay district to eliminate the requirement for landscape strip and street trees along the private access drive to eliminate the requirement to provide vehicular access to abutting non-residential properties to eliminate the requirement for sidewalks on the northern side of the proposed access drive and um and a certificate of appropriateness will be required future land use map the subject site is located between chambers road and university drive across from the fairfax county judicial complex to the west there are offices to the north the recently approved davies redevelopment property to the south which is also uh to be a mixed-use development and all of those

properties on this block are located within the activity center designation in the comprehensive plan to the east across university drive there are existing single-family townhomes the comprehensive plan specifies that the activity center place type applies to locations in the city where pedestrian-oriented mixed-use development is strongly encouraged mixed-use development is pedestrian-oriented development that allows multiple activities to take place by layering compatible land uses amenities active streets and accommodating multimodal transportation transportation and that new development activity centers should provide integrated uses with structured or below grade parking the overall project design within an activity center should improve the streetscape and provide

vehicular and pedestrian connections to the existing road network and the surrounding uses as recommended by both the multimodal transportation chapter of the plan and by the small area plan the small area plan provides more specific recommendations on issues such as land use open space and transportation and those recommendations are more specific than what is found in the comprehensive plan for those areas designated activity center on the future language map it's worth noting however that the small area plans are not a lot by lot prescriptive form base code the guidance provides recommendations on the desired mix of uses recommended height and density building typologies street locations infrastructure improvements and open space

a key defining feature in the block that this property is located in which we call old town south is the greenway which is a pedestrian feature that would connect from sager avenue to the north to judicial drive to the south through the large block the short term for this area the plan recommends renovation of the existing offices with ground level engagement along chamber bridge road for this particular site it envisions that there would be consolidation and development of properties into commercial non-residential uses which are recommended and residential uses aren't specifically recommended for this site the existing stable office market at least as of 2020 when this was was written was expected to undergo updates in the near term

most new office development was thought to be would occur in the judicial complex across the street with their development while it is difficult to predict the future the small area plan provides some benchmarks for the near-term horizon of the next 15 years it anticipated 1250 residential dwelling units in old town proposed by this applicant at this time is uh up to 392 it anticipated that there would be an increase of 20 000 25 000 square feet of new office space within the activity center uh up to 29 640 is proposed however approximately 120 000 square feet exist at the site and the proposed plan would result in a reduction of approximately 90 000 square feet it is worth noting that the vacant bb and t building is approximately 35 000 square feet of that

in terms of retail the plan envisioned an increase of 60 000 square feet with vacant space being filled the applicant proposes just over 7 700 square feet the current zoning district is co commercial office and the property is located within the transition overlay district the site is currently developed with four office buildings dating from the 1960s through 1988 and they total again 120 000 square feet under the current configuration the proposal would require a special use permit for multi-family use in one of the buildings retail general uses are not permitted in the co commercial office district therefore the applicant has requested to resume the property from co commercial office to cu commercial urban

it's also worth noting that the transition overlay district allows by right upper story mixed use development which is proposed for two of the buildings the proposed resounding from co commercial office to cu commercial urban would allow the site to be developed with an upper story residential mixed-use building an upper story residential mixed-use building is permitted again in the old town transition overlay district however the standalone multi-family building which is going to be building c when i go over the buildings uh here in a second requires a special use permit because it's standalone multi-family the cu district is established to provide an urban mixed-use development option for appropriate parts of downtown and

specific other areas this is the proposed general development plan the applicant proposes to develop three buildings with up to 392 apartments approximately 7 700 square feet of retail approximately 29 600 square feet of office a 26 foot wide private east to west access drive from university drive to chambers road and a north to south greenway of varying widths that connect the davies property to the south should it be developed to northern properties and it does terminate at this property's lot line um to the north it is just to the east of the building that houses the kelly's oyster bar so it is on that larger truest parcel the applicant also proposes constructing two levels of parking under the building

as well as a surf as well as surface parking for the non-residential uses on chambers road the applicant proposes to connect building a to building b on level three above the private street and building b to building c on level three above the greenway building a is proposed with 72 units and this just over 7 000 square feet of retail and or restaurant with an additional uh 10 700 square feet of office on uh on the side of the building that fronts chambers road the applicant proposes outdoor seating in various locations around the restaurant there is a courtyard that's proposed just to the uh the inside of the area shaded red here in the plan and you might be able to make out the umbrella area it's worth noting that the plans have discrepancies that staffs pointed out to the applicant that

the not all of the plans are showing the doors that are proposed uh for for entrances along the public streets we've asked for the plans to be coordinated so that they do show those amenity areas the second floor is proposed at 14 600 square feet of office in in building a which is this one here there is a connection as i just mentioned that takes you at the third floor to building b building b is also a mixed-use building uh would consist of 154 units and approximately 4 300 square feet of office and 6300 square feet of amenity space on the ground floor along chambers road this building is what requires the special exception from the 75 ground floor area that's required to be the non-residential this building also would contain a 2400 square foot rooftop terrace

that is proposed to face chambered road the maximum height of this building is 70 feet maximum height of building a is 73 feet building c which has frontage on university drives proposed as a standalone residential multi-family building that fronts university drive and will contain 164 dwelling units the first floor of this building contains a private amenity space with a pool and the rooftop is proposed to have a fitness center as a fifth floor levels four and five have a step back of 25 to 34 feet from university drive while level six has a step back of 135 feet on the north side of the building and 60 feet here the applicant proposes a north the south greenway that goes between buildings b and c connecting from the davies property at the south it

aligns both in location and grade it uh circumnavigates through the site north to the point that i had called out previously there are is a proposal in the garage for 300 637 spaces on two levels the two levels don't connect currently there are two entrances one off of university drive that gets down to a lower level then an entrance uh here off the private street that gets into the upper level the upper level is what's proposed to contain the majority of the commercial parking spaces the greenway is 15 feet in width the greenway itself varies in width expanding out in certain areas and it's constrained in certain areas by the choice of surface parking the multi-modal transportation plan and the transition district standards require 10-foot sidewalks on chambers road and university drive

the applicant proposes to comply with these and provide those walkways the applicant also proposes a sidewalk along the south side only of the proposed east to west street the private street the applicant does not propose a sidewalk on the portions of the northern part of that private street although there would be portions along up to the parking court coming off of chambers road the proposed street is 26 feet in width the city's public facilities manual standard is 30 feet is an older standard that has not been updated the street has been reviewed by the fire marshal for safety and compliance with the fire code there are discussions that are still ongoing about specifics on turn movements and cueing through the street the applicant proposes a bicycle rack in front of

building a near the retail entrance face in the private street and in front of building b near the office entrance facing chambers road the applicant has also proposed bicycle storage at both levels of the parking structure the proposed development requires 618 spaces the applicant proposes to construct these spaces both within the parking garage and additional surface parking for a total of 655 spaces the applicant proposes what's highlighted here is that entrance that i've indicated well okay the arrows aren't cooperating the first one is the entrance off of the private street the second arrow with the circle is the entrance that is fronting on university drive there was a robust conversation with the board of architecture review

about the aesthetic of this staff has asked for clarification from the applicant based on the civil set the engineered drawings and the architectural drawings not matching as to what this final grade and condition would actually be we await the applicant's redesign of that area transportation staff has and made inquiry with the apple as to applicant as to why the two levels of the garage cannot be linked internally to remove this location which would also relocate the access to the refuse area by the trash truck to this private location which will be more in keeping with what was approved by city council for the davies project the greenway area is heavily landscaped the site does meet the minimum 10 percent tree canopy requirement

at 10.79 percent this is just a illustration of the garage so this is the lower lower level coming in from university drive and the upper level which is access from the private street the street you're seeing a section of the street here the elevation changes so steeply through the sites it's around 30 feet of drop between chambridge and university drive that the street is actually above the garage section here this is all under grade the special use permit that i had mentioned is for the standalone building c which is six stories of multifamily residential proposed in the southwest corner of the site again upper story mixed use is allowed by right in the transition district but standalone multi-family is not a use that's permitted by right it does require a special use permit of note

four stories of residential with one story of active amenity space five stories total with portions of the exposed garage entrance would face university drive and the townhouses across the street the special exceptions that were noted earlier in the presentation number seven has been struck out a determination by the zone administrator has been made that the transition yards uh are not required that the davies property had been resolved to a planned mixed district uh what what's on the slide here shows the location of the proposed sidewalks so again getting from the greenway on the northern part of the site there are portions of sidewalks with crosswalks that would take you to chambridge road nothing would take you to university one would have to cross the street there is a

the continuous sidewalk that spans chambers road to university drive you may recall during the davies application there was discussion that the next developer to the north would complete the streetscape and provide the sidewalk connection from university to chambers road on that portion of the property the streetscape is shown but a sidewalk is not shown the street that the street is shown but a sidewalk is shown but a sidewalk is shown but a sidewalk is shown and this just illustrates the variety of height as measured by both the voting code and the zoning ordinance here on the right again shows the four stories of dwelling units with the active fitness fifth floor and portions of the garage which is sort of hidden uh here behind this this prompt that i don't don't dare move

uh that faces university drive on chambridge road this side of the building uh there are five stories of residential on top of an office retail area that fronts the street the following images were presented to the board of architectural review uh and are uh were held a work session on june 17th of this year there was robust discussion by the bar on the chambers road facade and if it corresponds to the specific design and context of old town there was discussion on the pedestrian scale and there was also discussion that the doors that are shown here do not reflect on the the engineered drawings the bar indicated that the design of the university drive facade would be uh would be improved by resolving the vehicular entrance

uh and by showing grades that were uh accurate to the engineer drawings the bar bar did raise questions about the height along university drive and noted that uh noted that the uh sidewalk uh along the southern property line was anticipated to be constructed when this site redeveloped uh here's an image just of that that entrance location and the height and space that it consumes uh of note the dual walls here that are shown here uh are just uh i think artistic license that the renderer took they do not match the civil sets which have a different layout for the retaining walls and the grade does not uh dip down as depicted here uh this this image shows where if davies street was constructed it would be in relationship to the proposed building

uh staff awaits the applicant's third submission to address any outstanding issues um the items listed here are items that we have had conversation on with the applicant uh and are awaiting feedback and resubmission on the planning commission's work session was held on june 8th and the following is a highlight of their comments and considerations there was conversation uh relating to traffic concerns and impacts university drive there was discussion on whether or not the private street is too narrow and if the sidewalks could be wider pedestrian circulation was thought could be improved there was discussion on how pedestrians using the greenway would cross the private street and if a raised crosswalk or other element would be designed into the street

there was consideration on whether or not the private street could be designed to eliminate the possibility of uh frequent cut through traffic and point 50s street and traffic calming was used as an example there was a desire to see more open space and into and to increase the choke point widths of the greenway improvement needed for pedestrian circulation by adding the sidewalk on the southern property line which is what the board of architecture review also pointed out in their meeting they want to ensure that the grade matches the davies property uh to ensure the greenway connection is feasible the height was discussed not necessarily a concern but the step back on university drive was uh something that the planning commission believes that uh could be addressed uh the the building

is four stories it steps back a few feet before the fifth story is there and then it steps back uh farther back to the sixth the be the planning commission believed that more step back uh should be explored they believe that the massing on chambers road may be too much there was discussion on trash and loading and that building c does not have any non-residential uses there was also a suggestion to explore rooftop restaurant or other opportunities in the surface parking area of the next steps would be the applicant's resubmission of the third submission and eventually public hearings with the board of architecture review planning commission and city council the applicant is here for presentation and staff stands by for questions

the the second good evening madam chairman members of the commission my name is clark massey president of tetra corporation part of the land acquisition team other team members that are here with me this evening one is john regan who is president and owner of christopher companies a company that has built over 7 000 housing units over their 50 years in existence and they are also currently building in virginia delaware as well as maryland also with me is to my immediate left is dave mcelhenny who is with urban limited which is the civil engineer and landscape architect also with us is dave van pelt with the grove slate who is our transportation consultant and tom king who is devereau and associates our architect

and last but not least is ken dondero one of the associates also with tetra corporation i'd first of all like to kind of preface some of our opening statements if you will this there to give you a little bit of background we contracted to purchase this property back in august of 2024. uh... we met with uh county uh city staff early on in the uh process uh they suggested that we take a look at a project called national landing over in the uh arlington area to get a flavor of the type of quote greenway and how it would work so we we took our entire crew over there took photographs walked around the area and we thought that it was very meaningful you may recall that we did meet with the city council back in february of this year or 2025 i apologize uh and uh listen in terms of different

comments that uh we've received uh in addition to that since that point in time also though we've received comments from uh city staff planning commission the bar citizens for smarter growth as well as the surrounding community overall there's over 200 comments that have been made we have uh made many changes to the plan the plan has evolved over time and will continue to evolve so we're certainly interested in obtaining your input that we combine with the input that we've received from these other groups and hope to be able to resubmit our plan by september the 14th as relates to the next slide again going back to the location again as jason had pointed out so adequately i i call it the block it's basically it's sager avenue it's judicial chain bridge road and university

drive and of course across the street on chain bridge road is the judicial center so just giving a little bit of a frame of reference in terms of the buildings the four existing buildings that are on the site they range in size from three to seven stories in height they are anywhere from 38 to 60 years in age you will notice uh on the uh on the slide that it is showing oh the next slide i apologize uh the next slide it is showing the those four buildings outlined you will see the uh uh the site the bbnt site which was not in our original application we spent a number of months negotiating on that but we're finally able to go ahead and quote bring it into the fold if you will it's there um you will notice on this that it shows an hp as well

as an lp referring to the high point of the site and the low point of the site uh as jason had indicated in his presentation it's fairly significant it's a 26 foot elevational difference between the high point and the low point uh it is also worth while noting that if you combine our property as well as the davies properties that accounts for approximately 40 percent of that overall area of quote the block that i had described before immediately south of the bbmt property is the community the ends of court commercial uh uh condominium association that is there there are 15 separate owners that are there it's logical to assume that if that property is to develop it would be a joint effort in terms of selling all all 15

owners selling the property at once if that were to occur then the combination of our property davies and ends of court would be an overall 60 percent of quote the block so a substantial portion of the overall site uh the outstanding issues the next slide sorry uh that was referenced before uh we're going to do a little tag team here uh dave and i are going to provide the response to the issues that's there dave will talk about the building height issues i will talk about the greenway and then we will go into into the other discussions um at this point i'll turn it over to dave to try and cover some of those issues of building height thank you clark this slide here is one that rep has three lines representing

three locations of cross sections that will be shown on the next sheet just to give you a frame of reference again just uh recognize that the next sheet is based on the three cross sections that are shown and as clark's alluded to and as jason did there is a elevation challenge that we're dealing with in terms of just the vertical difference between chain bridge road and university drive so the architect and the rest of our team work collaboratively to figure out how to best deal with those elevation changes and um the next few slides i think uh kind of show you a little bit more vertical information so as i was saying before this is the cross section that was at the top of the page and that's building a we had a

cross section through building b uh slash c uh and then likewise uh here as well don't worry my next slide is going to be a little bit more of a blow up so you don't need to worry about reading those numbers so this is a slide that we had shared with the planning commission and i think really um what's important here is is to understand both what the horizontal and the vertical relationships are with our proposed building as it relates to chain bridge road so this is on the chain bridge road side this is the lowest cross section that was shown on the two slides prior and you look at horizontally our building is positioned such that it is um roughly 28 and a half feet from the existing curb on chain bridge road

to the building face in that area we have a walkway for chain bridge road we have a walkway specific for serving our retail and multi-family uh and then you'll see on the landscape plan there's plenty of landscaping along um the roadway as well when you look and see how this building uh looks vertically um it is uh approximately 69 feet from the average grade elevation which is represented by uh the red line and this is a six-story building as it relates to chain bridge road a portion of this building is actually slightly depressed you'll see that there is a retaining wall uh because some of the elevation challenges that we're dealing with it was necessary to propose that one of the i think important uh considerations as one is you know looking at

you know building height uh is we wanted to see kind of how that related to the recently approved davies project and what we found um was when you look at actually elevations above mean sea level how how do we relate to the building that's going to be immediately next door to us when it gets constructed and our building it turns out is just four vertical feet higher than what the davies building will be so just to kind of give you a frame of reference in terms of how do we relate to the um to a new building that will be constructed next to us um we are very close uh to being approximately what their elevation is we're actually about four vertical feet higher um so when you go to the next slide this provides a little bit

more detail in terms of the setbacks that we have from university drive to the building face as clark has alluded to um you know from the beginning we've tried to be reactive as best we can in terms of of the comments that we've heard certainly from um uh the the reviewers um from from from other staff members from the community communities i should say um and so this is something which has evolved over time in terms of uh and we're still changing it uh based on most recent uh feedback that we got from the bar um but just kind of zooming in on this drawing a little bit more and you're going to see a three-dimensional illustrative in a moment um you look at how we relate to the university drive this is the existing

curb here in university drive where this cross section was taken our proposed building is 56 foot from the curb it's quite a bit further back than what the davies building is at this location um but uh there is a substantial amount of green space that's going to be between the curb and the front of the building and again you'll see this in some of the other exhibits when you look at how it relates uh vertically to university drive um as has been indicated the there is a four-story proposed section uh that is abutting uh the walkway uh that runs uh along university drive there's also going to be some uh a public space in this location um and then when you look at how these setbacks work it's actually

