City Council Meeting

Catherine Readgood evening I'm going to read a motion to conclude the closed meeting we had before the regular meeting at 6 55 p.m. the City Council concluded its closed meeting to discuss personnel matters I move that each of us certify that the best of each council members knowledge one only public business matters lawfully exempted from the open meeting requirements in the Virginia of free Virginia Freedom of Information Act, and two only public business matters identified in the motion convening the closed meeting were heard, discussed, or considered. All council members in favor of the certification motion, please signify by voting aye. Aye. Those opposed to the motion, please vote nay. The motion passes unanimously. So I would like to call the regular meeting of November 18th,

2025 to order. Thanks everyone for being here tonight, and if you are able and so choose, join us for the Pledge of Allegiance. I

Billy Batespledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to

Michael DeMarcopublic commentthe republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Catherine ReadI will now ask that the Fairfax City Economic Development Office and all interested parties, including the chamber, come down for our Fairfax City Holiday Small Business Month proclamation.

Fogarty Atkisonpublic commentAll right, all right, all right. Look at this. My favorite people. All my favorite

Catherine Readpeople. All my favorite people. All right. Y'all

Savannah Newburnstafflook good.

Catherine ReadOkay. Whereas the government of the city of Fairfax, Virginia, celebrates our local small businesses and the vital contributions they make to our economy and community. And whereas, according to the U.S. Small Business Administration's 2024 small business profile, there are approximately 34.8 million small businesses in the United States, representing 99.7% of all firms with paid employees, employing 45.9% of the nation's private sector workforce, and accounting for 61.1% of net new jobs created since 1995. And whereas studies show that roughly two-thirds of every dollar spent at a small business stays in the local economy, supporting other local jobs and services. And whereas Fairfax City's small businesses, ranging from boutiques and salons to restaurants, specialty shops, and professional services,

embody the entrepreneurial spirit and creativity of our residents, contributing to the city's vitality and unique character. And whereas Fairfax City Economic Development, the Central Fairfax Chamber of Commerce, and the Old Town Fairfax Business Association remain dedicated to strengthening our small business community and have partnered to present Fairfax City Holiday Small Business Month, a celebration encouraging residents and visitors to shop, dine, and experience all that Fairfax City small businesses have to offer. And whereas Fairfax City Holiday Small Business Month, taking place November 28th through December 22nd, 2025, invites the community to discover, support, and celebrate the many unique small businesses that make Fairfax City a vibrant destination.

Now, therefore, I, Catherine Reed, Mayor of the City of Fairfax, do hereby proclaim November 28th through December 22nd, 2025, as Fairfax City Holiday Small Business Month, and encourage all residents and visitors to support local merchants, service providers, and entrepreneurs by shopping small, dining local, and celebrating the season with Fairfax City small businesses, directly in the vitality and prosperity of our community. And with that,

Speaker 24take it away. I mean, you've already said so much. You've said it all. But I will echo the sentiments of the proclamation by saying that Fairfax City is very lucky to be the home base for many amazing small businesses. I fell in love with this city because of its small businesses. I'm proud to work for it because of its small businesses. This iteration of Small Business Month is new this year. It'll be a month long. We're including restaurants, retailers. You can get spa services, so many things by participating this month. And it all kicks off with a buy one get one, a 40% bonus card offer through Economic Development that will give you $40 for every 100 you spend. And that's just more dollars that you can use to spend here locally

with our retailers right now. We have over 55 participating businesses, so you can really give the gift of anything in Fairfax City. Visit ShopFFXCity to find the specials that businesses are offering all month long, and we hope to see you there. Let's spread the holiday cheer by giving the gift of something local.

Judy Frazierpublic commentWonderful.

Catherine ReadWe're going to do a photo, but I would like to say that ice cream is something you can eat 365 days a year, and Woody's ice cream particularly is probably like the most special ice cream. Just putting that out there.

Doug Coxpublic commentThank you.

J.C. MartinezstaffI

Catherine Readwill now ask Jamie Ergus, our Housing Program Manager, Mark Light, the Chair of the Housing and Healthy Communities Advisory Board, and Amini Bonani to please come down for this next proclamation. Okay. Whereas, for over 25 years, the National Coalition for the Homeless and National Student Campaign Against Hunger and Homelessness has sponsored National Hunger and Homelessness Awareness Week. And whereas the purpose of the proclamation is to educate the public about the many reasons people experience hunger and homelessness and to encourage support for homeless assistance service providers as well as community service opportunities for students and school service organizations. And whereas we continue to educate the public about the many contributing factors to pervasive hunger and homelessness in our own city and across the nation, acknowledging the importance of creating and preserving housing that residents can afford, as well as ensuring access to living wage jobs, reliable transportation, affordable child care, comprehensive health and mental health care, treatment for substance use disorders, and resources to overcome language barriers.

recognizing the need to address the systemic and structural causes that perpetuate inequities and contribute to housing instability and poverty. And whereas there are many organizations committed to providing shelter, supportive services, meals, and essential supplies to individuals and families experiencing food insecurity and homelessness, including a place to stand, bright paths, facets, food for others, food justice DMV, NAACP housing committee, Pathway Homes, Salvation Army, Shelter House, the Lamb Center, and Wesley Housing. And whereas we are fortunate to have a network of nonprofits, government agencies, faith communities, and volunteer networks that work within our city to provide necessary services addressing hunger and homelessness for people of all ages and in many different circumstances.

And whereas the City of Fairfax created a homelessness task force in 2023 to study the root causes of homelessness and to make recommendations to the City Council on how to address them, including the addition of staff capacity to address affordable housing and homelessness, as well as the establishment in July 2024 of the Housing and Healthy Communities Advisory Board, which we call HCAP. This permanent advisory board brings together both residents and professionals who are currently working within the city, providing services, programs, and housing to our community. They will be helping the council and staff to develop strategies, policies, practices, services, and budget allocations to support a healthy and thriving community for all who live and work here.

Now, therefore, I, Catherine S. Reed, Mayor of the City of Fairfax, do hereby proclaim November 16 to 22, 2025, is National Hunger and Homelessness Awareness Week in the City of Fairfax and encourage all of us to think about the ways in which we can contribute to the health of our community through volunteerism, outreach, and direct services. Too many around us are without adequate food, safe shelter, affordable housing, or the services they need to live their best lives. Let us commit to being the change we want to see. And with that, I will ask Amini Bonani to say a few words.

Amini BonaniThere we go. Thank you, Mayor Reed, members of council, and our community partners for recognizing Hunger and Homelessness Awareness Week here in the city of Fairfax. As chair of the Homelessness Task Force, we're so honored to accept this proclamation for the third year in a row. It demonstrates that in Fairfax City, addressing hunger and homelessness isn't a moment. commitment. Our affordable housing strategic plan reminds us why this work matters. Nearly half of renters in the city, including myself, and 20% of homeowners struggle to afford housing. Essential workers earning under $52,000 a year often cannot afford to live in the same community that they serve. 16% of renters expect that they may have to leave Fairfax

within the next three years because of rising housing costs. When housing becomes unstable, will hunger and homelessness rise with it? Nevertheless, we're making real progress. Just two weeks ago, the city broke ground on our first ever permanent supportive housing project, taking a transformational step towards long-term solutions. Awareness Week reminds us that behind every statistic is a neighbor, a senior choosing between groceries and medication, a student couch surfing to stay in school, or a family just one emergency away from losing their home. forward is clear. The city's affordable housing strategic plan gives us real solutions that include preserving existing affordable housing, leveraging public land, strengthening tenant

protections, and expanding community services. So today is more than just recognition. It's a call to action. A reminder that in Fairfax City we take care of one another. So together we can build a community where every resident has a safe, stable place to call home. Thank you. Thank you.

Mark LightThank you. I'm Mark Light. I'm currently the chair of the Housing and Healthy Communities Advisory Board. Susan LaCroix is the vice chair who's back here joining us tonight. I want to give you some data points because I think that the HCAB, as the mayor said, is the term that we go by, is very pleased to be able to be a part of this resolution. But I want to give you some data points because I think they're very important. There's a PIC count, which is a point-in-time count that's done every January. And for 2025, we are a part of the Fairfax County system, and there were 1,322 people that were homeless on January the 18th of 2025. 72 of those did not have a shelter in January. A very important thing that I found, though,

is that overall 31% of that 1,322 are under the age of 18. 17% are over the age of 55. So almost half of the people that are homeless in that count last time are under 18 and over 55. And it's about split 50-50 between men and women. There's also often a perception that men are homeless more than women, but it's pretty even, so 46% to 54%. And 28% of the people that were homeless have jobs. Every day they go to a job, and yet they're homeless. And 50% of the people have income, but they just don't have an income to get housing. When we think about the homeless, we often think of what we see day in and day out. But one of the things that the school system does is track the homeless. And in school year 24-25, there were 1,806 students that experienced homelessness at some time during the year.

That's a significant number. When we broke it down and we know that three schools that are located in Fairfax City, there were 61 students that experienced homelessness during that same time period. So this is real and this is here in our community. And then we think about hunger. And right now, in this current, or excuse me, last school year, there are 1,822 students in the four Fairfax City schools that were either on free lunch or reduced price lunches. And often that includes breakfast because there is that hunger issue out there. And Fairfax City has many, many partnerships. The mayor read a long list of organizations that are participating, and it's really about the partnerships, and it's about a system.

And the city is doing everything that we can to see how we can reduce those numbers, how can we reduce hunger, how can we provide those services with the nonprofits, with the governmental agencies, public safety agencies, the county, and the state. And so I think that we are working on a number of different projects, and we'll be bringing those to city council very, very soon for review and discussion. So thank you for the proclamation. Thank you.

Stacey Hardy-ChandlerDo you want a second?

Kelly O'Brienpublic commentOkay.

Mark LightPhoto. Photo.

Catherine ReadSo our final proclamation, I'm going to ask that Old Glory DC team come on down. Come on down.

Stacey Hardy-ChandlerDo it, do it.

Catherine ReadAll right, come on, everybody. Team Old Glory. Get used to hearing that because you're going to be hearing a lot more of that. And I'm about to tell you why. And I'm about to tell you why.

Fogarty Atkisonpublic commentHere's the story.

Catherine ReadWhereas. We come together to celebrate National Rugby Day, November 25th, as a tribute to one of the world's most dynamic and inspiring sports, honoring its legacy of teamwork, respect, and camaraderie. And whereas rugby's origins trace back to 1823 at rugby school in England, where a young student, William Webb Ellis, famously defied convention by picking up the ball and running with it, an act that sparked the birth of a global sport. And whereas the first official rules of rugby were written in 1845, followed by the formation of the Rugby Football Union, the RFU, in 1871, setting the stage for rugby's rapid growth and expansion throughout the world. And whereas rugby's enduring spirit is reflected both on and off the field,

where fierce competition gives way to mutual respect and friendship, exemplifying the true meaning of sportsmanship. And whereas National Rugby Day offers an opportunity to celebrate the sport's history, encourage participation, and recognize the sense of unity it fosters within communities worldwide. And whereas Old Glory D.C., founded in 2018, is the first professional rugby team based in the Washington metropolitan area and has proudly competed in Major League Rugby since 2019. And whereas beginning with the 2026 Major League Rugby season, Old Glory DC will play all home matches at George Mason University in Fairfax, Virginia, marking an exciting new chapter for both the team and the community.

And whereas Old Glory DC will partner with the city of Fairfax, its government, residents, schools, retailers, and restaurants to share the benefits of professional rugby in the spirit of its fans throughout the area. I, Catherine S. Reed, Mayor of the City of Fairfax, do hereby proclaim November 25, 2025 as National Rugby Day in the City of Fairfax and encourage the community to welcome the team and to embrace the spirit of rugby by celebrating values of teamwork, respect, and community, and the community that rugby represents. I will now turn it over

Speaker 12to

Catherine Readyou.

Speaker 12Good evening, everyone. As someone who grew up just a couple miles south of here, has been around rugby for over 20 years, it really means a lot to me to bring old glory to this city. And we've been very excited and humbled by the immediate support that we've gotten from the city, its businesses, its elected officials. And we're very much looking forward to and excited for this upcoming season at George Mason. And we can't wait to celebrate this season with you by marching in the July 4th parade with the championship trophy. So cheers. All right, thank you. Thank you. Stay tuned.

Billy BatesThank you. Squish it.

J.C. MartinezstaffTina, we can move to the middle to left for that. All right, here we go. And one, two, three, both smiles. Okay.

Stacey Hardy-ChandlerCherish

Catherine Readit. Thank you all. Cherish it. Hang it on the board. That's right in here. All right. At this time, we will address actions out of the closed meeting. Is there a motion to approve the new city manager?

Stacey Hardy-ChandlerCouncil Member Hardy-Chandler? I move to appoint Daniel C. Alexander as City Manager of the City of Fairfax, effective as of January 5, 2026, on the terms and conditions discussed in closed meeting. I further move that the City Attorney be authorized to finalize an employment agreement with Mr. Alexander incorporating the agreed upon terms and conditions, and that the Mayor be, and hereby is, authorized to execute the final employment agreement on behalf of the City.

Catherine ReadIs there a second? Second.

Stacey Hardy-Chandlerhas

Catherine Readmade and seconded a roll call vote.

Melissa ShinaberryclerkCouncil Member Amos. Aye. Council Member Hall. Aye. Council Member Hardy-Chandler. Aye. Council Member Peterson. Aye. Council Member Bates. Aye. Council Member McQuellen. Aye. Motion passed unanimously.

Catherine ReadI would now like to invite our new city manager, Mr. Daniel Alexander, to the microphone to say a few words of greeting to his

Daniel Alexandernew city. Thank you very much, Mayor and Council. Humbly thankful for this opportunity. Look forward to advancing your vision as a council. and your agenda for the city of fairfax to our community i commit to being engaged and accessible listening and learning as we go and to our workforce i've already seen how dedicated and professional staff we have here so i look forward to supporting them in the work that they do every day thank you again for this great opportunity to serve look forward to working with all of you thank you very much

Catherine Readthank you so much wait right there because we are going to get a photo council members. We're a city that loves photographs.

Billy BatesAll right. Right here. Right here.

Daniel AlexanderAll right.

J.C. MartinezstaffAll right. If I could have my left side. And then the right side. And big smiles. Here we go. One, two, three.

Daniel AlexanderI'm sure we'll see you before January. Absolutely. That's right. Thank you.

Catherine ReadAll right. We will move on to the adoption of the agenda. Is there a motion to approve the agenda, Council Member Hart-Chandler? I move to adopt the agenda as presented. Is there a second? Second. The motion has been made and seconded. A roll call vote.

Melissa ShinaberryclerkCouncilmember Amos?

Catherine ReadAye.

Melissa ShinaberryclerkCouncilmember Hall? Aye. Councilmember Hardy-Chandler? Aye. Councilmember Peterson? Aye. Councilmember Bates?

Billy BatesAye.

Melissa ShinaberryclerkCouncilmember McQuillan? Aye. Motion passed unanimously. We will now go on to initial general public comment. I have four speakers who signed up by 5 o'clock p.m. today, and I will call the first one up, which will be Kelly O'Brien.

Kelly O'Brienpublic commentKelly O'Brien, 10213, Sagare Avenue. Good evening, Mayor Reed and Council and City staff. I am speaking tonight as a resident and parent and someone deeply invested in the long-term well-being of our community. I want to express my strong support for moving forward with the Willard-Sherwood Health and Community Center. This project is not simply a building. It's an investment in our people, our families, our youth, our seniors, and our most vulnerable neighbors. This project represents thoughtful community-centered planning, a place where health, wellness, education, and a gathering space all intersect. It's a place where children can access after-school support, seniors can stay active, and families can connect with services that they need

close to home. Projects like this don't just improve quality of life. They strengthen the social fabric that makes Fairfax City special. These are forward-looking investments that support well-being and the work to date, the studies, the site analysis, the partnership with Fairfax County is grounded, responsible, and responsive to the needs that residents have voiced for years. I urge you to keep this project moving. I also want to share my concerns about discussions about allocating up to $400,000 to study separating our schools from Fairfax County public schools. I absolutely understand the desire for local control and the frustrations our community is costs. But spending upwards of $400,000 on a study right now feels premature and honestly

not responsible. This isn't just a take a look study. This is opening the door to something enormous without a clear sense of whether it's legally possible, financially realistic, or even likely to improve anything for the kids currently in our schools. We haven't used all the tools that we have in our current partnership, and we haven't fully explored what accountability and advocacy can look like before jumping to a study that could lead nowhere and take resources away from things we know will help our community now. With capital costs rising, real infrastructure needs, and residents already feeling the pressure of taxes and inflation, we have to be smart about where we put our dollars. The Willard-Sherwood

project is a clear, immediate investment in health, safety, and community. School separation study is not. This is about priorities, and for me, the priority should be projects that directly benefit residents and families and not speculative studies with uncertain outcomes. I respectfully ask Council to keep moving forward with the Wheeler-Sherwood Health Center and hold off on the school separation study until we've exhausted all of our options and have a clearer understanding of what problem we're actually trying to solve.

Fogarty Atkisonpublic commentThank you.

Melissa ShinaberryclerkOur next speaker is Michael DeMarco.

Michael DeMarcopublic commentGood evening, Mayor Reed, Council, and staff. My name is Michael DeMarco, 10212 Scout Drive, Fairfax. I'd like to share a brief, realistic picture of what a typical day at the new Willard Sherwood Center could look like. In the morning, a young mother arrives with her baby for routine immunization and a nutrition consultation. She used to visit the old Joseph Willard Health Center, a 75-year-old outdated building with aging equipment. At the new center, she meets with a nurse, gets updated guidance on her child's nutrition, and leaves relieved that her family has access to modern public health so close to home. Another mother drops off her son at the little school, the preschool based at Sherwood.

The center now provides a dedicated and secure playground, meaning more outdoor time and a safer environment for the children who already rely on the program. Later that morning, a small group of the city's 1,500 active adult seniors arrives for their usual programs, the same people who have been gathering for years at the aging and unhealthy Green Acres building. Some come for exercise classes, others for activities. and many simply to see familiar faces. What's different now is the space, accessible rooms, safe floors, brighter lighting, and updated bathrooms that finally now include a family restroom facility that would allow caregivers to assist members. And with a gym on site, the ever-loved indoor pickleball can move there,

freeing up Sherwood for more appropriate activities. programs are part of a larger campus, it's easier now for older adults to stay after class and attend a health talk, a caregiving session, or a city services workshop, all without leaving the building. As the day winds down, Sherwood comes alive as a non-profit hosts an evening Medicare seminar, a teen robotics club meets in the multipurpose room, and the City of Fairfax Band performs a community concert in the main hall. None of this is flashy or dramatic. It's simply the city's everyday life made easier, healthier, and more connected by having the right facility in the right place. Nothing in this picture is imaginary. These are the people who already rely on these

spaces. All this project does is give them a modern, accessible, and efficient place to continue what they already do with dignity, with safety, and with better support. This is the real impact of the Willard-Sherwood Center. Not extravagance, just an investment in the community for years to come that makes everyday life better for thousands of our neighbors. Thank you.

Melissa ShinaberryclerkOur next speaker is Doug Cox.

Doug Coxpublic commentOh, good evening. Doug Cox, Perry Drive, Fairfax, Virginia. On the clock. Yeah, I already know people were talking to Willard Sherwood, but I'll just say next time you guys want to do a $55, $56 million project, maybe bring it to the voters for referendum or something like that because you've got two in the pipeline with the fire station and Willard Sherwood. That said, long ago I was looking at bicycling in the city, what the official policy is. And, man, as I start going down that rabbit hole, absolutely bewildered by the number of plans that we have in this city most of these weren't around 15 years ago which is probably why my taxes were a lot lower 15 years ago not sure why we have these

but let's run through some comprehensive plan that's been around forever citywide safety action plan pedestrian master plan old town fairfax circulation study bicycle transportation plan Multimodal Transportation Plan, Old Town Fairfax Small Area Plan, Northfax, Camp Washington, Fairfax Circle Small Area Plans, Parks and Recreation Master Plan, a couple parks, Van Dyke, Westmoreland, Pat Rodeo Master Plans, Q Transit Development Plan, Green Building Policy, Climate Energy Action Plan. electric vehicle readiness plan there's another 110k we won't give back urban forest master plan probably ignore all the trees we've been cutting down lately um comprehensive improvement plan solid waste management plan it just goes on and on and on

and if you were to look to see what's the bicycle plan you tell me where i'm looking multimodal small area plans bicycle plan it's all over the place comprehensive plan how about Streamlining. Start consolidating these things because every plan comes with someone who's the subject matter expert, someone who's updating it, someone who's tracking it, someone who's probably putting in a budget proposal so they can get money for whatever the heck's in these plans. Let's start reducing. Bring the taxes down. If you want to be friendly to small business, get rid of the meals tax, for gosh sake. That was supposed to be temporary, and you expended it to, what, 2040 or something like that? stop with the lip service and actually do something about it.

