City Council Work Session

Catherine ReadGood evening. I would like to call the work session of April 7, 2026 to order. I will now recognize Ms. Shinneberry for the first work session item for discussion.

ShinneberryclerkOur first item is the discussion on third-party event sponsorships. I'm going to recognize Stacey Summerfield, our Parks and Recreation Director, for the presentation.

Stacey SommerfieldstaffGood evening, Mayor and Council. I'm joined up here tonight by our Special Events and Athletics Manager, Mitzi Taylor, and our Assistant Special Events Manager, Deanna Payne. And we are going to invite police up here to join us, too. I apologize, Natalie, just to answer any additional questions. She doesn't have to answer anything right away, so that's good news. So we're here tonight to talk about the third party event policy. And so these are events that take place within the city and many of which are supported by the city but are not organized by the special events crew within the Department of Parks and Recreation. So to start, we're going to go back actually a little bit to our back to 2011.

There were a number of resident complaints about the quantity of road closures at the time. This was a time when road races were very popular. They have declined in popularity since then. But the city was a very popular destination to have road races because it was very easy to work with us to close roads. And for that reason, there were a lot of road closures. And so at that point, council took an action, which was to reduce the number of road closure events to limiting to six each year. So in 2011, this action was taken. And so since that time, we have limited it to six each year. Those six spaces, five are currently filled, so you'll see them at the bottom here. We have the Turkey Trot, the Ride of the Patriots, the Sweet Mile, which is new.

It's the one-mile race that takes place along with Chocolate Lovers, the Asian Festival in Maine, and Labor Day Car Show. So at this time when we began limiting the number of road closure events, we also put into place a framework to manage third-party events within the city. And this has grown a little bit over time, but it stayed largely the same. So we ask that groups submit an application 90 days in advance. There is an application fee that is reduced for nonprofit groups. We do ask each group to carry $2 million in coverage. Our risk management office here in the city can help groups find a way to get that coverage. We ask that the city of Fairfax is listed as additionally insured. For these groups, we do have venue rental fees, which are very reasonable.

I mean, they're much reduced from our private rental fees. We asked them to develop an action plan and an overall plan for the event. Once MITSI has all of those things from an organization, that information goes out to the events management group, which is represented by police, fire, Office of Emergency Management, Public Works, and the fire marshal's office, and Parks and Recreation. So everyone is able to review the event application and weigh in as to whether or not they are willing to see the event go forward. So once the events team has agreed and approved, then event fees are processed and we move forward. Currently within the city, there are some established annual third-party events.

And so these are third-party events that over time have become annual. There are eight of them. Five of them include road closures. So there are eight events, but only five fill those six slots for road closures. The Sweet Mile, which is, there are two road races on this list, the Sweet Mile and then further down you'll see the Turkey Trot. Those are both events where the supporting agency covers all the costs. So you'll see a $0 city expense there, and that does not mean that the city does not support them with labor, but those costs are reimbursed by the organization. And then of the remaining eight, we have the Asian Festival, the Ride of the Patriots, Fairfax Pride, Juneteenth celebration, the Labor Day car show, Fiesta Fairfax, and the turkey trot.

And so the total expenses over time, we've kind of come to these agreements where the city is supporting these through direct overtime hours. The total cost of those events is just over $88,000. So the costs that you see listed there are direct costs. So that means those are the costs of the overtime hours. does not include indirect costs such as wear and tear to equipment for the city. We don't include any sort of rental rate that we would normally charge for the use of equipment such as barricades. And we don't include offsets for rental revenue loss. So when a group is using Old Town Hall, that number does not include the rental revenue that could have been recouped through a private event.

So you'll see the list of direct costs that you see there. You know, sanitation services, public work support, all of those overtime hours. And because these events take place on weekends and are in addition to people's staff duties, they are all at an overtime rate. Then there's the indirect cost listed there as well, which we do not include in the cost estimate. So there is the wear and tear on infrastructure, equipment use. There's also, I think, important to note here under indirect cost, there is a cap to the actual staff capacity to support these events. We only have so many staff hours of overtime. time and for example the right of way crew which is Lucian and his team who do a lot of the road

closures they work every single weekend of the year. They do not between a number of events and different things that are occurring as far as work in the city there is just a capacity on the amount of these events that we can support in actual hours. So for this reason one of the we're coming to you tonight as a group to ask to kind of restructure the city's third party city supported There are a number of events that take place within the city that are one-offs, that are individual events supporting them. I will say within the time that I've been here, the Virginia Spirits group came in and did a festival at Old Town Square. There is an upcoming performing arts festival that takes place in veterans.

Those groups are covering all of their costs. These are the city-supported events that we're asking for a restructure of how we kind of build a framework around those because they have just slowly accumulated over time through agreements for supporting different things, and there's never been any real framework around them. And so we'd like to put that framework into place. It will help us establish a better budget management process. One of the challenges for us as a department is that none of these expenses are budgeted into our annual budget. And so each year we tend to overrun on overtime, but we're able to make that up because our staff diligently works for city-supported events, so we can offset those costs through sponsorship dollars.

And we also tend to exceed our revenue projections, so that helps us in that way as well. But these are not budgeted. And the other challenge is balance and equity. I think it's very public to other groups within the city what different groups receive in third-party event support. And there's a lot of interest from other groups in getting the same support for road closures, different ways that we can support them. One of the things we went backwards a little bit when we did was to kind of break down, you know, our events and programs. So looking at how do we define our events first, how do we figure out the levels of the events, and then how do we build a framework around this? So to rewind back a little bit, we have a lot of events and programming with the city.

We have a very robust schedule within the Department of Parks and Rec between special events and our cultural arts programming and everything else that we're doing. programming is something that's occurring regularly. These are small items, usually things like the community cleanups, the old town hall community performance series. These do not require a ton of outside of our department support. But then there are events, and these are higher intensity events. They occur at a designated time in the calendar year, and they require more support. And within the events, we've developed kind of three different levels to look at them. We've got the level one events, those are 500 and below. This is something

that's easily manageable within our department. It's not a huge lift for staff. It doesn't require any outside services. Once we reach level two, which is the 500 to 2,500, then we're starting to coordinate with other departments. We're seeking other city services. Whether or not we need police or EMS is evaluated on a case-by-case basis. And then at level three, where we're getting 2,500 people, which is a lot of our events within the city. This is requiring, you know, the city events team. It's requiring police and EMS support. For these larger events, we're developing an incident action plan where we have to have three meetings in advance to develop that plan and then one post-event. And that's the minimum of what we're asking for.

And a lot of times we're exceeding that because safety is a real priority for the city. And a lot of things have happened nationally that have made us, you know, have to reevaluate our events. So, how do we move forward? We, as the staff, we've come up with three potential pathways forward, but as a council, you have the option to adopt one of these, to adopt a hybrid of these, or to choose something totally different. So, the first one is that we just continue operations. We continue supporting these special events. There's no cap on the budget. We just continue to support the needs as they come along. The challenge here, I mean, the pro is that we continue to support these events because they are great for the city.

The challenge is that there's just no way for us to budget what the expenses are going to be. New events are coming to the city all the time, and it's very hard for us to say no when we're supporting another event. There's no framework for us to decide which groups we're going to support. So that moves us on to option two, which is possibly a formalized, we call it a grant program, but some sort of supportive framework by which we support different organizations in getting these events off the ground. The goal would be to perhaps not have to long-term and forever support these events, but to give them a launching pad to, you know, get their feet under them, get a really cool event off the ground, figure out a way to become budget

and economically sustainable through event fees or things like that, and then to get sunsetted out of the program. there are challenges with this program which is that it's a big staff lift for staff to take in all these applications review them how do we determine afterwards if the event was a well-run event or not is it do we give people a couple of years to try to build an audience there are a number of pieces of really developing the framework around it that is the challenge the pro is that it really gives us a way to be more transparent in the equity of who is getting sponsorship who is getting support from the city and how we are budgeting for this. So we have a set pot of money. We're able to move forward and have that there.

And then our option three. We move to a system by which third-party events are self-funded. So over a set number of years, whether that's one to three, we work with these groups to create a way for them to self-finance their expenses. Then, you know, we would continue to operate under the guidance of no more than six road closures a year. We would probably still need to set a cap on the number because no matter what, even if every group were to come to us and say we can pay for everything that we need from the city, there's still a cap on what city services we can provide. So we would still have to create a cap, but we would be able to limit the financial burden on the city, reduce that budget line as the pro, definitely.

reduce our administrative workload. The cons is, of course, you know, these city events are something that the, these third-party events are something that the city is known for, and so it might reduce the number of third-party events that we're able to have in the city. It definitely also, you know, doesn't allow for that startup money for those new events. And so those are kind of the three options forward. There's, of course, you know, potentially a hybrid in there. It's not just one of these three, forward for the city. I think I've hopefully done a good job of explaining this, but why this matters to us is really we have to consider our budget. These things have been added in gradually over time, but they've started to stack up

to a really high number. We want to continue to be able to maintain city service levels, and while we're doing these special events and they're great, everyone who's there on the weekend has a job that doing during the week for the city. And so, and it's typically not, you know, to be at a special event, it's to, you know, maybe be building roads or setting up light signals or doing any number of things. We wanna promote equity and transparency too. One of our biggest challenges right now is that we continue to be approached by people who would like to host events within the city because they've heard about this great deal that a number of people are getting and they would like to know how to get this deal as well.

And so, one of our challenges is really how we say yes or no to that and be equitable in that. you know we want to offset the long-term impact on city resources and support sustainable event management because along with these 30 third party events we have a lot of events within the city that we're already doing we did as part of this process look at all of our neighbors regionally and locally there are no you know there are no formalized agreements to support third party events with any of our neighbors we have heard that there might be some handshake making up some of the expenses as part of an old deal, but there is no formalized event. We are the only city that has this process where we're just providing all these city services.

Included, we did put some links to just all of these groups that we looked at, all of these comparison jurisdictions. So from here, what we're asking for is council feedback based on staff's information, We've included police here tonight because they are deeply impacted by the staffing for these third-party events. So we very much appreciate the chief and deputy being here tonight. And so we are looking for a way to move forward, create a framework that helps us determine how to allocate funds to this and sets either a number of funds that we're going to use or perhaps gets rid of those funds entirely. and also just create a system that's very transparent for groups that are coming in and wanting to participate in these third-party events in the city.

So our goal was to kind of zip through the presentation. I apologize if I went too fast, but we are happy to answer questions.

Catherine ReadWell, thank you for the presentation. Questions from the dais. Council Member Peterson?

Thomas PetersonI'm sure there will be a lot of questions, but to zoom in to the end, just to help with the slide that is comparing some of the jurisdictions around us. If you could just kind of characterize where they are in terms of option one, two, and three. And if I understand correctly, you said we're unique because we're the only one that's not requiring some payment for services, but I may have misunderstood that. Can you clear all that up?

Stacey SommerfieldstaffWe are. I apologize if I zip through that.

Thomas PetersonNot at all.

Stacey SommerfieldstaffSo we are supporting these a lot of our neighboring, all of our neighboring jurisdictions. Their official policy is that if you are a third-party event coming into the city, you have to pay for your services. So there's different, you know, deposits, ways that that is done, but everyone is paying the city for those services. And we are paying for the services and not requiring any repayment from the group.

Thomas PetersonSo does that, just to follow up, does that mean functionally they are option three?