25 feet from the face of our uh four-story building to the portion that is now five stories and just one of the changes just to kind of give you a flavor for that this building used to be six stories at this point um credit to the architect uh and and john regan and his team figured out a way to kind of relay out the units internally to the building and we were able to free up this area such that it's no longer part of a six story but rather there now is a 60 foot setback from the face of our proposed building on university over to the six port of the six-story portion of the building so when you collectively look at the six-story building how it relates to the curb on university drive it's uh approximately 116

feet back from the curb where the six-story portion is so again this this drawing shows a little bit uh better detail than that previous drawing in terms of what those elevations are as well as the setback this box right here represents uh the fitness uh facility we're looking at actually perhaps lowering that a little bit that you'll see in the next slide doesn't actually run across the entire width of the four-story buildings it's just a portion this is a slide that we have since added since the planning commission and it had to do with well how do these how do how do we relate to the existing townhomes across the street from us in breckenridge and so uh it might be difficult to see but uh in this top right hand corner you'll see a row of townhouses

here and a row of townhouses here we drew a cross section at the tightest location between the side of the townhouse that faces um university and the tightest point of our building as it relates to uh university and when you look at this cross section it shows you that from building face uh to building face it's approximately 115 feet to the four-story portion of our building you can see a comparison as to the approximate height of the townhomes uh existing townhouse again it's just their side unit uh to the height of our proposed uh residential building here i'll turn it back over to clark at this point all right thank you again um in terms of what this is is meant to do is of course to be able to show you

uh some of the elevational issues that we're dealing with as it relates to university drive as david indicated and i had indicated in our opening comment we're making a number of different changes and adjustments to the plan based upon a lot of the different comments as an example on just this drawing um we are are looking at the issue of the precast stone base that is there davis had mentioned to you we're looking about reducing the height of the fitness center uh that is there changing the roof line to make it so that it is less imposing uh working on this uh publicly accessible space along university drive that has been brought us up to us uh and trying to provide a stronger townhouse elevation

because of the proximity to the townhouses across the street um next slide if we can this is a view from the uh chain bridge road uh and uh to be able to give you a feel for what the project would look like we are we believe that uh the architect has done a very good job of creating a modern and vibrant type of a of an atmosphere for it we are looking at uh the uh restaurant in the uh the corner to try and address some of the various comments that we've heard from the bar um so if we can go to the next slide um so at this juncture i'd like to go ahead and switch some of the the conversation and talk about the greenway etc and if you will i'd like to engage your imagination of almost taking a walk with me starting from the davies property and the southern portion of it

as you will see that the the greenway at that juncture of course it terminates because that is the ends of court community so that's a starting point so it's 43 feet wide the length of the uh the greenway is 166 feet over half the length of a of a football field uh and it goes up and connects with their east west roadway um if we can then shift to the next one again kind of picking up you'll see at the bottom of the screen the davies property where it is crossing to ours at that initial point our greenway width is 40 feet however if you go back approximately 70 feet uh then it opens up and you will see that this is one of our two courtyards uh that is there this is providing and the the the distance from our the right side wall

to the uh end of that courtyard area that's 170 feet so it's a very open type of a field it closes down again as you go further on north but it's still it's a 72 feet in terms of width um and then as you go a little bit further then that opens up in terms of the overall uh open common area where we have the restaurant potential outdoor seating that would be there um and uh and and at that width it's 180 feet 179 call it 180 and then continuing on up to the northern portion where it then closes back down to about 42 feet in terms of width so if you'll notice in the upper right hand corner of that exhibit it's actually identifying the uh open the greenway area as well as the accessible what we're calling the

publicly accessible space that overall combination is about 32 000 square feet compared to the davies greenway area which is 9 000 square feet so we're literally uh about three and a half times the green the size of the greenway and associated space um if we go to the next slide it's again trying to give you a little bit more feel for what that area might look like just to point out in terms of a few of the different character images uh that that are there we uh the number five is really just showing the the walkway with the bridge uh that that we have uh the character image two is just showing a representation of like tabletop areas with grills along that area so again we're we're trying to made it make it a uh an active

location the third character image is is just showing the open lawn area which hopefully would be an inviting area for people to uh stay there have a picnic that is there again interactive and then continuing on is number eight which is showing the fountain which is basically the an intersection um at staff suggestion of the greenway as well as the sidewalk that is going back to uh the overall restaurant um so that again is just really trying to give you a little bit of a of a representation now to really see what it might look like uh i don't think that these were in uh jason's presentation but this if you will notice uh in the little diagram in the lower right this is really being taken between our unit buildings b and c uh looking to the north towards building a if you'll notice in the

uh the the picture off on the far left is our entryway that is coming through the bridge opening that we have you can see the restaurant there with the outdoor type of seating uh and the expansive area uh looking to the remainder areas of building a uh moving to the next photograph this again looking at the lower right exhibit this is being taken at the northern portion of our site building a looking back so as you you can see the fountain and we're really hopeful that this is what it is going to be of an engaging interactive area a reason for people to pause and be able to enjoy the outdoors listening to uh the the fountain and just engaging in conversation with individuals again if you look to the far right you can see the uh uh walkway uh entering in and part of the uh

restaurant area so again we're we're we want it to be an active area that's what we saw with the national landing that's what we've heard that is important we've heard that from staff we've seen it in the the various small area plans so this we feel is is a big deal let's put it that way um if we move on to the uh next slide that is uh i'd like to kind of change the discussion a little bit and and talk about this small area plan and then i'll link it all uh together obviously as you're aware of and i believe was in jason's comment the uh small area plan was adopted on june the 23rd of 2020. uh it uh calls for in this plan like renovating the existing buildings but maintaining them uh providing new construction

along the university uh university drive and but it does mention throughout this document that it is a guide it's not an absolute but rather it is a guide and just as a little bit of background in terms of that of the comprehensive plan if we go to the next one uh just a little brief uh history on things the concept of a comprehensive plan was actually approved and passed by a piece of legislation by the virginia general assembly back in 1975 and it requires all jurisdictions throughout the state to establish a comprehensive plan for their particular jurisdiction by july 1 of 1980 it furthermore requires that the comprehensive plan be reviewed every five years doesn't say it has to be changed just needs to be

looked at similarly in terms of the comprehensive plan itself throughout the state it varies dramatically in some areas the comprehensive plan is very very generalized almost like a blob plan others get very specific down to almost like individual parcels uh that are there um and uh again as i mentioned the uh old town small area plan was adopted 20 uh june 23rd of 2020 however there's two major events that have occurred since 2020 the first is march of 2020 that's when covet hit and it had a dramatic effect initially in terms of so many different business establishments closed uh you had drive-through restaurants no one was going into restaurants they weren't permitted um as time has gone by things have changed but during the the process

of covet we heard about new things like social distancing and not knowing what the impacts would be there were some theories that were saying well this is going to mean that office buildings are going to have to be larger because you're going to have to have a large amount of square footage to keep that social distancing that was there um it was an unknown but as time has evolved we've seen what has really ended up occurring it forced the situation if you will of uh of uh the virtual meetings which we really had not heard that much of before it was evolving somewhat but covet clearly accelerated that program tremendously i mean just look on a daily basis we have teams or we have zoom meetings uh people are going into the office but maybe once or twice a week

so it's changed the entire character of what's going on the second event that occurred was december the 3rd of 2024 that was when the fairfax county board of supervisors approved the expansion of the judicial center across the street and that has had uh and if we can okay good you've got the right image so you're reading my notes uh so this is though showing where those four buildings are located and you can see university excuse me chain bridge road rather on the far right side of it and you can see the orientation of our site uh to that um if you go to the next slide uh that is there this gives you a brief description of the four buildings or four phases that is there the building building phase one

it's a 90 foot tall building uh it has 90 000 square feet of office space plus an additional 60 000 square feet of other space which i'll come back to and discuss that phase two is a hundred feet in height uh uh so the total of office is 400 feet in height containing 125 000 square feet of office and 40 000 square feet of quote other space building three is 130 feet in height containing 190 000 square feet of office and 5 000 square feet of other and building four is a hundred feet in height there's no office in there but it is 150 000 square feet of quote other so the total of office is 405 000 square feet 220 and 55 000 square feet of quote other just as a case in point or as an explanation of the other it's comprised of 60 000 square

feet of record slash evidence room 100 000 square feet of public use uh 15 000 square feet of child care care 10 000 square feet of retail and 70 000 square feet of congregate care facility um urban land institute which is a well recognized uh commercial uh uh association suggests that the appropriate current space per per employee is somewhere between 140 and 180 square feet per employee but just for simplicity let's round it up to 200 based upon the 405 000 square feet of office that translates to 2 000 employees 2 000 employees the question inevitably is where will they live and how will they get to work um i think that it's fair to assume that many workers given the opportunity would like to live close to work so they don't have to commute

um if you take a look at the next slide this is one that is contained within count uh staff's uh report and it's showing what they're calling their uh walk shed uh from the county fairfax county judicial complex and and there that is located in the center of that light pink you will see our site is labeled in blue uh it's within a five minute walk it's literally across the street from that so the in phase one by the way of the judicial complex the site plan is going through the site plan approval process currently it will actually start construction next year and it is anticipated to be completed in 2029 so it's not a theoretical it is a reality when the other three phases come about there's no specific time frame for that but it is already approved

and it in all likelihood and it's fair to assume it will go ahead and move forward uh grove slade our uh transportation consultant uh took that into consideration phase one if you go to the next slide this is an excerpt from our transportation impact analysis and the item that i've highlighted that is there is saying that phase one was anticipated to include i'll round it 90 000 square feet of office use and 60 000 square feet rounded down of governmental related uses and that is that records and evidence storage area that i was referencing for phase one um it also then if you go to the next page this is part of the overall conclusion and maybe as a little bit of background on this before the transportation analysis

was done there was what is called a scoping session that was done in the scoping session where's where grove slade got together with the city's transportation folks staff and agreed upon what intersections were going to be studied and what assumptions were going to be made it was kind of like making up the rules before the game is played and uh so the the entire analysis was done and as you can see the last item that is highlighted is actually one of their conclusions and that is that the proposed development is anticipated to generate approximately 41 net uh fewer net new trips during the a.m peak hour and 21 net new trips during the p.m work a peak hour and 609 additional new net daily trips on a typical weekend compared to the existing uses

so what what what this is basically saying is that if the current use of that site stayed as it was as it was going to be a little bit more traffic you're going to have more traffic than if our community our project were built we actually aid the situation and again i think that it's fair to assume that an individual working with the uh with the county and which by the way their average age or median age i should say of a fairfax county worker is 39 years old the market study that we had done for this is indicating that our market is attracting individuals average age of 32 so we're right in that same general area i think that it's fair to assume that an awful lot of individuals given the choice

that we would like to be able to be able to be able to walk across the street so um in so what we do is we actually reduce the a.m peak hour by 20 percent we reduce the pm peak hour by 10 percent so we actually benefit things so in summary of our project um as i mentioned before combined with the davies properties we're 40 of the overall block we are six stories um proposing a long chain bridge road versus an existing seven story building that is there we are marginally taller than the davies is david accommodated by four feet we have an enhanced greenway which is creating a vibrant and engaging community and the housing that we're proposing is in walking distance to the new judicial complex thereby reducing traffic on the neighboring streets and that concludes

my presentation sure thank you clark i promised to be brief i just wanted to close the loop in terms of some of the outstanding items that were identified by staff thank you and i think that um importantly um to recognize is that as we said before we've gotten a lot of feedback we do try to update the plans as we get that feedback but we're actually going to be making a formal submission on august 1st or before probably be august 1st because we have a fair amount of work to do and um we'll make sure that any inconsistencies uh that have been identified have been corrected um so i want to just make sure we we all understand that staff had identified some comments with regard to density calculations

calculations associated with lot coverage very minor tweaks i've done the math it barely moves the needle that information will be provided to staff for their review and confirmation um turning movements have been questioned as well we'll make sure that staff is on board with our resubmission with regard to turning movements you've heard um jason allude to it a fair amount we've heard from the bar we've heard from some citizen groups with regard to what i call east west pedestrian traffic and there has been a discussion about whether or not a sidewalk on the north side of the davies proposed travel way is or our south side of our building um something that that should be constructed and we as a team have

spent a lot of time uh looking at really what do we think uh in terms of what makes the most sense how do we balance landscaping how do we balance pedestrian movements how do we really be smart about how we want people to move in and out of the various locations both from the davies property as well as from our site and how do they get to both chain bridge road and university drive when you look at the davies property all of their access points are along the north side of their building the black dash represents their proposed sidewalk their sidewalk abuts where their access points are going to be their sidewalk also obviously is a budding where their greenway is our proposed building has no entrances except at this

location here that i'm pointing out that is kind of what we call a back door entrance if you will into this particular building and we are providing a sidewalk from this point back out to university there is also a public space here which we can talk about during questions and answers if you want to learn more about that um we certainly are proposing an east west connection along uh our main corridor with regard to where all of our access points or most of our access points will be on the building as well as on building a certainly we've got east west connectivity provided and connection to the greenway this narrow strip here is uh set up such that when this piece if and when they come in we're providing ingress egress and at that time

um there will be an opportunity uh to provide a sidewalk in this location if they so choose um we again looked at this in terms of what type of uh needs would be there in terms of adequate uh east west pedestrian um sidewalk movements and uh we felt that this would be wouldn't really be used um because there's this sidewalk location in place already there's no really access points into this parking lot there's a huge vertical difference between our travel way and the existing conditions of this site so we felt landscaping was probably more of an appropriate use in this location and so again went back to that balance when we take a look at you know integrating uh landscaping uh versus where do we put the pedestrian access ways so that was kind

of the background as to why the plan was put together the way it was whoops went too far on that um site distance we'll make sure staff is on board and then the last item i just wanted to touch on it was identified in staff's report with regard to the sanitary sewer capacity there does seem to be some questions with public works with regard to the capacity of one of the sewers that we're tying into we'll continue to work with department of public works we've done a comprehensive analysis to look at the capacity not of just this sewer but the sewer downstream of our site and we've looked at full build out of our building as well as the buildings that are adjacent to us that are in this sewer shed

as to when they fully develop per the comp plan densities and and and even really a density closer to what we're proposing and we have found based on that uh model that the sewer system is only at 80 capacity still has 20 percent extra capacity so we'll continue to work with staff on that but i just wanted to make sure that you recognize that we we see the comment we understand it and we'll work with the reviewers to to make sure that we've fully gone through the model and shared with them our our perspective with that we'll open it up to questions and answers and thank you for your patience i know it was a long presentation well thank you for the both presentations very illuminating as you mentioned this is not the first time we've seen the project so this seems to be evolving in a way

that makes sense and you have pointed out you are incorporating feedback from multiple stakeholders i will now call on council member amos for his questions thank you very much and appreciate both of the comprehensive uh presentations i'll start with elements that i do like i do like the archway off of chain bridge i like the elements including the fountain and some of the the selections that you've made for the the greenway in particular uh also regarding the retail and office i do like kind of the two floor consolidation um particularly on the chain on chain bridge i think that looks really nice i do have a number of questions but i'm sure some of these will be asked by my colleagues as well so

i will just kind of go down to the core uh just real quick so based off of what i saw it looked like a right in right out on chain bridge but not on university is that correct that's correct okay i won't go into the the traffic impact analysis just yet i might hold on that one um i would like to start off with going into the greenway so i saw that building c on the corner encroaches into the greenway a bit and the intent of the original smart area plan was kind of for the greenway not to be disrupted to a significant degree but then you see right on the corner of the edge of building c it just really gets really narrow to the point where it just ends up becoming a sidewalk and so you could argue that it's only a few feet not the biggest deal in the world but then you

also have the loading docks right on the other side and so it just gets really constrained so i'm wondering why was that decision made yeah so yeah we we spent a lot of time trying to figure out again from a practicality standpoint making sure that we create a very special greenway corridor give it ample space but at the same time we understand that we need to provide space for vehicles loading vehicles and so forth to be able to get off of that uh travel way that does tie in chain bridge to university and so three spaces were what were required you know per code and our proposal uh proposes those three spaces in that location as clark had pointed out and has shown on this exhibit you can see that

overall the overall public width of uh is probably on average of about 75 to 80 feet um perhaps even more than that um for the public available land for this particular corridor so um it just so happens that that is a neck point for the reasons i just shared but that was really the background for it going back to the loading dock so i know truck access was pointed out as one of the main concerns i know you're having conversations with staff on that but could you go into a little bit more detail i think one of the main things that we've heard from people who've sent emails in but staff as well is the potential for creating a bottleneck there with the loading docks yeah well they're loading spaces they're not docks

um so i just want to make sure that everyone knows that there's not a four foot vertical difference between the back of that space and the uh sidewalk area that's all that grade um so that's an area which um staff has asked us to go back and just take a look at our turning movements to make sure we're not putting any fire hydrants or signs in a way that potentially could get clipped um and so we we've done that work we have not yet provided that to staff we will be doing that on august 1st to demonstrate that turning movement wise everything works and that there's uh plenty of elbow room for trucks to get in and out of that area and so um that's a location uh certainly that we understand why the comments have

been generated uh but again what's what's nice about this location too is that we wanted to try to find a central location okay some place that is is accessible to all the buildings in all the entrances um this this seemed to really favor that location so again that's the background behind why it's there and this is uh more of a comment rather than a question it's just uh and i understand the comparisons with the davies property because it's adjacent to you and you'd be sharing a greenway but davies property also had significantly less acreage and so just a little disappointed that in terms of open space we only got to 10.79 which is just right above the minimum threshold i i expected a little bit more um that's just uh just one of the things i wanted to point out and i understand that you

had the surface parking right there i'm not sure if you've had conversations about converting some of the residential parking space into commercial is that a zoning is that a zoning hindrance maybe that's a staff question all right all good i think you're referring to the tree canopy that is what i meant yes sorry about that okay because when you do the comparison and i don't have the numbers here but we will get them to you when you look at the open space in comparison to davies i think we really are very favorable and that's one of the things that we pride ourselves on in terms of what we've been able to do in terms of making that green space available to our community as well as to the public and so that's something which i was just trying to

quickly see where i could see the open space calculation but i found the canopy yes we are tight on canopy when you're looking at high density projects such as this there's a lot of competing interest for space and so we want to be smart about it we looked at national landing they did an extraordinary job we tried to take some of their really smart ideas and incorporate them into our proposal and frankly i think we've done a really good job and one of the reasons why we're resisting adding those extra sidewalks where honestly i just don't think they're necessary at the end of the day we could put the sidewalks in and come and ask for a modification to the canopy but frankly i think the canopy makes more sense

speaking of sidewalks so while i understand why you say you feel they're not necessary and i would concur with you on the private street on the north side in particular that's fine where the davies property line is on that side of the building you are making an assumption that everything goes perfectly and davies gets developed but there is a scenario where nothing happens for a number of years or there's delays and then we just have no sidewalk there and people just walking in the middle of the street so while i understand where you're coming from on that that's based off an assumption of just because we approve something doesn't mean it gets built but what street are you talking about i'm talking about

the private road that's being developed by davies so that's not going to happen if davies doesn't happen okay all right fair point yeah all right and then wanted to touch on the fitness center i'm glad to hear that you're looking at that when you were describing adjusting it you were adjusting it from a vertical standpoint but jim feather during the bar review specifically focused on the horizontal setback of the fitness center from the curb and the edge of the building is that being adjusted at all or part of the reason i believe is because if if you look at it from an angle you can see the difference but if you're looking at it straight on let's say from the adjacent community you can clear it doesn't

really do much in terms of what the what the height or sight distance looks like there yep hope i didn't get motion sickness to anybody yeah we're we're we're we're exploring all options here um we um don't want to steal the thunder from the architect um but i think and i hope that when you see the updated uh elevations and some of the changes that are actually in the works right now that are not even finalized we don't know for sure yet exactly how they're going to look but they're done in such a way that's addressing what we heard from the br the bar now a lot of that has to do with the verticality of it but i'll let john speak more to that since he's come up and joined us the tape the tape fell off um hi john regan from the christopher companies um if you can see on the screen

right here one of the things that i think we didn't do well in our present presenting this building one is across the street is a side of one townhouse so we're not meeting against an entire row of townhouses one townhouse this glass area if you looked if you're across the street looking at our building that's that most of that building is sitting in their street in their road area of this building the one thing i think we did we didn't do the architect did a great job problem is he put a great overhang on it he put dark metal on it so if you look at the picture it's it literally flashes itself as a structure what we're what i would like it to do is minimize that the roofing area get it so it's flush

with that glass it's an open glass area as if you were having an like a gathering space on that area so it's it you're not looking at a building you're looking at through glass most of it you if you're if it's going to be their gym area you're not going to see a bunch of equipment because you're not you're you're looking again the townhouses are lower than our than our site you're looking up at it so you're looking through the glass in that building you're not looking at some person working out of hopefully we're not going to be doing you know trampoline stuff and things like that but it's going to be looking so we're looking at that area in terms of trying to make it lower profile you know because this will be

the gym area for hopefully 392 you know people that will be living here 392 plus people that will be living here and some of the people who are hopefully working there so we're trying to make it so that you know you have to put a gym someplace i can either put it in the downstairs in the you know parking garage which we're over parked but this is i think a perfect place to be the areas on both sides of it we're putting doors so that you can be on top of that terrace so it's an open space for the people who live there so that's how we just we're trying to design it the other thing i think we did a little bit that we need to adjust on the siding on the back of that wall makes it prominent it's dark which