And the kick in the tail about these plans, as we just saw this past month, comprehensive plan. A few of you sitting up there were on board calling it a lost opportunity for what was being proposed down at the Safeway Shopping Center. 315 units. Look, it wasn't on 8.75 acres of land. That's the whole thing. It was in a little corner of it. The building area, 3.85. acres of land 315 units that's almost 82 units per acre and three of you are like man i can't believe we missed that opportunity when it wasn't supposed to be won 24 units per acre per the comprehensive plan either follow the plans or get rid of them

Melissa Shinaberryclerkour next speaker is judy frazier

Judy Frazierpublic commentHi. Good evening, council and mayor. I'm not speaking about the George Snyder Trail tonight. I have a request of you that as you go into budget season and making the remaining financial decisions of your terms is that you think about what we need to have versus what is that you put that lens on and be very very critical about your decisions in that regard I have a story of a three-part story sort of a budget Christmas story I guess past present future kind of quotidian but but maybe it will make sense to you the brick sidewalks we have in this city sidewalks weren't always brick they used to be concrete somebody had a nice idea about into brick it would be prettier 30 or so years ago that was all the rage we went whole hog we

bricked up the whole old town and we have been paying for that brick ever since if you are aware we are constantly replacing repairing that brick sidewalk that was a very um nice decision at the time won't it be pretty but we have been paying for those bricks over and over again not to say the concrete wouldn't need repairs but you know what i mean when you drive through and see a whole block of north street torn up this morning present day landscaping out front city hall you've heard it spoken about before that was supposed to be a very small landscape refresh and some repair to railing some spalling concrete it turned into a massive more than one half million dollar project nice to have but do we need it no it's a very expensive project and we our staff is ill-equipped

to take care of a thousand plus native plants and it's not to say that they're they it's not on staff I don't mean to say that we need to equip them to take care of this project They are good people work hard every day But they can't just be tossed these new projects and expect there's no instruction book on taking care of native plants that they have in their hands They need the training. They need the time They need the support to make that project work Future project George Snyder Trail. I'm talking about it started as a $250,000 natural trail, a woodland trail, $250,000 scoped out when it was first created. It is now $25 million of infrastructure. That is 100 times what the city initially committed to

paying for that project. That's like if you get 100,000 people on there, that's still $250 per person. It's ridiculous. So please consider need to have versus nice to have. Thank you.

Savannah NewburnstaffThat was our last speaker.

Catherine ReadOkie dokie. We'll go and move on to the consent agenda. Is there a motion to approve the consent agenda? Councilmember Hardy-Chandler?

Stacey Hardy-ChandlerI move adoption of a consent agenda for agenda item number 6A, consideration of the October 23rd, 2025 special meeting minutes. Agenda items number 6B, consideration of the October 28th, 2025 special meeting minutes. Agenda Item 6C, consideration of the October 28, 2025 regular meeting minutes. Agenda Item 6D, consideration of the November 4, 2025 special meeting minutes. Agenda Item 6E, consideration of updates to the FY 2027 financial policies and city budget guidelines. Agenda Item 6F, consideration of a resolution to approve the city's submission to the Northern Virginia Transportation Authority for $1 million in FY27-32 Regional Surface Transportation Program, RSTP funding. agenda item number 6g consideration of a reappropriation resolution related to

school CIP projects for Providence Elementary School ES vestibule and electrical program build out at Fairfax High School in addition approval for a 0.5 FTE addition to the school's superintendent position I move to approve the consent agenda items number 6a through g and the motion item as printed.

Catherine ReadIs there a second?

Thomas PetersonThere's a second. However, I am going to ask for one item to be pulled out.

Catherine ReadAll right. And which item? E. E. 6E. The motion's been made by Council Member Hardy-Chandler and seconded by Council Member Peterson. Item 6E will be removed for discussion. A roll call vote on the rest of the, on the agenda minus agenda item 6E.

Melissa ShinaberryclerkCouncil Member McQuillan? Aye. Council Member Bates? Aye. Council Member Peterson? Aye. Council Member Hardy-Chandler? Aye. Council Member Hall? Aye. Council Member Amos? Aye. Motion passed unanimously. So we'll go to 6E, which is a consideration of updates to the FY 2027 financial policies and council budget guidelines. I'm going to recognize J.C. Martinez, the chief financial officer for the staff report.

J.C. MartinezstaffGood afternoon, Mayor, Council. reviewed and discussed at the October 28th City Council work session. The City Council initially enacted a comprehensive set of financial policies in April of 2000 to establish a policy framework for fiscal decision-making and strengthening the city's financial management. These policies are reviewed annually as part of the upcoming fiscal year's budget development process. On the staff report, we have proposed changes that are highlighted. Deletions are shown with strikethroughs. In addition, are double underlined. Additionally, staff were requesting direction with the FY27 budget through a series of suggested budget guidelines. There was also more discussion about this and other items during our budget retreat.

Was it last Saturday or maybe two Saturdays ago? Happy to answer any questions.

Thomas PetersonCouncil Member Peterson. I'm a little hoarse. Forgive me. just one question that came from the budget retreat, which has to do with the debt ceiling, which I believe is currently nine, and the proposal is to expand that to 14. Is that correct?

J.C. MartinezstaffThat is correct. Our current annual debt service to expenditures is currently limited at 9%. We were requesting an increase up to 14% of those annual expenditures.

Thomas PetersonThe reason I ask is recall from the presentation, the now possibility of a one-cent sales tax to support school construction reduces the amount of debt that the city potentially would be facing and need to create a ceiling for. And as I don't have the graph in front of me, but as I recollect, it looked like a 14% ceiling was not necessary under the scenario that a one-cent sales tax would be passed for schools I may have been misreading that but I'd be interested in getting some clarification on that

J.C. Martinezstaffsure so you're referring to a graph that was displayed at the budget retreat as a potential scenario to your point making the assumption that the 1% sales tax specifically associated for school site CIP passes there may not be a need to raise it all the way up to 14th I think when I showed that graph I showed our current debt expenditures I think I called it the CIP sandwich and that graph was actually just the two buns not to the meat in the middle of the schools and that would show our current associated debt that we currently have in all proposed not appropriated or approved by council yet but I'll propose CIP for the next five years and we would be at or slightly below that 14% threshold

Thomas Petersonclarify that would be without the school construction

J.C. Martinezstaffcorrect associated to the two elementary schools and the high school roof again that is an assumption that has not been realized but yes so if that

Thomas Petersonis financed through the sales tax we still would need the ceiling to accommodate the remaining CIP

J.C. Martinezstaffprojects potentially that would be the upper limit and then additionally as I noted at the budget retreat and I think at other work sessions and council meetings currently our 9% debt amount is extremely conservative I think I shared with council previously anything below 15% is still considered conservative our financial consultants Davenport have discussions with the rating agencies, S&P and Moody's, they have also noted that anything below 15% is a very conservative percentage for a triple, a double, triple rated, I'm sorry, a double, yeah, triple A rated locality as we are.

Thomas PetersonMy concern would be that if I understand it correctly, the capital stack, the capital project stack includes a number of decisions that have yet to be made in terms of whether or not, the council would move forward with them. And it is one thing to create the fiscal space through a debt ceiling to enable that, but it's another thing to determine that it's either affordable or preferable in terms of public policy and budget to do that. And we haven't really gone through that process yet, and it's a very big capital stack, as I recall. So my question would be whether this is premature, whether we need to put the ceiling up now, or whether we should wait and get a little further down the pike before we determine

how much of a debt ceiling increase we need. I would just be interested in some background on that.

J.C. MartinezstaffSure. So it is ultimately up to council to make that decision. As I stated in the staff report, we review this on an annual basis. So we bring this to council about this time as per those guidelines when we make this suggestion or revision proposal. this would be the first time in probably 20 10 to 15 years that that rate has increased as I also noted previously when the city became triple-a rated by both Moody's and S&P in 2009 and 2010 respectively we were in excess of our current rate of 9% as well and we still were able to get to those most coveted ratings by those by Moody's and S&P so this is a just proactive step that we would be wanting to take we have had these conversations with the rating

agencies about a year ago this time and they said this was a policy again they also reemphasize the conservative amount that we're currently at at 9% and going up to potentially 15 which we're not is still considered very conservative for double, triple A rated locality.

Speaker 12I

Thomas Petersonguess I would just say that at least from my standpoint, and I'd certainly be open to hearing what other members of the council say, an increase in the debt ceiling should not be read as an approval of or an intention to approve the capital improvement projects that would be enabled by that ceiling. That's a separate matter entirely.

J.C. MartinezstaffI would say absolutely. And the analogy I would give you is credit cards issue a maximum. I would hope that people don't always max out their credit cards. That would not be my intent with city funds, as I'm sure it's not the intent of council, either to maximize our credit limit or that potential. Again, it is just, in my mind, prudent practice for us to go ahead and review and posture in the correct method. do have to pull debt and the one percent sales tax option does not come through then we are in the position to act accordingly

Catherine Readcouncil member bates i

Billy Batesthink another analogy would be when we set the maximum tax rate will be earlier next year that's likewise not a commitment to set that as our of actual real estate property tax rate but rather an upper limit

Catherine Readother comments councilmember hall

Stacy Hallthank you i shared a lot of the concerns that you had asked at the previous meeting so thank you for answering them then and also for reminding us now i do share concerns over increasing it i do recognize that just because you say you can go up to 14 doesn't mean you're going to but I do think that it's an example of a trend in a certain direction and much like the the maximum tax rate I think people look at that and they freak out and so I think when information is dispersed regarding decisions that might be made tonight the the narrative is very important as to why the how the expectation and it's not just a blank check so I understand that I think all too but my hope is that people at home understand that as well and I know we

did have conversations about whether or not this was conservative because it does feel like a big jump from 9 to 14 but as you indicated mr. Martinez anything under 15 is considered very conservative and then on the flip side of it I don't have it right in front of me but the the other number that we raised also was very much within low conservative ranges if I recall that there's another percentage correct

J.C. Martinezstaffso you're discussing or mentioning the outstanding debt to assess evaluation that recommendation according to what we're suggesting is increasing that from three to four percent which is still a conservative number according to the rating agencies as well

Stacy Hallokay thank you and I think if if if I'm able to direct or make a request is that when we send out the notes from this meeting if we can include that little chart that you had provided before that talked about what was conservative and where we were within with regard to giving information so that it's a little bit more visually informative yeah

Melissa Shinaberryclerkwe can add an attachment to this agenda item

Catherine Readthank you very much any other council member mcquillan

Rachel McQuilleni agree with all of that and i think it's really important that we do include that information as we outreach to the community because i know that i i share with you that i had a lot of confused about the advertising tax rate versus the adopted. So we want to make sure that we're very clear and concise regarding what we're doing and why we're doing it. So thank you very much for going over that with us. Appreciate that.

Catherine ReadAny other discussion? Okay. Seeing none. Councilmember Hardy-Chantler, do

Stacey Hardy-Chandlerwe

Catherine Readhave

Stacey Hardy-Chandlera motion? I move to adopt the proposed edits to the financial policy and the suggested budget guidelines to be used in the preparation of the fiscal year 2027 budget.

Catherine ReadIs there a second? Second. Okay. There has been a motion and a second. Can we have a roll call vote?

Melissa ShinaberryclerkCouncil Member McQuillan? Aye. Council Member Bates? Aye. Council Member Peterson?

Catherine ReadAye.

Melissa ShinaberryclerkCouncil Member Hardy-Chandler? Aye. Council Member Hall? Aye. Council Member Amos?

Doug Coxpublic commentAye.

Melissa ShinaberryclerkMotion passed unanimously. We'll go on to 7A, which is appointments to boards, commissions, and advisory committees. appointments to boards and commissions and advisory committees from the staff report I'll just give the briefing that the City Council conducted interviews on November 13th for the city's boards and Commission vacancies council held discussions during closed session regarding the appointments and reappointments to the boards and commissions that's my staff report

Catherine Readis Is there any discussion on this motion? Okay. Questions? No questions? Okay, then. Is there a motion, Councilmember Hardy-Chandler?

Stacey Hardy-ChandlerI move to appoint the following applicants. Board of Architecture, appoint James Feather as Planning Commission representative, extending through January 31st. Commission for the Arts reappoint Melissa Groh for a three-year term extending through December 10th. Environmental Sustainability Committee reappoint Rusty Russell for a three-year term extending through December 13th. Appoint M. Patrick Zook for a remainder of a three-year term extending through January 28th, 2028. Fairfax Alcohol Safety Action Program Local Policy Board appoint Diane Lim for a three-year term extending through November 18th, 2028. Fairfax County History Commission reappoint David Meyer for a three-year term extending through December 31st, 2028.

Fairfax Juvenile and Domestic Relations District Court Citizens Advisory Board reappoint Deborah DeFalco for a two-year term extending through January 14th, 2028. Grievance Board, pardon me? Oh, call it. Okay. Grievance panel board, Colon Ivory for the three-year term extending through November 18, 2028. History, Historic Fairfax City, Inc. reappoint William Page Johnson for three-year terms extending through December 31, 2030. Planning Commission reappoint Kristen Lockhart for a four-year term extending through December 21st, 2029.

Catherine ReadIs there a second? Second. Motion's been made by Council Member Hardy-Chandler and seconded by Council Member Peterson. Is there any discussion on this motion? Seeing none, a roll call vote.

Melissa ShinaberryclerkCouncil Member McQuillan? Aye. Council Member Bates? Aye. Council Member Peterson? Aye. Council Member Hardy-Chandler? Aye. Council Member Hall? Aye. Council Member Amos? Aye. Motion passed unanimously. We will now go to public hearings. tonight. Our first one is a public hearing and council action on a request from Zandra slash Great Eats Hospitality LLC applicant by Old Town Fairfax Ventures Joshua Alexander agent for consideration of a special use permit SUP pursuant to city code section 110-6.7 to allow a dancing and entertainment area in an existing restaurant on the premises identified as 3950 University Drive Suite 210 and more particularly described as TaxMap 57-2-43-B2-202. I'm going to recognize Savannah Newburn from the Berkeley Group, she's a senior planner,

to provide the staff presentation.

Savannah NewburnstaffGood evening, Council. I'm Savannah Newburn, and I'll be presenting a special use permit this evening. This application is for an entertainment area within an existing restaurant, McKenzie's Tunes and Tonics. The proposed entertainment area is approximately 80 square feet. Customers will enjoy live music while seated and dining, and that it would typically occur on these nights, Wednesdays, Fridays, and Saturdays from 8 to 10 p.m. The subject property is in a commercial condo building that was constructed in 2007 at 3950 Fairfax Boulevard. And the property is zoned commercial retail. This is an overview of the floor plan. The arrow points to the proposed entertainment area within the existing restaurant.

And the total floor area of the unit is 2,500 square feet. In the future land use plan, the site is designated as an activity center. this designation encourages mixed-use development of which the commercial condo building is full of and this use is not directly addressed but certainly included within this place type in terms of consistency with the zoning ordinance staff recommends approval we find it consistent with the comprehensive plan compliant with all applicable requirements of the zoning ordinance not Detriment to the health or safety and having no negative impact on public welfare, property or improvements in the neighborhood. So these are conditions, standard conditions that the staff recommends.

Consistency with the application, non-transferable, special use permit, and a requirement to obtain any and all necessary local, state, and federal permits as required. That concludes my presentation. The applicant is here as well.

Catherine ReadI will open the public hearing. Ms. Shinaberry, has this public hearing been properly

Stacey Hardy-Chandleradvertised? Yes, it has.

Catherine ReadOkay. Does the applicant

Stacey Hardy-Chandlerhave a presentation they would like to share?

Catherine ReadOkay. I will ask the clerk to call speakers forward.

Melissa ShinaberryclerkOkay. I had one person sign up prior to the meeting, and I will call that speaker up, which is Kelly O'Brien.

Kelly O'Brienpublic commentGood evening again. Kelly O'Brien, 10213, Sager Avenue. I'm here tonight to speak in strong support of the Special Use Permit for McKenzie's. McKenzie's has already shown that it's not just another business in Fairfax. It's part of our community fabric. Josh is engaged with our neighbors. He works closely with city staff. Demonstrates a real commitment to the city and how to do things the right way. They've been transparent, responsive, made adjustments. This is exactly the kind of applicant and business that we want to support here in the city. I want to acknowledge also the reality of getting to this point for a lot of our small businesses, and I would like and encourage staff to look at ways to make this more of

a regulatory thing and not go through this process and spend the dollars and come to meetings like this, spending time for council as well. Updating our zoning code would not only help remove barriers for exactly this kind of community but also save time for council and staff. So I urge you to approve McKenzie's special use permit because they've earned it, because they're an asset to the community, but also hope this application serves as a reminder that we can make our code more efficient, more predictable, and more welcoming to future applicants like this.

Brian LubkermanstaffThank you. MS.

Melissa ShinaberryclerkIs there anybody else in the room that would like to speak on this agenda item? MS. You can come forward. Yes. MS. Yes. Ma'am, if you want to stand on the side, you can do that if you want to. Okay.

Chef Nickpublic commentI don't have notes. My name is Chef Nick. I've run a nonprofit called the Colonel's Kitchen, and we use culinary arts and food business to assist our wounded warriors, disabled veterans, and disabled first responders. Why is that important? Josh has embraced our veteran and first responder community. He's opened up his restaurant, held a few fundraisers for our organization. I highly recommend approval of this as it will also provide an opportunity for our veterans and first responders, especially those that were disabled or injured, to now experience something other than culinary arts. Now they could go into music and art, which is both therapeutic for our veterans, especially when they're getting over their injuries.

So I encourage you all, looking at you all in the eyes, to endorse this, because I think it'll be best for the veterans and first responders, but more importantly, for the community that serves them. Thank you for your time.

Melissa ShinaberryclerkAll right. Next speaker can come forward.

Fogarty Atkisonpublic commentGood evening, Mayor, Council, and staff. Fogarty Atkison 10632 Springman Drive. I'm a long time over 30 year resident of Fairfax. I also am a small business owner here in Fairfax. We've I'm a partner at Kearney Freeman Fogarty and Joshi law firm. We occupy the fifth floor of 4085 Chainbridge Road. Who knows what's going to happen there within the next couple of years but we're we're there for the duration at least. I am here to support Josh Alexander and Zandra's application for a special use permit to add live music and a dance floor to his establishment, McKenzie's Tunes and Tonics. And I can tell you that I think it would be a great addition to this community, having lost a wonderful place to go and listen to live music and dance recently.

I think that McKenzie's is an ideal spot to reactivate that part of our community, to add a space for our neighbors and friends to gather and enjoy our time together. And so I would also support Josh has always been a contributing member of the city of Fairfax for over 25 years and has shown his commitment to not only providing a fun venue, but also contributing to all aspects of city living here. I've been involved in many, many projects. support Josh and McKenzie's as a small business here as I think we should do for many others. I mean, who doesn't like to dance, right? I mean, it's a great spot. It's not going to bother any residents. There's plenty of parking. And so I think it would be a great addition to our space

downtown here. So please approve that for the sake of all of our fun loving citizens. And also thank you for the new playground at Pat Rodeo Park. It's a great space now. Thank you.

Melissa ShinaberryclerkIs there anybody else in the room that would like to speak on this agenda item?

Jenna Sandspublic commentGood evening. I'll keep it very brief, but my name is Jenna Sands. I'm a Fairfax City resident at 399 Rust Hill Place. I'm also a former city business owner. I'm also a current Fairfax County employee, and I spend 24 hours in the city of Fairfax every single day. I would tell you that Mr. Alexander's business is a vibrant part of our community. We are lucky to have it. I fully endorse and support his application, and I hope you do too. It is wonderful to see our business owners looking to grow and bring more to the city when they have the capacity and the interest. I hope that the board makes this process easier for other city business owners and makes this process seamless for Josh. Thanks so much.

Melissa ShinaberryclerkIs there anybody else in the room that would like to speak?