Stacey SommerfieldstaffYeah, they do have a, I cannot speak to whether or not they have a cap on the number of events they allow, but they are the option three. So people can come into the city, do a third party event, but they do have to pay for the services they receive from the city.

Thomas PetersonGoodness, good to know. Councilmember Hardy-Chandler?

Stacey Hardy-ChandlerSo I just want to make sure it's fair to say this statement that this became a question because of the quantity of closures. That was kind of remedied with the six cap. And now you're coming to kind of tackle some of the administrative transparency equity factors that affect maybe the quality of what we can offer or the impact, right? If that's the case, option one is not what you would prefer, correct? Because that's maintaining the status quo.

Stacey SommerfieldstaffIt is challenging for us administratively to say yes or no to groups as they come forward because there isn't any framework for us to have any basis to say yes or no.

Stacey Hardy-ChandlerAnd

Stacey Sommerfieldstaffthen it's also very difficult for us to budget.

Stacey Hardy-ChandlerSo you wouldn't prefer if we decided on option one, correct?

Stacey SommerfieldstaffI would not. I guess I'm going to have to answer that. Can we just, like,

Stacey Hardy-Chandlereliminate that? I mean, because it sounds like there are some challenges, and I appreciate offering choices, but it doesn't. Continuing with option one is the reason why you're coming before us. So.

Stacey SommerfieldstaffYes. I mean, it's not an enormous amount of money in the scheme of things, but it is a big challenge administratively, and it's something that continues to grow, And so we'd like to build a framework around it before it gets larger.

Stacey Hardy-ChandlerAnd to that end, I want to thank you for not only addressing the direct costs, but the indirect costs. And I think that's something that can be kind of invisible in some of these circumstances. For option two, it sounds like there could be some variations on that. I didn't see, and maybe you included this, that option two would also have a limit. and would it help in terms of thinking of a hybrid, maybe a lower limit? And I ask this question about option two because I really like the sort of partnership spirit that's involved in that, that it can be seen as a collaboration between an entity and the city. So just maybe speak to that a little bit more.

Stacey SommerfieldstaffYeah, and I think this, you know, I called it a grant program loosely because people will be coming to apply for money from the city. I don't know if really that's what it is, but the goal would be to, I think, you know, different festivals within the city have really blossomed because of the city support. And so to be able to give groups that opportunity while also helping them work towards financial independence as a group would be a great way for the grant program to operate. be no end to the cutoff for funding support. I think there's a lot of ways to structure that. As a staff, when we sat down, our thought was to kind of develop a pot of money and then support these events and let them really grow within the city, but then also work towards

not being so reliant on city resources long term, which would still put us as an outlier because we're still supporting these city third-party events.

Stacey Hardy-ChandlerAnd just a quick follow-up. I think the concern is the support reducing over several years while expenses are likely to increase over those periods of time, making it even harder maybe to hold those events. So if two makes us an outlier, do we know, we know the policy on our neighbors and what they're doing regionally in terms of option three. Do we know the success of the, and the key phrase that stands out, should provide full recovery? Right?

Speaker 17That's the key

Stacey Hardy-Chandlerphrase. That's the main takeaway. Do we know if there's any information about maybe the diversity of events that they host or anything about sort of the quality? Is it sort of just big organizations that can do that and we're attracting maybe smaller? Do we have any of that sort of qualitative information?

Stacey SommerfieldstaffWe can get that data. I cannot speak to it right now. I will say I think a lot of them are longer running events, you know, that maybe have a deeper well to draw from and have longer term sponsorships and more developed community ties to get that support. And so I do think there are a lot of challenges to starting a third party event without really like a private business behind you or just as, you know, as a group of people who want to bring, per se, a cultural festival to the community.

Stacey Hardy-Chandlerconcerned about smaller groups and maybe providing them an opportunity as an outlier that they might not have access to with our neighbors. I guess my final comment would be to think about a model where we can pilot it and get data and that it would be agile enough to make adjustments if the data supports it later on. rather than locking in one, you know, per se, but just saying, let's, you know, pilot this model, collect data on the kinds and not just, you know, standard measures of success, but also are we reaching maybe groups that, to your point, can't draw from a deeper well, so to speak.

Catherine ReadYeah.

Stacey Hardy-ChandlerThank you.

Catherine ReadMr. Alexander and then Council Member McQuillan.

Daniel AlexanderstaffThank you, Mayor. Council. I think you know one of the things to keep in mind is that we want to create some framework so I you know we struggle with saying that we have prefer an option but you know I've heard the analogy used before you know playing without any any boundaries or guardrails or without a tennis net so to speak right that's what we're doing right now so fundamentally we need to get to a point where we have an approach and a program that council is aware of understands and signed off on. It could align very well to a budget year. We could decide that we have different tiers or a hybrid approach where we say we have strategic partnerships both in the short term and long term. We've agreed that we're going to embrace these partnerships and continue them forward as part

of the budget process with an application and some accountability built into that in terms of what we're funding. We certainly could run a competitive process too which would then allow us to maybe experiment with some of those other options in community to say okay let's let's try this for a little bit and and go from there what is also unique about this and we really have time to think it out but i think it's worthy of discussion is all of this is centered in primarily one place in terms of the third party right and so even from a funding perspective we have the option of a special district down here that might be an option for us to consider as we look at where we draw resources. Part of the concern about this too is that we're kind of the victims of our

own success in a lot of ways. And we've expanded footprints. So it's not just the incremental increases that we've seen. In a positive way, we've tried to expand the footprint to make it easier for us to manage and to make the events better. So I think largely in framing, we just want to make sure we have an agreed upon established process. We certainly could establish strategic partnerships through the budget process and competitive partnerships through that process. We just really want to make sure that we're being clear, transparent, and consistent in the way that we approach these. So thank you for your indulgence.

Catherine ReadCouncil Member McQuillan.

Rachel McQuillenHas economic development had a chance to weigh in on this at all, by chance?

Stacey SommerfieldstaffIt is only Colleen's second week. So we did meet with her and talk about this presentation and I know that she's evaluating and looking at the special events within the city, but she didn't, of course, have time to kind of formulate an opinion given the shortness of the time.

Rachel McQuillenExcellent. I just think that that's really important, obviously, in this discussion, is to ensure we understand exactly how either the options would affect consumer behavior and attendance, because I want to ensure that if we're doing this, that we're continuing. WE ARE COMMUNITY REALLY IS USED TO THESE CERTAIN, THEY LOOK FORWARD TO THESE EVENTS. AND IT'S PART OF OUR CULTURE, IT'S PART OF WHO WE ARE. SO I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE FULLY UNDERSTAND EXACTLY HOW THAT'S GOING TO AFFECT THINGS IF WE PICK ONE OF THESE OPTIONS. SO I THINK THAT WOULD BE REALLY HELPFUL TO HAVE THAT INFORMATION.

Catherine ReadSENSE MEMBER HALL.

Stacy HallTHANK YOU. THANK YOU FOR THE INFORMATION. I KNOW THIS WAS PUT TOGETHER IN A RATHER QUICK TIMELINE FOR A VARIETY OF REASONS. conversation about it. I have some questions and then some comments. Is, so looking at these options up here, are staff required to attend these or do they choose to participate? Like for the police, is it we need you to work this weekend because we have this event or is it there's an opportunity for overtime who would like to work and if not we can fill in with Herndon people or county people?

Speaker 20Right now because these are considered, we have the group, like Stacy was saying, of city sponsored events and then these are city supported events. These are items that are mandated for our officers to work. So if they move to a self-funded option to where they're not city funded per se, most of those currently for us are voluntary assignments that they can sign up for. If they don't fill them, then it's The scale of some of these, if the staffing is not filled, the event can't take place. So right now we mandate that officers work these larger scale events. We go through a process where they can sign up. We do a voluntary window where we open the signups. But then as it gets closer, we have to mandate that these are duty assignments.

Daniel AlexanderstaffOkay. I think the reality from a de facto standpoint is that when events get large, they become city events. So any outsourcing or third party special detail rates that you try to apply really don't because you're still having to manage the event from that perspective. And oftentimes spots go unfilled, they've got to be filled from a public safety perspective. So I think it's really important. It's a great question because I think it's really important to understand that when events get to a certain size, they become frankly de facto city events.

Stacy HallOkay. And then the same thing would apply to Lucian who I had no idea that his staff works every single weekend. that optional or is that optional over time?

Stacey SommerfieldstaffI think it's a sign up first for you know who wants the overtime and then it's an assignment past that point. It's the same for us with parks crew for overtime for most of the city departments where we're running overtime. We do try to give people who want the overtime the opportunity to sign up first and then at the end of the day we we do assign some people we have to assign some people in fill spaces.

Stacy HallOkay and when it comes to our Um, is that my understanding is that if someone works the Saturday of fall festival, that they then have comp time to be used at another time, does that apply to which of our employees does that apply to with regard to the employees that are typically at events such as these?

Stacey SommerfieldstaffIt depends based on people's, you know, exemption, whether or not they have their overtime eligible or not. And so most, um, we're asking people to come in on a weekend and fill these spaces. So most of those hours are overtime hours that people are eligible for and using.

Stacy HallOkay. Do they have the option to take comp time instead of overtime? Yes. Okay. Yes. People do

Stacey Sommerfieldstaffhave the option. And sometimes newer employees will do it so they can build up some time off. But most of the time people do want the overtime.

Daniel AlexanderstaffAnd I think it's important to say here that we have to follow our FLSA standards. Totally understand that. And I know I just want to make clear from that perspective that exempt employees can work as many hours as we like. Yes. We certainly have to account for overtime and comp time.

Stacy HallYes. Okay. And this is a fairly specific question, but the information that had been sent regarding the most recent conversation about the third-party event had some hourly rates over a three-year span that looked to be a little outdated. I don't know how old the hourly rates were, so I know that we've kind of talked about what is a traditional hourly rate and those kind of things. But are those, when you're coming up with these numbers here for the 88,410, is this assume X rate for every, and I understand we have a timekeeping system that is getting a little more updated these days, but is this just an expectation of X rate for every police officer that's there or Y rate for every EMS or paramedic that's there?

It

Stacey Sommerfieldstaffis a best estimate because people's rates do vary based on how long you've been here, your seniority. And so it depends on if you pull perhaps for an event like a senior fire marshal or a newer fire marshal. I know that Mitzi and Deanna used an average of those rates to determine the hourly rate for each like public works, fire, police. And so we did use an average. So there is a range in there.

Stacy HallOkay. But those averages, is that the same average you've been using for six years now? Or is that because the three years that I saw in that? It

Speaker 20was just for those three years.

Stacy HallJust for those three years. Okay. And was that recreating it from three years ago? Or was that using the rates from that initial first year? It actually was using the

Speaker 14rates from last year.

Stacy HallOkay. Thank you for clarifying that. And then when it talks about, not exactly here, but like an example for Vienna, staff overtime beyond regular hours. how we're doing it, does that mean that if our employees have already worked 40 hours and now they're working 10 hours on this Saturday, is the expectation or the current method that we cover those 10 hours at their base rate and then the third party would pay the overtime or the expectation that they would be expected to pay the full 10 hours at that hourly rate, that is overtime rate?

Stacey SommerfieldstaffMy understanding is that it is the pay the full overtime rate for those 10 hours. I think outside of regular staff hours is more so like handing in your application during the week, doing different things you might be doing with staff to plan the event while they're on regular hours during the week, was my understanding.