means that you're looking at a dark black or darkened wall which makes it flash out more i think we need to lighten the color to try to make it so that looking from across the street you're not looking at okay i've got this giant building there we need to lighten it up so you you will some somewhat disappear i won't say it will disappear but make it feel better from that location thank you so uh just last clarifying question on the fitness center and then just one comment uh so for the fitness center my i'm only curious on why wasn't it built within the building why was this choice made or why was it not situated maybe closer to the greenway i'm assuming maybe because of the the height restrictions but

why not for example an internal gym the biggest thing about that is okay we take the building off and we set it back that entire that 25 feet i've got a giant terrace i mean i could either make it so that you have a door coming out of a hallway and i have 25 feet of surface area that people can walk around and stuff so i basically enclosed it put some gym equipment on it and made it so it's usable it was just a natural location where it could easily be used so it's more about maximizing the space that's correct my my only comment and just to what you said about being over parked and i just briefly said it earlier i'm not sure how conversations are going with staff but again if you can if you're

already over parked reutilize some of that parking for the retail space and get us additional green space if that's where i would stand on that but thank you other questions council member peterson thanks i want to just double check some of the parameters on this to be sure i really understand the height let's start with uh i have this diagram that you showed and if you just help me because from the ground up i after you get past the setback i get one two three four five six seven stories including the bottom one that the car is in at 69 feet did i figure that right so the stories are are not inclusive of the garage but what that's at this shows that being above ground on this picture university drive so that means you have seven levels i'm sorry you're

on this one here yes and if you look at that from university drive ground level up we have seven levels that go 69 feet is that right so the 69 feet right you get 12 8 and then you work 11 0 and then it's 9 1 all the way up to 9 0. this space right here are you counting no if you go to slide it to you a little bit farther down behind the car work your way up from the ground from the ground up from 447 7 you work your way up from where my finger is to the top at seven levels 69 feet if i'm not mistaken but somebody should i think one of the things is if you look at the red line that's on your drawing right there that's the average grade around this site as we pointed out in our presentation from the high point on on 123 or chambered road it is a 26 foot differential so the where

we're where we just have an overall math problem is the garage which is literally underground on chambered road is coming out of the ground as we are going backwards just one clarification though i mean the garage is not a story it's a level though from the ground up i'm looking at the height from so i mean from the ground the average grade line which is what the zoning ordinance is based on is the blue line i'm just talking from the ground up at that location it's seven levels and 69 feet right the red line is not the ground the ground is where the car is at university drive am i not so this first unit everything under the red is underground so this first unit is underground yes so let's get to the um let's get to that probably shows it best

so you can see the way topographically things are happening is that when you come off of university you're going down into the garage okay you're going down into the garage and so you do have some exposure for from a retaining wall here you have four stories here but this is not a this is not a fifth story here and so i think i think what i'm hearing is that you're you're thinking that there's seven stories on this side right right at this location here we we can you know this can be further kind of looked at but what the diagram shows is that in terms of from where the car is on the level which is i guess a parking level it's above ground from there to the top of the building is seven levels

six actual living stories but there's an extra level for parking where that car is is actually partially underground okay all right so i'm just reacting that's i think that's where the disconnect is is that okay it's it's a little confusing there's a lot of information on the sheep i understand now where you're coming from in terms of potentially thinking that's seven stories but that garage is is buried in that location portion of it may be exposed but the the the the entire garage is not visible and so it wouldn't be a seven-story condition there okay but uh even where it is at its um um lowest altitude it's six full stories is that correct six stories here right you don't have any units that are underground they're all above ground five stories here and four stories here i know but

if you progress farther to the full height of the building that's six stories yes here's six stories okay wonderful good stories good to know um 392 units and i i am curious um in terms of the comment that you're exploring all options that's a lot of units um if my numbers are right it's 102 per acre which is the same as davies um so proportionately that's a pretty high level of residential here uh any thoughts about having a higher percentage of commercial in this area because this is a very high percentage of residential uh yeah a couple of comments regarding that um first of all there is as i indicated in my presentation with the judicial complex um that's 400 000 square feet of office space you know

that that that is there so and and with the trend being um towards less office space in in general that is out there i mean part of it is is saying normally the office is desired because of it having a positive impact in terms of on the retail there's just more people in in proximity to it and we believe that because of the judicial complex that is there and 2 000 people employees if you will that's there that will hopefully be a large demand for on the the retail portion that is there and that we didn't really see the need for additional office for that uh okay i might want to circle back to that um but it also makes me uh i guess it raises a question on the traffic study did did i hear correctly that the conclusion here was that as we add 392 residential

units were decreasing traffic let let our trip is there we go uh good evening i'm dan van pelt with grove slade so i think one of the things that we looked at and i guess from a comparison standpoint if those office buildings that are currently on the site today are fully activated and um then the traffic that those would generate is very comparable to what this site would generate as residential which is office uh from a density standpoint generates more traffic than residential does so when you look at the numbers there is a slight decrease in terms of number of trips that you would compare to these office buildings fully occupied versus the residential project larger residential project that's now proposed

so you're saying that by reducing the amount of commercial office space in this location you are reducing traffic on a total basis even though you're increasing residential units by 392 at the same time correct when you look at those two programs and you compare those two programs um it's a slight decrease in traffic with the new with the proposed program and the i mean this might be a little bit in the weeds but i would be kind of curious on the assumptions for traffic trip generation etc for residential units part of the reason i ask is that some of the assumptions we've had on developments in the past have not exactly panned out we had uh a building assumption for scout on the circle that has zero children occupying uh the residences there

there are 56 57 now for instance and that's the kind of thing that can have an impact on traffic as well as a lot of other variables so i i would be curious to know a little bit more about that conclusion that just sounds a little uh well it sounds like it ought to be uh re-examined a little bit 392 units of people that are there all the time coming and going uh sounds like just a whole lot in that area well if i might um the daily trip generation will increase so that is one place we will have a creek have an increase because from a standpoint of it's residential you've got a bit of a churn right happening 24 hours a day people coming and going from a site or office it's more it's very concentrated it's in in the morning it's out in the evening

so we do have some increase in daily traffic but where it counts the most those peak peak period trips where the network is the most taxed that's where we're going to show a very slight decrease in in traffic and and then i would just on our assumptions that are um that we include in the study and we use institute of transportation engineers uh database uh we work through the city with the city traffic engineer and go through and vet all those assumptions um and my my experience as a transportation professional is is that we have a tendency usually uh traffic engineers are very conservative and we usually have a tendency to overestimate vehicular trips um and i think that when we go back and we usually look at it we've usually found that we have overestimated vehicular

trips um which you know when i'm trying to think very multimodally also as a transportation professional that concerns me because i don't want to over design for vehicles because i'm not trying to think very multimodally which i think is also something that the city is trying to think about is how do we accommodate all modes so we try to get it right but if if it gives you any little bit of comfort in all this usually we have a tendency to overestimate vehicular trips uh okay so if i understand correctly total traffic goes up but you're saying peak may be down a little bit but the course of the 24 hours yes there'll be a bit more more traffic but that volume is going to happen you know in the different times of

the day because people are living here versus office where it's mainly just commuter in and out times okay uh do you expect this facility to induce demand for travel and vehicle use um i think what we've what we've accounted for is the uses that will be on the site so i mean i think if there's anything that's in in induced maybe it's some of the the restaurant or some of the commercial space that could potentially bring uh uh users that aren't specific you know residents of the site but i don't think we're expecting induced beyond that i mean this is largely a residential project with people that will be residents of the you know on on the site okay you you're not expecting any induced uh demand for residences people visiting things like that services being

provided that's all that's and that's all captured in the trip generation assumption so everything from the residents trips to their visitors to the service vehicles and things of that nature okay um i'll circle back in a bit i've got some bigger picture questions here but it just off the cuff here it looks like this is a lot of height a lot of resident a lot of a lot of residential density and potentially um more traffic and i think those are kind of issues that are worth flagging and worth returning to thanks thank you council member hardy chandler thank you for your presentation um i also appreciate the broader context beyond the boundaries of the site because we do have to look at things holistically in these um uh general areas i also appreciate it

i had put down in my notes before this presentation that i wanted to walk through the outstanding issues so i appreciated um attention to many of those i'm not sure if there was uh attention to lot coverage and building coverage so i wanted to give you an opportunity to cover those two areas can i do that now i went through it really quick because i know we took a long time so thank you for asking the question so i can expand on it okay um the analysis that was originally submitted to staff based on our initial submission had a lot coverage of 85.3 percent the methodology that we used needed to be refined slightly to make sure we were preparing it in accordance with the zoning ordinance requirements staff appropriately pointed that out to us and so

we went back and and and basically their their point to us was you need to take out your proposed right away we are dedicating a little bit of right away you cannot count that in your overall uh calculation for density your calculation for uh coverage both for the lot in the building so when you take a look at lot coverage that's really like imperviousness okay how much imperviousness do you have on your site the site when we calculated it was 85.3 based on the the appropriate methodology it ended up equating to the same thing um mathematically when it comes to um lot coverage building coverage changed slightly we went ahead and redid the analysis we have a little bit less area because we had to take out for

the right away the proposed right away and so we went from 54.3 percent to 55.6 percent okay and then lastly related to density staff had questioned with regards to our density calculation for the same reasons i shared with you um with regard to the imperviousness and the building coverage we went from a density of 101.3 doing units an acre to 103.8 again we removed the dedication most jurisdictions you're allowed to use that you're you're allowed to keep the the proposed right away in the calculation city and i should have known this the city of fairfax is not that way you have to take out the right away so when we resubmit we'll be providing those numbers to staff and they'll can they'll look at it and make sure that

my math is correct but we wanted to uh certainly make sure that we appropriately respond to that that's an easy outstanding issue for the applicant to respond to and we've i've shown you the specifics of what they'll see once we do do our submission on 8.1 and does that also relate back to the right of dedication that changed the data calculations that was mentioned in the staff report yes that's where that is okay thank you for linking that and the proffers yeah i and i'll yield to staff on this but i think when that comment was written at the time i don't believe staff had had an opportunity to clearly go through all the proffers and that was something that um we'll have further discussions with

staff in terms of any specific questions that they have on the proffers but um staff can elaborate more if there were specific items that we need to address now but we will be working closely with staff and with our resubmission anything in development in that area or what idea about what's on the table or maybe we can invite staff to talk about that sure jason you want is there anything associated with proffers that's outstanding it was listed as an outstanding item but i think it's just because at the time that this report was published i don't think you all had finished the review but i could be wrong that is right they are under review at this at this time we had not completed review okay um on the

staff uh presentation on slide seven there was the discussion of the small area plan specific increases in units and square footage and that sort of thing and what this project contributes to those increases do we have information on any other numbers contributing to those increases for projects that are currently under development in old town because we have the aim from the small area plant and we have the contribution of this but that is in the context of other projects too so i'm just wondering where we are in terms of those those increases knowing that those don't have to be necessarily too rigid but we do and mr harden has put together a spreadsheet with properties i'm probably not thinking of

but davies was approved at 276 units city center west at 79 units this project around 392 units phase one of courthouse plaza that you all had a work session on recently was 315. the phase two which is not in the near term the 1250 units are near term 15 year horizon but if you wanted to look at phase two at least on paper they're saying 315. the specifics of that plan would come back at some point and they're saying closer you know after 2035. so that would be outside that 15 year horizon and we did have a pre-application briefing many months ago for an office building on democracy where 275 units were proposed at that point in time okay yeah it would be interesting to see all together how those numbers are adding up toward that aim

could you talk a little bit more about there was a mention in the staff report about interparcel connections there were comments about in relation to the davies property and that sort of thing anything else that might highlight how this sort of builds out that whole area certainly so if you look at what's on the screen here you see the the road let's assume that davies was constructed that road existed and there was a road to actually connect to our zoning ordinance requires non-residential parcels or parcels that don't have single family i should say in this case it's it's residential but it's not single family and it has commercial so citywide anytime you're building a or developing a project with a commercial component

you're required where you front on an arterial collector street to provide an interparcel access way for vehicles to travel from site to site so in essence something that would get into their garage would satisfy that that criteria if the davies project was constructed and the road was there same to the north uh this parcel abuts both the uh historic building with the kelly's oyster house and then that more modernist building across from the the fire station the same requirement uh lies there we we struggle with this quite honestly it's an old code standard where you know back in the day we were trying to seek service drives and other alternative modes of transportation around the city uh where you had small pad site buildings and drive-throughs and things we wanted those

accessed by a shared access versus people getting on the street driving a couple feet going to the next site uh it it does work in certain circumstances but in most cases we're seeing where developers are providing an inter-parcel access easement so for example they may provide one through that landscape strip off of their private street for the the building to the north and that's more common of what we're seeing with developments where there's something more cohesive with a shared private road network so something like democracy lane or willard way where it's a street that circumnavigates through a bunch of properties they're they're satisfying that criteria because there's a street that links certain properties it's

just not a street from point a to point b through a parcel gotcha thank you there was also a comment about and i just want to make sure that i'm understanding it with building c not having non-residential components so and that being based on feedback from the community is that correct so i can't speak to the developer's choice to not include residential there the small area plan does not have uh either chain bridge or university as a preferred retail location so the the plan has specific locations with red lines where the plan is pretty absolute that there should be retail it's supportive of and accepting of retail elsewhere but it's not a prioritization area uh the second part of your question well the part i'm trying to understand if that selection of non

not having non-residential i guess having residential exclusively in building c is integration of community feedback based on what i'm recalling and i didn't memorize it uh some of the comments from the planning commission about being responsive to that on the university side yes and and and i think you know when we saw davies come through also they chose a softer approach something that mimicked more the design of townhouses with residential use there against residential use okay thank you council member mcquillen uh thank you um i had a question regarding the number of stories and what the planning uh rationale what what the rationale was to support exceeding the recommended number of stories

uh thank you for the question again going back that we felt that uh the enhanced greenway was a high priority and to and as had been pointed out really our densities are the same as davies so if if we're taking if we've got the same density uh we obviously have a larger land area uh we obviously have a larger land area in comparison to the davies but nonetheless the 102 or 103 uh dwelling units per acre is is is is still valid if you'll list there so the enhanced greenway the only way that we could do that is really is really is to increase the height if we're trying to go ahead and maintain the same type of density so it was a judgment call uh and again we feel that in light of the factor there's already a seven-story building that is is out there we're proposing six so it's it's not that we are

um outside of the scope of of if you will what's already there so it was it's a judgment call we still feel that uh the the greenway uh is is an offsetting uh rationale if you will for the height it's it's a judgment call we feel though it's incredibly important to the success of the project okay so it was a trade-off for the greenway correct okay thank you um what specific public benefits justified the additional stories aside from the greenway anything else that really is principally the the issue uh in our opinion anyone else want to chime in on that one of the things i think that's really important on this project is is um we all want it to be successful um it needs to have enough density um in order to be successful

economically it needs to be a place that people go to it needs to be vibrant it needs to be a place where the retail space is going to survive it needs to be a place that people feel special in the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the

WE CAN, THAT PERCEPTION OF HEIGHT. BUT WE'VE GOTTEN A LOT OF FAVORABLE FEEDBACK AS WELL WITH REGARD TO HOW THIS BUILDING LOOKS TO HOW IT'S SET UP. WE THINK THAT THIS IS GOING TO BE AN EXAMPLE PROJECT. TO STAFF'S CREDIT, THEY SENT US TO NATIONAL LANDING. THAT WAS A NICE VISIT. WE'RE GLAD WE WENT THERE. WE LEARNED A LOT. AFTER THAT VISIT, I WANT TO GO BACK AGAIN BECAUSE IT JUST LEADS AN IMPRESSION ON YOU. WE WANT TO LEAVE AN IMPRESSION HERE. AND I HOPE, AS YOU ALL HAVE SEEN THIS AND HEARD FEEDBACK, THAT PERHAPS YOU UNDERSTAND A LITTLE BIT MORE WHAT OUR VISION IS AND THE REASONS WHY WE HAVE WHAT WE HAVE. BUT THAT'S HOW I WOULD RESPOND TO THAT. LET ME ADD A COUPLE OF OTHER ASPECTS, TOO. WHAT ULTIMATELY IT REALLY COMES DOWN TO IS THAT THE ECONOMICS ARE DICTATING A LOT OF THIS.

AS A FRAME OF REFERENCE, THE FOUR BUILDINGS THAT WE'RE BUYING ARE CURRENTLY ASSESSED FOR $17 MILLION. THE VALUE OF THE BUILDINGS THEMSELVES ARE $7.5 MILLION. SO WE'RE BUYING A PIECE OF PROPERTY TO TEAR DOWN $7.5 MILLION AND TO BE ABLE TO GO AHEAD AND START A PROJECT. WE'RE ALSO HAVING TO GO AHEAD AND HAVE BURIED PARKING GARAGE TO BE ABLE TO HELP ON MEETING THE HEIGHT REQUIREMENT THAT IS THERE. SO TO BE ABLE TO BUILD THIS, WE NEED TO GO AHEAD AND BUY THE SITE, TEAR THE BUILDINGS DOWN ENTIRELY, DIG DOWN ANOTHER TWO LEVELS TO BE ABLE TO PUT IN THE PARKING, CONSTRUCT ALL OF THE TWO LEVELS OF THE GARAGE, AN ABSOLUTE CONCRETE MASS, IF YOU WILL, THAT IS THERE, AND THEN TO BUILD UNITS ON TOP OF IT. THE NUMBERS JUST DON'T WORK IF WE DON'T GET THE DENSITY.

SO AGAIN, THE TRADE-OFF IN, WE'VE GOT THE DENSITY, WHICH MATCHES TO DAVIES. BY THE WAY, BASED FOR COMPARISON, THE ASSESSED BALUE OF THE EXISTING STRUCTURE ON THE DAVIES PROPERTY IS $262,000. SO AGAIN, IT'S COMING DOWN TO THE MATH. WE FELT THAT THE GREENWAY IS THE VITAL IMPORTANCE, AND THAT IS THE OFFSET. I MEAN, IT REALLY COMES DOWN TO THAT IS THE EXPLANATION. COULD YOU PLEASE GO OVER JUST SOME MORE DETAIL ON HOW YOU PLAN TO MAKE THAT GREENWAY A DESTINATION AND NOT JUST A SIMPLE WALKWAY THROUGH PATH? YEAH. I THINK THAT THE WAY THAT WE'RE TRYING TO CREATE IT, AND AS YOU CAN SEE, THE FOUNTAIN AREA AS AN EXAMPLE, IS AN INTERSECTION. IT'S THE GREENWAY IS THE NORTH-SOUTH, AND THE EAST-WEST, IF YOU WILL, IS THE CONNECTING SIDEWALK WITHIN OUR PROJECT THAT IS THERE.