Catherine ReadI will close the public hearing. Counsel, are there any questions of staff or the applicant? Council Member Peterson. Just

Thomas Petersonmaybe a historical question, and that is, how does the level and the opportunity of dance and entertainment today compare historically to what it has been in Old Town or in the city in general?

Speaker 14I would say that particularly from the 70s and 80s, there were a number of establishments in Old Town, and that spread through the city. A lot of the motels had lobbies and restaurant bar areas that had this, and there were a number of restaurants along Fairfax Boulevard that also had dancing and entertainment. Off the top of my head right now, I can only think of three. It's PJs, Skadoos, Alcha Bean, and Fire Station, three that have approvals. Yes.

Thomas PetersonAnd is there any reason we wouldn't want to see and to encourage the growth in these kinds of establishments?

Speaker 14I would say, you know, having went through a number of these reviews myself over the last two decades, it's rare that they're an issue. Where they are, it's usually related to fire occupancy of very large establishments and making sure they're following their operational plans. There have been issues in the past with very large very busy establishments that are acting more like theaters versus restaurants that just have this Ancillary activity there are no issues from a fire policing zoning standpoint with this type of application

Catherine ReadAny other questions councilmember Hall

Stacy HallThank you not specifically about this special abuse permit but if we could get a briefing at some point on what the process is why the process is lengthy and what could be done to help alleviate it i do understand this has taken a very long time i would never claim to know any of the specifics or logistics on it but i think information for us would be really helpful of course thank you any

Catherine Readother comments or questions here of councilmember hardy chandler

Stacey Hardy-Chandlernot a question but a quick comment i heard all of comments about not only being a strong business but being a partner in the community I've witnessed that personally I've gone to city events and it's been sponsored or supported or attended or some kind of engagement by McKinsey's and so in addition to the words the actions are there I have no doubt that this will request will not only contribute to your business but with a mind to the rippling effect to other business throughout the area so I appreciate not only this application but the intent behind it so thank you

Catherine Readcouncilmember McCullough I

Rachel McQuillenalso want to look into how we can make this process much more efficient moving forward live music is an economic driver it brings people into our city. It creates a lively and vibrant atmosphere. It's a place people want to visit. And so I love these kind of special exceptions and requests. And I am grateful to fully support this. Thank you.

Catherine ReadOkay. So before I ask for a motion, I will just say thanks to everyone who came out to support Mr. Alexander and McKenzie's tunes and tonics. have a lot of people who show up when there's something to be opposed to and it's a testament to the community that he has created that people have come out to be here today to say they want us to support it I mean that's the kind of community that I see every day and I just want to say I value it and I believe that mr. mr. Alexander values it also and

Stacey Hardy-Chandlerwith that I will ask if there is a motion council member Herbie Chandler I move that the city council approve the EATS HOSPITALITY LLC FOR A SPECIAL USE PERMIT TO ALLOW A LIVE ENTERTAINMENT AREA IN AN EXISTING RESTAURANT PURSUANT TO CITY CODE SECTION 6.7 ON THE PREMISES KNOWN AS 3950 UNIVERSITY DRIVE SUITE 210 AND MORE PARTICULARLY DESCRIBED AS TAX MAP PARCEL 57-2-43-B2-202 WITH THE following conditions one the proposed you shall be consistent with the application and statement of justification received with the application to the special use permit shall be non transferable three the applicant shall obtain all necessary local state and or federal permits prior to any construction on site is

Catherine Readthere a second second the motion has been made by councilmember Hardy Chandler and seconded by councilmember Peterson is Is there any discussion on the motion? Seeing none, a roll call vote.

Melissa ShinaberryclerkCouncil Member Amos? Aye. Council Member Hall? Aye. Council Member Hardee-Chandler? Aye. Council Member Peterson? Aye. Council Member Bates? Aye. Council Member McQuillan? Aye. Motion passed unanimously. We will go on to the second public hearing, which is a public hearing and council action on an ordinance authorizing and approving a deed of easement between the City of Fairfax and Fairfax County Water Authority for the installation, construction, operation, maintenance, and repair of one or more water mains and appurtenance, I hope I said that right, there too, on certain real property owned by the city and having tax map number 48-4-01-000-C and 48-4-01-003. I'm going to recognize Brian Logeman, the city attorney,

Melissa Shinaberryclerkto provide the staff report.

Brian LubkermanstaffGood evening again, Mayor and Council. brief staff report the staff report included in the agenda item contains most of the detail that's necessary have the Public Works director here this evening has a map which may be a little hard to read up on the screen but you do have it in your packets what this is is a request by Fairfax County Fairfax water for a deed of easement to provide for to allow for a project in the future to construct a new transmission main connecting existing water mains in Fairfax Circle up to the Lyndhurst tank in the city. This as noted in staff report, this is in Fairfax Water CIP. The funding may be several years away, but in conjunction with other improvements, this

would improve service to and accommodate anticipated demand growth within the central and eastern area of Fairfax Water's what they call Fairfax Water's second high pressure zone, which includes much of the city. And as noted, it's anticipated to be constructed during the end of Fairfax Water's current 10-year CIP. Discussion of granting this deed of easement arose in connection with the city's request for a separate easement associated with the Pickett Trail project, which we have discussed previously. Fairfax Water had requested that the city grant this easement now as consideration for approving and executing the city's easement. And as we noted when discussion was had about the trail project, there has been significant

coordination and collaboration between city staff and Fairfax Water staff to ensure that there's no conflict with the city's pedestrian bridge and the city's proposed conservation easement. But again, to reiterate the underlying purpose of this easement and Fairfax Waters project would be to improve redundancy as well as water pressure going forward. Mr. Summers may have additional words, but I think generally staff recommends this as a project that would certainly serve the public interest. And we're happy to answer any questions after Mr. Summers has any comments.

Speaker 26All I would like to add is the easement the city is trying to acquire for the trail is very similar to what Fairfax Water is requesting for their water line. So that's why it was so important for us to coordinate where our easement was in conjunction to where their easement was. So they're both next to each other and they're both similar amount of area.

Catherine ReadOkay. well are there any questions of staff okay okay I will open the public hearing mission a berry has this public hearing been properly advertised

Melissa Shinaberryclerkit has no one signed up prior to the meeting to speak is there anybody in the room that would like to speak on this agenda item

Catherine Readdon't everybody rush okay well seeing none I will close the public hearing is there a motion councilmember Hardy Chandler I

Stacey Hardy-ChandlerI move that the City Council enact the ordinance as presented authorizing and approving a deed of easement with Fairfax County Water Authority for transmission of water main installation, construction, operation, maintenance, and repair on certain real property owned by the city and having city map numbers 48-4-01-000-C and 48-4-01-003.

Catherine ReadIs there a second? Second. A motion has been made by Council Member Hardy-Chandler and seconded by Council Member Peterson. Is there any discussion on the motion? Seeing none, a roll call vote.

Melissa ShinaberryclerkCouncil Member McQuillan? Aye. Council Member Bates? Aye. Council Member Peterson? Aye. Council Member Hardy-Chandler? Aye. Council Member Hall? Aye. Council Member Amos? Aye. Motion passed unanimously. we'll go on to the last public hearing tonight which is a public hearing on the proposed city at fairfax 2026 legislative program there is no council action to this item i'm going to recognize melanie zip the acting city manager to provide the staff presentation thank

Melanie Zippstaffyou melissa good evening mayor and council um as she said as melissa said uh there is no council action tonight we're just looking for feedback from the public on any changes or additions that they would like added to our legislative program and then hopefully get some concurrence from Council on priority order of items for the one page that goes with our program okay so to start off you can go to the next slide we are halfway through our legislative cycle the beginning of our legislative cycle we're on November 18th our public hearing December 1st is when all draft legislation needs to be pre-filed I will get to it in a later slide but our charter amendments have gone down to the Department of Legislative Services to

be incorporated and prepared for action by the general assembly december 2nd is a proposed work session if needed i'll ask you once i get through all of these slides if if you feel necessary to have a work session on december 2nd we certainly can and then december 10th is when we will ask for council consideration of our 2026 program next slide these are our city of fairfax delegation again senator saddam salim is our 37th district senator and delegate david boliva is our 11th district house delegate next

Patty Innocentistaffslide

Melanie Zippstaffthese are our regional and state program partners vml Fairfax County is also one of our biggest partners we have a lot of contracts with Fairfax County so anytime we have alignment with our program and a contractor duties that Fairfax County does for us we mirror their legislative language obviously City Council and school board all of our boards and commissions and then our regional partners and we have in every department associations that our department heads or staff are members of and will share their programs with me to also incorporate so on to the new slides uh we are looking for council consensus tonight on a couple pieces of language the one percent sales tax originally this was just part of our priority one pager

and what i'm proposing is new language that says adopt legislation allowing any county or city to adopt to adopt an extra one percent local sales and use tax dedicated to public school capital projects with the provision that already issued bonds loans that were approved by referendum for a school project that's underway or finished the new one percent could be used to pay the debt service on those bonds and loans this was to make sure that we had the look back so that we could pay for debt that has already been issued and then in this language there was a section about this being done through a referendum in conversation with some council members it was thought that there may be an opportunity for that

referendum to go away so i've removed that from our language if you would like that added back in we certainly can do that that

Melissa Shinaberryclerkis

Melanie Zippstaffthat is that one the next one is the funding for invasive species removal this is actually added under a new section called tree and forest conservation and if you go to the middle of this little short paragraph it says expand program funding allowances for tree establishment care and invasive vegetation management there's a virginia trees for clean water funding grant program and that's what we're asking them to expand that program to include invasive removal that came from the northern virginia waste management board that language did

Patty Innocentistaffnext slide

Melanie Zippstaffthere was conversation about data centers the previous languages there was very minimal the two points that were brought up in the work session were dealing with high energy use facilities so I pulled language from the 2025 General Assembly bill for the bill number was SB 1449 and this is language directly out of that adopt data centers high energy use facilities citing legislation requiring a site assessment that would examine impacts on things like water resources agriculture land parks registered historic sites forest land on the site or immediately adjacent also requiring the utility that plans to serve the facility to provide a report to provide a reporting on any new generation to serve the facility newer existing substations used to support the facility and the level of

transmission voltage required for the facility and then the other request was information on integrated resource plans this came this language came from sb 1021 and it's adopt utility integrated resource plans irp reform legislation to amend the law governing electric utilities long-term integrated resource plans irps extending the planning horizon for irps from 15 years to 20 years increase the emphasis on demand response storage competitive procurement and provide a mechanism for more stakeholder input and then finally there was a question about medical cannabis use and taxation of that currently the state does not collect an excise tax on medical cannabis use there is the 5.3% sales tax that is collected on all uses however it's not an excise tax because there

there is the consideration that this is for prescription use i have added language under local authority which is at the beginning of the plan stating that local taxing authority of retail sales of cannabis and cannabis related products in the minimum amount of 2.5 percent and this came from last year's house bill 2485 so um then the next two slides are related to what staff would recommend being your priority items for your one pager i'm not going to read through all of these just a reminder that the charter were sent in so staff would recommend that that be priority number one on your one-pager these are the next following our priorities that we had last year still very valid priorities k-12 funding the 1% sales tax for schools

affordable housing next slide anti-rent gouging stormwater local assistance funding state aid for local HB 599 and unfunded mandates and I know I went really fast but what we staff are looking for our council's list of priorities in priority order if you would like to put them in priority order or if you want them alphabetical yeah and next slide is just our calendar again for the legislative program which starts january 14th so if we want to go back to the previous yep that is all i have i'm here to answer any questions and take any priority items

Catherine Readokay is there are the questions council member hall

Stacy Hallthank you for this um the specifically on slide five i started to type up a whole thing and then i just figured we would discuss it tonight so it was easier um is this wording that came directly from somewhere it just doesn't flow in some areas i don't know if it should be rewritten or if this is from something else specifically which

Melanie Zippstaffone

Stacy Halluh sorry the one under uh the 1 sales tax portion like you said adopt legislation allowing any county or city and then you added the word to adopt up to so i just wasn't sure if this was we needed to modify it or if this was it

Melanie Zippstaffwasn't copy and pasted it was typed out so I probably just missed okay the two

Stacy Hallokay I won't go into other suggestions for grammatical things that would be my suggestions but I think it's good enough again okay I think the intent is there and that was the important part I just want to make sure it wasn't from something specific I think that was really all of my questions we can come back to feather people questions when needs our priorities order. Thank you.

Catherine ReadOther comments? Councilmember Amos?

Anthony AmosMy only comment on priority order is probably going to be the 1% sales tax and the charter amendments. I think the rest could probably be pretty free-flowing, but I think those are probably the top two.

Catherine ReadCouncilmember McQuillan?

Rachel McQuillenI would say K-12 funding should be number one before 1% sales tax. That's the only correction I would make.

Catherine ReadCouncilmember Peterson?

Thomas PetersonJust a clarification, the items that are on Slides 5 and 6, are these open for addition based on Council Action Tonight to be added to 2025 priorities or do these have a different status? Because I don't see them on the priorities on Slide 9.

Melanie ZippstaffThey are not. I did not list them on the priorities. If you the priorities that I have listed are what we had last year that didn't go through. Council can wipe that out and start over with a new list. We can add to that list. We're we're getting close to going over our one page. But if you wanted to add these to your priority list, that's that's totally council prerogative.

Thomas PetersonI would be in favor. I'd certainly be interested in the thoughts of other council members, but for missing items and considering adding them, particularly the data center reform issue. My note on that would be first to thank you for adding it, and second, it's a year old basically and I think there may have been some fine tuning or there will be possibly in the next couple of weeks and would be very open to including the results of that fine tuning that's underway if we do decide to add this, but I certainly would be in favor

Melanie ZippstaffIt just just so you're clear it is in the program right now it just wouldn't it's just not on the one page priority. I just want to make sure that that was clear and you're asking to add it to the one page priority.

Thomas PetersonWell, if there's room. Okay,

Melanie Zippstaffthat's what I thought. I just want to be make sure that we were clear.

Catherine ReadAny other questions? Well, Councilmember Hardy Chandler.

Stacey Hardy-Chandlersince the whole one pager consists of priorities what's the practical benefit of putting them in priority order is there some emphasis that goes to the higher priority ones as a result is there if there isn't consensus around the exact order

Melanie Zippstaffif there it's really just the messaging so when I send it I will let them know that they're in priority order if if you choose not to put them in priority order that's totally fine I just won't message that out I will just say these are the council's priorities for FY 26 okay

Stacey Hardy-Chandlerthank you

Catherine Readcouncilmember hole thank

Stacy Hallyou I'm just wondering do we have to have the charter amendments on there as a recommended priority since those are already set separately or do we need to let them know that that is a priority since we already went through that process or is that wasting space on our priority list I can condense

Melanie Zippstaffthem probably because I do have a whole page of what they are it your priority pages is really what you want the legislators to understand as these are the things we need you to pass the the charter have gone down to legislative services, that doesn't mean that they have passed or that they are going to pass. So I wouldn't recommend taking them off the priority list, but I can see what I can do to condense it down.

Stacy HallI mean, you clearly know more about this than I do. I was just wondering. For space. Well, for space, but also the other ones, asking for K-12 funding specifically for city students. We're supporting that for Northern Virginia, for the Commonwealth, for FCPS, and same with many of these other things. So it seemed to me like because that was so specific to the city, it almost didn't need to be a priority, but I could see it needing to be the priority because it's the city as opposed to the other items. So it just seems like a weird system, I guess. I will defer to you since you've clearly longer than i have but i was just curious i

Melanie Zippstaffcertainly can um take it out of the priority list and put it in my narrative that you know the council has has already approved this for all of our charter amendments including with the charter amendments we have this list of priorities um it's really just messaging one way or another i can i can make it work if they're not I'll just add it to my email narrative

Catherine Readcouncilmember Hardy Chandler

Stacey Hardy-Chandlerbut to your point that is the one that is specific to us so I think I would be in favor of the initial recommendation that you made keep it on the list as first that's ours and the other ones are regional and those following after that makes more

Melanie Zippstaffsense to me

Catherine Readokay other comments councilmember Bates

Billy Batesyeah I would agree with councilmember Hardy Chandler on keeping them as is

Catherine Readthe only comment I would make about the 1% is that K through 12 funding is something we always advocate for I mean some there are some things that we always advocate for our schools are underfunded they have been since 2008 the one percent sales tax is something that we really need to to raise up and highlight i think because if we can't get all the rest of these things we really really need that to happen and the thing about one pagers and when you go down to the general assembly and when you go and you meet with legislators and you leave behind your one pager you know their legislative assistants are the ones who take those one pagers and try to calculate i mean they actually keep track of the people who come to the offices people who make

all the emails they receive and they they keep tallies around certain bills about how many people they heard from because this is how legislators understand what the mandate is so it seems to me if we're going to lock arms with the rest of the commonwealth of virginia on anything it needs to be the one percent sales tax and that throughout the legislative session we should be talking about it whether we're talking about it in person being down there or whether we're just talking about it here on the dais. This is something that is incredibly important to the future of our budget and our city to get this. So that's what I would say about whether you put them in priority order. What legislative, you know,

or the policy people in the offices of the senators and the delegates, they're keeping track of which bills have the most support. So I think we need to be real clear in our one pager like these are the things we really really want to have because they're central to the city would be my feedback

Melanie Zippstaffif I can make a recommendation the two items on the bottom the HB 599 and unfunded mandates are two things we've had on our legislative program for forever HB 599 has been in forever and And we have an entire two pages, I think, about unfunded mandates and local authority, that kind of stuff. If you were looking for some to take off the one-pager, I would probably recommend those two because they're very, well, HB 599 is not very general, but the unfunded mandate is very general.

Catherine ReadIt is, and I think that VML and some of the other partners, these are the things they hit very hard, and they've got their own lobbyists. there for the entire session you know hammering things that are on their agenda and unfunded mandates I think is one of the core items for VML so I mean we don't have to do all of I mean I think we we need to prioritize the things that are city specific like things that really are going to impact what is going to happen here that we are relying on the General Assembly to deliver something a policy money something for the city would be my feedback yet councilmember Hall

Stacy Hallthank you one one thing that we talked about last week that I don't see on here is and I think you mentioned it your email to us but the ability of localities to consider taxation on their own income taxation kind of like other counties do and when councilmember McCull and I went to the public public school leaders Network breakfast the other day I think I might butchering that but we went to a thing on friday um and that was one of the things that they really talked about was the fact that real estate taxes are simply how localities fund themselves and that there has got to be another better way to try to capture contributions from others rather than just property owners so i was disappointed to see that that wasn't on here and i was hoping you could

answer that

Melanie Zippstaffyeah i appreciate you bringing that up the other item that i don't have in here is the real estate the real estate one the income tax there are a list of bills and what i had what i was proposing was income tax reform i really need some guidance from counsel on what you want as far as income tax reform so that I can narrow it down to a certain bill. I did not realize there were so many bills last year on income tax. As it relates to the real estate tax, there were no bills that I could find on real estate tax. what was it progressive income income income progressive real estate tax reform something like that what I would say to council is we do have our tax relief program and our rent relief program

within both of those programs there is a disqualifying factor list and one of the first items on that that disqualifies somebody from getting tax relief or rent relief is if they are receiving any other kind of welfare benefits

Savannah Newburnstaffwhich kind of makes me question this

Melanie Zippstaffis why we wouldn't so at all that to say we have other avenues that we can get to if the council wish to make amendments to those programs okay

Stacy Hallif i can continue sure

Melanie Zippstaffthank you

Stacy Hallum i think that the ability of localities to work out other taxes on their own under the dylan law dylan rule whatever would be a priority i think it allows loudon to do what they want fairfax county to do what they want the city to do what we want again just like montgomery county does i think it's 3.2 where my parents live it's like 2.8 in maryland it's they they have these different options um and i think that that's really critical because again the only way we have as a city of generating revenue really is real estate taxes so i would think that's a And then I would say that I would favor the 1% sales tax above the K-12 funding for the reasons that the mayor had stated. I'm fine with the rest of the order.