Stacy HallAnd I honestly, I think that's reasonable. We only have so many staff and they can only work so many hours in a day, week, month, et cetera. I do want to point out, I guess, some of the other perks. Not, you know, I was kind of hitting on some of the questions and concerns, I think we don't have numbers for, and I would love to see if we can get them either through the revenue office or somewhere else. But what are we bringing in, right? When people are getting tired of the lines of the food trucks and they decide to go into a local business instead, what additional revenue did they receive that day versus an average Saturday where there's nothing going on? You know, how much did we generate meals tax on that day? I think what is

very, I'll call it frustrating, is a lot of the food trucks that come in for this, for Rock the Block, for all the other events, they're not registered here in the city. They're registered in the county or West Virginia or some other places. So the meals tax that's generated on that day in the city does not go to the city. The only time they pay the city meals tax is they eat at a city business. And I don't know if there's a way that Richmond could help us work on that to do something because the event is being held here within our jurisdiction, but it would seem to me that maybe there's another way to work with these food truck companies or these other vendors that are coming in that are generating sales that we could somehow benefit. I feel like that would help

to offset some of these other operational costs, whether they're hard or soft costs that we're not currently calculating. But I do, again, want to really point out that there is a benefit to holding things here. We just don't know what that number is. And, you know, it, Councilmember McQuillan and I talked about this before, too, you know, does it make sense sometimes to do these over two days, to encourage people to stay in a hotel overnight, to eat at our restaurants, you know, to go out to breakfast before they show up at the next event,

Speaker 14you know, to

Stacy Hallend it a little bit earlier or, you know, kind of flex the time so that we're encouraging people to stay and move around our city. I do also know from rock the block conversations that many of our local businesses, other than a couple of the key restaurants that are right along the main strip, because people are not interested in shopping for clothing or shoes or anything else during that time. Like, they're there for music. They're there for fun and entertainment. And so as much as I would think they would stop by or sidewalk sales would be great, it's not a huge revenue generator other than what's happening in that confined area. And again, it's not city meals tax that's being generated. So those are things that I would like to see if we could try to estimate, ask, you know.

And I'm also curious, you know, are the businesses that are being impacted, are they happy with this? Is this something that they look forward to every year or they're like, oh, man, this thing's happening again. What, you know, I got to close my shop early because nobody comes here. Or is it, wow, this is the time that this person or this group always comes in here and shops. You know, they know they're going to be here every year for this. So again, I know some of these are not really quantitative numbers that we can get, but just trying to maybe talk to the shopkeepers, shopkeepers, that was a really old school term, and just kind of understand maybe what they do. Capacity, I think, is always going to be an issue.

I think we are just not big enough to have this huge excess of staff that just sits on demand to be able to help out. So I think while I understand that we want required city officers at these events, and I'm not telling the police chief how to do his job by any means. Let me be extremely clear on that. I do wonder if maybe there are other avenues or departments or people that we can reach out to just so we're not completely burdening our officers or our staff at all times.

Speaker 1That's something that we've discussed, particularly in preparation for this meeting, and with respect to other partnerships that we have, which is being able to partner with other police departments, starting with GMU, which we already work with on a regular basis, jurisdictions obviously that we could do that. That's establishing some type of memorandum of understanding and agreement where we would lay all that out and there would be an understanding and we would have a requirement in those situations where we would have a certain we wouldn't just want other officers working the event right there would be a certain number or ratio.

Stacy HallCriteria.

Speaker 1Those are things that are obviously open for discussion and we would look to do depending on the direction that we take. And I just want to bring emphasis to one point which is the transparency piece because I to get lost in the conversation which is when we talk about like some events that are sponsored or sponsored that are receiving the benefit of the city providing these services really at no cost other people are coming to the table saying hey we would like that and it creates a you know just when we have our discussions it's an uncomfortable position that I know Ms. Summerfield is in to have to say no to somebody when they're looking at someone else getting that benefit so but we're ready to respond in any way we'll definitely be providing

do to keep it safe.

Stacy HallThank you. And that was actually, my next question was kind of the third party limited to six. It seems like we, you know, we did add, I think the Sweet Mile was new this year or last year? Relatively new?

Stacey SommerfieldstaffThis, yeah, this last February, but it is relatively new. It is within the six road closures. So as you'll note, there's only five road closure events, even though there are eight cities, city-supported, although two of those eight cover their own costs. So both of the, both of our road races cover their costs.

Stacy HallYeah, and actually the other thing that I guess I should have realized but I didn't really put two and two together is the lack of ability to rent out for a wedding, let's say at Peak Fall Festival or sometime in May when we're doing another event. I hadn't really thought about that, especially with our new renovated building that will be coming online at some point in the next year. So I know you're looking for information here and kind of a yay or nay. I'm leaning towards some sort of hybrid between two and three. I think that based upon, let's say, number of participants or people that show up, I think that we do make money off of things, right? There is an added benefit. We just don't know what it is.

So I think that it's not as easy as just saying, well, it's a total cost of $48,000 for us, right? It might look like that. It might be much higher when you take into account the depreciation on the vehicles, the barricades, the fact that hourly rates are varied. No discredit to that. Just curious how it was calculated. So I'm at some sort of hybrid between the two. I understand 2,500 people is a big number. I'm also amazed at what our city staff does and how they were like, oh, 500, no big deal. I don't know if 2,500 is that definitive line. is where when you need the paramedics, when you need the police, when you need this and that. And if that's the case, that's the case. I mean, that's what it is. But I think we

want to encourage events like this. We want to be known for events like this. And I think that we, I personally would like a little bit more information to somewhere settle between two and three. And again, if we can try to figure out what these things bring in, maybe there can be a tipping point at which we go into tier three versus tier two of what we're willing to cost recover or not. But I don't know that we or you have enough information to totally make a decision. And that's concerning. The other thing I did want to point out, you know, last year I did ask specifically about the third party events. And it looks like there was a $14,000, I forget what they called it, in-kind donation. And that was on certain

events. And then I was surprised that then the remainder of that was not actually collected. I kind of just thought we were doing a $14,000 in-kind donation for events of X size. So to see these numbers in their entirety now, I think is a lot more concerning is not the right word, BUT I OPENING I GUESS I THINK BOTH TO US AND TO THE THIRD PARTY PEOPLE RIGHT I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT NUMBER WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS SHARED OR PROVIDED OR REALLY KIND OF PONDERED SO I KNOW I'M TALKING A LOT I'M SORRY BUT I I THINK THERE'S SOMEWHERE THAT WE CAN TALK BETWEEN TWO AND THREE IN MY OPINION BUT IT'S GOING TO NEED MORE INFORMATION SO

Catherine ReadTHANK YOU

Thomas PetersonCouncilmember Peterson. That's kind of where I've been going also. I think some sort of a hybrid would be worth looking at. I also think that the ability to do that on a trial basis or a pilot basis gives us flexibility in terms of that. I agree with what Councilmember McQuillan suggested. I think initially Councilmember Hall has said more about. It would help to get some additional data here. One of the questions, for instance, is whether jurisdictions that have functionally this option three format going, whether in their view, whether they have data or not, that has deterred attendance or hurt them in terms of the strategic objectives of the jurisdiction in terms of tourism, et cetera. I don't know.

It may be that that's had no effect whatsoever, but if there's been an effect, it would be good to know about. On the hybrid option, the one thing that seems to me worth particularly focusing on is calling this a grant mechanism of some kind. But if I understand it correctly, that could be used as or some mechanism could be used as a way to have an option three but then selectively and strategically have flexibility and make exceptions for certain cases like for folks who are coming in for the very first time or who have, you know, less means but are nonetheless really important, et cetera. It gives you a flexibility mechanism to deal with here. associated with that. From my perspective, it would be good to receive something back

that we could at least get started at so that we do something and not nothing and we don't let perfect be the enemy of the good here. And to City Manager Alexander's point, I think it is time we stop playing tennis without a net. So I think we've got enough here to figure out how to take a next step and I'd certainly advocate in favor of that. Councilmember McCullough

Rachel McQuillenI agree that we need a framework for sure piggybacking off of Councilmember Hall's comment about the meals tax I do wonder if we can adjust permitting or do something along that lines to make up some of what catch some of those fees that we're missing from not getting the meals tax or other things that's the kind of information officials to really know what the return on investment, you know, could be in doing that. Like, okay, we lose the meals tax if we bring in all these food trucks, but if we have a permitting fee that is adjusted to compensate for some of that, that could, you know, maybe balance that out. So that was my thought in bringing economic development into the mix was more of looking

at this and really trying to figure out a solution that, like a hybrid, as everyone is mentioning here, something along the lines to still be able to help out the newer events or smaller events or provide a grant in some way, but for the ones that are self-funded or the ones that we recognize can be self-funded, I think that more information is just what we need to be able to say which way we want to go with that.

Catherine ReadCouncil Member Bates, any thoughts?

Billy BatesYeah, I mean, on the one hand, we certainly need to have some kind of control over how this expense might grow in the future. On the other hand, looking at especially Fairfax County, and Vienna Falls Church are kind of unique in that they're a bit smaller than the city, even the city of Fairfax. But Fairfax County on the other hand, they have developments such as Reston Town Center, Fairfax Corner that completely run their own events and have their own private security, you know, large mixed use developments that we don't have in the city right now. So without the benefit of that, I kind of see having something beyond what the county has and what the other jurisdictions have is sort of in lieu of just not being able to

have that. And I think it's in a lot of ways preferable because it allows for smaller organizations that wouldn't be able to do that elsewhere to have a platform to bring us things like the Asian Festival or, you know, that's somewhat of a larger event, but Fairfax Pride, etc. So I think I am leaning toward having some kind of framework as has been laid out to have a look at which events we want to cover and how much we want to cover. But as was mentioned, there are, I guess, a lot of different ways that we can do that. certainly have faith in staff to look into how we can do that and as you know according to what's been laid out here and look forward to further discussion on that

Catherine Readcouncil member hordi chandler i

Stacey Hardy-Chandlerjust want to add to the final point council member bates made you've heard sort of our questions and concerns i think it's a great idea to take that and devise a proposal one is out. No one wants that. But I think you can develop a proposal that starts to address and integrate some of the answers to the questions. But you're not going to have all of the answers. And so a mechanism for evaluation of that I think would be helpful, like I said, for modifications. I also think that some of the more specific things, that's not for us to do, but I think, well, I'm curious what is in the action plan that entities have to submit, because I think some of the things that we prioritize could be integrated into that action

plan that's submitted, and that be a part of the decision matrix, right? So if there are, let's say, a weighted benefit hypothetically for 50% Fairfax City food trucks or something like that. That becomes a part of the decision-making matrix in terms of what's submitted in the action plan. I'm assuming that that's a template of some sort, but that can also be a tool. I just want to also comment on the presence of the police. I get the certainly concerned about the safety, and that is something that we take very seriously, and our events are very, very safe, and I think people feel very safe at them. I think the other piece of it, though, is we had a presentation not too long ago on community policing,

and so I think the presence there has value in a lot of different ways, And I've seen people respond very positively to officers who are present, kids, you know, having that be a part of the experience. So I just don't want to narrow that as just something that is utilitarian. But there is something about community that is important to having our officers there and present and talking to the crowds and smiling at kids and all of that. but I think there may be enough I sometimes feel that we leave you with maybe more questions than answers but I think you may have enough to at least start to formulate a draft of a proposal that has the flexibility in it to adjust what that hybrid looks like based on some

of the priorities you've heard tonight so I hope it's helpful.