AND WE FEEL THAT THAT IS GOING TO REALLY BE AN INCREDIBLY VIBRANT AREA WITH THE RESTAURANT, WITH PEOPLE BEING ABLE TO EAT OUTSIDE, TO ENJOY WALKING THE GREENWAY, AND CERTAINLY IT WILL BE EVEN THAT MUCH MORE VIBRANT, HOPEFULLY, THAT ALL OF THESE OTHER AREAS AROUND, QUOTE, THE BLOCK DO IN FACT DEVELOP. SO WE ARE CERTAINLY TRYING TO DO EVERYTHING IN OUR POWER TO MAKE SURE THAT RESTAURANT WILL BE SUCCESSFUL. THAT'S THE REASON WHY WE ARE SO STUCK ON, IF YOU WILL, THE ASPECT OF THE SURFACE PARKING AREAS THAT ARE THERE. BECAUSE WHEN YOU CONSIDER IT 392 UNITS, AND THERE ARE SUCH THINGS AS AMAZON, AND UBER, AND LIFT, AND YOU HAVE FAST FOOD DELIVERIES, YOU HAVE PEOPLE THAT WANT TO GO AHEAD AND GET A PICKET, AND

WANT TO GO AHEAD AND GET A PICKUP FROM THE RESTAURANT, AND THEY HAVE TO BE ABLE TO PARK EASILY. I MEAN, OUT OF DEFAULT, PEOPLE, IF YOU MAKE THINGS TOO DIFFICULT, THERE ARE OTHER OPTIONS. THEY WILL GO TO OTHER MERCHANTS, AND THERE HAS BEEN ENOUGH DIFFERENT RESTAURANTS THAT HAVE OPENED AND CLOSED HERE WITHIN THE CITY FOR VARYING REASONS. WE ARE JUST VERY COMMITTED TO TRY AND MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE DOING EVERYTHING POSSIBLE. WE DON'T HAVE A USER IN HAND FOR THE RESTAURANT, BUT TRYING TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE GOT ALL THE VARIOUS COMPONENT PARTS TO MAKE IT SO THAT A HIGH QUALITY RESTAURANT WOULD SAY, THIS IS WHERE I WANT TO BE. OKAY, THANK YOU. DO YOU HAVE A PROJECTED STUDENT YIELD COUNT FOR THIS DEVELOPMENT?

YES, WE DO. AND WHAT THAT IS, JUST AS A LITTLE BIT OF BACKGROUND ON THAT, FAIRFACS COUNTY ACTUALLY PUTS OUT A STUDENT RATIO. AND THE MOST RECENT ONE, AND I'M GOING FROM MEMORY HERE A LITTLE BIT, WAS PREPARED FOUR YEARS AGO. IT IS THE BENCHMARK THAT IS USED IN ALL THE VARIOUS REZONING CASES IN FAIRFACS COUNTY WHERE THERE IS A RESIDENTIAL COMPONENT. AND OBVIOUSLY THERE IS MANY, MANY RESIDENTIAL REZONINGS THAT HAVE BEEN APPROVED WITHIN FAIRFACS COUNTY IN THE LAST FOUR YEARS. AND WHAT THAT DICTATES BASED ON IT IS THAT WE WOULD GENERATE 24 ELEMENTARY SCHOOL STUDENTS, 8 MIDDLE SCHOOL, AND 11 HIGH SCHOOL. SO A TOTAL OF 43 STUDENTS. THANK YOU. AND THEN HOW DO YOU PROJECT THIS DEVELOPMENT AFFECTING THE POLICE, FIRE, AND EMS RESPONSE TO THIS AREA?

YEAH, IT'S BASICALLY WE DON'T REALLY SEE THAT IT IS A NEGATIVE BECAUSE REALLY YOU'VE GOT POLICE AND FIRE LITERALLY WITHIN A SELLING'S THROW OF THAT. I MEAN DIRECTLY ACROSS THE STREET ON THE OTHER SIDE OF UNIVERSITY DRIVE IS THE NEW FIRE STATION THAT IS GOING TO BE BUILT. SO IF ANYTHING WE THINK THAT THAT'S A PLUS BECAUSE THE RESPONSE TIME HAS TO BE ABSOLUTE MINIMAL. OKAY. SO THE BRINGING IN THAT AMOUNT OF PEOPLE, YOU DON'T SEE THAT HAVING ANY EFFECT ON IT? NO, OR JUST AN INCREASED POPULATION, BUT AGAIN, BECAUSE OF IT BEING IN SUCH CLOSE PROXIMITY AS OPPOSED TO BEING, YOU KNOW, TEN MINUTES DOWN THE ROAD OR WHATEVER. THIS IS LITERALLY TWO MINUTES. OKAY. THANK YOU. MY LAST QUESTION IS JUST, IF COUNCIL, IF WE CONCLUDE THAT SIX STORIES AND THAT NUMBER OF DWELLING UNITS PER ACRES JUST NOT THE RIGHT SCALE FOR THIS SPECIFIC LOCATION, HAVE YOU EVALUATED FINANCIALLY A VIABLE FIVE-STORY ALTERNATIVE OR IS THAT JUST NOT POSSIBLE?

WE DID TAKE A LOOK AT THAT. AND THE ANSWER IS VERY SIMPLE. IF WE TAKE OFF ONE LEVEL SO THAT WE MATCH THE ASPECTS OF THE FIVE-FOUR, FIVE IN TERMS OF ON CHAINBRIDGE, FOUR IN TERMS OF ON UNIVERSITY, THAT BASICALLY DROPS ROUGHLY 92 UNITS. THAT'S 25% OF THE PROJECT. IT DOES NOT WORK. THANK YOU SO MUCH. I APPRECIATE YOU ANSWERING ALL MY QUESTIONS. THANK YOU. COUNCIL MEMBER HALL? YES, THANK YOU. AND MY APOLOGIES FOR MY CAMERA NOT WORKING. I HOPE THAT THIS IS OKAY. I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR THE PRESENTATION. I DO HAVE A NUMBER OF QUESTIONS AND I WILL TRY TO START WITH SOME OF THE GOOD PARTS, I THINK. I REALLY DO LIKE THE FOUNTAIN. I THINK THE ARCHWAY IS REALLY GOOD. I DO APPRECIATE THE DISTANCE FROM UNIVERSITY DRIVE AND THE STEP UP IN HEIGHT SEEMS TO REALLY HELP WITH THE VISUAL FROM UNIVERSITY.

I HONESTLY WOULD PREFER TO SEE MORE OF THAT ON CHAMBRIDGE ROAD ALSO SO IT DOESN'T FEEL SO TALL RIGHT UP ON THE MAIN ROAD. I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU JUST SAID TO COUNCIL MEMBER McQUILLEN ABOUT, YOU KNOW, DROPPING UNITS WOULD MAKE IT NOT AS FINANCIALLY VIABLE. BUT I DO HAVE CONCERNS WITH HOW CLOSE IT IS TO CHAMBRIDGE ROAD AND THEN THE FACT THAT IT FEELS WHEN YOU'RE WALKING OR DRIVING LIKE, YOU KNOW, A VERY MINI NEW YORK CITY THERE. AND I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT THE CITY HAS NOT NECESSARILY SEEN YET ON MANY OF THESE CLOSE LOCAL ROADS THAT WE HAVE. I DO ALSO LIKE THE GREENWAY A LOT. I STILL WISH THAT THIS DEVELOPMENT HONESTLY WAS FOCUSED MORE ON THINGS TO DO AND PLACES TO EAT RATHER THAN JUST RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT.

I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF WHAT THEY'VE DONE IN, LET'S SAY, A FAIRFAX CORNER HEAVILY FOCUSES ON BRINGING PEOPLE IN TO DO THINGS AND SPEND THEIR MONEY AND THEN GO HOME TO WHERE THEY LIVE. I PERSONALLY DON'T. I JUST THINK IT'S WAY TOO MANY UNITS. BUT I AM CURIOUS. YOU MENTIONED A LOT OF THE THINGS ABOUT THE RESTAURANT AND I'M SURE YOU CAN'T DISCLOSE EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE THINKING, BUT WHAT TYPE OF RESTAURANT ARE YOU PLANNING FOR? YOU KNOW, WHO MIGHT BE INTERESTED IN THIS TYPE OF RESTAURANT? LIKE, WHAT ARE WE LOOKING TO GET OUT OF THIS? I WOULD THINK THERE WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE LIKE THE GREAT AMERICAN, ONE OF THOSE TYPE OF RESTAURANTS. WE PROBABLY WANT TO GO MORE. I MEAN, THEY'RE A LOCAL BRAND, BUT I MEAN, THAT TYPE OF ACTIVITY.

OKAY. THANK YOU. THAT ACTUALLY MAKES ME VERY HAPPY. I THINK THAT THOSE TEND TO APPEAL TO A LOT MORE PEOPLE. I THINK WE END UP GETTING A LOT OF THE KOREAN BARBECUE PLACES, WHICH ARE ALL GREAT AND HAVE THEIR PLACE. BUT I THINK A GREAT AMERICAN OR SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES IS SOMETHING YOU CAN GO TO MORE FREQUENTLY AND GET SOMETHING DIFFERENT EVERY TIME. SO THANK YOU FOR THAT. AS FAR AS THE VISUAL OF IT, I FEEL LIKE IT REALLY COULD BE ANYWHERE IN AMERICA. IT COULD BE IN NEW YORK CITY. IT COULD BE ARLINGTON, FALLS CHURCH. I DON'T THINK THAT ANYTHING ABOUT THIS REALLY SCREAMS CITY OF FAIRFAX. I DON'T THINK IT USES A LOT OF THE BRICK THAT WE TYPICALLY ASSOCIATE, ESPECIALLY IN OUR OLD TOWN AREAS.

AND I JUST THINK IT'S PRETTY, DON'T GET ME WRONG, BUT I JUST DON'T THINK THAT IT'S US. ARE THERE ANY OTHER OPPORTUNITIES FOR CHANGE IN FACADE OR THINGS ALONG THOSE LINES? WELL, AGAIN, THE WAY THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT IT IS TRYING TO APPEAL WHAT WE'RE DOING TO WHAT WE SEE AS THE MARKET. AND AGAIN, WE, THE COMPANY THAT WE USE IS CALLED ZONDA, AND THEY DO MARKET STUDIES NATIONALLY, VERY WELL RECOGNIZED. AND THEY BELIEVE THAT THE MARKET DEMOGRAPHICS THAT WE NEED TO BE WORKING TOWARDS IS ANTICIPATED A 32-YEAR-OLD INDIVIDUAL. AND BECAUSE OF THAT YOUNG INDIVIDUAL, WE BELIEVE THAT THE TYPE OF ELEVATIONS THAT WE HAVE, THE TYPE OF PRODUCT, IS ONE THAT WOULD APPEAL TO THAT. SO THAT'S WHY WE'RE SPECIFICALLY TRYING TO GEAR TOWARDS THAT.

AND ULTIMATELY, OF COURSE, IN TERMS OF THE ELEVATIONS, THE EXTERIOR, IT'S ALMOST LIKE ART. I MEAN, THERE'S SO MANY DIFFERENT PREFERENCES. SO ULTIMATELY, I MEAN, WE'RE ESTIMATING THAT THE APPROXIMATE VALUE OF THIS PROJECT IS $150 TO $200 MILLION. A RATHER SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF MONEY. WE ULTIMATELY NEED, NUMBER ONE, OURSELVES TO BE COMFORTABLE THAT WE BELIEVE THAT IT IS FULLY VIABLE, BUT ALSO, THOUGH, IN TERMS OF THE LENDERS THAT WE'RE GOING TO BE DEALING WITH, THEY NEED TO SIGN OFF ON IT, ET CETERA. THIS IS OUR BEST PROFESSIONAL JUDGMENT OF THE TYPE OF PRODUCT THAT WE WOULD WANT TO BUILD AND THAT MEETS THE VARIOUS CRITERIAS OF BEING FINANCIALLY VIABLE AND SUCCESSFUL. AND THE BAR. AND I CAN UNDERSTAND, OH, SORRY.

OH, I'M SORRY. I'M SORRY. YEAH, I WAS SIMPLY JUST GOING TO ADD TO IT. I WAS JUST GOING TO ADD WITH REGARD TO THE RESPONSE THAT CLARK HAD PROVIDED, WHICH WAS VERY COMPREHENSIVE. OBVIOUSLY, WE'RE GETTING A LOT OF COMPETING FEEDBACK WITH REGARD FROM THE COMMUNITIES, BUT OBVIOUSLY, WE NEED TO MAKE SURE WE INCORPORATE FEEDBACK FROM PLANNING COMMISSION AS WELL AS THE BAR. SO, TRYING TO FIND THAT MIDDLE GROUND, IF YOU WILL. YEAH, AND I APPRECIATE THAT. IT WAS A VERY COMPREHENSIVE ANSWER. I THINK, WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, I THINK A LOT OF YOUR INFORMATION IS COMING FROM OUTSIDE PARTIES. IT'S COMING FROM COUNTY INFORMATION, COUNTY STATISTICS, DELAWARE. I'M FROM DELAWARE, SO I UNDERSTAND YOU'RE DOING THINGS UP THERE.

THE CITY OF FAIRFAX IS A VERY UNIQUE, SMALL-TOWN FEEL, AND WE HOLD VERY STRONGLY TO THAT. AND I'M QUITE FRANKLY, I'M JUST NOT SURE THAT YOU ARE, COLLECTIVELY, YOU ARE TAKING THAT INTO ACCOUNT OR ARE GIVING THAT AS MUCH WEIGHT AS IT SHOULD CARRY. SO I'LL MOVE ON TO MY OTHER COMMENTS. BUT PERSONALLY, I UNDERSTAND YOU'RE TRYING TO ATTRACT A 32-YEAR-OLD RESIDENT, AND I THINK IF YOU WERE BUILDING TOWNHOUSES OR HOUSES, I THINK THE PERSON THAT WOULD BE MOVING INTO THEM WOULD PROBABLY CARE A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT WHAT THEIR EXTERNAL BUILDING LOOKS LIKE. BUT I THINK IF YOU MAKE SOME REALLY NICE FEATURES INSIDE AND YOU DO A REALLY GOOD JOB ON THE INSIDE WHERE THEY'RE LIVING, TO ME THAT'S PROBABLY MORE IMPORTANT THAN WHAT THE EXTERIOR LOOKS LIKE.

I WOULD ALSO AGREE MORE SIDEWALKS ARE BETTER. I UNDERSTAND WHY YOU'RE NOT DOING THEM ON THE ONE SIDE AND THAT KIND OF VISIT, YOU KNOW, IF DAVIES DOESN'T HAPPEN, THAT THAT WOULD NOT BE AN ISSUE. THE VIEW FROM THE GYM AREA INTO THE TOWNHOMES, I RECOGNIZE I'M SKIPPING AROUND A LITTLE BIT, BUT WHAT DOES THAT ACTUALLY LOOK LIKE FROM THE APARTMENT SIDE OF THINGS? LIKE WHAT PRIVACY ARE THOSE RESIDENTS LOSING BY HAVING THIS GLASS WALL LOOKING INTO THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD? I UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY'RE LOOKING BACK ON, BUT WHAT ARE YOU SEEING INTO THEIR HOUSES? WELL, BASICALLY, AS WAS POINTED OUT EARLIER, WE'RE ACTUALLY LOOKING AT THE SIDE OF A UNIT. I THINK THAT...OKAY. PULLING UP A SLIDE THAT MIGHT BE ABLE TO GO AHEAD AND HELP.

AGAIN, IT'S ALMOST LIKE THE ENTRY STREET OF GOING INTO THE COMMUNITY. SO WE'RE LOOKING AT THE SIDE OF TWO BUILDINGS. IT WOULD BE DIFFERENT IF IT WAS A ROW OF TOWNHOUES IN THE ADJOYNING COMMUNITY LOOKING ACROSS UNIVERSITY TOWARDS OURS. SO WE BELIEVE THAT THE ACTUAL VISUAL IMPACT IS, QUITE FRANKLY, IS SOMEWHAT MINIMAL. I'M GOING TO ADD TO THAT. I KNOW THIS IS...I WISH I WOULD HAVE HAD THIS BLOWN UP, BUT WHEN YOU TAKE A LOOK AT THIS EXHIBIT, THAT'S SHOWN HERE, WE'VE HIGHLIGHTED IN RED THE LOCATION OF THE PROPOSED FITNESS CENTER. AND AS CLARK'S INDICATED, THERE'S A ROW OF TOWNS HERE AND THERE'S A ROW OF TOWNS HERE. THE SIDE OF THIS TOWNHouse UNIT IS ORIENTED ALONG THIS RED CROSS SECTION. SO THERE'S REALLY MINIMAL OVERLAP WITH THE FITNESS CENTER, WITH THIS UNIT.

AND WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE SIDE OF THIS TOWNHouse UNIT, IT'S NOT EVEN EXHIBITED. IT'S NOT EVEN IN LINE WITH THE FITNESS CENTER. REALLY, THE FITNESS CENTER ALIGNS ITSELF WITH THEIR PROPOSED TRAVEL WAY, NOT SO MUCH THE UNITS. SO I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING IMPORTANT AND WORTH JUST POINTING OUT SO THAT FOLKS UNDERSTAND THAT. I APOLOGIZE AGAIN ON THE SCALE, BUT WANTED TO MAKE SURE FOLKS RECOGNIZE THAT. I APPRECIATE THAT. I THINK THAT WAS CERTAINLY SOME OF THE COMMENTS THAT CAME OUT OF BRECKENRIDGE. SO UNDERSTANDING THAT AND BEING ABLE TO SEE THIS FICTURE HELPS A LITTLE BIT MORE. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT BRECKENRIDGE WAS ALSO CONCERNED ABOUT WAS THE INGRESS AND EGRESS, AND HOW IT MIGHT IMPACT THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD.

HAS THAT BEEN CONSIDERED? AGAIN, I'M NOT EXACTLY SURE OF THE EXACT DIMENSIONS OF HOW FAR THEIR ENTRANCE IS FROM HERE, BUT IT LOOKS LIKE IT COULD POTENTIALLY BE A PROBLEM FOR THEM. YEAH, I MEAN, THIS IS DAN VENPELT WITH GROW SLADE. SO WHAT WE DID WHEN WE LOOKED AT THE TRAFFIC ANALYSIS, WE LOOKED AT THE COUNTS THAT ARE ON UNIVERSITY. SO THAT WAS TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT. AND THEN WE LOOKED AT THE TURNING MOVEMENTS AT THE PROPOSED SITE DRIVEWAYS. WE ACTUALLY ELIMINATE ONE OF THE EXISTING SITE DRIVEWAYS, WHICH IS A HELPFUL THING. SO I THINK WHAT DAVE HAS JUST PULLED UP HERE ON THE SCREEN SHOWS YOU WHAT EXISTING CONDITIONS ARE TODAY. SO THERE IS THE TWO-WAY LEFT TURN LANE, WHICH IS A HELPFUL THING TO HAVE ON UNIVERSITY.

BUT THERE IS WE ARE ELIMINATING ONE OF THE DRIVEWAYS THAT IS CURRENTLY THERE TODAY. AND OPERATIONALLY THAT HELPS SIMPLIFY THE OPERATIONS OF UNIVERSITY DRIVE. AND I THINK IF YOU GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE, THE NEXT SLIDE HERE SHOWS WHAT THE FUTURE CONDITION WOULD BE WITH THE PROPOSED DRIVEWAYS THERE. OKAY. YEAH, I THINK THEY WERE ASKING IF MAYBE A RIGHT TURN ONLY, YOU KNOW, RIGHT IN RIGHT OUT WOULD BE A CONSIDERATION FOR I THINK ONE OF THOSE. I'M ASSUMING THEY'RE MEANING THE ONE THAT IS ON THE SOUTHERN, THE MORE SOUTHERN ENTRANCE. I'M NOT CERTAIN. I'M, AGAIN, I'M JUST TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHERE IT LINES UP FROM THERE. SO I'LL HAVE TO GO OUT IN PERSON AND KIND OF CHECK THAT OUT A LITTLE BIT MORE. BUT JUST SOMETHING TO KEEP ON YOUR RADAR, I THINK, AS A POSSIBLE CONCERN.