I would like to see the cannabis part on there. And my one other comment that I just find interesting is it sounds like those in Richmond really keep track of who calls, who shows up, who writes letters, and they're ticking away on things. as a council member I tend to actually do the same thing here when we're hearing from people on supporting a trail or not supporting a trail or supporting guns or not supporting firearms and I think it's just interesting that that is encouraged in one area but it's not necessarily encouraged in another so it was just something I was talking about with council

Kelly O'Brienpublic commentmember Amos over here that I thought was interesting

Stacy Hallso thank you

Catherine Readcouncil member Amos

Anthony AmosI just wanted to also echo a council member Peterson brought up I know that one of the sticking points for me was the utility so I appreciate you going out and getting the information on the utility integrated resource plan we're gonna see a lot more difficult circumstances as these things grow energy energy requirements expand and we experience more brownouts but also due to and I won't go into utility monopolies because that's a whole other discussion but we're gonna see a lot of price gouging at the utility level and that's going going to detrimentally affect low income and renters. So I think that's going to become more of a priority moving forward, and I think it's good for us to get early on the ball on that.

Catherine ReadCouncil Member McQuillan?

Rachel McQuillenI'm okay with 1% sales tax being number one. My thought on K-12 funding was basically what Council Member Hall had mentioned. we attended the public school leaders network meeting by the George Mason University Schar School. And the JLARC study has shown that K through 12 funding has been really not there. It's just not there. And as we know, a lot of our, a large majority of our budget goes to funding our school tuition. And we recognize that it's continues to increase in costs. So that was my is that's going to be an operational cost moving forward forever, most likely. So I'm fine with putting it at number one, but I just understand that 1% sales tax will be for school construction only. K-12 is a funding element that we're going to have to deal with from here on out.

So that was my thought process. Thank you.

Catherine ReadCouncil Member Amos?

Anthony AmosAnd just to quickly add on that, I mean, what we see frequently to your point about the income tax, I know that multiple localities have tried to figure out different ways of taxation that doesn't solely rely on real estate Fairfax County's had the discussion multiple times same for K through 12 funding especially with the J Lark study but this is also an opportunity to To see what this new version of this legislature and the governor will accomplish as well So I'm going to be curious on what they have in the pipeline moving forward to

Catherine ReadOkay, any other discussion or comment? uh council member bates

Billy Batesum i think that in terms of the priorities list having the one percent sales tax as our kind of main taxation point for this session makes sense since that's kind of our first priority um as far as what to include in the program otherwise I think that we already do have something in there about just generally being allowing more flexibility on taxation. Is that right? Yeah.

Melanie ZippstaffYeah. To be able to diversify our revenues to reflect a 21st century economy. The whole thing says, Virginia's outdated and regressive tax structure, which requires those with lower income to pay a greater share of their income to taxes, must be reformed to ensure core services are funded with sustainable revenue streams and provide localities with the ability for revenue diversification that reflects a 21st century economy.

Billy BatesYeah, yeah. um yeah i mean my thought was initially if you wanted to add something additionally that's you know specific to a certain you know whether that's um allowing for the real estate tax rate itself to be income based or a separate income tax um but understanding of course that there i don't think there's anything proposed right now for this session to that effect but perhaps to kind of you know get the gears turning for the next session but but anyway the the one percent sales tax definitely I think is the top priority in terms of taxation for this session otherwise oh HB 599 that's the one about honoring the state's commitment to a local police funding

Melanie Zippstaffor lift the

Billy Batesmoratorium on

Melanie Zippstaffannexation

Billy Batesum i and i do understand that that's been in there for a long time and nothing has really happened on that um but i think that if there is a year when we want to keep that in there it would be this year because we have a governor coming in who is a former federal law enforcement officer herself um so i think that i'd want to keep that in there just you know given that I think this is really a meaningful year in terms of that and just kind of see what happens there and in general I think it's just you know nice you know definitely helpful to make sure that in Richmond I understand where our priorities lie in terms of making sure that our police, local police up here are well funded. And then in terms of the, you know, the other priorities, I'm kind of in agreement with

the others that I don't have a real strong preference below the K-12 funding and 1% sales tax and I do you know I am leaning more toward the 1% sales tax being being first as well I think because that is something that's going to have I think a massive effect on our budget and on our you know long-term standing in terms of making sure that we can continue making other investments in our capital infrastructure here. That's all I have for now. Thanks.

Catherine ReadAny other questions or comments? Okay. So at this point, we can open the public hearing. Ms. Shinneberry, has this public hearing been properly advertised?

Melissa ShinaberryclerkYes, it has. No one signed up prior to the meeting. Is there anybody in the room that would like to speak on this agenda item?

Catherine ReadWell, all right. I will close the public hearing. There is no council action tonight. The city council will take action to consider the city of Fairfax 2026 legislative program on December 9th, 2025.

Melanie ZippstaffOkay. One quick question. Yes. Do we need a work session on September, December 2nd, or just go straight to consideration?

Catherine ReadDecember 9th. is there if we don't think we need a work session if there's any if there's any specific I'm assuming that people can email you

Melanie Zippstaffabsolutely email

Catherine Readyou with suggested grammatical or anything like that just send it to miss it okay

Melissa Shinaberryclerkthank you okay we will move on to second general public comment is there anybody in the room that would like to make a general public comment at this time.

Jim Featherpublic commentGood evening, Mayor and Council. My name is Jim Feather, 4411 George Mason Boulevard, and as you know, I'm chair of the Planning Commission, and now the Planning Commission rep to the bar. I want to commend the city clerk's office, city attorney, boards and committee, staff liaisons, the handbook for board commissions and advisory committees that we'll be discussing in a work session tonight. High performing organizations always make it clear what the expectations are for roles, responsibilities, commitments, participation and so forth. For some time I've been interested and concerned about this for our committees. One of my other volunteer activities is on a leadership development committee in a 35,000 member professional

Always what good organizations do is make it clear what you are expecting for your key players and your leaders.

Thomas PetersonWhat's proposed is an excellent document.

Jim Featherpublic commentThe way I read it is it's proposed that folks who are appointed commissions, committees, boards will receive a copy of this after their appointment to make it very clear and have them sign an acknowledgment. I would recommend you provide this to applicants before you get to that point. Telling them afterwards what the expectations are is maybe a little bit late to the game. I've taken it upon myself with the agreement of staff and applicants to reach out to folks who have expressed interest in the planning commission to have a conversation with them from my perspective of what the expectations are, what the basis for what the planning commission is, what really all is required. I've had conversations with people that thought all that was required was participating in

two meetings a month. That is hardly what the planning commission and any board or commission is about. To go through the process as to what all we discussed, development projects, the comprehensive plan, stewardship against the objectives in the comprehensive plan, capital improvement program, zoning ordinance, getting people familiar with all the things and providing the links to the documents I think has been very beneficial. I haven't had one person turn me down for this sort of voluntary conversation. I would encourage you, besides providing the general guidelines that you're proposing to discuss tonight to applicants, is that you would strongly encourage them, if not require, that they speak to the board or committee chair or a member

to get the full scope of what they could be getting into. I fully support the intentions of the work. I think it's a great document, a great starting point. I think a couple other ideas that you might want to consider are the ones I've just presented. At some point I'd be happy to have further conversations about this as you wish. Thank you.

Melissa ShinaberryclerkIs there anybody else in the room that I would like to speak under general public comment. All right. We will move along to items not requiring a public hearing. We only have one item, which is a consideration of contract modification for the Andes Drive Pump Station main lining to increase the contract value by $349,904. I'm going to recognize Patty Innocenti, our procurement

Patty Innocentistaffmanager, first. Thank you. And joining me here is Patrick Remsen from the Stormwater Utility Program. The agenda item in front of you tonight is consideration of a contract modification for Andy's Drive pump station mainlining project. We brought the contract award to the council on November 12, 2024 for an estimated award of $834,892. dollars subsequent to the work commencing there was additional restoration work that's needed and i'm going to let patrick talk about the details because this is his area of expertise

Thomas Petersongood evening mayor and council um i'll speak

Speaker 17to the uh infrastructure replacement or infrastructure inside the wet will as detailed in the staff report in january of this year a comprehensive of the sewer pump station at Andes Drive was completed. The assessment identified multiple components that require prioritized rehab, and public works staff met with the contractor during a site visit and shared the report. Staff inquired if this type of work was something that the existing contractor would be able to complete, and upon review of the assessment, the contractor recommended adding the work to the existing contract and offered to keep the new work under the same mobilization. change order the additional excavations the additional cost for excavation and

pipe replacement as part of the forced main rehab is due to inaccurate historical data available at the time of the project bid once construction began we're able to access piece of the pipe and fully survey the location of that pipe we determined that there were several more bins than we had expected and it required additional excavation and pipe replacement where bins were close together. We had to replace a whole section of pipe. Both of these change orders, these works are required to maintain our sanitary sewer infrastructure and the proposed approach is an efficient and cost-effective means of completing the task. The original bid from last September for this project was lower than expected

existing funds appropriated in the capital budget for sewer force mainlining will cover both change orders.

Catherine ReadThank you for the presentation. Are there any questions for staff?

Anthony AmosCouncil Member Amos. Not a question, just a comment. I saw the pictures. That's gross. Thank you for what you're doing.

Speaker 17I want to keep toilets flushing.

Catherine Readgood goal any in councilmember Hall

Stacy HallI just want to confirm that there's no additional expectation of funds beyond this to be able to complete the project we think this is one and done yes

Speaker 17ma'am

Stacy Hallokay thank you

Catherine Readany other questions or comments okay seeing none is there a motion council member Hardy Chandler I

Stacey Hardy-ChandlerI move that the City Council approve a contract modification for the Andes Drive pump station main lining to increase the contract value by $349,904.

Catherine ReadIs there a second? Second. A motion has been made by Council Member Hardy-Tandler and seconded by Council Member Peterson. Is there any discussion on the motion? Seeing none, a roll call vote.

Melissa ShinaberryclerkCouncil Member McQuillan? Aye. Council Member Bates? Aye. Council Member Peterson? Aye. Hardee Chandler aye councilmember Hall aye councilmember Amos aye motion passed unanimously all

Catherine Readright I will now recess the regular meeting to go into the work session but we will stay right here in council chambers Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Amini BonaniThank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Billy BatesThank you. Thank you.

Catherine Readand we're back to our work session here in the chamber ms shinneberry okay

Melissa Shinaberryclerkour first item is a presentation and discussion on the draft FY 2027 through 2031 capital improvement program I'm gonna recognize Melanie Zipp or acting city manager to provide staff presentation good

Melanie Zippstaffevening again mayor and council I'm pleased to present the FY 27 to 31 capital improvement program the draft 2731 capital improvement program can be found on the budget page on the city's website If you just type CIP in the search menu, the first link to pop up will be the budget page, and you can access it right there. As you're aware, all CIP projects must support the city's adopted vision, goals, and comprehensive plan. Next slide. This is the calendar of the CIP touchpoints through adoption. A couple of dates of note, the CFO and I presented the draft plan to the Planning Commission on November 10th. planning commission receives the presentation prior to the city council because state code

requires that the planning commission shall consider a locality's capital improvement program and provide a recommendation to the city council on november 18th today you are getting your presentation in first look then between today and the end of january the planning commissions and the city council each will have the option of additional conversations around the proposed CIP projects. January 26th is when the planning commission will hold a public hearing and provide recommendations to the city council. February 3rd is when you meet as a group with the planning commission and they will present their recommendations to you. And then on February 24th, that is when the city manager will present the fy27 proposed budget which will include the recommended cip

next slide when you compare this year's cip with previous years you'll see a slightly different layout we're only adding projects that are true capital projects in this year's cip in this year's CIP if you look at the red section infrastructure repair and maintenance those projects are oh sorry in the maintenance in the infrastructure repair and maintenance section we are no longer adding new projects to that section those are projects that are not necessarily cip and you will you will see later in the slides that the funding for this section has disappeared and has been moved back to the operating budget the green section the technology infrastructure has been reduced to only true capital projects which we'll get to momentarily but basically all

updates and maintenance have been removed from the cip and put back into operating budget the orange section which is vehicle and equipment replacement will remain finance works really closely with our fleet manager lee hall to schedule out replacements to fit in the cip funding schedule and because these are true assets that fit within the guidelines of what a cip is It will remain in the capital improvement program. Next slide. So those key guidelines for qualifying capital projects are as follows. The project leads to a capital asset creation or significant improvement in current assets. The project has a useful life of five years or more. The project costs exceeds $50,000. It's a one-time expenditure.

the major infrastructure or capital development or the project requires long-term financing

Fogarty Atkisonpublic commentnext slide

Melanie Zippstaffthis is an example of a project page each project when it's submitted by staff has to reference the comp plan timeline all funding sources available and corresponding dollar estimates the estimated project timeline corresponding goal or goals and the responsible department or departments under the funding sources i'd like to point out that the arpa funding is still listed because we have projects that are still using arpa funds we're not receiving any additional funds and all funding needs to be spent by december 31 2026 and we're on track to meet that deadline next slide these are examples of the types of questions that are asked when the cip budget team meets with departments to go over their cip requests we ask about project urgency readiness phasing

and physical planning such as are we responding to state and federal mandates is the project compatible with the implementation of other proposed projects can the project be phased out in out years what will the impacts to the operating budget be and when will that take effect who will benefit from this project based on location number of people demographics and can projects be co-located or combined next slide when departments set out to create a cip project they go through this workflow the departments begin with assessing the need for a capital project by asking the questions from the previous slide they develop the project page and decide which projects are a priority and then submit their project requests during preliminary evaluation department heads meet

with the budget team to justify their requests then between November and early February the city manager the budget team the planning commission and the city council review the existing requests set priorities and get acquainted with the projects this year on may 5th the city council will adopt its budget to include the cip then on january 1st 2026 the projects that are projected to start in fy 27 can begin they go through the process of development acquisition design bidding in construction or ordering which boxes are ticked in this section depends on the type and the complexity of the project next

Judy Frazierpublic commentslide

Melanie Zippstaffso why do we project out five years the cfo and the finance team work hard to level out the total dollars needed through the five years of this of the proposed cip within each project and across all projects to ensure we're not top heavy one year over another and if we are we have an explanation as to why this is why it's so important to ask those questions in the evaluation portion of the building the evaluation portion of building the cip regarding phasing projects priorities where additional funding can come from and when it will arrive the total cip request for fy 27 to 31 program is 636.7 million dollars almost 449 million of that comes from the general fund the reason for the increase over the fy 26 to 30

adopted cip is the two projects related to the school bond referendum which are the elementary renovations and a new roof for the high school because of this you'll notice that in fy26 cip there were 136 projects funded and in fy27 there are only 36 projects requested sorry 63 projects requested staff are very cognizant about the situation the city is in with these high ticket projects and really scaled back to only the necessities next

Fogarty Atkisonpublic commentslide

Melanie Zippstaffthis is a summary of all cip project dollars based on project areas you'll notice infrastructure repair and maintenance has been zeroed out for future funding as it moves back into the operating budget technology infrastructure funding has been significantly reduced because we removed the software maintenance and are only keeping true technology assets in the CIP going forward. Some of the assets listed for this upcoming year are replacements to our physical data centers and our servers for our permanent and backup servers. Looking at vehicle and equipment replacement fund you'll see a drop in FY27 and then an that tapers off in out years this is because mr hall is reevaluating every piece of rolling stock

if its useful life is up based on industry standards but the mileage is low he'll stretch the use out a year or two the jump in fy28 is due to the purchase of six q buses which you'll see later in the slides and some fire apparatus fire apparatus that needs to be ordered right now we're seeing an 18-month lag on buses and a three to five year wait on fire apparatus next

Fogarty Atkisonpublic commentslide

Melanie Zippstafflooking at new projects for fy27 there are only seven as stated earlier this is because staff is aware of the financial situation we're in with the school bond other large ticket CIP projects we will get to shortly and the rising cost of school tuition and

Melissa Shinaberryclerkthey really focused on projects of necessity

Melanie Zippstaffnext slide these are the six projects that live within the small area planning districts there are currently none in the pipeline for Fairfax Circle Planning District and around the horn and starting with Fern Street that is a project that is funded by federal and CNI dollars and it has a FY 26 construction date Germantown Road and route 29 improvements has a construction date of FY 26 that is also CNI funding NVTA 70% funding and revenue sharing funding the Germantown improvements are nvta 70 funding and that has a fy26 construction date at the top the north facts east west road is nvta 70 funding it has a projected start of construction between 2030 and 2032 and south street extension is smart scale funding with a construction of a construction

date of 2028 at the bottom fire station 3 building is general fund funded and the funding isn't will be in place by fy 29 the goal was completion in the fall of 27 but we are still evaluating with council the idea of a ppea and how to move forward on that project next slide the next three projects are highlighted because of the amount of discussion and the large price tags that they have fire station three there are a couple highlights about this project project funding began in fy 24 and to date half has been appropriated and the next half will come over the next three years this building is actually older than fire station 33 was when we replaced that one however we did not own this building until last year when the volunteers signed it over to

the city the city acquired the property next door that was owned by george mason university foundation last year and the building that building will be vacant after december 15 of this year as i stated on the previous slide this project was to begin construction in fy27 however staff and council are still deliberating on the potential for a ppea and how that could help defray some of the costs next slide Van Dyke Master Plan is the next one. Community outreach began on the Van Dyke Master Plan back in 2018 and it was put into the CIP in FY21. It was delayed and pushed for several years. With the time lapse, the Parks and Recreation Director would like to redo the community engagement and coordinate this project along with the Blenheim Boulevard project and Willard

sherwood to ensure that we don't have three large construction projects happening at the same time and making sure that the van dyke master plan master plan complements the new willard sherwood facility expansion last year this project was proposed to begin funding in fy27 however for all the reasons stated previously the phasing of the funding has been pushed to fy28 next

Catherine Readslide

Melanie Zippstaffthe next large project is the city's property yard this has been on the books as needing improvements for many years there is frequent flooding on the site and property damage is not uncommon one-third of all city employees work at or out of the property yard and majority of the site is within the floodplain when weather is expected employees have to build in time in their day to move assets from the yard to other locations of higher ground you will notice that the previous estimate was 65 million however those were very rough numbers and with the project manager refining the project the price tag has more than doubled to 155 million this is due to two different scenarios that could occur if the property yard stays in its current location

the city would have to pull it out of the flood plain which would include acquiring some of the neighboring properties and constructing a large flood wall if the property yard were split between two locations there would be site prep and other logistics and possible duplication of some services such as fueling stations that would need to occur. There is no funding request for FY27. That will begin in FY28 for feasibility design and engineering.

Catherine ReadNext slide.

Melanie ZippstaffThe last project or last slide is vehicle and equipment replacement. As I said earlier, the city is due to purchase six Q-buses in FY27. Q buses are deemed obsolete by the FTA after 12 years which would be FY27 as they were purchased in FY15 if you remember I stated earlier the wait time for buses is now 18 months approximately unlike with fire apparatus the Department of Rail and Public Transit DRPT doesn't allow the city to pre-order buses we must wait until we reach useful life which means our maintenance bill goes up for that year that we're waiting on our current fleet the bill goes up on our current fleet for 12 to 18 months while we're waiting for the new ones to arrive this is not ideal as we have 12 buses currently and run eight per day which leaves four spare

buses to rotate in any time a bus needs to come out of service it's not ideal but it's what we're working with so the requested funding appears in fy 27 to be ordered and received in early fy 29.

Catherine Readnext slide this

Melanie Zippstaffis just another look at our calendar and with that i would like to state to thank staff for their conservative number of requests this year and for the budget and finance team for their work in realigning of the CIP. Thank you for your time and staff is here to answer any questions.

Catherine ReadThank you so much for the presentation. Do we have questions? Council Member Amos.

Anthony AmosThank you. Great presentation and appreciate the scaling back considering the context that's coming up. questions specifically one for Van Dyke Park so does the park have a life expectancy or is it just related to certain equipment I know that the general plan has been set in motion I also know flagged that you said it would need to be revisited what is the plan for revisiting this and also what is the urgency related to Van Dyke Park I know for example the fitness equipment is dilapidated but then there are some there are some more actively used spots like with the tennis court and the pickleball court that seemed to be in decent condition I don't frequent it myself so I don't want to speak on

behalf of the pickleball or tennis community they're very active so what are we looking like there yeah I guess to so I understand the importance of the city it's our premier Park in terms of urgency for this type of redesign, revisiting, which will have, what does that look like and what is an expected timeline if we were to revisit this to look at the plans? That was just one of the recommendations I saw in the presentation.

Melanie ZippstaffSo we have pushed out the funding to FY28. I'm just gonna see if I could find it really quick so we have funding starting in FY 28 for feasibility planning design and engineering and then construction in fy29 like i said this this is a plan that has been on the books for several years it started in fy 21 if council chose to push this out further

Anthony AmosWas there an inciting reason for this plan outside of potential economic opportunities I imagine related to the park? Is it just are there conditional issues or anything of urgency? And maybe this is more of an answer later and talk to Ms. Summerfield. Yeah. Completely understand.