Catherine ReadIt is thank you.

Stacey SommerfieldstaffOther questions or comments?

Catherine ReadOkay. One of the things I would like to discuss is the new events. So Pride, Juneteenth, and Fiesta Fairfax were things that we wanted to do because we had never celebrated Pride or Juneteenth or Hispanic Heritage Month. There is no overarching organization like the OTFBA with organizing the Asian Festival on May. The town of Vienna has Viva Vienna, which is a three-day festival that takes place and is run by the Vienna Rotary Club. It used to be a town event, and then the Vienna Rotary took it over because they make money organizing and running it. So they have booths, they have vendors, they pay the bill to the town, and then the money they make, they distribute it because they're a service club.

But they are the entity that, they don't do that anymore. I'm C. Kelly. They don't pay the town. They don't pay the town. Oh, so they just make the money. but they are the organizing event for Viva Vienna they took that over and so they are the organizer for things like to your point about new events there is no organization for Juneteenth Pride or Hispanic or the Fiesta Fairfax because Elizabeth and Estuardo Rodriguez got the vendors and sort of were the organizing people that got pulled back together with the help of your staff and Pride, the first one we did was with George Mason University and getting help from them. Juneteenth was Mount Calvary Baptist Church, but there is no organization like the Rotary Club of Vienna

that can be an organizer if we put a framework in place that says some organization has to go and find the sponsors and do the organization. So we have to ask ourselves as a community, things came along because we wanted to celebrate something specific that the city of Fairfax has never celebrated before but if we go to a framework and a guideline that says well we're going to have the structure and the organization is going to come and seek this but what if there is no organization then do we say that as a city well if no one comes forward then we just don't do pride and we just don't do Juneteenth and we just don't do Fiesta Fairfax Mr. Alexander.

Daniel AlexanderstaffGreat question, Mayor. Appreciate it. I think it would be, you know, not unlike some, it's probably a bad example. We do Fourth of July, right? It's a city event. So at some point, and again, in the plan with Council, we say these are the third party, these are on an annual basis, the events that we run, and Council makes those choices about where we want to venture into, and we may be supporting it on our own. Someone may come along later, but it's a city event. So I hate to oversimplify it, but I think, you know, again, on a consistent basis, we make decisions on where we're spending tax dollars to support events, whether we're doing it on our own or whether we're doing a grant arrangement

or support of external organizations. And I think we have that discussion in a meaningful way. Instead of just things happen and they grow over time and...

Catherine ReadI agree. It can't be haphazard. I mean, this is... We're going to do this for the fourth time this year. And it started out with an idea and some people and some vendors and some things. The city did the heavy lifting. Parks and Rec did the heavy lifting. We had some support from different places and different organizations. But we do as a community have to decide what we value. And if we don't have someone like a Rotary Club say or OTFBA say we're going to do that, then are we just not going to do that? We have to ask ourselves that question. like the Labor Day car show to your point they've been doing this for a long time but it started out in Clifton and I think it was the Clifton Lions Club

and I think they're still but you know after all these years the event practically it was huge last year it broke all records because people now want to be a part of it because it's long established but these three nascent events that we have that are just starting their fourth year has no such depth And so that would be the only thing I'm bringing to the table is we as a community have to decide if you have a framework, how rigorous is that framework going to be, or do you just say we're not going to do these events if no one steps forward and raises their hand?

Speaker 1Yes, Chief. I mean, to me, one of the aspects to all of this is if it's for profit or not, right? And so, you know, one of the events we have coming up in the near future is they generate a lot of profit. They have a lot of vendors. They charge fees for those things. So I think that, to me, is one piece to consider with whatever direction we go in. And the other thing I want to talk about is speaking to the question about other jurisdictions. You know, having come from one of those jurisdictions, I can tell you that what the people that organize these events are looking for, they'll because if it's for profit they're okay paying for those services but they want some level of predictability and so one of the things

that we would hear is one year it would be we want these many officers and this is your bill and then next year it's gone up for some reason and it's not expected and so it puts them in a position because the day the event is over the very next day they begin planning for the next year's event and And so it's hard for them to get that surprise bill at the end. So whatever direction we go in, if there's almost like a menu of sorts, some type of fee structure or whether it's a cap, something that I would imagine that's something that they would be looking for to be able to plan, especially if we go in a direction where they were going to be taking on the cost. That's all.

Catherine ReadSo I think the feedback I'm hearing is with all this information, a proposal of some kind, some framework of some kind that we can consider more specifically all the things that we discussed, taking all these factors into consideration, what it might look like. And guardrails and structure, but maybe flexibility. Again, to your point, the Rotary Club of Vienna is a nonprofit. They take every bit of that money and they give it away. Every penny of it gets distributed in the community and beyond the community because they're a nonprofit. Again, without something, an organizing body like that, I don't know. And there is no Northern Virginia Pride organization. And Mount Calvary, you know, we had,

there was another committee that helped in previous years too. There was a Juneteenth committee, I think.

Stacey SommerfieldstaffWe do still have the Juneteenth committee. For those three events, we do have a group of community members who assist with those events. They are not supported by an organization that would help them be able to raise funds. I do think there's a possibility where we develop a framework and we're able to look at groups revenue and develop a cost share model where we're going to, you know, based on the revenue that you're pulling in, the city is asking for this much cost recovery. So I think taking all of this information that you've given us, we can come back with a good framework for what that looks like that is manageable.

Catherine ReadAll right. Sounds like. Mayor, just before. Yes, Mr.

Daniel AlexanderstaffSo we'll bring that back. I do want to acknowledge the OTFBA and the work that they put into this. They've been great partners. We did spring a bill on them real quick, and they pivoted very quickly with us. And so we're looking forward to a very successful event coming up here in the near future with the Asian Festival. And we certainly will engage community around this as part of the process.

Catherine ReadI'm glad you brought that up. I do want to acknowledge the OTFBA and the people in this room who worked so hard to build the Asian Festival on Maine because it is one of the marquee events in this city, and there are people who come from all over, and I don't want to undervalue the effort of the volunteers who put this on every year. And so putting up a framework means all of us can budget better. I mean, I think that's going forward. It's kind of like if we know what the targets are, if we know what the bill is, then we can work toward that starting the day after this festival is over. So I'm hoping that will be a help to this event going forward. That is our goal. Anyway. All right. Thank you so much.

We appreciate the presentation. And Ms. Shinneberry, who do we have next?

ShinneberryclerkOur next item is a discussion update on city services and support for older adults. I'm going to recognize Leslie Abashian, our human services director, for the presentation.

Stacey SommerfieldstaffAll right, let's lay it.

Lesley AbashianstaffMake sure, okay. Got to make sure. All right. Are we ready? Tonight, our presentation is to talk about how the city of Fairfax supports elder adults and why it's important. I really appreciate the opportunity to engage in this conversation. David Bowie once said, aging is an extraordinary process where you become the person you always should have been. the reason I say that is because we're all or most of us are looking forward to retirement at some point to enjoy the fruits of our labor to do something different you know to have more time to do the things we like but at the same time those as we get older there's impacts you know natural aging there's things that sometimes slow us down and we need extra support and I think that

though again i get i'm really excited one day i get to retire when i'm 95 years old i also want to know that my community is there to support me if i need support or my family needs support and i think that that's part of what we're talking about tonight is how the city supports its resident older residents but also keeps bringing them to the table and and lets them know that we value them as part of community. Tonight I've brought, this is kind of like the dream team. You know, I wanted you guys to hear from the people that really are doing the work, that are connecting with older adults, that are making those older adults feel valued and get their needs met. I've got Jason Skadron. He's the village coordinator. I've got Ann Chase. She's a

senior center coordinator. And then I've got the community response team. I've got Malika Walters, who's a licensed clinician, and she's a clinician for the community response team. I've got Jay Davison, who is the community paramedic for the community response team. and then our newest member we have Carrie Carrie Johns who is the police officer for the community response team so all these individuals you're going to hear from at some point and it'll probably be about time where you're tired of listening to me so it'll be good thing okay the the topic of aging is important it's not just important for the residents that are getting older but it's also for those family members that are caring for those

residents and also for those of us that are preparing as we get older and when i was thinking about when i was first asked to do this i was thinking about just some trends some key things to think about of why you know this is an important topic and a couple things i want to point out that residents age 50 and older or they make up a third of our community of the city and eric foreman who is the guy i go to for any kind of data he says in the next five years or so that that's going to continue so they're a third of our population um almost 89 percent of the residents 65 and older who were applied from the i mean who were a part of the last census own their homes can be accompanied by increased needs and some vulnerabilities.

In FY25, 78 residents from the city of Fairfax got support through older adults. And the Adult Protective Services engaged with 24 adults who there were abuse and neglect concerns that they needed to look into. so those are you know adults that have needed some assistance and engaged in the system not every resident is going to require the same level of need I mean same level of support because sometimes you know there's individuals because of your your ability you have resources maybe you live closer to your family maybe your health status you know some of us have better genetics than others health status and so not you know on here you see um 3,766 residents that are 65 and older all 3,700 are not going to need the village for instance but there are people

that really need and value the village and need the you know need those resources and so that's something that we have to really pay attention to they're not one size fits all but there's always a time when one of each of us is going to need some extra support or somebody in our family that we love is going to need extra support. The city survey, the community survey that was done about a year ago or so ago, I guess a year or so, yeah, one of the top human services issues was the lack of affordable housing. And I think that one of the things that, you know, affordable housing, why it impacts older adults, because we have folks in our community that want to downsize, and they really can't afford it, even though they own their homes

because they bought their homes 40 years ago, and the prices have kind of changed since then. But we also have older adults in Northern Virginia that are either precariously housed or unhoused. It enerves me to think that anybody in Northern Virginia is aging into homelessness, but that's happening. And there's going to be more as the baby boomers come. You know, they're really thinking that we're going to see more of that because of the cost of living. If you look at the stats up there from the 2025 regional point time count, 280 residents in northern Virginia now, we're talking about an area that's resources, it's fairly affluent, 280 adults 70 and older were unhoused on that night that they caught counted and add to that 26 adults

um 80 and over were unhoused and i just i just put that out there because um you know when we talk about affordable housing for instance it hits people at different at different ways um but i I think it's something we need to pay attention to. All right. And one of the other things I wanted to point out is normal aging for most of us, maybe not all of us, but for most of us, it comes with changes in financial situation, medical and physical needs, and also life transitions. And one of the things I would note that, again, And even though some of us, maybe me, you know, we count down those days when we can retire, that you can afford to retire and spend time with your loved ones and kind of get out of the rat race of work,

that's still a huge transition because you go from a chunk of your life living, you know, and connecting with people within the workforce, and then all of a sudden you're thinking, okay, what am I going to do with myself, and am I going to be able to afford it? and so you know one of the questions i would ask the city is that how do we engage our older residents as they transition to retirement and do we still make room at the table for them and that we don't take it for granted that even though again people may be skipping into retirement it's still a transition uh all right how do we find out that somebody in our community needs needs assistance there's a different there's a couple different ways um that a lot of times the human services committee will hear about

somebody in the community that's struggling or maybe needs a little bit more support um and i rely you know other city uh departments and the community members pay a key role in that But, you know, sometimes you're a little hesitant to reach out to the city and say, hey, my neighbor, I think they're struggling a little bit. Can you help us? Can you help them? Or, you know, a loved one, you know, saying, hey, my mom, I'm really worried about her. Can you help them? You know, because some is a natural tendency, you know, to think, okay, I need to do it myself. I don't want to reach out. I don't want to let somebody know that I'm struggling. but one of the things that is an important message from tonight is the human services,

we're here to protect and optimize well-being for everybody, and that means that sometimes if somebody needs help, they need to know where to come to, and it is the city sometimes, even if it's somewhere where we're connecting A to B, where they can get what they need, and so I think that that's really important, that folks in the community that are aging, that they see us as a resource and somebody that cares about them and are going to help them. Even if we don't have the exact resource for them, we're going to help them get to those resources. Okay. Because I like visuals and colorful ones, too. When I was first, I was thinking about, okay, how am I going to frame this? This frame, how are we doing with older adults?