OKAY. UNDERSTOOD. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. AND I KNOW THAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THE HEIGHT. WE ALWAYS TALK ABOUT HEIGHT. AND CITY STAFF CAN CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG HERE, BUT THE HEIGHT OF THE BUILDING C DOES EXCEED THE SMALL AREA PLAN, CORRECT? YES, COUNCIL MEMBER. THE SMALL AREA PLAN ENVISIONS FOUR STORIES ALONG UNIVERSITY DRIVE. AS SHOWN WITH THE FITNESS AREA, TECHNICALLY, THAT AREA DOES EXCEED IT. WHERE YOU GET CLOSER TO CHAMBRIDGE ROAD, THE PLAN ENVISIONED FIVE STORIES. I BELIEVE IF THE APPLICANT, THEY'RE PULLING UP A PLAN HERE. THAT'S WHERE THE BUILDING IS NOT EASY TO UNDERSTAND BECAUSE THE RENDERINGS HERE SHOW WHAT LOOK LIKE STOREFRONTS THAT ARE EXTRA TALL, BUT THERE'S A STORY OF APARTMENTS BEHIND THAT TRANSPARENT GLASS ON THE SECOND STORY UP.

SO IT'S AN EXTRA STORY THERE. AS NOTED, THOUGH, BY THE APPLICANT, THE EXISTING BUILDINGS MIX IN SIZE, BUT THERE ARE SIX- AND SEVEN-STORY BUILDINGS TODAY CLOSER TO CHAMBRIDGE. OKAY. THANK YOU FOR CLARIFYING THAT. YOU HAVE INDICATED A COUPLE DIFFERENT TIMES IN THE CONVERSATION THAT IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU ARE ANTICIPATING A DECREASE IN TRAFFIC FOR THE PEAK TIMES, MAYBE INCREASE TRAFFIC FOR NON-PEAK TIMES. I ALSO, I WATCHED THE PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING AND YOU STATED MULTIPLE TIMES THAT YOU OVERESTIMATE FOR VEHICLES. THESE DO SEEM LIKE BOLD STATEMENTS. I'M GOING TO BE TOTALLY HONEST. I'M VERY CURIOUS IF OUR CITY STAFF AGREES WITH THIS ESTIMATE THAT HAS BEEN PROVIDED. I WILL ATTEST THAT THE CITY'S TRAFFIC ENGINEER SCOPED OUT THE METHODOLOGY WITH THE APPLICANT AND THE APPLICANT'S TRAFFIC TEAM.

WE'VE ALSO ASKED THEM TO PRESENT SCENARIOS WHERE THERE AREN'T INTERNAL TRIP CAPTURE OR REDUCTION OR RIDE SHARE OR TRANSIT USE. THEY ARE PRESENTING THE RANGE TO US IN THE TRAFFIC STUDY AND IT IS ACCEPTABLE TO THE CITY'S TRAFFIC ENGINEER. OKAY. SO HAPPY TO HEAR WE'RE GOING TO BE TAKING SOME EXTRA EXTRA LOOKS AT THOSE. YEAH, I REALLY DON'T THINK THAT ANYONE CAN CLAIM IN OUR CITY HERE THAT WE'RE GOING TO SEE BETTER TRAFFIC. I THINK IT REALLY CONTINUES TO WORSEN YEAR OVER YEAR AND ADDING IN ADDITIONAL UNITS OR OTHER THINGS IN GENERAL REALLY JUST CONTRIBUTE TO THAT. THE SEWER SITUATION, AGAIN, I HEARD THIS DURING THE PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING AND I DO REALLY THINK THIS IS POTENTIALLY A LARGER CONCERN THAN MAYBE IS BEING ELUDED TO.

I UNDERSTAND IF I REMEMBER THE SLIDE CORRECTLY THAT I THINK IT WAS 80% IT WAS IT WAS AN 80% OF CAPACITY BASED UPON THE DOWN LINES AND I'M NOT USING THE RIGHT TERMINOLOGY I KNOW. BUT, AND THAT'S ALL FINE AND GOOD FOR YOUR BUILDING AT THIS TIME. BUT, IF THE EXPECTATION IS THAT OTHERS ARE GOING TO COME AND WANT TO BUILD AND DO OTHER THINGS AS WELL, WHAT ENDS UP HAPPENING IS IF WE DON'T REALLY PLAY HARDBALL ON THIS IN SOME WAYS WITH OUR DEVELOPERS, WHAT WE END UP WITH THEN IS THAT OUR CITY RESIDENTS THEN HAVE TO INCREASE THEIR WATER AND SEWER BILLS IN ORDER TO COVER THE COST OF SEWER BUILDOUTS THAT REALLY WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN NEEDED, HAD THERE NOT BEEN ADDITIONAL RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT IN SOME WAYS.

SO, I THINK THAT'S KIND OF A KEY THING HERE. IT MIGHT BE GOOD ENOUGH WITH WHAT YOU'RE PUTTING IN, BUT I DON'T LIVE ANYWHERE NEAR THIS IN THE CITY AND I DON'T WANT MY TAXES TO GO UP TO HAVE TO PAY FOR THEIR SEWER TO BE DEALT WITH IN THE FUTURE. I WOULD LIKE THIS TO. I AMAZING I'M NOT ALONE IN THAT SPOT. I WOULD LIKE TO JUST CLARIFY SO THAT THERE'S NO MISUNDERSTANDINGS. OUR MODEL TOOK INTO CONSIDERATION NOT JUST OUR PROPOSED BUILDING, BUT WE TOOK INTO CONSIDERATION THE ADJACENT BUILDINGS. AND IF THEY WERE TO BUILD OUT AT MAXIMUM DENSITIES, IT WAS BASED ON THAT SCENARIO THAT THE SYSTEM WAS ONLY AT 80% CAPACITY. SO IT WASN'T BASED ON OUR BUILDING AT ULTIMATE CAPACITY PLUS THE EXISTING USES IN PLACE TODAY ADJACENT TO US.

WE ASSUMED THAT THOSE ADJACENT BUILDINGS WOULD BE REDEVELOPED AS WELL. SO WE TOOK A MOST CONSERVATIVE APPROACH AND WE'RE ONLY AT 80% CAPACITY. SO IT'S FINE IF YOU STILL HAVE THAT COMMENT. I UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE EVERYONE UNDERSTANDS THAT WE MODELLED IT IN THE MOST CONSERVATIVE FASHION AND THERE'S STILL CAPACITY LEFT IN THE SEWER. OKAY, THAT'S GREAT. THAT'S GREAT. THANK YOU FOR CLARIFYING. IT DID STILL SOUND LIKE, DESPITE MY MISUNDERSTANDING OF IT, THAT OUR STAFF WAS STILL CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT WAS BEING PROPOSED. SO I'M HAPPY THAT, AGAIN, THEY'RE TAKING ANOTHER LOOK AT THAT WITH THEIR EXPERTISE. MY LAST COMMENT REALLY JUST GOES TO THE NUMBER OF UNITS. I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU ARE PROPOSING MOSTLY ONE AND TWO BEDROOMS. IS THAT CORRECT?

CORRECT. THAT'S CORRECT. OKAY. SO, AGAIN, THIS IS KIND OF BACK TO A CITY VERSUS COUNTY THING. YOU CITED NUMBERS FROM FOUR YEARS AGO FOR COUNTY YIELDS. WE HAVE A FANTASTIC PLANNER, ERIC FORMAN, IN THE CITY, WHO CAN TELL YOU THE STUDENT YIELDS OF EVERY SINGLE DEVELOPMENT, EVERY BUILDING, EVERY APARTMENT COMPLEX, AND ALL OF THOSE THINGS RIGHT HERE IN THE CITY. AND HE DOES THEM ANNUALLY. AND WHAT I WILL ALSO TELL YOU IS THAT SCOUT ON THE CIRCLE IS 400 UNITS. THEY EXPECTED EXTREMELY LOW STUDENT YIELDS. WE NOW, ABOUT FOUR YEARS LATER, FIVE YEARS LATER, WE HAVE 57 STUDENTS THERE. SO, YOU MIGHT BE ANTICIPATING 43 STUDENTS. I HAVE A FEELING, DESPITE HAVING ONE IN TWO-BEDROOM UNITS, THAT WE'RE PROBABLY GOING TO GET A LOT MORE THAN THAT.

AND AT A COST OF $24,000 PER STUDENT, AT YOUR ESTIMATE OF 43 STUDENTS, THAT'S A MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR IN TUITION EDUCATION THAT OUR CITY TAXPAYERS NEED TO PAY. SO, I UNDERSTAND YOU'RE GOING TO BE BRINGING IN, I FORGET THE EXACT NUMBER YOU SAID, YOU KNOW, MULTI-TENS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS OR HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF THIS PROJECT GENERATING REAL ESTATE TAXES. BUT THOSE ARE REALLY TRUE NUMBERS FOR US AS FAR AS TUITION GOES. AND IT ALSO, 43 STUDENTS WOULD NOW BE ADDED INTO OUR ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS. 23 ELEMENTARY SCHOOL STUDENTS ALONE, THAT'S AN ENTIRE CLASSROOM. SO, I UNDERSTAND THEY WOULD BE LIKELY BROKEN OUT OVER DIFFERENT GRADE LEVELS. BUT I THINK THAT IMPACT CERTAINLY IS SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO BE RECOGNIZED AND EXPLORED.

SO, AND IN TANDEM WITH THAT, I'M ALSO CURIOUS, IF YOU WERE TO GET THE 43 OR MORE OR LESS STUDENTS COMING OUT OF THIS UNIT, WHERE WOULD THEY LOAD FOR THE BUS? HAS THAT BEEN CONSIDERED THAT THERE'S ROOM FOR THEM TO SAFELY LOAD AND UNLOAD? IF YOU DON'T MIND, LET ME COMMENT ON THE FIRST PORTION OF YOUR COMMENTS FIRST. WE ARE, TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE, WE HAVE NOT ACTUALLY RECEIVED FROM THE CITY THEIR ANALYSIS OF THE SCHOOLS. WHAT I WAS REFERRING TO AND WHERE I WAS COMING UP WITH MY NUMBERS, MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THE CITY ON GENERATING THEIR ESTIMATES RELIES ON THE STUDENT RATIO THAT FAIRFAX COUNTY USES. SO THAT'S WHERE MY NUMBERS... YEAH, THAT'S INCORRECT. I'M SORRY? THAT IS NOT ACTUALLY CORRECT.

WE USE... WE CAN USE THOSE YIELDS TO COME UP WITH GENERAL NUMBERS, BUT WE KNOW EXACTLY WHAT OUR YIELDS ARE FOR A HIGH-DENSITY HOUSING, FOR TOWNHOUUSES, ALL OF THOSE. SO I DON'T THINK ERIC IS IN THE AUDIENCE RIGHT NOW, BUT I'M SURE HE COULD PROVIDE CITY-SPECIFIC FIGURES. AND THEY MIGHT BE IDENTICAL. I DON'T KNOW. BUT I DO KNOW THAT THE COUNTY POPULATION CONTINUES TO DROP, WHEREAS THE CITY STUDENT ENROLLMENT CONTINUES TO INCREASE. SO WE ARE NOT... WE ARE NOT THE SAME AS THE COUNTY IN SO MANY AREAS WHEN IT COMES TO OUR SCHOOLS. COUNCIL MEMBER, THIS IS MR. SLEFT FINNIGAN. MR. FOREMAN DID RUN THE NUMBERS. THEY'RE A BIT DATED. THEY WOULD NEED TO... WOULD NEED TO TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THE CURRENT DENSITY AND UNIT COUNT AND ALSO THE STUDENT...

THE MOST RECENT STUDENT POPULATION COUNTS THAT WE HAVE. BUT WHEN HE DID RUN IT BASED ON OUR VERY SPECIFIC METHODOLOGY THAT WE USE, WHICH IS DIFFERENT FROM THE COUNTY, HE ESTIMATED STUDENT COUNT OF 46. AGAIN, THAT NEEDS TO BE REFINED. OKAY. THANK YOU. SO AGAIN, NOT AN EXTRAORDINARY DIFFERENCE, BUT STILL A DIFFERENCE AND CERTAINLY ONE THAT... MAY BE ACCURATE OR NOT. OKAY. SO THANK YOU FOR THAT. IF YOU HAVE MORE COMMENTS ON THERE, I'M HAPPY TO HEAR THEM. BUT OTHERWISE I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR THE BUS CONVERSATION AS WELL. AND I DON'T... I DON'T... HONESTLY, I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER. YEAH, I THINK THAT WOULD PROBABLY BE SOMETHING THAT WE'LL LOOK TO THE CITY TO IDENTIFY WHERE THE BUS STOPS WOULD BE. I MEAN, PRESUMABLY, I WOULD THINK IT WOULD BE EITHER ON CHAMBRIDGE OR UNIVERSITY, BUT I'LL

HAVE TO YIELD TO THE CITY AS TO WHERE THEY BELIEVE THE BUS STOP WOULD BE. OKAY. WELL, I GUESS WHAT I'M ASKING IS THE ENTRANCES... THIS PHOTO THAT YOU HAVE HERE, WHEN YOU GO IN THERE, IS THAT TALL ENOUGH FOR A SCHOOL BUS? YES, AS WELL AS A FIRE TRUCK. WHAT DOES THAT JUST LEAD TO... OKAY. OKAY. AND THEN WHEN YOU GO IN THERE, IS THERE KIND OF A CENTRAL STANDING AREA THAT THE KIDS COULD POTENTIALLY USE SO THAT THE BUS GOES IN AND LOPS AROUND? OR IT MIGHT BE THE ANSWER IS THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO STAND AND WAIT ON CHAMBRIDGE ROAD. I'M NOT SURE. I'M JUST WONDERING IF THAT HAS BEEN CONSIDERED IN SOME OF YOUR CONVERSATIONS WITH PLANNING FOR STUDENTS. I DID BRING UP AN IMAGE. I WOULD THINK THAT THE SCHOOL BUS, AND AGAIN, WE'VE NOT HEARD DIRECTLY BACK FROM THE CITY SCHOOL FOLKS,

SO WE'LL RESEARCH THIS MORE AND MAKE SURE WE CAN ANSWER THIS APPROPRIATELY THE NEXT TIME. BUT THERE IS A LARGE TURNAROUND AREA IN WHAT I CALL A COURTYARD LOCATION THAT I'M CIRCLING NOW ON THE SCREEN THAT COULD ACCOMMODATE A BUS TURNAROUND IF THEY CHOSE TO TURN IT AROUND THERE, OR THEY WOULD JUST COME INTO THE OR THEY WOULD JUST COME THROUGH AND TIE BACK INTO UNIVERSITY OR VICE VERSA. OKAY. VERY HELPFUL TO SEE THAT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THOSE ARE ALL MY QUESTIONS. MR. SUPFAN, OVERALL, HAS OUR SCHOOL ENROLLMENT BEEN FLAT? I MEAN, AS FAR AS WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE NUMBER OF STUDENTS BEING ADDED IN HIGH, BUT IT SEEMS TO ME WHEN WE WERE TALKING PREVIOUSLY ABOUT THIS, WE TALK ABOUT THIS A LOT, THAT MR. FORMAN WAS SAYING

BECAUSE ENROLLMENT HAS DROPPED IN SINGLE-FAMILY NEIGHBORHOODS, ALTHOUGH WE HAVE NEW HIGH-DENSITY PROJECTS WITH MORE STUDENTS, THAT IN FACT OUR ENROLLMENT HAS NOT SPIKED. I BELIEVE THAT'S AN ACCURATE STATEMENT. RIGHT. SO I DO WANT TO MAKE SURE WE'RE HAVING THE RIGHT CONVERSATIONS OVERALL ABOUT NOT JUST THE WHERE THE STUDENTS ARE LOCATED BUT ENROLLMENT IN OUR SCHOOLS OVERALL. WE'VE GOT A HIGH SCHOOL, A MIDDLE SCHOOL, TWO ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS, AND I DON'T BELIEVE 100% OF THE STUDENTS THERE ARE CITY STUDENTS. SO JUST KEEP THAT IN MIND. COUNCILMEMBER BATES. YEAH, AND TO FOLLOW ON TO THAT, IT'S ACTUALLY ERIC FORMAN'S NUMBERS THAT ARE CONSIDERED AS PART OF THE FISCAL IMPACT ANALYSIS, NOT, YOU KNOW, THE SCPS RATIOS OR THE APPLICANT'S NUMBERS.

AND THAT FISCAL IMPACT ANALYSIS ALSO DOES CONSIDER ADDITIONAL INFRASTRUCTURE COSTS, ET CETERA. SO, I MEAN, THAT'S, I UNDERSTAND TO BE FORTHCOMING. NEXT. NEXT. COUNCILMEMBER AMOS. I WAS JUST GOING TO SAY I ALSO THINK IT'S A GOOD SIGN THAT AT LEAST THE PRELIMINARY ESTIMATES FOR STUDENTS AND THE APPLICANT IS ALSO VERY CLOSE AS IS, SO THAT WILL PROBABLY BE A MORE ACCURATE COUNT. I KNOW, YOU KNOW, FOR SCOUT ON THE CIRCLE, I BELIEVE THAT THE DEVELOPMENT TEAM, THEY WERE LIKE AROUND 35 TO 38, AND THE STAFF WAS ACTUALLY MORE IN THE 48 TO 50 RANGE, IF I RECALL CORRECTLY. 51. OKAY. SO, I THINK IT HELPS THAT WE'RE, THE GAP IS VERY MORE NARROW ON THAT. THE ONLY OTHER THING I WANTED TO COMMENT ON, BECAUSE I DO SEE OUR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR KIND

OF HIDING OUT, WAS IF YOU WANTED TO COMMENT ON THE OFFICE SPACE AND HOW CONVERSATIONS HAVE GONE THERE. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. YEAH, I DID HAVE A CHANCE TO MEET WITH THE APPLICANT AND TALK ABOUT THE COMMERCIAL USAGE, AND WE DID RUN SOME PRELIMINARY NUMBERS ON WHAT THE IMPACT COULD POTENTIALLY BE. AS IT STANDS RIGHT NOW, THESE ARE COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS, AND SO SWITCHING TO RESIDENTIAL, WE SEE A REDUCTION. WE DO KNOW, HOWEVER, THAT THESE BUILDINGS ARE ENTERING THE END OF THEIR USABLE LIFE AS COMMERCIAL STRUCTURES, MEANING WE CAN'T COUNT ON BEING ABLE TO SEE THE SAME TENANCY GOING FORWARD AT THE SAME RATES, UNLESS THE BUILDINGS ARE RENOVATED OR UPDATED. AND IN TODAY'S MARKET, AS THE APPLICANT HAS INDICATED, THE COST OF THAT IS GOING TO CONTINUE TO BE A

CHALLENGE. SO WITH ROUGHLY 29,000, ALMOST 30,000 SQUARE FEET OF COMMERCIAL USES THAT ARE UPDATED, MODERN USES, WITH A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THAT, IF I'M GETTING THE RATIOS WRONG, THEY'LL CORRECT ME, BUT ABOUT 7,000, UNDER 8,000 INTO RETAIL OR RESTAURANT AND THE REMAINDER FOR OFFICE, THAT GIVES US A HEALTHY AMOUNT OF OFFICE. WE ARE LOOKING RIGHT NOW AT WHAT THAT WOULD MEAN IN TERMS OF THE CURRENT TENANTS, IF WE NEEDED TO MOVE THE CURRENT TENANTS, AGAIN, ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL, WITH A LOT OF LEEWAY FOR THINGS NOT BEING ACCURATE AS LISTED, WE DO HAVE SUFFICIENT COMMERCIAL SPACE IN THE CITY FOR ALL OF THE TENANTS IN THOSE BUILDINGS, EVEN WITH THE REDUCTION. SO WE WOULD HAVE SPACE BOTH IN THE NEW