Melanie ZippstaffThis would be, she can answer this better than I can. I don't necessarily think there's an urgency. Go ahead. I will defer to the CFO.

J.C. Martinezstaffdiscussions with director Summerfield it's my understanding that this park was done in the 1960s and has not had any significant renovations or remodels since there have been some updates as you mentioned with pickleball to what the manager was stating back in 2018 there was community outreach there was a discussion and a concept done based off of the outreach but because COVID hit delayed that implementation. We're trying to bring it back to the CIP, but again, as the manager stated, sort of in 28, 29 timeframe, it's my understanding that PRAB also supports that timeline and discussions with Director Summerfield as well, but no real life expectancy other than the last time there was any significant

development on the site was when it was originally done

Anthony Amos60s and this this is separate from Van Dyck Park going over to the Cuba side of things and this is more of a general knowledge question and this could be answered at a later time but I'm assuming that we're on the prowl for alternative sources of funding transportation partnerships potentially I know we kind of discussed advertising briefly is there is it possible to to discuss it later

Melanie Zippstaffprobably better to get answers from our transportation director but i will say any opportunity that she has to get additional funding especially for transit she's looking for it and

Anthony Amosfor a clarifying question just to make sure i have it right because george mason they provide funding for the for some of the use of it but they it would not chime in for like for example MISUNDERSTANDING THAT.

Melanie ZippstaffIT'S OPERATING. CORRECT. CORRECT.

J.C. MartinezstaffGEORGE MASON UNIVERSITY PROVIDES ANNUAL FUNDING FOR Q. WE REACHED A REVISED AGREEMENT WITH THEM A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO. THERE IS AN ESCALATION CLAWS BUILT IN ABOUT 3, 3.5% PER YEAR. CURRENTLY WE'RE LOOKING AT ABOUT $950,000 PER YEAR THAT THEY CONTRIBUTE TOWARDS THAT.

Speaker 26WE JUST GET AN ANNUAL pay for buses. And the other thing about the advertising, we've looked into wrapping the buses, wrapping the bus shelters. It's something that we could do. We talked about that years ago with the previous council and they didn't really want the buses to look like a giant Pepsi can or something like that. So they decided against it. But of course, economic was different back then. And I

Anthony Amosthink last time we discussed it, I think they said that the overall revenue would still be marginal anyway so it wouldn't even really be that beneficial

Melanie Zippstaffbecause we're a closed system within the city of fairfax right yeah

Catherine Readother comments councilmember hall

Stacy Hallthank you

Catherine Readum

Stacy Halli wanted to go to the public safety slide number 12. so if if i wrote down the notes correctly you had indicated that the fire station was now moved to general fund fiscal year 2029. Is that correct? I'm trying to find my

Melanie Zippstaffslide. I think that is correct. I think that's correct. Is that correct?

J.C. MartinezstaffSo I can't remember off the top of my head. of what we did in conjunction with the fire chief was lessen the request for 27 and push more out on the on the out years and the reason for that is what the manager was stating is initially the intent was for it to be constructed in 27 that's not going to happen there's still a lot of more discussion we're only at 30 percent design right now additionally we're still having ongoing to incorporate a PPEA so trying to appropriate a larger amount in the coming year really doesn't make sense so we pushed some of those funding out to when we would really need it specifically when and if we do break construction

Melanie Zippstaffokay and to answer sorry to answer yes fy29 okay thank you the last year

Patty Innocentistafffor

Melanie Zippstafffor funding to be allocated

Stacy Hallokay but that doesn't mean that any loans any bonds would be taken before that time it's again just the wish list amazon wish list is what the cip kind of looks like correct okay and then you had indicated if i wrote down it correctly that the george mason building is going to be vacant as of december 2025 yeah okay uh so recognizing that there's going to be now an open building from december 2025 through 29 thereabouts have we given any consideration to what could be done with that building in the interim as far as things that could be rented in their space that we could use relocation of other things that we are currently using or have space for or taking on a landlord position or renting back to george mason and

Speaker 26they using the the parking area kind of working with the contractors and moving vehicles for the current Thys Park construction project and there was talk about using the parking areas for future projects for contractors or whatever as far as the building is concerned all all Public Works is is doing is going to we have not been told that it's going to be any decision has been made on renting it out or anything

Stacy Hallhow many square feet and floors is that but it just seems like a total lost asset if we don't try to use it in the meantime and potentially generate some revenue from it I would think could be something to consider

Melanie Zippstaffit's it's definitely something we can discuss yeah

Speaker 26it has been mentioned to economic development also about possible use of that but no decision has been made but it has been discussed about what to do with that space

Stacy Hallokay I personally I would think that that would be an expedited conversation so that we could start maybe recognizing some sort of return on that investment in the short term I know we majority of us had a tour of the fire station both number 33 and 3 the other day and then councilmember McQuillan and I met with President Imran Salik to discuss a little bit more detail and a lot of other questions. And one of the things that came up was the sleeping conditions, the sleep hygiene, and some of the things that are going on at Station 33. And I know you and I discussed this the other day. It also came to my attention and others during the meeting that there's a very large bingo space that has previously been used in that area.

So I recognize that we're looking into PPEA options and trying to understand that and see what could be good there. But in conjunction with the conversations about a new fire station, I also strongly would suggest if council is on board with having conversations about how we can, in the short term, solve the more pressing needs that it seems the firefighters are experiencing, which is potentially some sewer backups when it comes to laundry the sleep hygiene and the fact that when the fire alarm goes off it wakes up everybody as opposed to being able to manage that a little bit differently as I said it looked like there was some extra space there that could be considered for maybe moving around their gym area to a taller ceiling to not be on the apparatus

floor so these are all things that you know we have not collectively discussed but individually discussed in smaller conversation so would certainly like to be open to having a larger conversation about that again sooner rather than later so that we can prioritize the health safety and welfare of the firefighters that are working out of there

Catherine Readso thank you council member Hardy Chandler

Stacey Hardy-ChandlerI thought a couple of comments or observations and then a question. The first thing I want to highlight is slides seven and eight because I want to commend you on the fact that there's a lot of intention that goes into the proposal of the CIP projects and the fact that there are, first of all, criteria defining CIP, but more than that, a process of evaluation questions to determine which projects to move forward and how to I really appreciate that for the education of all of us because I think there's a misunderstanding that some of our projects are simply for the purpose of spending money, which is not the case. It's for the betterment of the city. I really appreciated the background information that you provided around the intentionality

of these CIP projects. Thank you all for all of that because that part matters as much as the projects do. the five-year timeline I think the other comment I wanted to make around that is certainly in these times there is more I would say it seems like there's more volatility in terms of estimations and and the things that could come up and certainly as has been discussed in prior meetings the further you look out the more blurry those estimations get so I I think we all have to be kind of alert to the fact that some of these projections just as the years go by it gets more and more unpredictable and in these times it seems like the volatility is more extreme and that's going to come up for for multiple projects I do have a

question about the Q bus and there was the mention of the fact that new buses cannot be ordered until they hit maturity and then it takes 18 months and then you have the cost of maintenance what is the rationale behind waiting until maturity since it so clearly defined as 12 years in order to place the order

Speaker 26I know this rule has frustrated Wendy. It's just a DRPT requirement that the buses have to reach a certain point before you can even order them. And once you order them, it takes 18 months to get them. But DRPT will not let you, you know, they contribute to the purchase of these buses. They will not let you order them until they reach that threshold.

Stacey Hardy-ChandlerIs there a rationale behind why that's the case to understand?

Speaker 26No, we made them very aware of that 18-month maintenance cost, but it's just the way it is right now.

Stacey Hardy-ChandlerAnd what is, do we have a sense of what that cost is going to be potentially for these six buses for maintenance for another year and a half?

Speaker 26You know, our fleet guys are pretty good with keeping things running. some of the buses are unpredictable it could be anywhere from let's see could be anywhere from 20,000 a year to 70,000 a year depending on what we have to do so 18 months you know significant

Stacey Hardy-Chandlerand then finally I just want to piggyback on what councilmember Hall was saying specifically about the fire stations but general again zooming out more macro view about we we hear a lot about the CIP projects but I think that there is this is sort of a case of how do we look at interim things across the board and is there some way to engage EDA or other community partners so that well ahead of time because I am concerned about the things that you can put into place as early as possible how we deal with these interim projects or interim uses across the board is there an approach to that that is in the works as we look at how we rethink CIP the interim plan before the plan you know what I'm asking I

J.C. Martinezstaffdon't know if I completely understand the question councilmember

Stacey Hardy-Chandlerso the example that councilmember Hall gave is how could as we're thinking about for example the fire station how could spaces be used differently to address more immediate needs I think that's a great question but I think it's a question that we should to plans across the board and i'm just wondering as we look at how decisions are made um through that graph through the evolution of projects is there a space to insert how we evaluate the interim before a plan a cip project is rolled out

J.C. Martinezstaffsure does that make sense it doesn't

Stacey Hardy-Chandlerso i'm using her comment just as an example of can we take a policy perspective to the interim pieces sure

J.C. Martinezstaffand i would say it's probably two parts so life and safety features of critical need would probably be addressed and then additionally any significant capital renovations that are of immediate need would also come to mind a good example is actually what was approved earlier today that was also Council via schools regarding the vestibules. That is a life and safety need. The plan still is to go ahead and renovate those two elementary schools, but Council approved a reappropriation to go ahead and incorporate that feature now prior to the renovations with the understanding that those renovations will also be included as a part of the renovation. So that, in my mind, is the plan before the actual renovation as well.

So anything, again, life safety critical and or anything else that would need significant immediate need would be something that would be making the CIP.

Speaker 26I think we're pretty aware of these interim things. I know with the Barker property on Main Street, as soon as we knew it was available, it's being used for several different temporary uses, like storing a tree nursery or using it for Parks Department storage or things like that. And I know with the building we were talking about next to the fire station, back when Chris Bruno was here, we brought it up to him about you know we weren't sure how long was going to be empty but we brought it up to him that there might be a period of time i know he was a little concerned about finding a lessee for a small amount of time but we were aware of it it wasn't like it just you know we missed it you know i don't think we have a policy but i think staff is pretty good at seeing when

something's available taking use for it especially when it comes to staging for construction vehicles because one thing we don't have a lot of is for contractors and staff to park for construction projects so that's like one of the first things we you know we use these parking areas for

Stacey Hardy-Chandlerthank you great to hear appreciate that

Catherine Readother questions comments councilman peterson

Thomas Petersonhi thanks for doing this and again apologies for being a little hoarse here If we go back, I think it's slide four where there's some criteria for consideration. There you go, project evaluation questions. To what extent is staff capacity a factor in any of this? Obviously, it takes a lot of staff time and effort to manage CIP projects, and I didn't see that per se on the list here, but maybe it's embedded somewhere. How is that handled?

Melanie ZippstaffStaff capacity, I guess I would probably say that if we don't have the capacity, it's not coming forward.

Thomas PetersonIs that a formal criteria and such that when we receive projects, we know that they've cleared that hurdle or is it not managed that way?

Speaker 26Staff capacity today is really, in public works at least, is to administer projects. Back when I started with the city 24 years ago, we actually had a position for a draftsman. And we had so few projects that we were able to do some work in-house, put the plans together and do things like that. But because of the number of projects that we have and the complexity of the project and all the compliance requirements and all the hoops we have to jump through for the money, really, my staff administers projects. They usually have 50 projects at one time. Some of them are in design. Some of them are studies. Some of them are managing the contractor in the field. Some of them are working with residents.

Right now, that's what our capacity is, is to administer projects. If the number of projects reduced drastically, and depending on what those projects are, depending on how large they were, for instance, a project like, you know, Blenheim Boulevard is such a big project, that's going to take several staff just to manage the construction. But if, you know, if it was a, we had a lot less projects and they were smaller, I think we would have more capacity to do more without third party. Because I think that's what you're getting at, right, is third parties being used?

Thomas PetersonWell, not entirely. I mean, I'm sensitive to staffing constraints in terms of being able to administer projects, as you say. And part of it is how many, but also part of it is how big they are and how complex they are. And, you know, you can get stretched thin. And the more that's added, the harder you get stretched thin. And so I'm just curious to know how that's taken into consideration in terms of.

Speaker 26Councilman Peterson for my project management staff to come to me every few weeks to reprioritize and see what has to be done now, what is on the timeline, what has we have to spend the money now or we have to get it done before the weather changes or it's a safety issue. We're constantly reprioritizing because it's hard to keep all the projects moving at the same pace at once

Thomas Petersonwhen we make project to proof CIP approvals they have a timeline etc and then we not only put them in budget but we appropriate and there's a an expectation in terms of implementation what I'm hearing is that there's a second stage of reprioritization of those potentially what is the procedure for in the cases where things are being reprioritized for the council to be notified that that's something under consideration well

Speaker 26one of the things would be with our monthly updates that we send out on our project status I mean we try to keep all the projects moving but certain projects will take longer than others if they're not as critical for an example you can you could name the the LED conversion project in Old Town you know that That probably could have been done quicker if there weren't all these other projects that had to get done. So we try and update the city manager and of course finance knows because we're spending the money and if the money's not being spent they'll ask us. And then we send, I know each of my divisions send a project, a monthly project update sheet which says what phase the project's in. I don't think we've ever really dropped the ball that much that the project was grossly, the timeline was grossly delayed.

We've been fortunate. And like you know, I have several retirees that work for me as temps. For instance, Chief Wilson, who used to work here, is retired, and he works for me as a temp, and he's overseeing the Old Town Hall project. When it becomes an issue, I try and get somebody in, even on a temp basis, to help keep these projects moving.

Thomas PetersonOkay. Well, fair enough. It sounds like there's a feasibility issue here, though, that the council should be made aware of when we're being asked to approve these projects, to understand the risks that are involved because of staffing constraints, because it sounds like there are delays at a minimum, possibly more than delays, and that is a variance from the approvals that are made through appropriation. And so because there's a risk of those variances taking place, it would be, I think, good to build on the front end a more clear understanding of the staff limitations and constraints and the impact that has on the feasibility of the timelines and the administration of the projects.

Speaker 26Yeah, and I think one thing the budget team does is when they reach out to Public Works about the budget, they usually ask us to prioritize the projects because typically they can't all be funded. So we usually do prioritize what projects need to get done. And as far as Public Works is concerned, we're looking at safety and compliance. safety, and compliance is our top priority projects.

Thomas PetersonOkay. Well, we'll maybe look forward to more on that. A second question. On this list, maybe it's the sixth slide, there is a listing here of types or categories. One more slide. One more. No,

Jim Featherpublic commentI

Thomas Petersonthink

Jim Featherpublic commentsomehow

Thomas Petersonor another. There is a listing of the kinds of things that are in the CIP. Got it. Well, lost it. So many dang slides. Ah, it's on slide four. At least I've got it on slide four, which is one below this one. There we go. This may be something that falls under item number one, and that is planning projects. And so is it my understanding that a planning project will be designated as a capital improvement project if it leads to capital asset creation or improvement? So if you do a climate action plan, an energy plan, et cetera, that's considered a capital improvement because it's leading potentially to infrastructure development. How is that handled exactly?

J.C. Martinezstaffon itself would not be considered a capital asset. There is no asset per GASB definition or even GAP of a creation of an asset, a tangible asset. Now, in conjunction to that plan, if it leads to some other tangible fixed amount, then we would be able to go ahead and capitalize that. But just a plan on its own would not be capitalized.

Thomas PetersonEven if it's a plan, for instance, for infrastructure development?

J.C. MartinezstaffIf it's a two-part and it leads to the formation or recognition of a capital asset under the Gaspier Gap definition, then yes, we would be able to capitalize a portion of the plan. But the plan itself, no.

Thomas Petersonso i think in the budget and in appropriations last year i can't recall how many things fell into this category but i recall there were two climate action plans that were in the capital improvement uh budget have they since been uh relocated so that they're not in cip any longer how is that handled sure

J.C. Martinezstaffgreat question council member and our budget directors here in case i was to basically not go back in time, leave those in the current approved CIP as they were adopted in FY26. As the budget director gave a presentation to council on the reconciliation and an update on this policy going forward for 27, that's where the corrections are being made. As those funds are being expended in FY26 and going back, they will fall off that plan.

Thomas PetersonOkay. Good to know. Then just to be clear on maybe another point that's involved here, those would be examples but certainly not the only of what I would call open planning processes where it remains to be determined what the recommendations and what the implementation actions will be by virtue of their scope. They're designed to identify investments in infrastructure, technology practices, et cetera, but that's based on a decision-making process, which is being funded by the planning process itself. But there is, without a guarantee, there is an expectation that recommendations will come out of that that will lead to subsequent implementation and subsequent spending to support that, and that's the point of doing plans.

I'm I'm guessing but I just like maybe some verification here that we are not disqualifying planning projects from moving forward that are open in that manner in other words they're not wired for a particular thing they're not at the end stage where we're just doing some final stage design work it's a much more open front-end process is that fair

J.C. Martinezstaffabsolutely so the information that's listed here on the screen or on the slide is not all-encompassing and is also not rock solid in the sense that we can adapt and make an interpretation based on counsel with our auditor as well. If the project were to, so an example, if it does not exceed $50,000 but it is a significant improvement to a current asset and greatly extends its life, that may fall under of a capital asset a good example that was sort of discuss of what would not fall is if you paint a building and it pretty expensive to paint a new building such as maybe old town hall fifty sixty thousand dollars is what the cost would be that the painting itself is not a capital asset it does not greatly extend the life of that but other functions such as new windows new hvac

those systems would greatly extend the life of that capital asset and then itself would become something that could be capitalized.

Thomas PetersonAnd my last question, thank you, is in terms of disclosure at a light item level, is there a cutoff below which CIP expenditures are bundled in some category rather than line itemed so that when we see things, are we seeing things that are only above a certain line item level or are we seeing everything?

J.C. MartinezstaffSo a good example would be in one of those construction projects, you would have design, feasibility, engineering, and construction all bundled in that proposed CIP number. What you will not see is in, like, technology and infrastructure, where previously we've had $40,000, $60,000 as a request. That $40,000, $60,000 was $2,000 worth of X number of PCs. together yes they do equal a large amount but individually they're below our threshold so we took them out they would not be capitalized at that point but if we're buying software a one-time expenditure of a hundred and fifty two hundred thousand dollars that would be capitalized

Thomas Petersonwell just to clarify so sometimes the way this is structured is through a third-party contract for instance, planning contracts that by virtue of scope are designed for infrastructure that they could include other things. Is there a cutoff there in terms of what comes to council and what we consider of, you know, $50,000 or something, or is that not the case?

J.C. MartinezstaffThat would not be the case. So, again, the majority of, if not all, the CIPs that are currently listed are a combination of all costs, specifically for construction, engineering, feasibility. All that is listed as one. We would be allowed to capitalize all of that. If I'm understanding you correctly, hopefully I'm answering that as well.

Thomas PetersonWell, if there's a contract for $40,000 to plan the development of something that is a capital improvement project, Is that something that we will see listed?

J.C. MartinezstaffNot if it's just an individual item. No, not associated to any other part of the CIP project. That would fall under operating as a one-time item that doesn't benefit a capital tangible item. And where is that, just a reminder, in the budget? That would be under operating on the department side under probably contract services.

Thomas PetersonOkay, great. Thank you. Sure. Council Member

Catherine ReadMcQuillan.

Rachel McQuillenThank you. Are the projects evaluated by economic impact?

J.C. MartinezstaffI don't think that is one of the structures. A lot of the requests that are listed on here are for the benefit of governmental activities, such as the property yard, public safety. It's a little difficult to associate an economic benefit tied to the fire station, the police station, even schools per se. There are no economic benefit as in we're not building a retail center or anything like that. your question?

Rachel McQuillenWell, job creation, local business activity, things like that usually can be understood to increase depending on the asset that we're discussing or the project that we're, you know, discussing.

J.C. MartinezstaffUnderstood. And I don't know if there's any direct evaluation process with that. To your point, I would think like Thies Park redeveloping those Little League Fields. There's an indirect benefit there as well. Hopefully people would stay and have some meals within the city. Additionally, potentially Van Dyke Park as the central park within the city. If that were to be redeveloped, there may be more activity within that area that would lead to potential additional revenues, whether that's meals tax or sales tax as well.