And thank goodness the AARP had done some work. And so eight domains of the livable framework, and it's the age-friendly network. And actually over a thousand communities across the country are in the age-friendly network, including seven in Virginia, including Alexandria and Arlington. And to become a member of this network, you have to do a five-year framework where you do like a review of where you're at as a community. You do an action plan and implement improvements in the areas of housing, transportation, public spaces, and social engagement. and I thought I mean even though you know tonight I might say okay let's go do this five-year study I just felt like this was a good way for us to frame and conversate have a conversation in the

community in our community about where we're at and how we're supporting residents and you know I would say to you guys how do you I mean how does the city currently support older adults I mean are we doing a good adults are we doing a good job with it where are the gaps and where do we want to where do we feel like we need to go as a city? And some notable things that I wanted to point out, too, because there's a lot of information tied to these frameworks, but a key thing is older adults need a place to gather and socialize, participate in activities, and remain engaged in the community. A vast majority of older adults say, I want to age in place. I want to stay maybe not in my house, but in my community.

that they have access to those resources that they need to be able to be safe in their home. When we focus on these eight domains of livable framework, we're not only helping older adults, we're impacting the whole community. And some further reasons that this is an important issue and something for us to talk about is the World Health Organization considers loneliness and social isolation as a public health priority. And with loneliness and social isolation, it's a key factor in impacting mental health conditions later in life. So it's not just about being lonely at home because you don't have anything to do, but it really does impact your mental and your physical well-being. One in four adults experience social isolation.

and individuals who live alone or have chronic medical issues or have functional decline already, it impacts them even more. So you've got somebody who's having social isolation, already has some things that are impacting their day-to-day, and not being connected to other people, it just makes it worse. This one kind of caught my attention a little bit. between social isolation and advanced health outcomes. Like John Hopkins did a study, and it found that there's a 50% increase risk for dementia for people that are with social isolation. And 29% increased risk for health disease. And I think, I mean, heart health disease, heart disease. But again, you know, whatever the percentage is, it impacts you.

If you're not connected to people, worthy and connected to your community it does impact your health all of us all right so what we're going to talk about now i'm going to have the the dream team here talk a little bit about you know how we're doing right now with these eight domains of livability and i and i would say that we're already doing things with all these different areas and so I'm just going to pass it off to Jason and and they have just a little bit of information they want to share with you

Jason Skadronstaffhello everybody yes I'd like to share a little bit about the village so currently we've grown to 167 members and we have 70 volunteers our advisory board consists of 12 members in January as you probably know the village received 10 $10,000 grant from the Virginia Villages Collective to reduce the public health risk of social isolation We're using the funding to develop a training program that we're calling Village Connections the training members The training It's going to be to our volunteers to help with our members It's going to focus on how best to communicate how to identify issues of concern and safety, and how best to build trust with our older population. In addition, as part of our strategic plan, we offer educational outreach and resources.

So, for example, we have a bi-monthly newsletter called View from the Village. We also program the Friday Morning Speaker Series. In February, we had Steve Gurney from Positive Aging. They published the source book in the Beacon newspaper. In May, we have two speakers lined up. We have two students from George Mason who are going to discuss AI, the hidden biases and algorithms and deepfake scams. And on May 29th, we have Main Street Bank. They're going to give a talk about fraud and scams, protecting yourself and your money. These events, we have attendance of between 30 and 70 people. this Friday is the Fairfax Village in the City Advisory Board is hosting our fourth home for life expo this year we have four sponsors we have 35 exhibitors

for guest speakers the the village connection sorry the connection newspaper highlighted the expo this week and it's from 10 to 2 I hope you guys can come by and check it out.

Thomas PetersonAnd,

Jason Skadronstaffyeah, so that's a little bit about what the village has been doing to help our community. And I want to pass it on to back to you, Diane. Okay.

Speaker 14Anne, okay. Good evening, everybody. For those of you that don't know so much about the Senior Center, I was going to go over three brief points about programming, our advisory council, and some information about the membership and attendance rates. So our Our center currently has 51 programs and activities we organize into, I would say, three categories. We have volunteer-led drop-in programs, staff-directed programs, and registered classes with paid instructors. So this mix allows us to provide flexibility, structure, and skill-based opportunities that meet our social, physical, and educational interests of our members. Just to explain a little more, the first category, the volunteer-led drop-in programs,

which provide flexibility, they're informal opportunities for our participants to engage in at the center, members. An example would be our military history group that's very popular, sports, arts, the music groups, and various games that come. So this represents about 37 percent of our program offerings. The second category we have are staff-directed activities, and these are more structured programs organized and directed by our team, some of which are a full fee as day trips and their cost recovery, and others have a smaller fee associated like the parties and the bingo and things that are not with the fee we lead as well, like the leagues and open house and the lunch and learn series. So that represents about 42% of our programming. Then we have our third category, and that's a

registered classes read by paid instructors. Either they're contracted or hourly city employees, and these are more formal skill-based classes that require advanced registration and payment. Those consist of a variety of our exercise classes, line dancing, and they can come at night and do the clock repair and martial arts. So all sorts of opportunities there. And that's about 19% of our programming. So while the staff oversees all the programs in the areas, we think the three-tier approach allows to offer a variety of accessibility and high-quality programs that meet the different interests, needs, commitment levels, financial ability within our senior community. So to support all that in accomplishing our program offerings,

we do have a senior advisory council. I think you've met some of them over the couple past meetings. They are a board made of 10 elected members, along with a representative from PRAB, and their role is to support the staff in meeting our social, educational, physical, and recreational needs of our members while ensuring an inclusive environment for everyone. They do this by staying connected to our members. They gather feedback, make recommendations, and enhancements to our programs and services. They also share information out to the community, and they build community connections through their participation in the city events. You'll see them at a 4th of July parade and the fall festival and then out in the community.

They're doing their craft show this weekend. So also the membership and participation, just a few statistics on that. Our membership continues to reflect a steady and encouraging growth. We have members ranging from 55 all the way up to 98 that are very active. Our all-time membership database, we started in 2009 in ActiveNet. It's about 7,000 members. However, to come up with a more accurate number that we track unique members year by year, this gives us a realistic sense of who we're actually serving. So our unique members from April 2025 to April now is about 1,527. Just quarter in particular, which I thought was pretty impressive with all the cold weather, we had 975 members participate.

And from that amount, 60% are county and 40% are city. We do have a handful that people drop in from out of the city county to pay membership, either like a $5 day pass or they'll do a year. So we also track new members coming for the very first time. And in the first quarter, we had 142 first time people come through. The participation also remains very strong and it grows. We average about 125 checking in a day, up to 160 during peak events. We do send our newsletter out to about 4,700 people in our Older Americans database there. So in conclusion, we have our programming, our advisory council, and engaged membership. We work together to ensure the senior center continues to meet the needs of our senior community.

If you have any questions, let me know.

Speaker 17Good evening. I wanted to provide an overview or a quick snapshot on CRT and how we're able to offer that direct support and service to our older adults. You saw a few slides ago, Leslie talked about how individuals are being referred to us, and typically we get a referral from public safety, whether it's EMS or police. They may be dealing with a high utilizer of 911, we're able to get that referral and provide that in-home support, assess their needs and understand what's going on so then we can also take the burden off of public safety and be able to provide that support and connect them to the appropriate services. We also receive referrals from family members and community and even neighbors.

We've had a couple of times where neighbors have come in and if they're already connected to the village, they will talk to Jason and he'll consult with us and that's how we are able to get involved with those individuals and just determine what again what's going on in the home and how we can best support them. At times we do have to involve Adult Protective Services, APS, if there is a safety need in the home and even with that we continue our work with both APS and the individual and if we can include family members in the support as well. We will. But our goal is to be able to not leave them alone, especially if they're isolated and they're lacking that family support. We want to make sure that we're connecting them

and they're not feeling so alone or feeling like they have to rely on public safety for that interaction with humans. So we continue our support again with APS. We meet with APS on a monthly basis where we can do cross referrals and consult with APS on just some things that may come up for someone who may not be appropriate for adult protective services, but can get other supports from the county through older adult services. We also have that support with family members. So we want to know what's going on in the home, having a whole systemic approach with not only family, if the neighbors are involved, but also with medical professionals. We've been able to have contact with medical doctors and just understand what's going on.

and now we had an individual who was connected to the village, and now this individual who was isolated has a volunteer that will call, but also they now have a home health aide. So, again, in identifying those needs on what's happening and how we can best support them, we try to have this collaborative approach and be able to identify what's needed within the home. That's all.

Jay DavisonstaffI'm sure you guys have seen me around walking around here. My name's Jay. I'm the community paramedic from the fire department side. I'm the medical arm of the CRT. So I work mostly in risk reduction, follow-on care, and education. At least that's what most of the things we end up doing right now. So for risk reduction, I may be loud enough without it. Sorry. Excuse me. So for risk reduction, we have various educational programs. We teach to the community hands-only CPR, stop the bleed. I do a lot of medicine reconciliation and when people need help tracking their meds and things like that I also follow up on a lot of things that come from the hospital so essentially if you are injured in the city of Fairfax and you

fall into certain brackets I get an email about it that says hey this person may need your assistance can you follow up with them a lot of times it's a phone call and they say oh no I'm just fine but other times it's like I have been falling more or I didn't know these services exist or any of these things comes in and kind of feels out what we need to connect them to to help them. And so for a lot of these things where the kind of three-prong approach you have here is that sometimes it's a medical issue where I come in and like, hey, maybe something that was longstanding that the person just didn't know. And like, you know, you're too close to the problem to see it. Or it may be a budding mental health issue that I may not recognize but Malika will.

And so that's the benefit of having the three of us together. and what we provide. As for adult services, we generally, they're 35% of the people we see right now. It's our largest age group. Right now it's 68 people in the 55-plus category. And we more often than not stick with a person from anywhere from 30 to 60 days depending on what services they may need. So we may stay with them, checking in with them once a week or so, making sure that they're connected to the things they need to be And then as the services take over or their situation improves, we kind of fade to the wayside. And that's generally our way we do things. I'm happy to answer questions at any point.

Billy BatesSorry, I need to move the mic. There you go, Johns.