PROJECT AND IN EXISTING COMMERCIAL SPACE AT EQUAL OR HIGHER VALUE REAL ESTATE TO ACCOMMODATE ALL OF THE TENANTS. JUST TO FOLLOW UP ON THAT, WHAT I HEAR A LOT ABOUT IS FLIGHT TO QUALITY. SO REALLY WE HAVE OUR CLASS A SPACE IS WILLOWWOOD AND MOST OF THE OTHER SPACE IS CLASS B AND CLASS C, WHICH IS A GREAT VALUE. AND WE HAVE A VERY LOW VACANCY RATE BECAUSE WE HAVE VERY QUALITY VALUED PROPERTIES HERE. BUT TO THE POINT ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS IN 2020 AND THE FACT THAT PEOPLE ARE WORKING REMOTELY MEANS THAT ONE OF THE REASONS THAT EVERYONE'S GOT EMPTY OFFICE BUILDINGS, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER IT'S CLASS A, B, OR C, IS BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE WORKING REMOTELY. AND WE'RE ALSO LOOKING AT THE FACT THAT A LOT OF BUSINESSES ARE SIMPLY

DOWNSIZING THE NUMBER OF EMPLOYEES THEY'RE ACTUALLY EMPLOYING. SO WHEN WE TALK ABOUT BUILDING MIXED-USE DEVELOPMENT, WHICH IS REALLY GREAT FOR A SMALL CITY TO HAVE RESIDENTIAL RETAIL AND COMMERCIAL, IT GIVES US FLEXIBILITY WAY INTO THE FUTURE, NUMBER ONE. BUT NUMBER TWO, AROUND THIS JUDICIAL COMPLEX, WE HAVE A LOT OF ATTORNEY'S OFFICES. AND A LOT OF THOSE ATTORNEYS ARE IN OLD OFFICE BUILDINGS. SO WE MIGHT END UP WITH LESS SPACE, BUT IT WILL BE A LOT OF NEW HIGH QUALITY COMMERCIAL SPACE WELL POSITIONED AROUND THE JUDICIAL COMPLEX. SO I JUST WANT TO HELP PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THAT IT CAN'T ALL BE ABOUT THE MATH AND THE NUMBERS. HAVING BUILDINGS, OLD BUILDINGS OF OLD SPACE AS OPPOSED TO A SMALLER AMOUNT OF

SQUARE FOOTAGE THAT IS IN DEMAND BECAUSE IT IS QUALITY IS A TRADE-OFF THAT I THINK WE SHOULD CONSIDER MAKING. I MEAN, WHAT ARE YOUR SIGNS? I MEAN, WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON THAT? NO, ABSOLUTELY. THE WHOLE REGION IS SEEING A FLIGHT TO QUALITY. SO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE'RE WORKING ON IS LOOKING AT THE LIFESPAN OF THE REMAINING COMMERCIAL PROPERTIES. WHAT PROPERTIES CAN BE REDEVELOPED, PURE COMMERCIAL. BUT THE MARKET TAKES A LOT OF THAT. AND YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. WE HAVE TALKED TO OTHER BUSINESSES. WE'VE TALKED TO LAW FIRMS IN THIS CORRIDOR. WE HAVE TALKED TO OTHER BUSINESSES. AND PROXIMITY TO THE COURTHOUSE IS ABSOLUTELY THE ATTRACTOR IN THAT SPECIFIC LOCATION. AND THEY GENERALLY NEED SMALLER SPACES. NOW, I WILL SAY THAT ONE OF THE LARGEST TENANTS IN ONE OF THESE BUILDINGS IS IN FACT A LAW FIRM.

BUT AGAIN, WITH AN UPDATED SPACE, I THINK WE STAND A GOOD CHANCE OF A RETENTION PROJECT THERE. BUT ALSO OF SEEING ADDITIONAL NET NEW COMMERCIAL THAT IS LOOKING FOR THAT SPACE. SO WE ABSOLUTELY AGREE THERE'S A FLIGHT TO QUALITY AND THAT WE DO HAVE TO TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION THE USEABLE COMMERCIAL USE ON THE BUILDINGS AS THEY ARE AND WHAT THE PATH IS AND THE GAP IS TO GET THEM TO WHAT WILL BE COMPETITIVE FOR THE NEXT 10 TO 20 YEARS, WHERE SOME OF THESE BUILDINGS, THEIR LIFESPAN IS NOT GOING TO GET ANOTHER 10 TO 20 YEARS WITHOUT SOMETHING HAPPENING. THANK YOU FOR THAT. MR. SUPFAN, A QUESTION ABOUT PARKING. FIRST OF ALL, FOR ANYBODY IN THE ROOM, I'M JUST GOING TO THROW THIS OUT. HAS ANYONE HEARD OF THE BOOK PAVED PARADISE?

OKAY, SO I HEARD ABOUT THIS BOOK TODAY. I HEARD ABOUT THIS BOOK TODAY AND I'M GOING TO READ THIS BOOK BECAUSE IT APPARENTLY EXPLAINS AMERICA. SO PARKING, WE TALK ABOUT THAT A LOT. THERE HAS BEEN LEGISLATION PROPOSED REGARDING PARKING. THINKING ABOUT SCOUT ON THE CIRCLE AND THE LOFTS AT UNIVERSITY, WHICH OBVIOUSLY THEY MET CERTAIN PARKING REQUIREMENTS. DO WE EVER CIRCLE BACK AROUND TO FIND OUT, BECAUSE I DRIVE PAST THE LOFTS AND DO NOT SEE A FULL PARKING LOT. AND MY UNDERSTANDING IS IT'S NOT A FULL RESIDENTIAL LOT AT SCOUT ON THE CIRCLE. IS THAT YOUR UNDERSTANDING? THANKS. WE HAVE LOOKED AT A NUMBER OF PROPERTIES. THE CAPSTONE COLLEGIANT PROPERTY BEING ONE OF THEM WHEN WE JUST RECENTLY WENT THROUGH THE PARKING STUDY FOR OLD TOWN TO LOOK AT WHERE WE ARE NUMBERS-WISE.

IT'S A LITTLE DIFFERENT BETWEEN A SCOUT PROJECT AND OLD TOWN PROJECT. THIS PROJECT BENEFITS FROM THE TRANSITION OVERLAY DISTRICT REDUCTION. WHEREAS SCOUT HAD TO REQUEST THE EXCEPTION TO GET DOWN TO 1.6. WE DO SEE I THINK IN SOME HEAVY RETAIL OR HEAVY RESTAURANTED RETAIL SPACES A HEAVY DEMAND FOR PARKING AT CERTAIN HOURS OF THE DAY. YOU MAY KNOW IF YOU GO TO POPULAR RESTAURANTS, YOU'RE CIRCLING AROUND AND HAVING A HARD TIME FINDING. THAT'S USER SPECIFIC VERSUS USE SPECIFIC. IN THIS CASE, THIS APPLICANT IS ONE OF THE FEW THAT IS PROPOSING TO EXCEED THE ORDINANCE REQUIREMENTS. UNDERGROUND PARKING IS VERY EXPENSIVE. I'M SURE YOU COULD TELL ME WHAT THE COST PER PARKING SPACE IS. IT'S MIND-BLOWING.

BUT YOU'VE GOT TWO LEVELS OF UNDERGROUND PARKING WHICH ENDS UP, YES, IT IS FOR, YOU'VE GOT COMMERCIAL AND YOU'VE GOT RETAIL IN THOSE BUILDINGS. SO SOME OF THAT PARKING IS GOING TO BE FOR THOSE, YOU KNOW, EMPLOYEES I WOULD IMAGINE AND RETAIL. IS THAT CORRECT? SO IT'S NOT ALL THE RESIDENTS PARKING. SO WHEN PEOPLE COME IN AND WE'VE PROVIDED THIS UNDERGROUND PARKING WHICH IS GOING TO BE DIFFERENT FROM THE PARKING THAT IS THERE NOW, IT ENDS UP BENEFITTING THE BUSINESSES AND EVERYTHING AROUND IT AS WELL. AND SOMETHING ELSE I WOULD POINT OUT BECAUSE THIS WAS BROUGHT UP ABOUT FAIRFAX CORNER. THE Mosaic AND FAIRFAX CORNER ARE SUCCESSFUL BECAUSE OF HIGH DENSITY HOUSING. THOSE SHOPS AND THE MOVIE THEATER AND THE RESTAURANTS THAT ALL OF US HERE IN THE CITY DRIVE OVER TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF WORK

BECAUSE THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT LIVE THERE ALL THE TIME. AND SO WE CAN'T TAKE THIS OUT OF THE EQUATION TO THINK THAT WE CAN HAVE MORE RESTAURANTS AND MORE RETAIL WITHOUT BUILDING HIGH DENSITY HOUSING OF PEOPLE WHO DON'T DRIVE THERE AND PARK. IT'S PEOPLE WHO WALK THERE. AND SO ASIDE FROM THE FEASIBILITY OF MAKING THIS PROJECT PENCIL, AND THE DENSITY BEING WHAT IT IS, AND THE SIX STORIES BEING WHAT THEY ARE, I THINK TO UNDERSTAND, AND NOW IT CAN GO BACK TO OUR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR, ABOUT HOW YOU BUILD THE VIBRANCE, PARTICULARLY, OF OUR OLD TOWN, IS THAT YOU PUT PEOPLE THERE WHO LIVE THERE AND DON'T DRIVE TO PATRONIZE OUR BUSINESSES. THERE'S ABSOLUTELY A CONNECTION BETWEEN RETAIL AND RESIDENTIAL AND THE OFFICE COMPONENT.

THEY GO HAND IN HAND. WHAT I WOULD CAUTION IS, AND I'VE SAID THIS BEFORE, IS WE ARE LOOKING AT ALL OF THESE AS BOOKENDS, RIGHT? SO EACH INDIVIDUAL PROJECT HAS ITS SITE CHALLENGES, ITS BALANCE BETWEEN RESIDENTIAL, COMMERCIAL, RETAIL. OBVIOUSLY, AS AN ECONOMIC DEVELOPER, I WANT TO SEE AS MUCH COMMERCIAL SPACE, GOOD USABLE COMMERCIAL SPACE AS WE CAN GET. BUT ON THE OTHER END, WE DO HAVE TO BE VERY CONSCIOUS ABOUT THE TOTAL LOSS OF COMMERCIAL IN THE CITY, AND THAT GOES TO MY EARLIER COMMENTS. SO WE DO NEED DENSITY TO SUPPORT QUALITY RETAIL, AND OFFICE HELPS SUPPORT THAT. THAT'S YOUR LUNCHTIME TRAFFIC. THAT'S WHAT GOES INTO YOUR RESTAURANT AND RETAIL DURING THE DAY, NOT JUST YOUR PEAK HOURS. BUT WE DO HAVE TO LOOK AT THIS OTHER END.

SO I DON'T WANT TO NOT SAY THAT ON THE RECORD, IS THAT THERE IS, THERE ARE SEVERAL PROJECTS. SO WHEN YOU TAKE THEM ALL INTO CONSIDERATION, AND THE NET LOSS, OR THE LACK OF GAIN OF COMMERCIAL, WHILE WE'RE DEALING WITH THE AGING OFFICE BUILDING, THAT DOES GIVE ME PAUSE. AND SOMETHING WE DO HAVE TO CONSIDER IS THE BIG SCOPE AND THEN THE INDIVIDUAL PROJECT. I THINK 29,000 SQUARE FEET IN THIS PROJECT, AFTER RUNNING THE NUMBERS AND SEEING THE AVERAGE SIZE OF THE TENANTS IN THE EXISTING BUILDING, THE MAKEUP OF THOSE TENANTS, I FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH OUR ABILITY TO BOTH PLACE THOSE TENANTS EITHER IN THE NEW BUILDING OR ELSEWHERE IN THE CITY. BUT THAT'S A TIMING ISSUE, TOO. THAT'S A TIMING ISSUE TO WHEN OTHER PROJECTS DEVELOP AND WHEN OTHER BUILDINGS GET REDEVELOPED.

SO, YES, BUT WE'RE STILL WATCHING VERY, VERY CAUTIOUSLY THE TOTAL AMOUNT OF COMMERCIAL THAT THE CITY IS EXPECTED TO GAIN OR LOSE WITHIN THE TIMEFRAME OF ALL THESE DEVELOPMENT PROJECTS. THAT IS EXCELLENT BECAUSE I DO BELIEVE THAT MIXED-USE DEVELOPMENT FOR A CITY THIS SIZE BUILDS IN FLEXIBILITY 50 YEARS DOWN THE ROAD AND THE LIFESPAN OF A BUILDING IS ABOUT 50 YEARS OR LESS. SO, COUNCILMEMBER PETERSON? I'M NOT SURE WE'VE HAD A CHANCE TO HEAR YOUR ASSESSMENT OF THE IMPACT AND IT'S BOTH POSITIVE AND NECESSIVE. I'M SURE I'M SURE IT HAS A SUBSTANTIAL IMPACT AND I WOULD BE CURIOUS TO KNOW MORE AND IF IT'S NOT SOMETHING WE CAN DO THIS EVENING IT'S OKAY. WE CAN TAKE OUR TIME AND DO THAT WHEN NECESSARY BUT I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT IN TERMS OF HOW WE UNDERSTAND THIS PROJECT AND OTHER THINGS IN THE AREA.

BECAUSE IT HELPS US UNDERSTAND THINGS LIKE FOR INSTANCE WHAT KIND OF COMMERCIAL SUPPLY WILL GO THERE AND WHERE DOES THAT LEAVE US IN TERMS OF THE KIND OF COMMERCIAL SUPPLY RESPONSE THAT MAKES THE MOST SENSE HERE. I DON'T KNOW FOR INSTANCE WHETHER THE COMMERCIAL OFFICE SPACE IN THE JUDICIAL AREA IS GOING TO SATISFY THE DEMAND FOR LEGAL SERVICES AND AS A CONSEQUENCE THE COMMERCIAL AREAS THAT WE HAVE WOULD MAYBE BE MORE BETTER ORIENTED TOWARDS OTHER INDUSTRIES THAT YOU'VE ALLUDED TO BEFORE IN TERMS OF US BEING ABLE TO FIND VERY STRONG NICHE MARKETS IN. SO THAT WOULD KIND OF DECOUPLE THIS WHOLE CONCEPT OF RELYING UPON THE JUDICIAL COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT AS A WAY OF DETERMINING WHAT WE DO ON THIS SIDE HERE.

THEY VERY WELL COULD BE SEPARABLE ISSUES. I THINK THAT'S AN IMPORTANT THING AND I'D CERTAINLY LIKE TO HEAR MORE ABOUT THAT. ALSO I'M MINDFUL OF THE FACT THAT THIS SITE IS A STONE'S THROW FROM GEORGE MASON UNIVERSITY. AND IN TERMS OF PEOPLE WHO LIVE NEARBY, NEAR ENOUGH TO USE IT, I WOULD BE CURIOUS TO KNOW WHETHER THIS AREA, IF IT WAS THOUGHT A LITTLE BIT MORE INTENSIVELY AS AN ACTIVITY AREA THAT COULD SERVE AND SUPPORT THE STUDENT BODY AND FOR THAT MATTER FACULTY BODY AT GEORGE MASON UNIVERSITY WHO ARE ALREADY RESIDING VERY NEARBY, WHETHER THAT IS ACTUALLY SOMETHING ALSO THAT WOULD REVISE THE STRATEGY AND THE STRUCTURE OF THIS DEVELOPMENT. BECAUSE GOING TO RETAIL, IT MAY BE YOU HAVE A VERY BIG RETAIL DEMAND SITTING RIGHT THERE ALREADY.

AND YOU DON'T NEED TO BUILD MORE CAPTIVE RETAIL DEMAND ON SITE, WHICH OF COURSE FREES THIS UP TO THE NICHE COMMERCIAL STUFF THAT YOU HAVE EARLIER SAID IS THE FUTURE OF THE CITY WHERE WE NEED TO GO. IT WOULD JUST SEEM TO ME THERE ARE SOME REAL OPEN QUESTIONS HERE THAT WE NEED A LITTLE BIT MORE INFORMATION ABOUT. IT WOULD BE HELPFUL ON THESE POINTS IN PARTICULAR IF WE COULD HEAR BACK FROM YOU ON THAT AND THINK A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THE IMPACT THAT THAT HAS ON WHAT WE DO IN THIS AREA. THE INTENTION HERE I THINK HAS GENERALLY BEEN THIS IS AN ACTIVITY CORRIDOR. WHAT THAT MEANS REQUIRES A LOT OF TRANSLATION, BUT THE FACT THAT WE'RE PROXIMATE TO THIS VERY MAJOR NEW COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT AT THE JUDICIAL AREA.

WE'RE NEXT TO THE BIGGEST UNIVERSITY POPULATION AROUND, YOU KNOW, RIGHT NEXT DOOR. I'M NOT SURE I'M HEARING THAT THOSE WERE ACTUALLY INCORPORATED INTO THE DESIGN DECISIONS HERE. SO I'D LOVE TO KNOW MORE ABOUT THAT IF WE MIGHT. ABSOLUTELY. I WILL HAVE TO GET BACK TO YOU ON THE COUNTY PROJECT AND THE MIX OF USE. AND, YOU KNOW, LISTENING TO THE APPLICANT AND TALK ABOUT THE IMPACT OF THAT PROJECT ON THEIRS, THAT IS, IT IS OBVIOUSLY GOING TO HAVE AN IMPACT ON ALL OF OUR PROJECTS AND EVERYTHING IN THAT CORRIDOR. BUT WHEN I LOOK AT IT, IT'S SEPARATING IT OUT ALSO BECAUSE ANYTHING THAT GOES ON THAT COUNTY SIDE, WE DON'T GET THE ECONOMIC IMPACT OF IT. SO WE WON'T KNOW THAT UNTIL AFTER THE FACT, UNFORTUNATELY, WHAT THAT MAKEUP IS BECAUSE THAT'S NOT SOMETHING WE WILL BE ABLE TO CONTROL.

WE CAN SEE WHAT THEY PLAN. I DO THINK THAT WHATEVER COMMERCIAL GOES ON THAT WILL BE SPECIFICALLY TO SERVE THE JUDICIAL COMPLEX. THAT WOULD MAKE THE MOST SENSE. SO WE MIGHT GET THAT OPPORTUNITY, BUT THAT ALSO WILL COME DOWN TO THE QUALITY OF THE SPACE OF THIS PROJECT AND ALL OF THE OTHERS AND THE LAYOUT, WHICH IS ACTUALLY AS IMPORTANT TO THE TYPES OF BUSINESS WE ATTRACT AS OTHERS. WE'VE SPOKEN ABOUT THIS, THAT OUR REGION AND OUR CITY SEES A LOT OF INTEREST FROM GOVERNMENT CONTRACTORS, SOME OF WHOM NEEDS TO BE ABLE TO CONTROL. SOME OF WHOM NEED SPECIFIC SPACES, SOME OF WHOM WHO DON'T. THAT COMES AFTER A PROJECT HAS BEEN APPROVED IN THE LAYOUT, RATHER THAN WHETHER OR NOT THE COMMERCIAL SPACE IS THERE.