Rachel McQuillenYeah, I was thinking also taking into consideration that some of these projects require some additional connections of roadways or walkways that, you know, allow, you know what I'm saying. So I was just curious if that was something that's evaluated by our ED, our Economic Development Department, or if not, if we've ever considered that, adding that into the process, and if so, where that would occur.

J.C. MartinezstaffI think that's a great suggestion, and it's something we can take into consideration and discuss with the manager and economic development as well.

Catherine ReadThank you. I was just curious. Council Member Peterson.

Thomas PetersonWell, I appreciate very much the question and want to build on it and maybe clarify because in addition to the economic development benefits, job creation, et cetera, at a more direct level in terms of return on investment and benefits that are associated with an investment, I would think that you could value services and assets that are created by these investments, and that goes into a straight-up cost-benefit analysis and return on investment calculation, value safety services, et cetera, value assets that are created, and they have or they can certainly be given a value to do that. Is that something we might also look into? So that could be a part of what everybody is able to see on these investments as some method of establishing a stack of benefits and then a return on investment for that.

J.C. MartinezstaffI think that's something that we can investigate and definitely take under consideration as well as we develop and fine tune the CIP as well.

Catherine ReadGreat.

Thomas PetersonThank you.

Catherine ReadAny other questions or comments? okay do you feel like you have adequate direction from the dais

Melanie Zippstaffyes for right now yes there'll be other opportunities to to discuss the CIP more this was just to present it you guys can take it home okay absorb it

Catherine Readokay okay that sounds

Melissa ShinaberryclerkBarry all right our next item is a discussion on the board's commissions and advisory committee statement of economic interest filing bylaws and handbook I'm going to recognize Brian love command our city attorney first to provide the staff report

Brian Lubkermanstaffthanks again mayor and council and we will move through these final two work session items hopefully quickly they're primarily designed for input from you all the first is the discussion on the Committee's statement of economic interest filing bylaws and handbook. But we had received at least one or two questions from you, primarily Councilmember Peterson and perhaps others about conflicts of interest. I mean, the obvious side of it are elected and appointed members of the larger boards and trusted staff, as the term is used in the city code and in the state code. but there had been some questions raised about the possibility of either of well first of all identifying which of the boards and commissions have similar

requirements and whether that should be expanded in the pros and cons of that so the first part of this item has to do with the required disclosures conflict of interest and this is set forth the requirements under state law and the enabling authority under state law is the state and local government conflict of Interests Act which has quite a number of requirements but one of the provisions says that governing bodies can designate persons who occupy such positions of trust appointed by the governing bodies or employed by governing bodies as may be designated by ordinance to file conflict of interest forms and those are mandated by the state in the city code we have section 277 and 278 277 identifies

subject to the scope of the division. We identified that there are some updates that need to be made just because of changes to code provisions. So we will be bringing forward amendments to those provisions anyway. But just wanted to briefly go over Section 277, and it is in your packet, and it's a very long single sentence that I did not write. I will not take credit for that, but it's quite long. But obviously the mayor, members of city council, that's required under state code anyway. Planning Commission, the School Board, Board of Zoning Appeals, Real Estate Assessor, Board of Architectural Review, City Manager, City Attorney, Commissioner of the Revenue, Treasurer, all department heads and their deputies.

And then there's a long list of individuals that are or positions that are identified there. Obviously, there's an update because we now have a Chief Financial Officer position. Some of the titles have changed. One of the suggestions that we are making, we will be making, is to remove the requirement that deputies of the various departments are required to submit these forms. Obviously, the department heads, we understand the requirement for that. The filling out forms is an onerous requirement. It is, well, you all fill out these forms, and while we know that the forms speak to general categories and not specific assets, it is time-consuming for individuals to fill out those forms. So we will be recommending that deputies in the various departments not be required to

fill out. However, that's not a firm request. If the council wants to continue to require that, that's certainly within the council's purview. The other question is, so right now we have the Planning Commission, the Board of Zoning Appeals, and the Board of Architectural Review as boards and commissions that are required to file these forms. In the enabling authority, the language provides that non-salaried citizen members of local boards, commissions, and councils, as may be designated by the governing body, shall file as a condition for assuming office a disclosure form and then annual renewals. We do not include virtually any of the other, well, we don't include any of the other boards and commissions of the city.

I did go back and do a little checking as to the history for some of these requirements. And I think correctly, a decision was made early on by councils that, given that it's difficult enough to get folks to staff many of these boards and commissions, especially when they're doing it on a volunteer basis, to have a requirement essentially that they disclose elements of their financial situation, it was deemed to be onerous. I did a survey of other jurisdictions around. There are, with almost no exceptions, requirements for boards below the ones that I listed, planning Board of Architecture review different jurisdictions some require some don't and boards of zoning appeals there's no requirements anywhere that we could find

that citizen boards at a lower level and I don't mean no apply lower and in the terms of less importance but just lower in the in the sense of where you would deem that there would be conflicts of interest required that they disclose you To note in the separate, the second part of this will be the, just if you all have any questions about the handbook that the city clerk developed in consultation with liaisons and with me, that we have general statements about the fact that individuals do need to be cognizant of and identify any potential situations where matters that come before them or matters that they might be asked to opine on or provide input on, that they certainly be cognizant of potential or actual conflicts.

In my opinion, it's less of an issue with most of these boards of commissions because they're not decision making, they're advisory. Ultimately others are making decisions. So again, entirely up to you all as a council whether you want to expand the scope of individuals that are required to report but with the caution that's developed out of years of experience that the city has had that it may make it more difficult to fill positions on these boards and commissions if you do impose those so before we get to the handbook I just wanted to stop on that and see if you all had any reaction to the suggestion that we remove deputies from having to submit the forms and again I don't think anyone has a strong feeling one way or the other but we are

trying to simplify the process as much as possible and if there are any other who needs to file those forms on an annual basis.

Catherine ReadCouncil Member McQuillan?

Rachel McQuillenHow many deputies do we have?

Brian LubkermanstaffWell, for most of the department, I don't have a roster, but, you know, again, what you would imagine. You have a, well, maybe the clerk can... I'm counting.

Melissa ShinaberryclerkWell, we have assistant directors and deputies, chief of fire and police so out of the number I would say like four but it's very low

Brian Lubkermanstaffwell in some assistance are included in here as deputies and vice versa so again we're not trying to reinvent the wheel we're just trying to make the process a little more simple but if there's no if there's no desire to change it we can certainly leave it the way it is we haven't received complaints we're just you

Speaker 12know

Brian Lubkermanstaffmaking suggestions to simplify the paperwork

Catherine ReadCouncilmember Hardy Chandler and then Councilmember Bates.

Stacey Hardy-ChandlerI'm all for simplicity and streamlining. My question is if there are implications if those deputies have to step into the lead position on an interim basis, if there are any perceived consequences to that. Otherwise, I would be in support of it being as.

Brian LubkermanstaffAnd that is probably the best and only argument for keeping those in. It doesn't happen often. But we have others who step into interim roles that are not the deputy or an assistant. But I understand the point on that. So again, we're just offering this as a, since we're going to be making

Stacey Hardy-Chandlerchanges to this provision. Yeah. You know. I would support not but yeah just want to make sure pros and cons are considered

Catherine Readcouncilmember Bates

Billy Batesyeah I'm in agreement on that and actually that was going to be another point that yeah you know first off we don't you might have somebody who is not a deputy stepping into an interim director role but also So, by my account, it sounds like we don't have a deputy for every single department. So I think there is perhaps a bit of an inequity there in terms of who would be required to file and who would not. And it sounds like about, you know, if there are only four or five, then half of them are made up of the deputy police and fire chiefs which you know I think that they would be you know a lot further down in terms of concern over conflict of interest than say not to singling anybody out just in terms of the

missions of departments economic development or community development of planning in terms of just having more direct interactions and relationships with local businesses and developers and whatnot. So, yeah, it just doesn't really make sense to me to require that of the deputies. And then on the other hand, if we did continue to do that, you know, it's kind of like how far down are we going to go? we're going to start requiring, you know, like anybody in any kind of management position to do it. It's just somewhat arbitrary to me. The department heads themselves are the ones who are the ranking members of the staff in terms of their respective special, you know, specializations, you know, in terms of subject matter.

So I think that, you know, everybody else within their department, within their specialization, answers to them. And they're ultimately the ones who, through the city manager, advise us and act on our behalf. So if we have them do it, I don't think there's any need for anybody else to do it.

Thomas PetersonOther questions, comments? Councilman Peterson? this is actually not a separate topic on conflicts of interest and not on the disclosure so I'll wait for this to be cleared councilmember Hall

Stacy Hallthank you if someone were to step into the role would they only then be required to complete the form if they are sitting in that role as of January 15th or would they have to fill out the disclosure before taking on Or does it not happen at

Brian Lubkermanstaffall that way? It does not typically, someone steps in on an interim basis or an acting basis. That does not impose a requirement upon them simply by serving in that role. The other thing I just want to note, and if we keep in mind what these forms do and what they don't do, they're a snapshot as of December 31st of the previous year. It's not an ongoing requirement during the course of the year. It's done once per year. categories. Respectfully, I don't think they really identify conflicts. It's a list. They sit in folders. They very rarely get looked at. To me, the larger protection by the state and local government conflict of interest act has to do with prohibited conduct and personal interest in transactions. The ongoing requirements that actually apply to all officers and employees

Whether you file the forms or not, there are obligations imposed upon employees of municipalities, governments, agencies to self-monitor, to report, to recuse, to do any one of a number of things. And there are contracts that cannot be awarded. There are transactions that cannot be entered into. You all sitting up there in other bodies have obligations with respect to disclosure and recusal or disclosure and participation but identification those are the protections I just a personal view I don't think the forms accomplished much but it is a nice little check the box of general category so you can I mean we always joke that the what they show is sort of you know the categories of investments that people have and you know I don't know how else to describe

it the only reason we're suggesting simplifying the list of officers or employees that are required to do this is just because again as people note some departments have deputies some don't some departments have assistants that serve essentially as a deputy but they're not called a deputy so we're not requiring we do identify some but we're not requiring everybody who would be sort of the number two to disclose yeah

Stacy Hallno I'm okay with your suggestion my only under the procedures for disclosure under item D. It just refers to he as a member. I think there were a couple of he's in there. Is it possible to change that

Brian Lubkermanstaffor is that code? So you've gotten into one of the problems with city codes and municipal codes generally, which were always drafted with the masculine tone. We do have a provision in our city code that says when he is used, it means she, et cetera, et cetera. At some point when we recodify the city code generally, we will go to, I mean, frankly, I'm a big fan of not using he, she, and essentially just use the position title or the name of the position. I just didn't know when we were doing this

Stacy Hallif we would take that one part.

Brian LubkermanstaffUnderstood. As we do changes, we may just go ahead and do it. That's a good suggestion.

Catherine ReadThank you. Anything before we move on to Council Member Peterson's question? Council Member Peterson?

Thomas PetersonSo on the conflict of interest summary, I guess, is what we have here. Just if you could clarify one thing, if I read it correctly, it says that somebody should disclose a personal interest prior to a vote. But what about after the vote? in situations for following a vote, then they actually engage in something that was enabled by the vote that took place. How is that handled?

Brian LubkermanstaffSo those would be case-by-case analyses because they're very fact-specific. You know, there's obviously, well, the state and local government conflict of interest act imposes upon the individual, not the jurisdiction, not the agency, the obligation to self-regulate. So if, and I'll just use you as an example, if you vote on something and then all of a sudden, maybe I shouldn't use an example, but you vote on something and then immediately after there's a financial windfall or there's a contract that gets awarded, ordinarily that wouldn't mandate a reporting requirement. I would assume that that conflict would be identified and disclosed before the vote. Because obviously if someone's getting a contract after a vote, that means that there was a

before the vote occurred. So it's fact-based. It's specific. The penalties speak to personal interest in a transaction in a matter before the body. If a vote has occurred, the matter is no longer before the body. It still doesn't mean you may not have to or you should not disclose. It still doesn't mean that there may not be an issue. But by definition, those need to be very specific situations that are analyzed one by one.

Thomas PetersonOkay. That's great. But there's a procedure. It's a non-answer to your question. understand correctly what it says is there is a procedure which is if something comes up there's a mechanism by which that can be examined

Brian Lubkermanstaffabsolutely

Thomas Petersonyeah okay

Brian Lubkermanstaffabsolutely i will say the conflict of interest laws um they have evolved over the years much as foia has evolved over the years um but they again the system in virginia as in many states is it still relies ultimately on and self-analysis of the individuals that are in the positions. We do not do financial analyses of individuals within city government. It would be impossible to do. Great.

Thomas PetersonMy other questions are unrelated to that. I have some others about other areas. Okay.

Brian LubkermanstaffWould you, I know you, I'm sorry, Mayor. I know you said you had some other questions on this, handbook or okay we don't have a presentation on the handbook you all have seen it if you have any questions and comments we're happy to the clerk will be happy to take them down and we'll update them before there's final consideration

Catherine Readcouncilmember Peterson

Thomas Petersonwell I didn't see anything in here about a rule against sleeping through meetings not just kidding you I chair the committee I

Brian Lubkermanstaffdidn't know my microphone was on apology actually

Thomas Petersonwhat I first off thank thank you so much is this the first time we've had this kind of a handbook yes

Melissa ShinaberryclerkI did check other jurisdictions around I can tell you so Alexandria Falls Church Middleburg Percival Warrington and Waynesboro does have handbooks but no other Virginia jurisdictions have so so yeah this is a first-time creation for the clerk's office to do a handbook for board Commission and advisory committees we just figured it'd be a nice to have like a streamlined process and even kind of outlines like a lot of information for someone who's considering mine you know to apply to a vacancy because I mean we have information like some people don't know board of zoning you might have to you know an oath of office to be like appointed to that position also like well so I our office me and the deputy city clerk we worked with the city attorney

and and also mr. Hardin to work on this and then because there was a lot of things like mr. Hardin brought up a lot of the boards you know they don't know they don't have like a great weather cancellation policy so we just you know we relay like what we do for council and then you know just adding information you know closures you know city closures and such and then also too with the acknowledgement sheet we were hoping maybe that might cover like the conflict of interest for the you know as the city attorney put the lower boards so that way we have that signed form that they acknowledge that they're going to follow the handbook and such and then we would have that sign when they are appointed and

reappointed well

Thomas Petersoni think it's great to be involved in the race to the top and so congratulations for I think this is really an essential thing in having not only served on a committee but chaired one for a while. This is, I think, very important. I'm absolutely with Chair Feathers on this. This is something that's important. I have a question here that is, well, one thing that I didn't see is voting procedures. And they may be a little different between advisory committees and then you used the term decisional, There's another form of committee, commission, board, whatever, that is an implementing arm of the city. But for advisory, citizen advisory committees, my experience and my understanding is the way that that works is that at the beginning of each meeting, the body, the committee,

is asked to vote on the agenda for the meeting. and I'm that again that that's my experience and it's my understanding I just want to check and see whether that's a shared understanding of how these committees operate in terms of their voting procedures on agendas to

Brian Lubkermanstaffmy knowledge yes I have not done a survey of every single one but that would be my understanding what the correct process should be right and you You know, again, the clerk noted we've assembled the bylaws from the goal through all of this. The other reason this has been a good process, the goal through all of this is attempting to standardize bylaws across the various boards and commissions to the extent we can. There's some statutory, state statutory requirements that make them differ. But we're trying to standardize. We're trying to make things uniform. It makes it a lot easier to monitor, a lot easier to manage. I'm

Thomas Petersontotally in agreement and I think this is one of the areas that really can and should be standardized. But thank you for clarifying that that's the correct procedure. That being said, I think a modification of one thing in here would reflect that, which is in terms of how agendas are set, the language currently says that the chair and the liaison liaison develop collaborate to develop an agenda I think actually the the real process is they develop a proposed agenda and that proposed agenda goes to the body for a vote because the body has the authority to set that agenda

Brian Lubkermanstaffthat's a nuance and that's absolutely a correct statement and we'll update that

Thomas Petersonmaybe a nuance for those of you who have not shared one of these committees but for those who have it's it's an issue that is that benefits from clarity and I think actually gets to a slightly larger point, which is the question mark of whether advisory committees are independent. So as I understand it, for those committees, and this is something that would be laid out in bylaws, the city has the power of formation, the establishment of bylaws. It has the power of appointment and the power of coordination and support. the advisory committees are otherwise self-determined and independent in terms of setting an agenda and then going through procedures to vote, et cetera. But they do that in a way that's fully coordinated with staff.

That is kind of an operational thing, but I just want to check that because in terms of the decision-making that goes on, it actually, in some of these areas, makes a difference. And I think it would be good for that to be clear in the bylaws. and I'm not sure whether there's sample language you can draw upon to do that, but that's a point that I think would be very helpful to establish if it's not already.

Brian LubkermanstaffWe'll look at that.

Thomas PetersonYeah, and then maybe things have changed, but last time I checked, there was at least one committee and maybe more that actually didn't have bylaws, or rather what they had instead of bylaws was operating procedures that had been developed by staff in the absence because somebody had to do something to figure out how the railroad ran, right? So I'm taking it from this that where there are gaps like that, we're going to try to fill them with guidance here that would be standardized and that that would go through an adoption procedure of the bylaws, and I'm not sure how that works, whether the committees themselves have to adopt bylaws, but I think that would be helpful to clear up because, again, folks have kind of been feeling their way forward just a little bit here.

Brian LubkermanstaffAs the clerk noted in the staff report, I think there's only one committee currently that is still developing bylaws. So developing and having bylaws is different from having standard and uniform bylaws, but there's only one that has not set bylaws. I would love to identify it, but I don't know which one it is. So we will make sure that everyone has bylaws by the time we're done with this process. It would

Thomas Petersonbe great. And just know that there are times when things have been referred to as bylaws, But actually what happened was in the absence of them a staff liaison said well, we've got to have something So let's draft up some operating procedures here and they were declared subsequently to be bylaws But that may not actually be the bylaw process right

Brian Lubkermanstaffand the related issue is We have had situations where it is clear that Certain boards and commissions are not operating in accordance with their bylaws. So that's being reinforced as well. So all of the above

Thomas Petersongreat and then a really tiny point that i think i know the answer to but by we just asked for an amendment to the charter to compensate people who serve on boards and commissions and there was some language in here about not receiving compensation and i'm gathering that's those are not in conflict

Brian Lubkermanstaffthat's correct i think that's a different type of that's not compensation for the city for serving on the board of commission that's being compensated otherwise for certain well

Melissa Shinaberryclerklike if you volunteered like let's say you volunteer for our parks and recreation event but you're getting paid for it that compensation you would not be allowed to do because is

Thomas Petersonthat a conflict of interest not

Brian Lubkermanstaffa conflict of interest it's not a good look

Melissa Shinaberryclerkyeah yeah

Brian Lubkermanstaffso

Thomas Petersonit's allowed even though it's correct not optically correct acceptable okay all right well Well, so that's good to know on those points, but I do support some cleanup on all of these points to kind of fill these gaps and bring the consistency and what have you and then to clarify the status of the advisory committees in terms of their independent roles. And that's, again, different a little bit from those boards, commissions, et cetera, that have an actual city function that's designated. It would be good just for those to be clear and not blurred.

Brian LubkermanstaffSo much as with the discussion you had on the CIP on the last item, you know, assuming you all are amenable, if anyone has comments or suggestions, gentle comments and suggestions, maybe you could send them to the clerk and we'll incorporate them into what we hope will be the final version brought forward.

Catherine ReadThank you. Council Member McCullen?

Rachel McQuillenWill this also be made available to the public on our website or on our advertisements for board and commissions? Yes, I would like to put it on

Melissa Shinaberryclerkthe board commission website, like

Rachel McQuillenon the page, you know, so that way they can access it. Fantastic. I would love that. Would it also be possible to maybe include an encouragement, some words of encouragement to reach out to the chair as well to get to know a little bit more? I'm just taking some public feedback into consideration.

Melissa ShinaberryclerkYeah, I know we have it set up in Grant. saying like you know thank you for your application so maybe we could put some verbiage in there like please reach out to our office we can give them the information of the chair so that way they can have the contact information to reach out I think that would be fantastic thank you I appreciate that

Catherine Readcouncilmember Hall thank

Stacy Hallyou great job it was really really well done it

Melissa Shinaberryclerkwasn't all me I would like to knowledge to the staff liaisons supports and commissions

Stacy HallWell, everyone that

Melissa Shinaberryclerkparticipated in it, it

Stacy Halllooks like a very good final product or mostly final product. I think we just need to have a standard policy in the city. Do we capitalize the city or do we not? When we did our...