Carrie JohnsstaffHi, I'm NPO Carrie Johns. I'm new to this team, but looking at some of the services we provide, I looked at data from the last 2023, 2024, 2025. And in all of those years, with the 65-plus age range, the three common ways that we come into contact as a police department with older adults is through fraud reports, welfare checks, and anything related to traffic. So traffic stops, citations, motor vehicle crashes. So, you know, with the fraud reports, not only do we receive those calls through dispatch, but our detectives also receive those calls from, they receive referrals from investigators through banks, through APS, or other services that older adults might be receiving. in terms of like regionally

there is a financial exploitation prevention task force which looks like common trends throughout the region and then from there as a police department as CRT we're able to educate the older adult population on what those scams might be or services that might be available to them for that compensation protect their information from further issue. With welfare checks, that's something that we respond to, as Jay and Malika touched on, going into the home and having that human interaction to see what issues there are that we can assist with and connect them to those services. In terms of traffic stops and motor vehicle crashes, the Virginia DMV has medical review services available, not just through the police, but also through family members, neighbors.

Anyone can request a medical review service should they feel that they have a family member or a neighbor that might need to be reviewed if they should continue to drive safely. So that's what we have on older adults from the police side of things. Okay, so

Lesley AbashianstaffI'm going to have more slides. I'm just going to wrap it up. can tell the team is doing some really important work and one of the things that i would say about the the services that you're hearing about they're really low cost low barrier to access but impactful when you look at the overall price of the the services we're providing but i'd also say that you know part of the reason these these this team is successful is because they build relationships. They're able to connect. I think a lot of times, for instance, with adult services, they go and they knock on a door and say, hey, Sarah said you're having problems. And they go, we don't need you. You know, close the door. Because you think about sometimes when the

government's coming, adult services come in, they're coming to take your independence. They're coming to, you know, that you're in trouble or whatever. But our team are able to take some time to build some trust to build to get to know really what's going on to assess the situation and then link them to resources they need and that's a really important thing that we're able to do i found like well okay jay found jay found this great article and it said that every $1 invested in healthy aging, $3 may be returned to society via economic and health care benefits. And that was done by McKinsey Health Institute. And really what that means is when we know sooner, rather than later, if somebody's struggling,

if we have an opportunity to connect with them to get them to where they need, it's not only you know a physical impact for us or the the you know for the fairfax county system or whoever's giving services it's also a quality of life impact if we can catch people before they get to a place where they're having a hard time being at home or their their safety's at risk or you know they have to go to higher level of service so it's really important that we're able to do that. And so I'm going to wrap up by this because I always think, and this is from my days of when I did Toastmasters, you know, you're supposed to have like an ask at the end, right? You have to, and I do have certificates if y'all want to see them. I was very proud of my certificate.

But, you know, there's ask. And so these are just things to think about because in the end, I'm very respectful of the fact that public policy is not a one day I come in, I ask for money, the money is there, and then the next day the program starts. You know, part of this is about starting conversations, having conversations, figuring out what the priorities are, and engaging. And so that's what this is about, really thinking about where we are. And I think, you know, we're doing some great stuff in the city, but also thinking about what we need to do next. And so we need to promote social connections. That's really important. People need to feel needed. They need to feel connected. They need to feel part of the community.

It's not only good for them, it's good for our communities. Education awareness. Providing information. You know, some of the things that we're doing is saying, hey, you may want to pay attention to this scam. Or, hey, this is where you can get resources if you need it. expo it's all about information on things that you need to know as you get older and that's really important for us to put out there because hopefully if something happens where there is a scam call or there's something happened they go hey wait a minute i remember that information i got and this didn't sound right you know that's what we're trying to do uh policy and budget considerations again you know just having these conversations being able to connect and and talk about you know

as a city what our priorities are and what we want to do. And I'll stop with this. Recognizing social needs, it's not always driven by financial needs. We have people in our community that have the financial needs, but they're just disconnected. Or maybe they don't have family anymore. I mean, I can't tell you how many people we've met where all their family, all their relatives are dead. It's just them. or they live across the country or they're estranged for some reason. So we're not only, you know, looking at financial when we're thinking about, you know, helping older adults. We're also thinking about making sure they really do know where they fit and that they're connected and that we're paying attention.

And on that note, I'm finished. If anybody has any questions for me or any of the team, we're here for you.

Catherine ReadThank you so much. I'll start with Council Member Hardy Chandler.

Stacey Hardy-ChandlerWell, I was very eagerly anticipating this presentation, and you did not disappoint. Reinforcing all that our city has available is a really important reminder, as you mentioned, not just for those who are direct recipients of these kinds of services, but for all of us who are impacted, who care about the older adults in our neighborhoods and who are becoming or looking forward to becoming the older adults in our neighborhoods. I think you can gauge, and forgive me if I'm inadvertently quoting someone and not giving them credit, but I do think you can gauge a city's values by how they create opportunities and treat their older adults, their vulnerable populations and their children, right? And I really believe that we have made some very strong investments.

And I'm curious about not getting stagnant. You know, I'm curious about especially this slide along with the graphic because I also want to, while we're doing so many great things, I WANT TO ALSO THINK ABOUT THE FUTURE AND WHERE WE NEED TO GO. WHERE WE'RE HEADED TO MAINTAIN THIS LEVEL OF CARE AND THIS LEVEL OF INVESTMENT IN THIS PARTICULAR SECTOR OF OUR COMMUNITY. SO IT'S INTERESTING WITH THE GRAPHIC BECAUSE I LOVE GRAPHICS AND COLOR. IF YOU GO BACK TO THE LIVE ABILITY DOMAINS. SO I'M CURIOUS. every month I have this journal and you have to reflect on how well you did in various domains right and it's one to ten in each pie slice right and you kind of fill that in and you can see where your gaps are so you can look forward to what you need to work on in the future so optimally we would

want these to all be at the ten level optimally and when you go through some of those points on slide number seven, where are we falling short of 10 so that, you know what I'm saying? If it's filled out to its capacity, it's 10. If we're falling a little short, it's less than that, right? All the way out to the edge. What areas are we maybe falling a little short where we may need to make some of those overarching budgetary investments or policy investments in your view?

Catherine Readdo

Stacey Hardy-Chandleryou

Catherine Readunderstand

Stacey Hardy-Chandlerthe question or am i i'm

Lesley Abashianstaffpondering or am

Stacey Hardy-Chandleri being very stacy right now i

Lesley Abashianstaffthink some of this is that probably you know as a city have we we've never really had that conversation like really looking at it with older adults at least since i've been here but my initial reaction would be first off is strengthening and supporting what we're already that or you know looking at the capacity and I would I would ask like the community response team like what kind of things are you guys running into when you're working with older adults that you know you wish if Santa was here you know maybe what what he would be bringing us I

Speaker 17think one thing that we run into is when we're working with older adult services and wanting to get someone connected like we recognize the need and we want to get them connected to service however their income may not allow them to receive that service from the county so we're back at square one again trying to find resources that will fit their income requirements and they're able to get the support that they need so I think that's something as a community that would be helpful and not having that income requirement and just allowing for if someone needs that support, then they should be able to it should be available to them.

Jay DavisonstaffIn addition to that, I would say I've noticed over time that many of our older adult citizens fall in the category where they're surviving but they're not thriving. That's the issue we run into some of the times because if you're well below the survival you lots of services but if you're just treading water it makes it very hard for us to connect them to things that would be my area of improvement for us more than anything else is that is that that is a big barrier to care for a lot of people where if they were worse off slightly I'd have a much easier opportunity.

Stacey Hardy-ChandlerAnd who wants to reinforce people being worse off in order to get services I mean horrible. I also just want to highlight all of the sort of That is kind of a thing. I think I was highlighting that in a meeting earlier today. And that statistic is fantastic, a dollar of an investment. You get a $3 back on return on that investment because there has been earlier, less critical intervention. And I think that the extent to which we can build that where there are resources, there's a smooth path between contact and resources. that's really important.

Lesley AbashianstaffOkay. And I think one of the things I would add, too, is just, I mean, because we work with family services with Fairfax County, we get a lot of resources for them, and they do some work around caregiver support, but that would be another thing, you know, maybe even with the village or something, thinking about we're already doing some support with caregivers, but maybe thinking about how we can maximize that, because we rely on you know the people that are taking care of the older adults too so I would probably put that in there

Catherine Readand I would just follow up by saying I think there's really good data about how often caregivers pre-decease the person they're taking care of and I mean I can tell you that is real and then then the family if there is family is left and oftentimes it's the spouse and so you bury one spouse who's been the caregiver and you've left with having to. So caregivers get burnt out, especially if they're older caregivers. And social isolation, all of this is so important, and I think we don't talk about it enough because people keep their private things private. So unless your neighbors understand that somebody is struggling or that an older adult couple is in their house and there's nobody knows until something happens.

I WOULD LOVE FOR US TO RAISE UP BETTER CARE FOR CAREGIVERS AND MORE RESOURCES FOR CAREGIVERS AND PROGRAMS FOR CAREGIVERS AND OUTLETS FOR CAREGIVERS. YEAH, THAT WOULD BE ON MY WISH LIST. OTHER QUESTIONS, COMMENTS FROM THE DIOS? COUNCIL MEMBER HALL.

Stacy HallJUST WANTED TO SAY THANK YOU FOR THE PRESENTATION AND A LOT OF GOOD INFORMATION AND NEW INFORMATION FOR ME AS WELL. OFFICER JOHNS, IT'S NICE TO SEE YOU OUTSIDE OF KATHERINE JOHNSON, though I'm sure they are missing you, but excited for your new role here for sure. Kind of a joke, but not really. So my husband just turned 49, and all these statistics about like 50 and older. I feel like it used to be 65 and older or 55 and older. Now seeing it drop to 50 is not very far away for some of us now. So yeah, I think we're going to have a lot of people entering that 50 plus in the next few years for sure because pretty much all of my friends, with the exception of a couple that are younger over there,

are going to be heading towards that soon. But I think you all do a really great job of letting people know what services are out there, what's available. I'd love hearing about how you work, you know, if someone goes to the hospital for something or a car accident, that there's that connection that happens and, you know, the follow-up time. And I just think it's really great to know that we live in a community that does that. I'm sure it's not always successful, but just the fact that it's there and that it's trying, right? And at least if it's not successful, then it's that person still on your radar. And you know, maybe I should follow up in a week or a month or six months or maybe see if they have any family or other friends nearby.

But I also think a reminder for all of us is, you know, as to the mayor's point with the caregivers, you know, know your neighbors. Know who has not been walking the dog lately. You know, know who you're used to seeing out there that maybe might not be there. or knock on the door and just say hello, and you might find that maybe something has happened, or you just don't know what's going on in their lives. So I think it's a good piece of advice for all of us to check out, watch out for each other. We are all in this together. I think we were all so good with that during the pandemic. You'd see everybody out walking all the time. But as we get busy again and get to different stages of our lives,

I think we all just kind of sometimes forget about those that we don't see every day. So just a little PSA, does all of these great things for our community, for our residents, and as staff members and as volunteers. I think we do have a great village here, and I thank you all for what you're doing to keep it going.

Catherine ReadCouncilmember McQuillan.

Rachel McQuillenI did want to ask, how often do you, or do you, refer people to some of the organization, clubs, things like that, that we have in the area? that could, you had mentioned that there's this need for socialization in our aging population, and we have some really great organizations here in the city that provide that kind of contact and ability, that socialization. Do you often link them to, like, we have the women's club and things like that in this area? I just see that we have a lot of activity. I wasn't sure how much you...