SO THAT COMES DOWN TO THE ACTUAL OWNER BEING WILLING TO WORK WITH US ON HOW THOSE COMMERCIAL UNITS ARE LAID OUT, ON WHAT THE LEASE LOOKS LIKE, WHAT THE RATE IS. THAT WILL HELP US DETERMINE THE TYPES OF BUSINESSES THAT HAVE THE HIGHEST POTENTIAL IMPACT IN THAT SPACE. AS FOR THOSE NICHE COMMERCIAL USES AND OTHER USES, I THINK WE DO HAVE TO LOOK AT THAT ACROSS THE WHOLE CITY. WE HAVE TO BE OPEN TO COMMERCIAL USES THAT ARE NOT RETAIL, COMMERCIAL USES THAT HAVE A HIGHER EMPLOYEE COUNT OR A HIGHER REVENUE AMOUNT THAT WE DO NOT HAVE AS MUCH SPACE FOR RIGHT NOW. WHETHER OR NOT THIS PROJECT IS APPROPRIATE FOR THAT, I'D HAVE TO DIG INTO IT A LITTLE BIT MORE TO UNDERSTAND. CAN YOU COMMENT AT ALL ABOUT THE PROXIMITY OF MASON?

I THINK THAT THE PROXIMITY OF MASON IS A BENEFIT TO MOST OF OUR BUILDINGS. AND AS WE'VE CONTINUED TO BUILD OUT OUR RELATIONSHIP WITH MASON, IT'S HARD TO SAY IF THAT WOULD BE. I THINK THERE'S CERTAINLY BEEN CONVERSATION ABOUT IF THERE WAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO PARTNER, IF THERE WAS A PROJECT THAT MAYBE COULD GO INTO ANY ONE OF THE POTENTIAL PROJECTS IN OLD TOWN, THAT I THINK ALL PARTIES WOULD BE OPEN TO THAT. IS THERE ANYTHING ON THE TABLE? NOT THAT I'M AWARE OF. BUT POTENTIAL FOR SURE. YEAH, I THINK THE, WHETHER THERE'S AN AGREEMENT OR NOT, I THINK THE IMMEDIATE QUESTION THAT COMES TO MIND IS JUST SIMPLY THE PROXIMITY AND PRESENCE. YOU HAVE A POPULATION THERE AND IN TERMS OF SEEKING OUT RETAIL, FOR INSTANCE, A CONCERN HAS BEEN THAT THEY SEEK IT OUT CURRENTLY SOMEWHERE OTHER THAN THE CITY OF FAIRFAX.

AND YET THEY'RE RIGHT NEXT DOOR. THIS MAY BE A WONDERFUL OPPORTUNITY TO CONTRIBUTE TO THAT SOLUTION. AND IT'S BEEN A LONGSTANDING ONE. AND AGAIN, WITHOUT ANY AGREEMENT WITH THE UNIVERSITY, THAT MAY BE SOMETHING THAT COULD ENHANCE AND POSSIBLY, YOU KNOW, HELP ENABLE THAT. BUT STILL, I THINK THERE'S A SIMPLE PROXIMITY ISSUE. THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS STUDENTS ARE GOING SOMEWHERE ELSE. YEAH. AND I THINK WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THE MIX OF RETAIL, RESTAURANT VERSUS RETAIL VERSUS A PLACE YOU GO INTO SHOP. AND THAT IS NOT GOING TO BE SOLVED ON ANY ONE PROPERTY. BECAUSE THE PLACES THAT HAVE BEEN REFERENCED THAT PEOPLE GO TO TO SHOP ARE VERY LARGE DEVELOPED PLANS. AND SO I THINK THERE ARE LIMITS TO WHAT WE CAN DO, BUT CERTAINLY UPDATING PROJECTS SUCH AS THIS HELP US IN THAT OVERARCHING DISCUSSION.

WE DON'T, WE'RE NOT LOOKING AT A PROJECT OF ONE OWNER AND ONE DEVELOPER ACROSS A SCALE WHERE WE COULD CHANGE THE RETAIL ENVIRONMENT, BUT ADDITIONAL PEOPLE WILL SUPPORT THE EXISTING RETAIL AS WELL. THANK YOU. COUNCIL MEMBER HALL? DIDN'T SHE HAVE HER HAND UP? I WAS JUST GOING TO DISPUTE SOME OF THE POINTS THAT YOU HAD GOTTEN AGAINST THE THINGS THAT I'D SAID, BUT I REALIZED IT'S PROBABLY NOT WORTH IT IN THIS VENUE. THANK YOU. OKAY. MAYBE WE'LL GET A BOOKSTORE. MAYBE WE'LL GET A BOOKSTORE IN OUR NEW RETAIL SPACE BECAUSE IT'S AMAZING THAT A CITY NEXT TO A UNIVERSITY DOESN'T HAVE ONE. ANY FURTHER COMMENTS? COUNCIL MEMBER BATES. SO CERTAINLY THIS IS A REALLY EXCITING PROJECT AND I THINK IT HAS A LOT OF POTENTIAL AND IS CERTAINLY HEADED IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.

AND I DO WANT TO POINT OUT THAT IT IS ONE STORY ABOVE NOT ONLY THE SMALL AREA PLAN RECOMMENDED AT MAXIMUM HEIGHT, BUT ALSO WHAT'S CURRENTLY ON THE SITE RIGHT THERE. IT'S JUST ONE STORY ABOVE WHAT'S THERE RIGHT NOW. YOU KNOW, ONE STORY IS ONE STORY. AND I DO BELIEVE THAT WE NEED TO JUSTIFY THAT ADDITIONAL STORY IN TERMS OF THE BENEFIT TO THE COMMUNITY. AND I KNOW THAT YOU ALL ARE STILL HAVING DISCUSSIONS AND HOPE THAT YOU WILL CONTINUE TO SEE HOW YOU CAN RESPOND TO FEEDBACK FROM LOCAL HOMEOWNERS, THE STAFF, PLANNING COMMISSION, AND WHAT WE'VE SAID TO YOU AS WELL. BUT I THINK IT'S SEVENLY HEADED IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. AND I ALSO DO WANT TO PERHAPS TAKE A STEP BACK AND THINK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, AND I BELIEVE THAT THIS WAS BACK WHEN I WAS LITTLE, WHEN THE TOWNHOUES ACROSS THE STREET WERE FIRST BUILT.

SO NOT REALLY SOMETHING I REMEMBER REAL CLEARLY, BUT, YOU KNOW, AT THE TIME, YOU HAD THREE TO FOUR STORY, INCLUDING THE TOP TERRIST LEVEL TOWNHOUSES, BUILT, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY RIGHT ACROSS THE BIKE TRAIL FROM ONE STORY SINGLE FAMILY HOMES. AND THOSE ARE FIRST BUILT, THERE MAY HAVE BEEN SIMILAR CONCERNS ABOUT THE STEP UP IN HEIGHT THAT THOSE REPRESENTED. BUT NOW, I MEAN, I, YOU KNOW, BARELY REMEMBER THEM NOT BEING THERE. AND I THINK MOST PEOPLE PROBABLY DON'T REALLY GIVE IT A SECOND THOUGHT. SO NOW WE HAVE A SIMILAR CONVERSATION AROUND THE HEIGHT ON AT THIS PROJECT, SIX STORIES, AND, OR, YOU KNOW, SIX STORIES ON CHAMBERS ROAD, STEPPING DOWN FOUR STORIES. AND SO I THINK THAT IT'S IMPORTANT TO PUT THAT INTO CONTEXT.

THANK YOU. ANYTHING ELSE, COUNCIL MEMBER, MOTION? ANYTHING ELSE, COUNCIL MEMBER, MCQUILLEN. THANK YOU. I JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY. I THINK SOME OF THE RESIDENTS I'VE HEARD FROM, THE CONCERNS REGARDING SETBACK AND HEIGHT ARE BECAUSE, AS YOU'VE SEEN THIS EVENING IN THIS PRESENTATION, THAT WHENEVER COUNCIL MAKES A SPECIAL EXCEPTION, THE DEVELOPERS COMING IN AND USE THOSE SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS TO THEN USE THAT AS REASONING FOR ASKING FOR THEIR SPECIAL EXCEPTION. SO WHAT BECOMES SIX FLOORS OR MORE? WE HAVE A SMALL AREA PLAN FOR A REASON. WE HAD RESIDENTS AND WE HAD BOARDS, COMMISSIONS, PUT INFORMATION INTO THAT AND TIME INTO THAT. AND SO I JUST THINK THAT WE NEED TO RESPECT THE FACT THAT THAT WORK WAS DONE AS WELL AND THAT THERE'S A REASON WE HAVE A SMALL AREA PLAN.

AND SO THE CONCERNS THAT I'VE BEEN HEARING FROM RESIDENTS IN RELATION TO THOSE THINGS ARE BECAUSE IT SETS A PRECEDENT FOR THE NEXT DEVELOPER COMING IN TO THEN ASK FOR MORE AND GREATER EXCEPTION. I JUST THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT. THANK YOU. COUNCILMEMBER BATES? I DO ALSO WANT TO POINT TO A SPECIFIC PROVISION FROM THE SOMOLAR AREA PLAN SECTION. LASTLY, THE OLD TOWN STUDY AREA MAY CONSIDER UNIQUE AND SPECIAL PROJECTS WITHIN THE DOWNTOWN AREA SUCH AS INSTITUTIONAL USES, BOUTIQUE HOTEL, PERFORMING ARTS CENTER. THESE UNIQUE USES HAVE SPECIAL PUBLIC MERIT AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT BENEFITS MAY REQUIRE EXCEPTIONS TO THE HEIGHT LIMITS DEPICTED HERE AND ARE SUBJECT TO FURTHER REVIEW BY CITY STAFF.

SO, YOU KNOW, IN OTHER WORDS, DEPENDING ON THE USE AND THE CIVIC BENEFIT, THOSE MAXIMUM HEIGHTS ARE NOT NECESSARILY THE END-ALL BE-ALL. BUT, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, WE NEED TO SEE SOMETHING FROM THE DEVELOPER TO JUSTIFY THAT ADDITIONAL HEIGHT. AND AGAIN, ALSO, I WAS COMPARING THIS TO THE BUILDINGS THAT ARE CURRENTLY THERE ON THE SITE AND HAVE BEEN FOR MANY DECADES THAT ARE FIVE STORIES. SO, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, JUST AN ADDITIONAL STORY BEYOND THAT. THANKS. COUNCILMEMBER PETERSON. JUST TO FOLLOW UP ON THE PART OF THE COMMUNITY FEEDBACK ON THIS. AND FIRST, THE, THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF KIND OF INDEXING. WHAT I THINK I'VE HEARD THIS EVENING IS INDEXING THE SIZE, SCALE, AND THE STRUCTURE OF WHAT HAPPENS HERE BASED ON WHAT HAPPENED NEXT DOOR AT THE DAVIS PROPERTY.

YOU'RE PROBABLY AWARE THAT RESULTED IN QUITE A BIT OF CONCERN BY THE COMMUNITY. SO THE IDEA THAT THAT IS PRECEDENT SETTING AND SHOULD BE THE BASIS UPON AND THE TEMPLATE UPON WHICH WE DO OTHER DEVELOPMENTS IS I DON'T HEAR THAT THAT'S ACCEPTED IN THE COMMUNITY. I THINK WE NEED TO BE THINKING A LITTLE BIT MORE INDEPENDENTLY ABOUT THIS RATHER THAN KIND OF BENCHMARKING WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE AGAINST THAT PROJECT. IN THIS CASE, PART OF WHAT'S GOING ON THAT I THINK IS CREATING CONCERNS, IT'S NOT JUST HEIGHT. IT'S DENSITY AND HEIGHT COMBINED. AND THE TWO OF THOSE THINGS PUT TOGETHER RESULT IN SOMETHING THAT FEELS OVERWHELMING. AND THAT IS THE ONE WORD THAT REALLY THE TRIGGER WORD THAT COMES OUT OF THIS WHEN PEOPLE LOOK AT IT.

IT FEELS OVERWHELMING. AND THERE'S CONCERN ABOUT THAT. AND WE'VE HEARD A LOT OF OTHER SPECIFIC CONCERNS THIS EVENING. BUT IF THERE'S ONE THING THAT I THINK WOULD BE VERY HELPFUL TO ADDRESS FUNDAMENTALLY GOING FORWARD, IT'S HOW TO APPROACH THIS IN A WAY THAT IS NOT QUITE SO OVERWHELMING TO THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN THIS AREA AND THE PEOPLE WHO USE THIS AREA. THANK YOU. COUNCIL MEMBER BATES. AND ONE MORE POINT I HAD MEANT TO BRING UP. LOOKING AT THE PARKING LOT, YOU KNOW, I CERTAINLY UNDERSTAND PERHAPS THAT THIS IS THE WAY THAT IT'S BEEN DONE, WHERE YOU TRY TO HAVE THE PARKING SPOTS AS CLOSE TO THE RETAIL AND COMMERCIAL USES AS POSSIBLE. BUT, YOU KNOW, GIVEN THAT THIS IS AN OLD TOWN, WE'RE TRYING TO PERHAPS BE A BIT LESS CAR CENTRIC, WOULD IT BE POSSIBLE TO CONSIDER PERHAPS MOVING THOSE TOP PARKING SPOTS IN THAT LOT DOWN TO BE DIRECTLY ACCESSED FROM THE STREET?

AND THEN PERHAPS TURN AROUND THE COUPLE OF THE SPOTS ON THE SIDE. YOU MAY HAVE TO SACRIFICE A FEW SPOTS THERE. BUT AS WAS MENTIONED, YOU KNOW, THE SITE OVERALL ANYWAY IS A BIT OVERPARKED. AND YOU COULD PERHAPS FIT THOSE IN ELSEWHERE. BUT THAT WOULD ALLOW YOU A BIT MORE ROOM FOR ADDITIONAL PUBLIC OPEN SPACE AND OR BUILDING COVERAGE, WHICH, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, WE'RE WAY BELOW THE MAXIMUM BUILDING COVERAGE HERE, TO PERHAPS DO A BIT MORE OF WHAT WE'D LIKE TO SEE FROM THE PROJECT OR, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS WHAT YOU'D LIKE TO SEE FROM THE PROJECT. SO IF THAT'S SOMETHING THAT YOU COULD CONSIDER. AND YEAH, SO ANY RESPONSE TO THAT? YEAH, I MEAN, THIS IS A FEEDBACK SESSION. WE'RE GOING TO GO AHEAD AND TAKE ALL THESE COMMENTS AND COLLABORATE AS A TEAM AND FIGURE OUT HOW WE MOVE FORWARD.

SO IT'S BEEN A LOT OF FEEDBACK, AND THANK YOU FOR THAT. ALSO, I'D LIKE TO ADD THIS TO IT, TOO. AGAIN, GOING BACK TO THE ISSUE OF THE HEIGHT, DENSITY, ET CETERA. I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY OF YOU ALL ARE REAL FAMILIAR, IF YOU WILL, WITH THE ANNADALE AREA, BUT THE ANNADALE HAS HAD A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN FOR A LONG CREATIVE TIME. AND CHRISTOPHER COMPANY HAS ACTUALLY JUST FINISHED UP FAIRLY RECENTLY A TOWNHOUSE PROJECT OVER IN ANNADALE. IT HAD BROAD-BASED SUPPORT, ET CETERA. BUT THERE'S A LOT OF OTHER AREAS IN ANNADALE THAT THE COUNTY WOULD REALLY LIKE TO SEE DEVELOPED. THE PROBLEM, THOUGH, IS WHEN YOU ACTUALLY DO, AGAIN, THE MATH OF JUST TAKING A LOOK OF EXISTING STRUCTURES AND WHAT THOSE VALUES ARE, AND IS IT ECONOMICALLY VIABLE TO GO IN TO BUY THOSE PROPERTIES, TO TEAR THEM DOWN, TO GET TO THE GROUND, TO BUILD THE,

THAT'S THE REASON WHAT IS DRIVING THE DENSITY. AGAIN, IS THE PURE ASPECT OF ECONOMICS. SO, BECAUSE WITH THE GENERAL MARKET FORCES, SINCE THIS IS NOT ANY KIND OF A PUBLIC PROCESS, THE NUMBERS HAVE TO BE THERE FOR IT, OR OTHERWISE IT DOESN'T GET DEVELOPED. AND MAYBE THAT'S THE DECISION THAT IS MADE, IS WE WOULD PREFER TO HAVE WHAT WE HAVE NOW, VERSUS SOMETHING NEW. I MEAN, THAT'S CERTAINLY, ULTIMATELY, YOUR ALL'S DECISION OF THE VOTE. WE HAVE NO VOTE ON THAT. IT'S ONLY YOU ALL. WE ONLY KNOW FROM OUR STANDPOINT THAT IT HAS TO PENCIL OUT OR OTHERWISE. IT'S JUST, I MEAN, THERE IS NO DECISION ABOUT IT. IT'S VERY SIMPLE. IT'S EITHER IT WORKS OR IT DOESN'T. AND THE, TO DROP THAT HEIGHT TO THE AMOUNT THAT IS BEING REQUESTED, IT JUST DOESN'T WORK.

JUST BEING. CANDLEMENT PETERSON? ONE THING I FORGOT TO ASK, AND I MAY HAVE MISSED IT, IT MAY BE BUILT INTO WHAT YOU'VE DONE, BIKES. SO WE TALKED A LOT ABOUT MODE SHIFT AND ALTERNATIVES AND GEORGE MASON AND AN ACTIVITY CORRIDOR AND ALL THAT. I DON'T REMEMBER SEEING HOW BIKE ACCESS AND A BIKE PATH GETS INCORPORATED INTO THIS. AND OF COURSE THAT'S SEPARATE FROM THE PEDESTRIAN GREENWAY THAT'S IN THERE. YOU DON'T WANT TO BE USING THAT FOR BIKE TRAVEL. WHAT IS THE PLAN ON BIKING FOR THIS AREA? WELL, WE DO HAVE BUILT IN, IN TERMS OF OUR FACILITY, BIKE RACKS. WE DON'T HAVE SPECIFIC, SEPARATE BIKE LANES, IF YOU WILL, THAT IS THERE. I MEAN, IT IS REALISTICALLY UTILIZING THE STREET SYSTEM THAT IS THERE.

I'M UNAWARE OF ANY SEPARATE ELEMENT. YEAH, THERE ARE PROTECTED BIKE LANES. SORRY, WE'RE NOT PROTECTED, BUT THERE ARE BIKE LANES THAT ARE CURRENTLY ON UNIVERSITY THAT EXIST THERE. AND THEN THE CITY'S PLAN IS ACTUALLY TO CONTINUE TO EXTEND IT. SO WE WOULD REALLY ANTICIPATE MOST OF THE CYCLING ACTIVITY WOULD COME OFF OF UNIVERSITY. AND THEN THE NEW STREET THAT WILL RUN THROUGH THE SITE IS MEANT TO BE SHARED. SO I'M NOT EXACTLY SURE WHERE THE BIKE ROOM IS IN THE PROJECT, BUT THAT WOULD BE ACCESSED OFF OF THAT. JUST TO BE CLEAR, SO THERE'S NO PLAN TO EXPAND, ENHANCE, UPGRADE, ET CETERA, THE BIKE PATH, WHICH IS CURRENTLY A BIKE LANE. IS THAT CORRECT? THERE'S A LANE, AT LEAST IT'S BEING DESCRIBED AS THAT, ON THE STREET.