Brian LubkermanstaffWe

Stacy Halllearned during our city manager search that it should not be. It should be a small c.

Brian LubkermanstaffI was told today that I'm an old man in my view of capitalizing. capitalize things.

Stacy HallMaybe you're just wearing the new logos from the high school where it says the city on it and then it is capitalized.

Brian LubkermanstaffApparently there's a new AP style or whatever we're calling. I'll just give up. I'm going to go through the rest of my life being E.E. Cummings. Everything will be lowercase from now on.

Stacy HallI did want to thank Chair Feather for coming in and talking. I do think in addition to what Council Member said I think it's a good idea to encourage people in this document also to go to board the Commission meetings of the people that they're interested in pursuing thank you you're

Kelly O'Brienpublic commentwelcome

Thomas Petersoncouncilmember Peterson well on that point I very much agree I think there's in my and our experience with the board and Commission appointment process a little bit of unevenness in terms of of staff liaisons and even chairs being asked to provide feedback on candidates or asked to be actively involved in the outreach process. I know some who say that they've never been involved, never been asked, and I know others who do. So it would be good to bring some consistency to that so nobody's left out unless everybody's left out.

Melissa ShinaberryclerkYep, we'll take that in consideration.

Thomas PetersonThank you.

Brian LubkermanstaffMayor, I do have, if we're done with that, I do have one point of personal privilege and sort of advocating for one board in particular. The city's in desperate need of someone to serve on the Board of Zoning Appeals. That's required by law. We do not want the circuit court to simply appoint someone who could perhaps be a non-city resident to one of our boards. any members of the public that are watching at 1030 on Tuesday evening or for you all if you know individuals who might be interested in serving on the Board of Zoning Appeals it's a recommendation to the circuit court but we need to have a full board and it's been very difficult to fill so just as one board that has a vacancy we really would like to fill that one

Catherine Readokay duly noted that we desperately need to fill that excellent work done on this I do Council has expended a great deal of time and energy and invested in doing a better job, getting better at appointing people to boards and commissions. So, I mean, anything we can do to provide clarity, to let people know what the expectations are up front, to encourage them to attend meetings and to seek out the chair, all of this is excellent. And I do think that the more comfortable people feel that they know what is required, not everyone feels like they're qualified to be on a board or commission so the more that we can set expectations and let people know if you live here and you're a resident you should explore whether

or not the thing you're interested in is a an opportunity to give back to your community and let's try to make it inviting and not intimidating and i do think setting expectations is a really important way of doing that so if we are finished with this we can move on to the next item

Melissa ShinaberryclerkOur last work session item is a discussion regarding the revised City Council rules and procedures. I'm going to recognize Brian Lubkerman, our city attorney, to provide the staff presentation.

Brian LubkermanstaffSo very briefly again, this is a topic that you all have discussed previously. As you're aware, at the start of every council term, council adopts its rules of procedure. And most recently that was done on January 28th. There were some requests from individual council members that some changes be explored to the rules of procedure. The document before you is the version that has what staff believes are the changes that have been requested, and I'll just go through them very briefly. There's some typographical, grammatical that I won't go through. But primarily on page four, section three, we added city council's powers and mayor's role. And just by way of background, there was a request to include the provisions from the charter that relate to the city council's role and power.

And so we've included them here. So that language, all the language that's underlined comes from the charter. So that's the first part in sub A there. The other sort of substantive change is in 3C, which talks about the development of the agenda. And you see the language that has been added there. That was the language in some form, and you all may discuss that. There was consensus of the council that that was a process that was acceptable moving forward. So we included that. And that's really, in terms of major changes, that's really it. But we're happy to entertain any additional changes. If there's a desire by the council to bring this forward for consideration, we'll put it on an agenda for adopting these amended rules of procedure.

But that's the extent of the staff presentation. Just

Catherine Readfor clarification for those watching at home or who are interested, what is the role of rules and procedures vis-a-vis the charter?

Brian LubkermanstaffWhy do

Catherine Readthey exist?

Brian LubkermanstaffWell, the rules of – so the charter has sort of bright-line rules as to sort of the powers and sort of the conduct. The charter can be considered sort of the constitution of the city, for lack of a better analogy. Rules of procedures are the day to day implementation of many things that occur in a modern government where you have a chief executive, you have a mayor and a council with differing roles. So that's why the rules contain things like Robert's Rules of Order, for example, isn't talked about in the charter. And there's many other items in here about zoning ordinances, emergency ordinances. We do have emergency ordinances in the charter. city council appointees relationship with the city attorney tasking of staff

anyone of a number of sort of day-to-day implementation and procedural items that have been adopted by the council the one thing I will also say and I have recommended this in the past we haven't gotten to this point there are some jurisdictions are moving toward not having rules of procedure done by each elected body as they get elected but rather codifying them into their city county code which also means that they sit there and they're always there you don't have to have you don't have to reenact them every time if if councils there's no requirement that new rules of procedure councils are continuing bodies so if a council chooses never to amend or enact new rules of procedure the ones from previous councils just remain in effect that's another thing to consider

we do it because we think it's important for elected bodies as they take office and consider, if nothing else, reinforcing the rules and procedures that have been done previously. But there's nothing magical about this, and so we're happy to entertain any changes or suggestions. So

Catherine Readin your tenure, which is significant, have the rules and procedures changed significantly or from one counsel to another?

Brian LubkermanstaffWell, I will say in the 20 years that I've been city attorney, they've certainly evolved. I mean, I think they were certainly a little more disjointed previously. We've tried to update language. We've tried to make the processes a little more understandable, but you're still dealing with a document here that's 10 pages long. I don't know if anyone considers that efficient or effective. It's a good document to look at. I think, practically speaking, the processes work the way they're outlined in this document. But yes, there have been changes. There have been changes that are non-substantive. There are changes that are. I would argue many of these changes that are in here, dropping in things that are in the charter, that's fine.

it doesn't change anything. I mean, the charter controls anyway, but it does have language here then, you know, to the point about the powers, it does drop in the language that talks about council powers where we have some clarification on, you know, the mayor's role that had traditionally been in there. So, again, I'm agnostic on it. I don't know if it adds anything, subtracts anything, but it certainly clarifies language. so

Catherine Readwith the when the next council is elected and they also have the opportunity to then go and basically rework the rules and procedures yes every council does under our the way we do it every incoming council has the ability to go and retool

Brian Lubkermanstaffrules and procedures absolutely councils also have as I noted a few minutes ago councils also have the ability to decide that they want to get away from having separate rules of and just codifying them in the city code so that they're there you know forever and or until the city code is amended by ordinance

Catherine Readquestions or comments on rules and procedures councilmember Bates

Billy Batesyeah we last discussed this I think a few months ago or so but I don't you know the majority of the changes pertaining to the roles of the city council and mayor are necessary or they're not duplicative of frankly the you know the charter in one case but you know I think that it it doesn't seem that it would make a huge difference anyway one way or another you know I mean there are certainly some other more mechanical changes such as adding city before council in a few cases but you know those are just my thoughts

Catherine Readother comments councilmember Hall thank

Stacy Hallyou I got two separate emails from residents and I just wanted to pass along their suggestions the first one that the mayor can break a tie-on versus can't it may also be helpful to spell out how council can modify the agenda versus a motion or majority vote and then the other one said that that they you should spell out it when the council can overrule the chair it's in there but needs strengthening I don't know exactly where those items appear in here, but I kind of thought that they had already discussed that, but I just wanted to give them to

Brian Lubkermanstaffyou as the legal person. It does. I made a comment a few minutes ago about how this document is 10 pages long. I understand the comment about overruling and other. We have Robert's Rules of Order. And if we were to put in every circumstance, there are different requirements on votes. majorities, et cetera. On that, I respectfully suggest we just leave it. It's Robert's Rules. We deal with those situations as they arise.

Stacy HallTotally fine with me. Other people had bothered to read them, so I felt I should

Brian Lubkermanstaffbother to

Stacy Hallshare their thoughts on it.

Brian LubkermanstaffThat's fair. And as far as breaking the tie, again, that is not found in the charter. That comes from the Constitution of Virginia. That is a function of the fact, and folks hate when I say this, Some jurisdictions have what's known as a strong mayor. Some jurisdictions have a weak mayor, respectfully, Mayor Reed, where a mayor is either part of the governing body or not. In our case, the mayor is not a part of the governing body. So the Constitution of Virginia says on certain matters, the mayor cannot break the tie, and those matters are appropriations over $500, borrowing money, or levying taxes. So, for example, we've talked about this during budget. The mayor can break the tie on the budget.

tax rate that corresponds to that budget so there's those type of situations that arise

Amini Bonaniand

Catherine Readjust to be clear what's not really specific in here that is different from my role with the last dais is that I have no role in hiring the city manager except to sign the resolution that I do not have a role in boards or commissions either so just to be clear that those things are not out here but there is a difference in the role I have now versus the role I had with the previous council and I don't think people are aware of the fact that I am NOT part of these processes so I just want to be clear that this language does not necessarily transmit how the role of the mayor has changed with this particular council so I just want to be absolutely transparent and clear about the duties I no longer have under these rules of procedures any

other comments questions on this councilmember Peterson

Thomas Petersonwell and I actually am surprised to hear that because I've heard alternate views of that from members of prior councils but maybe that's a follow-up item I think I I have maybe a big picture question about the original drafting and the on the way drafting of the rules. Was there originally or has there been along the way a point at which the rules were drafted by going through the charter systematically and saying and treating the rules as an implementation document and then saying okay point one point two point three systematically here's how we implement each of these provisions and thereby creating a document that's comprehensive and systematic now

Brian Lubkermanstaffthe the the method for creating the rules of and they predate me originally the method the creation of the rules and procedures as I noted at the beginning were a recognition that if relied on the charter. A lot of the day-to-day activities, functions, functioning of government, functioning of the relationship among those of you on the dais and interaction with staff, there would be nothing addressing that. And the example I gave was things like tasking of staff, tasking of the city attorney, relation with boards and commissions, those type of issues. Many of those are not covered by the charter at all. So the original purpose, I think, of this document, saying this was to cover aspects that were not clear in the charter.

Because again, the charter is the constitution. It doesn't anticipate every action that needs to be taken by a government where you have a chief executive. So I don't think I would recommend, I don't know if it would be a good exercise to take the charter and go on this item, here's how it is implemented. I think that would result in a document that's fairly unwieldy, although I don't know what your opinion is of a 10-page document to begin with.

Thomas PetersonWell, I guess part of the reason I ask is that the document that we have has underlined in it some additions, but there have been changes along the way. We started with a document the beginning of January. I think there was another one. I don't know when it was. now and it's not just a matter of what's been added it's also a matter of what's not in it and I'm not entirely sure that the current document we have has you know been adequately reviewed reviewed just to say is there anything in the in the Charter here that really is missing that ought to be in here or that dropped out since the January draft because part of what's going on is we're adding things I think some things may have dropped out or been modified so

it'd be good to

Brian Lubkermanstaffwell I will tell you my drafting convention is I show additions as underlines and deletions of strikethroughs if you don't see a strikethrough nothing's been deleted the starting point on this is the January 28th adopted document

Thomas Petersonand then there was a document after that effort we did I think a retreat or discussion maybe it was April something like that was that the same document in that same

Brian Lubkermanstaffdocument this document reflects the notes that came out of that meeting and the consensus that I took from that meeting.

Thomas PetersonAnd then there was another meeting. When was it? July or some such?

Brian LubkermanstaffI thought the sequence was that we just, that was when we started sort of pushing this from meeting to meeting. I don't recall there was a substantive discussion. I'll go back and check, but I don't recall that there was any other substantive discussion since the retreat.

Thomas PetersonWell, there was a retreat at Blenheim and another one, maybe it was a work session. The one that was here.

Brian LubkermanstaffWe had one here in the work session room.

Thomas PetersonOkay.

Brian LubkermanstaffI think that was the July one, June.

Thomas PetersonOkay. All right.

Brian LubkermanstaffNothing since then. It's been pushed since then, just simply waiting for input and time given the length of the agendas.

Thomas PetersonOkay. Okay. And then so one of the items that I think was a topic of discussion, this kind of goes back to prior question here in a discussion of boards and commissions, is how agendas get set. And you mentioned Robert's rules of order, but am I correct that the agenda for the council meetings is set by a majority vote of the council? You

Brian Lubkermanstaffhave an item on your, well, there's two ways that the agendas now are being set, and frankly, one of them has come out of discussions that the council has had. So you have the discussion of future items, which is a new, with this council, item that's on every agenda. And we'll be doing it a little shortly here on the agenda, where council can see which items. because again there there are items that have to be placed on agendas given timing and the functioning of the government we can't it's unwieldy to consider convening the council to set agendas I think we would have meeting after meeting after meeting doing that so the agendas are set by staff I think there's some misconception as to what happens in the meeting with the mayor

those are staff suggested agendas we add and subtract we send that then to the council for review and you have seen that that's the process we've talked about here that you all have reached consensus on that you would get before it was finally published to get a copy of the agenda and an opportunity for 24 hours to weigh in on items that should be subtracted or added if you want to suggest what is added but the ultimate control over the agenda is that every meeting when you make your motion to approve the agenda traditionally that had been a formality I think with this council as we've seen there have been have been added and subtracted, and that's how the process should work. So that's the control that the city council has over the agenda.

Thomas PetersonTwo

Brian Lubkermanstaffmeans.

Thomas PetersonOkay, but that's, it takes four votes at that stage for the agenda to go forward?

Brian LubkermanstaffYes, and the mayor can break the tie, but yes, it takes four votes to approve the agenda.

Thomas PetersonWell, that's two different scenarios. That's either a three vote or a four vote. Which is it?

Brian LubkermanstaffBut approving the agenda is an ordinary matter. The mayor can break the tie. If there were to be a tie on the motion to approve an agenda or to amend an agenda item, the mayor may break the tie on that. That's an ordinary item. That's not one that the mayor is prohibited from voting on.

Thomas PetersonSo the council really doesn't set the agenda?

Brian LubkermanstaffWell, the council does, but if the council is tied, we don't want the agenda. We don't want there not to be an agenda. How's that?

Thomas PetersonIt's confusing.

Brian LubkermanstaffFair. I would argue that our structure introduces some confusion into voting processes and we could take that up with the individuals who set the city up as a city.

Catherine ReadCouncilmember Hardy-Chandler.

Stacey Hardy-ChandlerI feel like these might be two separate things about the voting on the agenda versus setting the agenda. This document, this version, this draft reflects my recollection of prior conversations of wanting to have access to the draft agenda ahead of time for input. That's reflected in here. Thank you for the work to do that. And it's certainly our responsibility to follow up with that since we asked for it. I think what you're explaining in terms of modifications to the agenda on the meeting day, those are other procedures. So I think there is ample opportunity to contribute to the content of the agenda before the meeting and at the beginning of the meeting.

Brian LubkermanstaffTo this body's credit, agenda setting has gone from what I think traditionally was you see it when it's posted for the public. And you see those items when it's posted for the public to now a more collaborative, some may disagree, but a collaborative process where you have multiple opportunities to weigh in on items that either are showing on future agendas or that you would like to show on future agendas or that you would like removed from future agendas. And we hope, because we are reflecting what we believe was the consensus that's developed out of this, that you all feel that you now have opportunities to weigh in on the agenda. But we are not recommending, we've never recommended, and I hope you all would agree, we don't think

it would function if the actual setting of agendas before they got to the point where they were even distributed and published required a meeting of council. I would argue we would grind to a halt as a government if we did that.

Catherine Readanother aspect of this too that i will bring up is adding things to the agenda on the night of the meeting that have not been advertised so when the agenda is amended and like the person running the meeting has not been notified that something's going to be added to the agenda is problematic as it was when we voted to counsel the country club hills connector which was added to the agenda it It had not been previously published, and we took a vote on it. Senator Adam Eben is introducing a bill for a second time to prohibit that in legislative bodies, that you cannot introduce something the night of and take a vote on it that night. You can add it to the agenda, but you cannot vote on it when there's not been public notice.

so I'm just saying as far as setting the agenda and letting everyone know ahead of time what's on the agenda there have been instances where things have been added the night of where I did not know they were going to be added and I don't think that's a very good way of conducting the business of the city either

Brian Lubkermanstaffthat's

Speaker 12fair that's

Brian Lubkermanstafffair we on the staff so very rarely there are There are emergency situations that develop. There are last minute things that develop. And we try not to do it. But we will add, I mean obviously you all have to vote to approve. But if something comes up that's time sensitive that we just didn't know about and if there's no special advertising requirement, you know, such as opportunities to obtain funding at the last minute or a requirement, you know, a cog or someone is asking for a quick consensus on something, we will add those to the agenda. We try to avoid that. I think the bill that's being proposed, it could be positive. I think it may have an unintended consequence of eliminating the possibility to do something where there's a requirement to act quickly.

Catherine ReadWell, the VML, because VML talked about this, and they have a carve-out for emergency things and things where it is identified that waiting would be detrimental. So it's not a hard and fast. What they're trying to do is to make sure that things are not thrown on the agenda the night of where the public has no notice and no opportunity. So VML is actually supporting that in its modified form with the carve-out for emergencies. But that is something that, you know, if it gets out of subcommittee, it will likely, you know, be something considered in the General Assembly this year.

Brian LubkermanstaffWell, and there's the last thing I'll say, and I'm sorry, I'm doing too much talking. There's certainly nothing ever to prohibit a council at any meeting from saying, you know, by vote, we want to add X to the next agenda. Right. Right? I mean, you all have that power. Council comments, somebody can make a motion to do something like that if you want. Now, there may be special advertising requirements for something. If you want something done that's a land use case or you want a rezoning or something, we certainly can't do that. But again, I think from staff's perspective, I think the takeaway is the process is a lot more iterative than it had been in the past. And hopefully you all agree that you have opportunities to weigh in on the agenda.

Understanding that there is a need for the business of government to proceed and not have meeting after meeting to do sort of respectfully the routine aspects of setting agendas.

Catherine ReadCouncilmember Peterson. Well,

Thomas Petersonjust to clarify, so it is within the authority of the council as it's reviewing and approving an agenda at the beginning of the meeting to propose changes to the agenda. Is that not the case?

Brian LubkermanstaffUnder current law? Absolutely.

Thomas PetersonAgain,

Brian Lubkermanstaffassuming there's no special advertising requirement to something that's being added. But you can certainly delete. I mean, again, the motion is there for a reason. not designed to be a rubber stamp. Often it is, but it's an opportunity to add, subtract, modify.

Thomas PetersonOkay. I think it's covered under Robert's rules. But past agendas and getting into acting on resolutions, motions, etc., Council members can propose amendments that have not been previously identified.

Brian LubkermanstaffTo resolutions and ordinances?

Thomas PetersonWell, no. A vote on a budget item. You could have a vote on some sort of an action here that we're taking, and we go through a regular vote. There's an amendment process, right?

Brian LubkermanstaffYes. There's exceptions, right? So appropriations resolutions,

Thomas Petersonfor

Brian Lubkermanstaffexample, if a number is on an appropriation, that's a maximum. You can't go

Thomas Petersonabove it.

Brian LubkermanstaffYou can certainly go below. On ordinances, you can vote to change language in ordinances provided it doesn't change the substantive meaning of that ordinance. So you can't introduce something completely new to an ordinance. You can't bifurcate an ordinance. You'd have to re-advertise. Resolutions, you can generally make changes to fairly freely.

Thomas PetersonOkay.

Brian Lubkermanstaffmotions you can change freely

Thomas Petersonall right so the resolutions and motions you can have amendments you can also do substitute motions

Brian Lubkermanstaffabsolutely okay

Thomas Petersonall right so that's routine as a part of

Brian Lubkermanstaffabsolutely happens

Thomas Petersonall

Brian Lubkermanstaffthe time

Thomas Petersonyeah and but that is not spelled out in the rules per se because that falls under Robert's rules of order correct right

Brian Lubkermanstaffcorrect okay

Catherine Readso let's just bring it back to these particular changes which is what we're here to discuss the rules and procedures Edits modifications have been made by Mr. Lubkerman. Everyone's had an opportunity to review them. If this is something that the council wants to move forward with without changes, is that a consensus?