Lesley AbashianstaffI think right now it depends on, like, an individual. It's a one-to-one in that, you know, like a cert team or village or either the senior senior gets to know somebody and they say, hey, you should look at this, that kind of thing, you know. So it's a one-off. And, you know, fortunately or unfortunately, sometimes by the time people come to our attention, there's other things going on too. But, you know, any kind of resource or things where you feel like that's something that people can be connected to, that's something we can share through, like you've heard, There's, you know, ways to communicate that. Because, again, there's people out in the community that we may never hang out with, right?

They may never need us. But that doesn't mean that social isolation doesn't impact them. Right. So just getting that information out and getting people connected. And I think that's why I go back to I really rely on the community to let me know what's going on. And that means, too, your neighbor. if you see a neighbor that's maybe retired, living by themselves, lost their spouse, you know, struggling, you know, taking that extra time to say, hey, you want to go to a woman's club with me? You know, we're having breakfast or those kind of things. Because I think that's part of being connected, too. You know, sometimes there's the formal resources that you connect with, and sometimes it's just the things we take that extra minute to do that.

But, you know, any kind of those clubs or anything that you think would be connected, we can share with the team. You just never know when they'll meet or connect with somebody and go, hey, this would be a great thing for you to do.

Rachel McQuillenYeah, I was just thinking about the story that you told earlier that a lot of individuals aren't really in that threshold to receive some of these services. And sometimes just having that communication, that contact, that support early on before you get to that point. I will put a little plug for our women's club here in the city. It's fantastic. They send cards to people when they're ill. They check on them. Happy birthday. They do all of those little social interactions that allow you to feel recognized and help with that isolation that we're experiencing and seeing in the area. So that just was one of the ideas I thought was that might be a resource that we can, you know, greater coordination to provide that to people would be excellent.

Catherine ReadThank you. Other questions, comments? Council Member Bates.

Billy BatesYeah. That was an excellent point. sometimes when people retire they are just kind of like I don't need help I don't need to go do anything I don't want to bother with that and they end up just being at home driving everybody else crazy but not mentioning names but sometimes when they don't have anybody else at home that becomes a really sad situation I think that's why it's really important that sometimes they need that extra push to go out and do something or to just know that they're wanted, I guess, that people are out there who care about them. Because a lot of people just deep down, they want to be helped, they want to belong, but just don't really know how to go about it or don't you know don't want to

feel like they need that and so having that extra push can be really important and as you also mentioned it really can have significant implications for mental and physical health and in many different ways so yeah thank

Jay Davisonstaffyou

Catherine Readother questions or comments? Council Member Hardy-Chandler.

Stacey Hardy-ChandlerSo I just wanted to highlight once again one of the things you said about partnerships and us being able to do more because we have a partnership with the county and as you talked about building relationships with residents I think it's been no small feat to maintain good relationships with our county and regional partners and that's incredibly important to expand our bandwidth and what we are able to offer as a city. It's interesting, and I think one of you mentioned it, about banks alerting people to fraud because when I was supervising some folks who work for APS, it was fascinating to hear when a bank identified that there was something going wrong before a family member or community member,

which just goes to show information can come from anywhere, and all of us have a responsibility to be alert. And when the institutions notice something, certainly we as community members should notice something. I want to absolutely highlight our Village and the City as a model for how to do things well and how to do things at a level of excellence that is in demand nationally. And I want to acknowledge our Village for how generous they are with sharing information villages, our chair Anita Light there and the other members of the steering committee who not only provide valuable services to our community but are more than generous with spreading successes and supporting other villages and getting started and with ideas. So thank you for not only what you do but for

what you do for other villages. It's incredible work. And on that note, want MENTIONED THE HOME FOR LIFE EXPO THAT IS COMING UP FRIDAY, WHICH VOLUNTEERING AT THAT EXPO IS MY HUSBAND'S BIRTHDAY PRESENT. IT IS HIS BIRTHDAY AND WE WILL BE THERE SUPPORTING THAT EXCELLENT EVENT AND IT IS ANOTHER WAY THAT WE PUT INFORMATION IN PEOPLE'S PATH. IT IS PEOPLE COMING TOGETHER IN A SINGLE PLACE AND I DON'T THINK THAT CAN BE MINIMIZED EITHER. and we can hand out information, but I think bringing people together to commune in a space to have these kinds of conversations and have the resources and to say to someone, just go over there to that table or, you know, there is a resource that can follow up with you,

you know, based on the presentation today. So although that's once a year, I think it's a wonderful example of how a community literally can come together to really support an idea. I'm just very, you know, thankful for all that you all are doing. The unhoused piece. Curious about the connection to the housing plan and, you know, just some thoughts about, we've talked a lot about the prevention part, and that's sort of the extreme of sort of a critical need when someone who is in their 80s, right, does not have a stable living situation. So just curious about some thoughts around that.

Lesley AbashianstaffThere are some connections, because we did look at that when we were doing that housing plan. You know, one of the things I would say, I believe pathway homes, like those units that they're putting over their new building in the city, are going to be for older, you know, like older adults. I think that, you know, also Beacon Landing, I bet they'll get some older adults too, you know, because I think that there's definitely still a gap with being able to afford staying in a house, you know, staying in this area, especially if you were struggling when you were working and then all of a sudden you're not working and a medical thing happens and, you know, all these things pile up. but I think that the continuum of care is really looking at at that because the older adults that's

the biggest growing subpopulation in the homeless continuum I think that that's something that Jamie's really paying attention to with the housing work I think the Lamb Center you know sees a lot more older people so I think that it's something we need to look at more because it gets my attention when I see that and I then I have a vision of my mom if it was that was my mom you know that was living out on the street and with her medical issue or whatever and um so I think we do need to pay attention to that and pay attention to opportunities and I think um on Friday Jamie one of the things she's um bringing is talking about the home sharing you know like I don't know it's like one of many options you know but there's there's some different

opportunities to be creative in the community and try to find places where people can live you know and afford it but still stay in the community so yeah I don't I wish I had all the answers then I would be making like I would have a Nobel Peace Prize and you know be retired but but I do think that as a on a serious note we really do need to be paying attention and talking ABOUT THAT.

Catherine ReadOTHER QUESTIONS, COMMENTS? COUNCIL MEMBER PETERSON?

Thomas PetersonWHAT DO WE DO TO HELP PEOPLE WHO ARE OLDER AND ARE HOMEOWNERS AND ARE REALLY WORRIED WITH GOOD REASON ABOUT NOT BEING ABLE TO AFFORD TO STAY IN THEIR EXISTING HOMES? THINGS ARE GETTING EXPENSIVE, INCLUDING the burdens of home ownership through taxes, et cetera. But this is a pretty common fear people have, that they're not going to be able to hang on to their home. What do we do to help them?

Lesley AbashianstaffI think there's different things, because some of the folks we're talking about, the ones that don't own homes, so there's no resources. So I think that with folks that own homes, they're worried about keeping with the upkeep, their you know all the expenses that it costs to live I know AARP and some of those you know sometimes we'll do sessions or educate you know like there's connections to kind of think about that think about how to maximize the resources you have I think that you know that's sometimes that that's a fear that maybe you have resources but you're just worried that one more thing happens not going to have the resources and I think sometimes with some of the folks that we you know end up dealing with because at the time when they come to us

sometimes the older adults they're living by themselves that code has gotten involved in because they're not keeping their house or their yard or whatever you know there's also sometimes those those critical conversations about are you you know are you at a place where maybe this is too much for you you know are there other options you know just starting to have those conversations um i don't you know there's just a lot of different ways i think with our services we don't have like a specific thing you know that we do one stop you know thing that we do but you know that would actually also may even be a something to throw back to h cab too you know in regards about some you know resources because we've got some housing people on that.

I know I worry about it. I worry about being able to, once I retire, to be able to pay for my house. So I think that's a real thing for many people.

Thomas PetersonWell, I would just agree that it is. And it is here in the city of Fairfax. And you've rattled out some statistics that affirm that. A pretty big percentage of people are older. or a pretty big percentage of them own homes, a pretty big percentage of them, for good reason, are worried about being able to make ends meet. I think it is a driving fear that a great many people have in their lives that that is what is waiting for them. It's waiting for them here in the city of Fairfax. We hear from them and we knock on their doors and talk to them. We hear from them when it's budget time and tax time because that extra increment is something that they really do feel. So I'm not sure there is a perfect answer.

I just want to affirm that it is a real issue.

Jay DavisonstaffI was just going to tell you, Mr. Peterson, that for most of those cases, that's one of the common things that I deal with, as the people that, again, are surviving, not thriving, or slowly going towards that not surviving level. Thanks to our partnerships with the more robust areas of the county, we have access to utility support. We have access to food support. We have access to numerous other things that I can connect people to that not only buy them time but bring in expertise. So whether we can quickly help them in the case of like they are destitute and need financial support or if it's hey, we're heading that way, can we start to direct you to a better way of living whether it be downsizing or things in your home itself.

That is one of the things we can take advantage of here in the city.

JC MartinezstaffI'm sorry, if I could add as well. So the city does offer what I would consider a pretty robust tax relief program for our seniors and also our elderly and disabled. We're actually in the process. April 15th is the cutoff for the annual basis for people to apply and also renew that application. It's based off of a certain asset amount that you can have. Total assets of about $400,000 and then also an annual income threshold. Depending on certain levels, you would either get 100%, 75%, 50%, or 25% credit on your real estate tax bill. Once you qualify, you just have to renew on an annual basis for three years. To give you a very good statistic from last year, there was about 250 individuals who applied

and who received that tax benefit. totaling about 1.3 million dollars in revenue that was not received on the city that we were able to give those elderly residents those potentially disabled residents that tax benefit on the city side and that's something that we review on an annual basis bring to council every november and say would you like to review this and or increase those thresholds

Thomas Petersonand so for people who are listening this evening who may have an interest do they call the city and say i'd like to talk to Tax relief for seniors?

JC MartinezstaffAbsolutely. I know the treasurer. They receive a lot of individuals that come there. He also provides some of that service and information. It's actually administered through the finance department. Sue Heath is the one who actually administers that. Everyone knows her. She has traffic in and out of that office constantly between now and April 15th. Some individuals will reach out to the real estate assessment director, Christine Johnson. She will direct them accordingly as well. And that information is

Lesley Abashianstaffalso on the website.

JC MartinezstaffApril 15th is the deadline.

Lesley AbashianstaffFor 2026.

Thomas PetersonFor the programs you are referencing, for the people who are listening in this evening, how do they reach you? How do they place a call and say, you know what, I could use a little bit of advice here.

Jay DavisonstaffProbably the easiest way is either to call into the city itself. So the same way you call a city manager suite, you would be able to talk to us. Who do

Thomas Petersonthey ask for?

Jay DavisonstaffCRT. You would get one of the three of us and then that would be... CRT? Yes, sir. The other way to do it would be referred to us by email, which is community response team at fairfaxva.gov.