AND THAT'S THE PLAN IS SIMPLY TO CONTINUE TO USE THAT IN AN AS IS CONDITION? THAT IS, I MEAN, THERE ARE CURRENTLY THOSE FACILITIES EXIST. THE FACILITY I'M REFERRING TO IS THE ACTUAL EITHER THE STREET OR SOMETHING THAT IS NEXT TO THE STREET. THAT'S ACTUALLY USED FOR BIKING, FOR BIK ACCESS, BACK AND FORTH, BETWEEN GEORGE MASON, BETWEEN OLD TOWN, BETWEEN GEORGE MASON AND OLD TOWN, AND THIS PARTICULAR DEVELOPMENT. THAT'S WHAT I'M REALLY REFERRING TO. YES, THERE ARE STRIPED BIKE LANES ON UNIVERSITY. NOT FOR THE, AND THEN THE PLAN THAT THE CITY HAS IS TO CONTINUE TO EXTEND THOSE WHERE THEY MIGHT, THEY DON'T EXIST TODAY. BUT IMMEDIATELY JASENT TO THE SITE ON UNIVERSITY, THERE ARE STRIPED BIKE LANES.

OKAY. THAT WOULD BE A GREAT THING TO JUST THINK A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT, BECAUSE IF YOU'RE REALLY ANTICIPATING ALTERNATIVES TO AUTOMABILLE USE, AND YOU'VE GOT 392 RESIDENCES THERE, ET CETERA, ET CETERA, IT MAY BE WORTH LOOKING AT KIND OF ENHANCING YOUR APPROACH TO MAKING BIKE USE A LITTLE BIT MORE EFFECTIVE. THANKS. I APPRECIATE THE COMMENT. THANK YOU. YES. COUNCIL MEMBER BATES. SO THE 10-FOOT WIDE PASS ON EITHER SIDE OF THE PROJECT ALONG CHAMBERS ROAD UNIVERSITY DRIVE, THAT'S REQUIRED BY THE CITY. AND I BELIEVE THE RATIONALE BEHIND THAT IS SO THAT THOSE PASS THEMSELVES WOULD BE UP TO SHARED USE PATH WITH SPECIFICATIONS. IS THAT RIGHT? YES. THERE'S A COUPLE OF THINGS THAT GO INTO THE 10-FOOT SIDEWALK REQUIREMENT IN OLD TOWN, ONE OF WHICH IS FOR SHARED USE,

AT LEAST BEFORE WE STARTED BUILDING BIKE LANES AND THINGS IN THE MID-2000s. SO, YES, THOSE COULD BE USED AND WOULD CONNECT TO WHERE THEY CURRENTLY EXIST OR WOULD BE WIDENED. NOW, THE ENTIRE FRONTAGE ALONG THAT MEGA BLOCK IS NOT 10 FEET SO EVEN IF THEY BUILD THEIR SECTION, IT WOULD BE AN ENCUMBRANCE FOR THE RIDER BECAUSE THEY WOULD HIT A FOUR OR SIX FOOT SIDEWALK AT THAT POINT. YEAH. YEAH. BUT AT LEAST WE HAVE IT THERE, YOU KNOW, IF THIS IS BUILT. AND I DO ALSO WANT TO, YOU KNOW, GOING BACK TO THE QUESTION OF HEIGHT AND DENSITY, YOU KNOW, OTHER THAN PERHAPS AT FAIRFAC CIRCLE, I WOULD THINK THAT THIS IS FROM AN ECONOMIC PERSPECTIVE, ENVIRONMENTAL PERSPECTIVE, PERHAPS ONE PLACE IN THE CITY WHERE WE'D LIKE TO SEE ADDITIONAL DENSITY GIVEN THAT IT'S RIGHT BETWEEN BUS ROUTE, RIGHT NEAR, YOU KNOW, Q BUS ROUTE,

AND THEN RIGHT NEAR METRO BUS ROUTE, AS OPPOSED TO PERHAPS SEEING THOSE POTENTIAL RESIDENTS A BIT MORE, YOU KNOW, DISBURSED WHEREVER, ALSO CLOSER TO SHOPPING, DINING, AMENITIES, NECESSITIES THAT ARE RIGHT THERE IN OLD TOWN. AND ADDITIONALLY SEEING THOSE RESIDENTS CLUSTERED WITHIN A DEVELOPMENT THAT IS PLANNING ON PURSUING LEAD CERTIFICATION, YOU KNOW, I THINK IS ANOTHER IMPORTANT POINT. YEAH, SO AGAIN, YOU KNOW, AND THEN EVEN FROM THE TRAFFIC PERSPECTIVE, YOU KNOW, THE, YES, YOU KNOW, THERE WOULD BE MORE TRIPS OVERALL, YOU KNOW, THROUGHOUT THE DAY ON THE, FROM THE SITE, TO AND FROM THE SITE, BUT IT'S TO MY MIND REALLY THE PEAK HOURS THAT WE WANT TO LOOK AT MORE CLOSELY AND THOSE PERHAPS GOING DOWN A BIT, EVEN THROUGH

WITH THE OVERALL TRIPS GOING UP, I THINK TO ME IS VERY PREFERABLE. SO IN TERMS OF THE DENSITY, YOU KNOW, I'M KIND OF TRYING TO THINK THROUGH WHAT THE ISSUE WITH IT IS, YOU KNOW, FROM THE TRAFFIC PERSPECTIVE, FROM PERHAPS THE NEIGHBORHOOD CHARACTER PERSPECTIVE, WE'RE LOOKING AT A SITE THAT IS VERY, TO A VERY SIGNIFICANT DEGREE MADE UP OF A LOT OF BARON PARKING LOTS AND VERY, YOU KNOW, OLD, FRANKLY, IN MY OPINION, UGLY OFFICE BUILDINGS AND I THINK THAT THE NEW PROJECT, YOU KNOW, GRANET IT COULD CERTAINLY PERHAPS BE FURTHER MODIFIED IN TERMS OF FACADE AND THE OVERALL AESTHETIC IN SOME WAY, BUT WOULD REPRESENT A MAJOR STEP UP IN TERMS OF THE, YOU KNOW, THE CONTRIBUTION TO THE STREETSCAPE AND THE

THE AESTHETIC OF THE AREA. AND THEN FROM THE ADDITIONAL HOUSING PERSPECTIVE, I KNOW THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE PERHAPS SOME PEOPLE OUT THERE WHO DON'T WANT TO SEE A LOT OF NEW NEIGHBORS IN OUR, IN THE CITY, BUT THIS WOULD REPRESENT A SIGNIFICANT CONTRIBUTION TO HOUSING, INCLUDING AFFORDABLE HOUSING. YOU KNOW, THAT 6% OF 24 UNITS IS NOT INSIGNIFICANT. AND EVEN MARKET RATE HOUSING, THE EFFECT ON HOUSING AVAILABILITY AND AFFORDABILITY, YOU KNOW, IS AN ADDITIONAL BENEFIT. SO, YEAH, THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. ARE WE GOOD? DO YOU HAVE FEEDBACK? THE ONLY FINAL COMMENT I WOULD MAKE IS THAT IT DOES HAVE TO MATH. AND WE UNDERSTAND THAT IF WE CAN'T PASS A PROJECT THAT MATHS, THEN WE END UP WITH ASFAULT PARKING LOTS AND OLD OFFICE BUILDINGS, BECAUSE

THAT'S HOW IT WORKS. SO, $17 MILLION IS A LOT OF MONEY AS YOUR BASELINE TO BUILD ANYTHING. SO, I UNDERSTAND THAT THIS HAS TO BE FINANCIALLY FEASIBLE, AND I HOPE THE RESIDENTS OF THE CITY UNDERSTAND THAT IT HAS TO BE FINANCIALLY FEASIBLE OR YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BUILD IT, BECAUSE THAT'S JUST HOW DEVELOPMENT WORKS. SO, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THE PRESENTATION, AND WE LOOK FORWARD TO YOUR RESUBMISSION ON AUGUST 1ST AND TO SEEING YOU AGAIN. THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH. MS. SHINNIBARY, WHAT DO WE HAVE NEXT? OUR LAST ITEM IS A DISCUSSION ON TRANSLATION SERVICES FOR CITY COUNCIL MEETINGS. I'M GOING TO RECOGNIZE MATTHEW KISER, OUR COMMUNICATIONS AND MARKETING DIRECTOR FOR THE PRESENTATION. COMMUNICATIONS AND MARKETING DIRECTOR

OF THE PRESENTATIONS AND MARKETING DIRECTOR OF THE PRESENTATIONS AND MARKETING DIRECTOR дедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедедеде Welcome communications team. Hello, hello. Should we wait for Mr. Peterson before we proceed or should we just jump in? We can wait a sec. We can wait a second. We've all brought up our URL link.

It's just sitting there like not impressing us. So we're kind of waiting for you to tell us what happens next. What happens next? I'll press a button. Oh, fantastic. Ooh, it's like a surprise inside. Oh, English. Okay. Okay, English. If you know another language, you can select another language. Okay. Okay. Let's see. Meet MediaScribe. How do you change the language? Oh, you go to the person. The person? Oh, okay. Oh, okay. Okay. I'll just do it. I'll just do it. I'll just do it. Okay. All right. So I'm just going to jump in. First of all, thank you. I'm here with Dave Welch. He's our executive video producer. And Giles Abalos. If you haven't met her, she's our web content manager. She's also a fluent Spanish speaker.

You will be hearing from her shortly. So we were here in April to present a solution that we found for making these meetings more accessible for people who don't speak English as their first language. And we reviewed a few of those options with you at that time and mentioned that the people have been able to speak English. And we reviewed a few of those options with you at that time and mentioned that the people have been able to speak English. And I'm just going to talk to you about the people who have been able to speak English and speak English. And we reviewed a few of those options with you at that time and mentioned that we were going to proceed with MediaScribe, which is really just an upgrade on the service we

have in the back room already. So it was pretty easy for us to move in that direction using the cable grant funding from the franchise fees. So Dave actually managed that whole process, working with our vendor to install the unit and the software that goes with it. And we've tested it extensively. We had two police officers in here, one who speaks Vietnamese, one who speaks Korean. And they both signed off on the translation capability. Jial has tested it in Spanish. And so we wanted to share it with you and the community to see how it works. I think to start, we're just going to show this really brief tutorial video that we created that we already have online. We're going to be pushing this out on channel 12 as well as social media, just so people

will understand how it works. There will be a Spanish voiceover version as well, probably by the end of the week. But here we go. Meet MediaScribe, a simple way to help everyone stay connected during city meetings. With real-time captions and translations in over 70 languages for meetings held in the council chambers and the work session room at City Hall. While students can follow along right on their own phones. Here's how it works. Scan the QR code. Very dramatic. Tap the icon. Select a language from over 70 options. If selecting the audio option, please wear headphones. Select your preferences, including font size, line spacing, font style, and dyslexia and high contrast options. Read, listen, and understand.

Fairfax City and MediaScribe, making local government accessible to all. So that's how it works. Pretty straightforward. This is a very, very new product. To our knowledge, nobody else in the region is using it yet. So thank you for supporting something cutting edge and different and important. The capabilities of the product are still evolving and maturing. So right now, the best way to use it is if you speak a language other than English and you want to participate in these meetings, it's really from a passive perspective. So you could come to a city council meeting, a work session meeting, and hear the discussions about a development. You know, the one you guys just talked about. Someone could sit and read that or listen to that in their own language.

So the two-way capability where you guys can actually have a conversation with somebody is being developed. They're expecting that within 12 months. But there is a bit of a workaround that we're going to demonstrate for you right now that is kind of cool. It only works with Spanish. And basically, the key is you have to speak into the microphone, right? That's where your language is being captured. So right now, the functionality is set knowing that English is the language to look for. And then that's how anybody with the app can translate it to their selected language out of the 70 options. For the two-way conversation part to work, you have to tell it which language you're going to be using first.

So we're going to tell it to look for Spanish. And it should translate for you in English. Let me stop here. And so that's all it took was a couple taps on the iPad to make the switch. It just resets the system to look for Spanish. And so now, is your mic on? Yes. Hello? Yeah. Okay. So I will say a few phrases in Spanish. And it should translate for you. Okay. Buenas noches. Gracias por hacer que estas reuniones sean accesibles para los residentes que no hablan inglés como su primer idioma. Hoy es martes, 7 de julio del dos mil veintiséis. La ciudad de Fairfax fue fundada en 1805 como el pueblo de Providence. El número de teléfono principal de la alcaldía es 703-385-7855. La dirección de la alcaldía es 104-55, calle Armstrong, Fairfax, Virginia.

La casa Radcliffe Allison Poser construida en 1812 es la residencia más antigua dentro de la ciudad de Fairfax. Y hoy alberga un museo abierto al público. So, you can imagine if Jayel were to show up for her three minutes during a regular council meeting to share her thoughts with you, it would be that easy. She would be able to speak in her native language and you would be able to understand what she was asking, requesting, commenting on. Now, here's the fun part. So, if you would like to talk to Jayel, we have to switch it back so the system is looking for English from your side. Just takes a second. This is the functionality that would be much more seamless within the year. This is just brand new.

This is new stuff here. So, now, if you would like to follow Robert's rules and announce who's going to speak so that the transcription will capture that. And she'll know if she were reading. But anyway, so if you would like to announce someone or if you would like to speak to Jayel directly. Sure. I'm going to recognize Councilmember Anthony Amos. Councilmember Amos, would you like to speak to us in whichever language you would like to choose? This is Councilmember Amos. I suppose I shall. I guess I can't say voluntold. That's not a word. But, no, this looks like a fantastic system. And I am very excited to see how this is implemented, especially for our growingly diverse population. I think this is going to be extremely exciting.

And I can't wait to see its full depth of implementation. So, it doesn't make for good TV. But the way it would work is she would have scanned, she would have had the app scanned, possibly wearing earbuds, and possibly hearing that in Spanish as you were talking. If not reading it. But we can facilitate a two-way conversation. We could, if anybody's interested, if you select Spanish as the language and tap the radio button for audio, as any of us speak into the microphone, you should hear the Spanish version of that translation being spoken through your phone speaker. Because when we first talked about this, my understanding was they didn't have the audio. So, now you actually can listen to it.

So, to me, that's a step up from when we originally talked about how this would work. And now you're saying six months out or something. It would be even more seamless than that. That's the hope. They're anticipating 12 months to finish that. They call it origination language, what the system is looking for, where it can auto-detect the language, and then be able to spit out the translation that you choose. So, yeah. When we first spoke about this, they had Spanish as a spoken audio option, but they weren't committing to it because it was beta. And since then, now they have, there's a list of languages that will do spoken audio. I have the list. It's more than a dozen at this point. So, they're continuing to modify and improve the language models.

Yeah. I mean, I think this is just really the cutting edge of what's going to be, again, and I'm sure AI has a lot to do with the speed at which we're going to figure out, like, auto-detecting, if you're speaking Urdu. It'll, I have a feeling that it's just going to be a lot more seamless and all of us will have devices or apps on our phone everywhere, which will make life better for our residents. It'll make life better when we travel abroad. I mean, there's just, there's a lot of benefit to figuring out the immediate real-time translation of multiple languages. And I've always felt like that was, like, we were there. It just had not been operationalized into something that regular people can use out in the wild.

Council Member Amos. Two things. One, how does it work for when we're attending virtually, for example, Council Member McQuillan and Council Member Hall? Hopefully, they're able to experience the same thing you did because it's just a website. So, with that URL or scanning the code that takes you to that URL, it should be the same experience. And it's not tied to specific microphones, so even when they speak, it'll also get transcribed. Good question. That's what I was wondering. Yeah, if they speak, so this computer is basically another microphone for this room that is routed through our broadcast system. So, if they're speaking, they should, it should detect them and translate. So, that's.

Sounds like a test run. A test run. I see Council Member McQuillan. Yeah, Council Member McQuillan, would you like to say something? Yes, it's working really well on my end. This is just really cool. It was neat because I could mute my microphone but then still have you speaking to me in Spanish on my phone. So, that was, it's working well. It's really impressive. Thank you. Wonderful. Remote testing. Who knew? Anything else? Questions? Oh, go. Council Member Hall. Council Member Hall. Thank you. Yes. Ditto to exactly what Rachel said. Very, very cool. And I'm happy to see how the technology has expanded since we discussed this just a few short months ago. And I'm sure it will just continue to explode in a very rapid period of time.

So, thank you so much for the work that went into this, for finding this. And I'm really, really excited about this. Is this going to work like for all the meetings, not just City Council meetings? What about when the Planning Commission or Barr or anybody who uses the chamber? It's the microphones in these two rooms. So, yes. Right. So, it's not just for City Council meetings or work sessions. It's any board or advisory board that is in the chamber or the workroom. The one thing that we have to consider is, is there video support for it? So, for like the BAR meetings, that's kind of a press record and walk away. So, but the Planning Commission, the school board, and your meetings, those are all facilitated by video staff.

So, someone needs to punch it over. Or just if there's something that arises, a problem, there's someone here to address it. Okay. Well, that's good to know. Yeah, that's a lot of meetings. Yeah, I mean, we're broadcasting those meetings and I would think especially with the school board meetings too, it might, people might tune in more often. Yes. If they can understand in their native language what's being discussed, I would imagine. Council Member Peterson? If two people are speaking Spanish, is this set up so that somebody who's not a Spanish speaker will read that dialogue in English? I think the answer is yes. Yes. We, that, that's where, it's not tricky, but we have to stop the transcription, change the preset in, in the system to Spanish.

And when they speak Spanish, it's looking for Spanish as the input language. And then it will translate to English or another language that you choose. So, you're looking at an input that'll designate language and then you're also designating an output language. And that's how the specs get set up is what I mean? Essentially. It, it all goes out to a cloud and then back. So, it's, it's looking for a language that we set as the preset. So, we tell it, look for, look for Spanish or look for English as the input language and translate from there. And that's where down the line, the auto detect, when they, when they get that fixed or not fixed, but when that, when that's implemented and it can auto detect languages, we won't have to do as much swap over for our preset.

Okay. Yeah. The goal is a more, uh, flowing conversation back and forth without the cutovers and the weights, but it's coming. There's a market for it. It's market driven. Um, and we're excited that the city is on the leading edge of it, to be honest. There's, there's a little bit of a delay function, I think right now. I don't know whether that's going to speed up or we just need to adjust to it. Do you have a sense? I don't have a sense on the, the delay and improving the delay, something I can ask the company and see if they have an answer. Does this require Wi-Fi? This would also function over your data plan. Okay. Very helpful, but potentially slower, right? Your Wi-Fi is going to be faster.

Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yes. Can I just make a plug? Sure. Um, JL built a web, a website today, um, that has the video and the steps, um, for how to do this. So it's, it's already available. Uh, we plan on including the QR code, um, on printed agendas on the table before these meetings. So anyone who arrives can pick one up. Um, we also created a step-by-step flyer with the code. The code's not going to change. So these will be available as well, possibly posted on a wall nearby. So, uh, just so people see them and know that the service exists and take advantage of it. So, so will you send out something citywide? Yes. Text, email, and will this be making an appearance in the city scene at some point to kind of explain it?

Yes. Fantastic. I think everyone in the city should be really, really excited. Maybe they'll show up and want to participate. Councilmember Hall? Yeah. I just wanted to say from my perspective, not being in the building, I know sometimes the wifi there is a little sluggish. I'm only about two words behind in what I'm reading versus what you're actually saying. So I'm not seeing any lag time and I'm clear across the country right now. That's good info. That's fantastic. Another great remote testing that we didn't plan for but worked out exceedingly well. You can be across the country and tune into our meetings and listen to our meetings in the language of your choice. It doesn't get much better than that.

Any other questions and comments from anyone? Thank you so much. This is really, really excited. We are so excited about this. Thank you. And with that, I am now going to adjourn this meeting at 10, 14 p.m. on Tuesday. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.