Brian LubkermanstaffOh, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt, but if you are going to adopt amended rules, we would suggest we put it on for the 9th and take a formal action.

Thomas PetersonRight. Council Member Peterson? MR. My notes indicate that we had discussion around, and I thought agreement on item 3C, which is adding a comma and two words, and counsel, to the consultation process. MR.

Brian LubkermanstaffIn what line? I'm sorry. Line C. MR. Well, I'm sorry. There's.

Thomas PetersonFirst line. item C first line and cons well in consultation with the city manager I mean anywhere in there you could throw in a comma and City Council

Brian LubkermanstaffYou know, it's an interesting point because the mayor doesn't prepare the agenda. The staff prepares the agenda and meets with the mayor to go over the agenda. the point. I don't think it changes anything to add city council. It'll just query what that looks like. Is that an email to council members saying?

Thomas PetersonBut that's a discussion we've already had in terms of the method. It just establishes that there should be and is expected to be some sort of consultation, and that could happen by more than one version. I would note also that I think there was an addition on a separate but similar issue, which is scheduling of additional meetings where per se language was added, quote, unquote, in consultation with the city council. So to be parallel, it would seem to me we would do the same thing on the consultation on the agenda.

Brian Lubkermanstaffso the the consultation that occurs on the agenda I would think is the the version that goes to the City Council before it's finalized

Thomas Petersonit may or may not be the point is that generally speaking with the addition of that would indicate is that there should be some form of consultation that the council should be included in some fashion in the consultation on the agenda

Brian LubkermanstaffI'm open to suggestions

Catherine Readbecause the council is a body of six people it's not one or two people on the council it's the body of six so if you want a consultation with the council there has to be a mechanism a platform or some procedure for consulting with six people so when you say the council are you talking about the council as a body acting as a body or are you really saying consultation with council members because that's different.

Thomas PetersonThere's language in here already that says in consultation with the council about scheduling additional meetings. That hasn't been spelled out per se here, but there's some additional ways that that can be done and probably is done.

Brian LubkermanstaffThe consultation on setting meetings, though, has more importance because that involves your individual schedules for being available for...

Thomas Petersonitems on the agenda are of importance to council members also that

Brian Lubkermanstaffis that

Thomas Petersonso it just seems to me to be this is a kind of an innocent point here the council can and should be included in consultation in some manner whether it's two by two one by one whether it's sending out a futures whatever the case may be it is a simple thing to say the council I

Brian Lubkermanstafftake your point and I would suggest that that is occurring now by having the discussion on the futures lists having ample opportunities to weigh in. I think the change of the language probably makes no significant difference. I don't see any reason why it can't be added.

Thomas PetersonI would like to suggest that it be added because it can only help. It's not going to hurt.

Brian LubkermanstaffCorrect. You are not, though, as I understand it, suggesting a change in what has seemed to be working recently as a process for the agendas.

Thomas PetersonThat's a separate matter. If we want to fine-tune that process, we can certainly do that. But this just establishes that there is a process.

Brian LubkermanstaffOkay. I'm happy to include that language if the council would like. Okay. The silence is deafening. Well, the silence

Catherine Readis deafening, isn't

Brian Lubkermanstaffit? I will include it in the draft. I

Catherine Readthink

Brian Lubkermanstaffit'll be fine.

Catherine ReadI think it's all fine. I think we just change it and add it and figure it out on somehow on the other end.

Melissa ShinaberryclerkOkay, if we've done with this.

Brian LubkermanstaffDo you want me to? Oh, I'm sorry. I was going to say, did you want me to bring this back on the 9th? But I'll wait.

Catherine ReadYeah, Council Member Brates.

Billy BatesYeah, on that note, and, you know, this might be less rules and procedures and more for potential code of conduct. but i do you know and i do um think that the uh futures agenda meeting or future agendas meeting at the end is preferable to um to what else has happened um i mean i don't think that there should be surprises on the dais in terms of the agenda and um you know and i i do understand of course that sometimes things do come up last minute that you know that staff has as well but if there is you know if it is something that is not you know an emergency or last-minute item then you know I don't think that that should be something that is a last-minute surprise and I do want to add that and I do

personally try not to rely on hearsay but rather my personal firsthand experience when I differ from my colleagues up here but I was on the previous council myself and my recollection is that appointments and whatnot did go a bit differently and you know and perhaps not everyone felt that but my sense was that the mayor was more involved in the discussions at any rate in terms of those appointments. But, you know, in terms of the rules and procedures and anything else you want to put in there, I, you know, again, I don't think that the additions in terms of the roles of the city council and mayor are necessary, that's consensus I'm not gonna die on that hill but I don't think that we need to add anything you know beyond that in terms of that conversation

Catherine Readwell put no one wants to die on this hill mr. Lubkerman anything further that you need from us

Brian LubkermanstaffDecember 9th yes additional change we talked about this evening and I'll circulate in advance if anyone has any additional and then we can put this seems like there's

Catherine Readthere's consensus for that so with that I will now reconvene the meeting and first on the list and the reconvene meeting I believe is future meeting topics mission Barry

Melanie Zippstaffso we'll go over December 2nd and December 9 for December 2nd work session we have presentation and update from the housing and Healthy Communities Advisory Board, and then an update on the Urban Forest Master Plan project, and we will remove the legislative program from that agenda. As of right now, that's all we have from staff for that agenda.

Catherine ReadGood. Questions and comments on future meeting topics? Council member Amos and then council member Hall

Anthony AmosI only have one question and maybe it's just because it'll come up later for February 10th I just didn't see anything underneath that is there for zero reason

Melanie Zippstaffwe just

Anthony Amosokay okay so Wow keep it as is I'm cool

Brian Lubkermanstaffdon't make any vacation

Thomas Petersonplans

Stacy Hallum sorry may i yeah council member thank you i see that we are scheduled to discuss on january 6th fire station number three concept design presentation um with uh council support could we try to include improvements to the current station in that interim phase at that time or is that too soon to be able to come up with some ideas or is that a different conversation that needs to be had before we can have a conversation so

Melanie Zippstaffum january 6 is a placeholder for fire station 3 okay because we had a conversation with a company who could help us with a PPEA process. They were not going to get us information until the end of January. Okay,

Stacy HallPPEA is actually my other question at the same time, too. Yeah,

Melanie Zippstaffthis might actually get pushed down until we get that PPEA information, so it may get pushed to February. Okay,

Stacy Hallwell rather than pushing the other, could we maybe work with President Salik and others that need to be discussed to try to figure out what we could do in the interim for some of the things that we discussed before, sleep hygiene and all that? We could engage with Chief

Melanie ZippstaffO'Neill. It's

Stacy Hallhis department.

Melanie ZippstaffYeah. And how he can.

Stacy HallOkay, yeah, we had just given some ideas to President Salik. on here that i didn't see is the willard sherwood when will that be brought around for us i know we had received some information on um from mr harden on costs to other considerations things like that i had a lot of questions about that and i was hoping for a opportunity to be able to delve into that a little bit further December 2nd looks open

Brooke Hardinstaffby voiceso following the council land use approval on October 14th the project moved into solicitations for bids from subcontractors so a guaranteed maximum price can be prepared and so that's that's where we are at this moment we're anticipating in January receiving that guaranteed maximum price so we'd anticipated the next time coming back to City Council would be when we had that cost information so we could go through that with the council review final plans but

Stacy Hallonce we have that I don't quote me because I'm trying to remember there's an off-ramp potential but it's like 14 or 30 days or something after that max bid comes in for the maximum price thing okay so then maybe I'll take my questions offline and just send them all to you but when you had provided us with information on proposed costs for tear down and rebuild of green acres or and then I had asked some questions about like what were those specific breakdowns of costs and my understanding is that we were operating or staff was operating off of the FCA that the school board had done which would bring green acres up to specs as far as what it would be to become a school again which would so I'm not trying to

you know kick the can further I'm just trying to understand is this the best choice I recognize there were feasibility studies done there were all these other things done there over the years there was outreach and I like the project I don't like the project now given current financial constrictions restrictions constrictions whatever the word is at the moment but it seems to me like

Jenna Sandspublic commentwe're just kind

Stacy Hallof like this is like another George Schneider trail where it's just we're just hoping that the timeline runs out where a decision has to be made and people are rushed into something and it's not a happy kumbaya moment for a lot of people it's more of a feeling forced decision making process

Brooke Hardinstaffby voiceunderstood um at this point what what we're trying to deliver final cost so that to your point so it's very clear as to what that is because we've provided estimates now for you know a couple of years at this point but but to have you know a very clear this is the final cost is that cost within the 56 million dollars that's been allocated in the cip or not and um are and are there any other factors at that point for the council to so the council can make a decision we could certainly have lead-up conversation to that and there can be a work session you know and a separate consideration but just in terms of kind of where we are in the process that is what we were thinking made sense but if you have questions about the estimates

that were prepared we can certainly respond to that maybe if you've got those maybe the best thing is to send them we can respond and it looks like we need to have a work session to talk through any of that we're certainly happy to do a work session whenever we're just you know we're trying to be careful and in the use of everybody's time and provide you with the next set of information right

Stacy Halland I certainly don't want death by meeting or death by any means but I also feel like there has been enough concern over where we are on this financially with looking at what we're doing with all these other areas looking at the CIP and the fact that we would need to go out for bond in February or March or whatever it is to start doing some of these things so I think it's it's a hard conversation to have without knowing more information without knowing what our proposed tax rates going to be without seeing the city managers budget I mean there's all these different buckets that are filling up very very quickly so to me there's merit in it but I guess I can start with sending my questions and then we can go

and see if others have questions as well.

Brooke Hardinstaffby voiceWe can certainly respond on that to the council as a whole, and if it looks like we need to have a conversation, certainly do. What I would anticipate is that the next question will be, okay, well then what's the number for the actual project? And so that's why we were trying to get to that.

Stacy HallYeah, and I can see the merit in that too. I think the other big question is what, kind of like I asked, what will become of the George Mason building if we don't do anything for the next couple of years on the fire station? What will become of the Green Acres building if we aren't using it in another two years? I mean, have there been thoughts on where that would go, what that would look like? because I think decommissioning a building is a big deal without knowing a future plan for it or having an idea of how it will be utilized. And I think that that is a concern for especially the residents who live right there, but also for others in the city who have been closely following this. So I know I'm kind of pivoting and going in different directions here, but

Brooke Hardinstaffby voicethat's how

Stacy Hallmy brain works. That's

Brooke Hardinstaffby voiceokay, and we can certainly respond to that. There were some general recommendations made when the Green Acres Task Force met, you know, now 10 years ago, on what the future at Green Acres might be. I believe there was some feasibility study activities that happened within the last few years, but I would want to confirm that. But I think as you're aware as council is aware the future of green acres is certainly Guided by the covenant that the school board has on green acres and so that would kind of be You know decision point discussion one as to whether or not that covenant the school board intends to Keep it there is there discussion about it moving somewhere else about that over the years but certainly for anything to move forward you know

formally that would need to be addressed but we can we can follow up on that in more detail if that's if that's an item

Catherine Readokay thank you

Brooke Hardinstaffby voicesure any

Catherine Readother comments councilmember Bates

Billy Batesnot a huge deal but I recall that there was We had tentatively had it on the future agendas list a while back, but a potential leasing agreement for the gas lamps over on Breckenridge Lane, I know that's something that the community there has been invested in. And I understand certainly it's kind of unprecedented and kind of new territory there, so I certainly understand it's a complex issue. when that might

Brian Lubkermanstaffso and it may be my fault for not having updated we received a request from the HOA to hold they decided we had conversations with the HR HOA about what a license agreement might look like and there are some financial considerations on the part of the HOA they asked if they could have time to take it to their entire membership I think their annual meeting us at some point during the remainder of November if it hasn't already occurred. So as of right now, we're on hold. We'll wait to hear back from the HOA. If they'd still like us to proceed with a negative staff recommendation for council consideration, we'll certainly bring it forward. We're not holding it up. The HOA asked us to hold.

Billy BatesAll right. Yeah, thanks. That's very helpful.

Thomas PetersonCouncil Member Peterson? On December 9, what does it mean for an introduction of an appropriation resolution for the George Snyder Trail to be on consent?

Melanie ZippstaffThat is the additional concessionaire funding. CTB meets on December 10th. So this is just preemptively put on there so that once if they approve the funding, then it can come forward in January.

Thomas PetersonAnd what does it mean to come under consent?

Melanie ZippstaffIt's just the introduction of the appropriation resolution. All appropriation resolutions are a two-meeting or three-meeting sometimes if we have a work session on it. It gets introduced on consent. All appropriation resolutions get introduced on consent. And then it gets put on a public hearing at the next regular meeting.

Thomas PetersonSo this is not the consent agenda?

Melanie ZippstaffThis is on the consent agenda, yes.

Thomas PetersonI understand that, but I'm just not seeing other things showing up on consent that are being teed up. So that seemed a little different to me.

Brian Lubkermanstaffwe don't know every consent agenda item at this date I mean I think we have an idea of some of the ones that are coming yeah

Melanie Zippstaffand there actually are a few that are not on the future list but on are on the tentative agenda one is an ordinance amending chapter 102 utilities pertaining to wastewater lateral repair and replacement charges and connections to public utilities another introduction of an ordinance for the loose leaf supplement of the city code which is done annually another one is the introduction of an ordinance amending the chapter 38 environment related to the noise regulations

Melissa Shinaberryclerkthat's it

Melanie Zippstaffso all introductions of ordinances or appropriation resolutions go on consent and then the next regular meeting they become a public hearing

Brian Lubkermanstaffand I do have one other that'll be on the anticipated list we had talked in the past about an ordinance dealing with regulating passing of stop school buses similar to what the county had done we're working through the mechanics of but that will be appearing on a future agenda, assuming the council agrees. But we'll show it at some point. We just haven't gotten to the point of designating a date. And that's an example of items that are just kind of floating in the ether that we'll put on a futures list as soon as we have an idea.

Thomas PetersonActually, I think we talked earlier about in February, February 10, because it looks like we're not booked, that Chief Pedrozo would come back and talk to us about the follow-up on the gun resolutions.

Melanie ZippstaffIt's on the work session for February 3rd.

Thomas PetersonAh, there it is. Item number four. Is that it? Great. Thank you.

Catherine ReadAnything else on the futures list? well all right then we'll go to the manager's report out and as if do you have something for us

Melanie Zippstaffthe only reminder to the public next thursday is thanksgiving if you didn't know but really it's to let you know that there's no trash pickup on thursday trash pickup for thursday will be thursday and for i mean trash pickup for thursday and friday will be on friday november 28th that's all i have

Catherine ReadWe'll start with Councilmember McCullough.

Rachel McQuillenThank you. Just a few things I want to share with the community. Tonight, we have the privilege of welcoming Dan Alexander, our new city manager. I want to proudly acknowledge the commitment, professionalism, and teamwork this council demonstrated throughout the extensive search process. Selecting the right leader for our city is one of the most consequential responsibilities we have, and I'm grateful for the unity and the diligence that brought us to this moment. I'd also like to thank our interim city manager, Melanie Zipp, for her hard work during this interim period. Also, congratulations to our city police department for earning their Kalea accreditation, a national benchmark of excellence in policing.

This recognition reflects their years of work, training, and dedication to transparency, accountability, and community-centered service. I'm also excited to welcome the professional rugby team Old Glory DC to Fairfax City. I've already purchased my season tickets. I'm looking forward to a great rugby season. I don't know anything about rugby, so it's going to be very exciting and new for me. Finally, I want to take a moment to recognize that November is Military Family Appreciation Month. As someone who grew up in a Marine Corps family and moved around the world as a military child, the sacrifices these families make, the long separations, the constant transitions, and the friendships formed and left behind at every duty station.

To the military families who serve here and call Fairfax City home, thank you. Your strength and resilience are felt throughout our community. I also want to wish everyone a safe and wonderful Thanksgiving. Thank you.

Catherine ReadCouncilmember Bates.

Billy BatesI just want to welcome Mr. Alexander as our new city manager. I'm very excited for him, and, you know, we've heard great things, and I believe he'll be an excellent city manager. And, you know, he has very extensive public service experience, but also very extensive experience in law enforcement, and I think that will be a very valuable addition to city leadership. Thank you. Oh, and a happy Thanksgiving to everybody.

Thomas PetersonCouncil Member Peterson. Well, I also want to congratulate and welcome Dan Alexander. We are all truly looking forward to working with him. And I'd like to echo the remarks of Council Member McQuillan and Bates, but particularly underscore what Council Member McQuillan said, which is this was a long process. The council has worked very, very hard, and I know it is frustrating to the public not to be able to have the transparency that they would like to have on personnel matters. It's one of those areas of confidentiality that we accept in our duties as elected officials, and it causes frustration, I know, because people don't know what is happening and what isn't happening in the search process,

by its nature is oftentimes a long one, but I do want to assure everybody that this council worked very, very hard, very, very systematically, and very collegially through that entire process, and we're just delighted with the way it has transpired, and we're absolutely looking forward to the opportunity for the community to meet Mr. Alexander. He has extensive experience working with the community at different levels, and that certainly Significantly to our decision in terms of his experience and his ability to reach out and work with the community So we're very pleased about that the other thing I would just say is There is always much to be thankful for on Thanksgiving And this has been a difficult year. I think it will continue to be a difficult year for many people and

while we do have a lot to be thankful for and to count our blessings the truth is also often a particularly acute point in time for people who are in need in whatever way, whether it's the stress of instability and dislocation or other things. I say this partly. My wife is an ordained minister and does pastoral care work and crisis intervention, et cetera, and the holidays are peak times for all of this. what I would say is reach out to people for the holiday don't take it for granted anybody and everybody needs to know that you care about them and if and it's the time of year when we all need to stick together and help each other out and never take anything for granted and more than ever the holidays is a

time to do that so open your doors if you would thank you

Catherine Readcouncilmember Hardy Chandler

Stacey Hardy-ChandlerI just like to wish everyone a happy Thanksgiving

Catherine ReadCouncilmember Hall.

Stacy HallAt the risk of being redundant, I would also like to welcome Dan Alexander. Very excited. As Councilmember McCullen said, it was a very long process. We've worked very hard, and we are very excited to what's to come in January. I would like to invite everybody to cheer on our, excuse me, our Fairfax High School football team at our next playoff game, Friday night at 7 p.m. at West Springfield. Come and cheer on your lions. Leaves, as everyone knows, these are in the roads, on the sidewalks, in your way. So I am asking if we can put something else in the city scene, but just a reminder that if you leave them on your yard in the right-of-way, our excellent public works staff will come and take them away.

You don't need to put them in the road. You don't need to block the sidewalk. There are certainly ways you can put your leaves out there that are not going to impede traffic and make kids that are walking to school or biking to school have to be further in the road. So please be considerate of that. We'd like to wish everyone a happy Thanksgiving and also remind you to still feel like it's Thanksgiving on Thursday. If you do go shopping on Friday, try to still treat people like you are thankful and appreciative of all that they've done for you the day before. And I do also want to welcome back our government employees to the roads. been busier for sure. Glad to see everyone back at work. Have a little more patience. I now have a 16-year-old

driver out there for a week and a half, so thank you.

Catherine ReadCouncilmember Amos?

Anthony AmosI'll echo everyone's sentiments on welcoming Dan Alexander to the city. Looking forward to working with him. Also echoing the welcomes for Old Glory. Rugby's close. Oh yeah? Oh yeah, and they have a networking event tomorrow. I think it's close enough for football for me to enjoy, go for it. Happy Thanksgiving to everyone. I will be leaving in about three and a half hours to Roanoke for the Governor's Housing Conference. So fun updates. I will keep you all posted on that. Two other things I just wanted to highlight just because I got a couple questions about them. Hypothermia prevention will be coming back. So just keep an eye out for that for those who may need those services. Check in with facets. They'll be moving around

different churches, including my church. We typically host in January, February time frame. And also, I've gotten some questions about grass enforcement. Grass enforcement does not happen during this season. So, during winter, typically they kind of expect the grass to die down. So, sorry. So, happy Thanksgiving.

Catherine ReadAll right. Well, thank you to the staff that made presentations tonight. Thank you to Jennifer Rose, who stays until the bitter, bitter end. I'm looking forward to the small business holiday month this year. Happy Thanksgiving and welcome to Mr. Dan Alexander. We will see him in January. And with that, I am adjourning at 11.22 p.m. on Tuesday.

Stacy HallThank you.