Thomas PetersonVery helpful to know because I think one of the other things that is perhaps generational, there may be more to it than that, is the way people communicate. and for some people it's a whole lot easier to place a telephone call than it is to get on a computer and start punching numbers and all that kind of stuff. So it's great to make a call and to get somebody live who can help on these kinds of things. I think that's just a really crucial thing. The other thing that I think is worth just knowing and noticing in case you haven't is that a lot of people are working a lot longer than they used to. Part of that's necessity. You can't retire. say the retirement calculator ain't what it used to be. So people are staying in the workforce

and that should be recognized and we should reward that without any penalty. I hate to use the term age discrimination but I will because when you get there you know how it feels. So we need to create an environment that takes care of people who are continuing to work work past the ages when in the past we thought it was retirement time because that is norming a heck of a lot these days. So there's that. I mean, some people can't do that, but a whole lot of people can. People are taking care of themselves also. So the whole definition of age brackets is now not what it used to be. So we just need to get used to the fact that we've got an active older population of professionals and others who are working

And we need to appreciate that and not limit it. The other thing speaking, anybody who's gotten older at whatever age this happens, but particularly after a certain point, you start to wish that you had known and done certain things earlier in your life. So I don't know where that fits in in terms of what we do here. but back to the financial side, one of them is wishing you had started saving money earlier and to help people financially at the earliest possible ages. I think it really needs to start in high school, honestly, the concept of saving and building a savings. There's taking care of your health and being proactive about that and not thinking that it's going to take care of itself for you.

But there's a whole lot of things that make a very big difference in people's lives if they are proactive early in life and continuously, and yet for whatever reason, a lot of times we don't realize that until we sort of cross the bridge later on and say, good grief, I wish I'd known that. So again, I don't know where that goes in terms of what we can do to help at an intergenerational level, younger people, appreciate the need to focus on those things. So I would offer that as well.

Lesley AbashianstaffI was going to say too, you know, not only with the SIRT team, if there's ever a question in the community where somebody just doesn't know what to do, they can call me. You know, Leslie Abashen. They can call me and I can connect. You know, I might connect them to Jamie. I may connect them to SIRT team. I may connect them for adult services because, I mean, that's kind of what I do. and I think a lot of times I may not have the answer but I can at least hear what's going on and try to figure out where they're trying to get and at least get them started because I think sometimes you just need a problem solver buddy. You know like somebody that you can kind of work with and kind of figure out

what's available. So I would put my name out there too.

Thomas PetersonWell if I could just add and appreciate if there's one thing This has been wonderful to hear all of this this evening, but if there's one thing that I think is the most helpful and important of all is that there's an opportunity for people to pick up a telephone and call the city, ask for one of you, or at least just ask the operator who they can talk to, and they get somebody to talk to. They get a person to talk to about all this. The human side of this just cannot be overstated. SO REALLY APPRECIATE THAT THAT'S AN OPPORTUNITY. AND AGAIN, FOR EVERYBODY WHO IS LISTENING IN THIS EVENING, I WOULD STRONGLY ENCOURAGE YOU NOT TO HESITATE TO CALL THE CITY ABOUT ANYTHING LIKE THIS AT ANY TIME. YOU KNOW, FOLKS WHO HAVE GONE THROUGH THAT EXPERIENCE WILL TELL YOU IT HAS BEEN SO GOOD

TO MAKE THAT CALL AND TO TALK TO ONE OF YOU GUYS AND HAVE YOU TALK TO THEM AND HELP YOU OUT WITH ALL THIS AND KIND OF NAVIGATE YOUR WAY THROUGH WHATEVER IT IS. SO IT'S REALLY GREAT TO KNOW. and I'm hoping that you will be sure to continue doing that.

Catherine ReadUntil I retire. Other questions, comments from the dais? And

Stacy Hallthen you'll volunteer in

Lesley Abashianstaffthe

Catherine Readdais. So I'm just going to show you my Young at Heart Senior Center card because this is a very unflattering photo. I'm one of the 7,000 people who are members who every time I walk in there, I never have it on me, so I don't swipe it for you to know that I'm one of the 146. But, you know, this is something that everybody can get. I want to give a shout-out to Gloria Toner, who is a young-at-heart senior senator superstar. And she is the living embodiment of what it means to age gracefully and vibrantly in the city of Fairfax. and she might be your most senior member of the senior center.

Jason SkadronstaffNo,

Catherine Readno. Well, and, you know, and we've got somebody who's coming up with a 100th birthday on July 4th, which is Virginia Mahoney here in the city too. Just putting that out there because I'm thinking about Virginia, who will be 100 on the 4th of July. We do have a lot of people who have lived most of their lives here who are in different places in their lives and who require different kinds of supports and services. But, you know, one of the things earlier this evening we were discussing, the Willard Sherwood Center and the senior center that will go at the Willard Sherwood Center. And that is a facility for the 7,000 people who have this card to go in there and get the community connection to take the exercise classes to play pickleball or basketball or bocce to do.

that we as a city can offer the people who choose to age here and I would just close by saying thanks to all of you for supporting the older people who live in the city including me because look I have a card aging is a privilege it truly is and it certainly beats the alternative something to keep in mind for those of us who have fewer years ahead of us than we have behind us so I I APPRECIATE THE FACT THAT OUR CITY HAS CENTERED PEOPLE WHO ARE SENIORS AND THAT WE CARE ABOUT THEM AND THAT WE WORK TO BUILD THE PROGRAMS AND THE SERVICES AND THE PLACES FOR THEM TO BE. SO THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH FOR YOUR PRESENTATION. COUNCIL MEMBER PETERSON? I

Thomas PetersonDON'T THINK WE'RE DOING COUNCIL COMMENTS TONIGHT. WE ARE NOT. SO I JUST AS A MATTER OF PERSONAL PRIVILEGE WOULD LIKE TO WISH MY MOTHER A HAPPY BIRTHDAY THIS THURSDAY. SHE WILL TURN 98.

Catherine Readthere you go and

Thomas Petersonshe lives right here in the city of Fairfax on Edstall Road across from Woodson in a nice residential home there where she's been now for almost a decade amazing amazing

Catherine Readthese are the people we do this for thank you all so much Ms. Shinneberry who do we have up next

Shinneberryclerkour next item is a discussion on translation services for city council Matthew Kaiser or Communications and Marketing Director for the presentation.

Catherine ReadAll right. Are you ready?

Matthew KaiserstaffAre you ready?

Catherine ReadI'm ready if you're ready.

Matthew KaiserstaffWe're ready.

Catherine ReadOkay, we're ready.

Matthew KaiserstaffWell, good evening, Mayor Reed and City Council. Matthew Kaiser, Communications Director, and I'm here with Dave Welch, who is our executive video producer. Typically, you don't see him because he's back in the back room managing these meetings. He and his team make sure that these run smoothly. So he's very aware of the technology in these rooms, the software behind it. And in that vein, he has discovered a new service. It's 2026. Technology is crazy. and this is wild, real-time translation service for any meetings in this room or council chambers. So you can imagine if someone has a land use case or if they're at a school board meeting and their siblings or sons, daughters, granddaughters are being talked about

and English isn't their first language, you can imagine that that would be a problem, right? A barrier. Maybe they wouldn't even attend the meeting. of what's being discussed. So kind of following this last presentation with Leslie's team, inclusivity, right, and breaking down these barriers to have a government who serves everyone. So we were kind of asked to look at different options for language translation. There's several out there. There's some devices that are similar to the hearing box over here, you know, that you have to kind of keep clean, and batteries charged, and they're not used very often, the case but this is a really kind of magical solution we've stumbled across and it actually is with the same company that provides our services now so there's

not a huge lift as far as you know digging up the floor and rewiring things putting in new speakers or microphones if you have a if you have a smartphone this will work for you and with that I'm gonna give it to Dave Dave, because he is the expert here, and we'll be able to walk you through what we've found.

Dave WelchstaffI will say this is only a one-slide presentation, but you get to check this out at the end. So the service that we have is called Cablecast MediaScribe, and Cablecast is the system that runs our broadcast, which we all watch streaming through Cox and Verizon, various places. So what is MediaScribe? A little bit technical here. a one-site gateway appliance that connects to our meetings. AV feed using automatic speech recognition in the cloud to convert spoken words, anything that's coming through these microphones, into text and audio in real time. And it does have up to 72 languages. So it's got a pretty robust collection of languages. So how does it work? Residents or anybody attending a meeting can scan a QR code.

You can select your desired language and read the live translated text on your own personal device. You can see an asterisk here. There will be in-ear spoken translations that will be released. They have it in beta form now. So when you look at it, you'll hear Spanish. It will speak German, a few other languages. But that's coming. What does staff need to do? This is a pretty simple process for staff. We basically turn it on at the beginning of the meeting and turn it off at the end. So very little interaction with the technology for us, for staff, during the meeting. Funding. So this is not a general fund. This would not be a general fund expenditure. This would come from the cable grant fund, which is outside of the general fund.

five-year term that includes all of the hardware and the licensing at $70,000. And it's a pretty quick implementation time. So you've got about four weeks implementation time from the initiation of the project, which is basically we have a PO and we're ready to get

Thomas Petersonto work on

Dave Welchstaffit. So this is the presentation. but I think the fun part really Matthew has something else hold the fun

Matthew Kaiserstaffso just for the benefit of other people who aren't aware of the cable grant fund that is the franchise fees that Cox and Verizon pay the city for the privilege of having their businesses here so that's not tax money from residents that is a franchise fee from those businesses that's something that Dave manages as people cut the cord and gone to streaming services that that stream of revenue has shriveled so we have to manage it and you know make equipment last a little bit longer but we think that this is a valuable way to spend some of that that money the other thing I want to say is that this has potential to be a two-way communications device so in the same way that the resident is here listening you know to the language spoken their native

language. If they want to communicate back to you, you just have to have the app open and put in your earbuds and you'll be able to hear what they're saying in English. So that is going to be pretty cool. So with that, it's show and tell time.

Dave WelchstaffMs. Shinneberry has some QR codes if you'd like to scan that just to see how it works.

Catherine ReadThis would have been so useful today. We had the mayor of Kalika municipality in Nepal. I thought that same thing. Yes, yes, and of course I don't speak his language and he had a translator with him, but man this would have been so cool to try out with the mayor.

Dave WelchstaffAnything that's spoken into a microphone would be captured and you can select a language. So if you open this, if you scan the QR code and open, it doesn't open an app, it goes to Cablecast Cloud Service. And once you screen, you will see on the bottom right-hand side an icon, a figure inside of a circle. If you tap that icon, you can select a language, you can select the font size, the spacing, and you can select audio. While the Spanish translation and audio portion is beta, I have found it does work. A few other languages do work, but right now they're not committing to that. they're working even in beta form. And if anybody has a question on how to open this and use it, happy to help. So what you're seeing, I worked with Cablecast to give them one of our previous work sessions

with the school board.

Thomas PetersonAnd then you'll see that it's branded with

Dave Welchstaffour seal in the top left corner, and then you'll see the translation happening of that previous work session. So I had to give them, they can't do it live because it requires the appliance to get it live. I thought I was

Stacy Hallsupposed to be doing you, and I'm like, can you do that?

Dave WelchstaffThis is all wrong. We

Matthew Kaiserstaffhave to pay for it first and get it installed. Then it'll be real time. But that

Dave Welchstaffwas the next best thing, using something prerecorded that they could use, right? So you can see all the stuff. And if you don't see a language, box so you can type in the language and it'll usually bring it up for you.

Stacy HallLanguage. Okay. I actually, we went and toured Old Dominion University over the weekend with my junior and they offer something like this in their classes, which I just think was amazing. And they're like, tell everybody about it. I think they're the only university that actually offers it. So this is super exciting that we can be doing this here in the city.

Dave WelchstaffWere they using the MediaScribe application?

Stacy HallThey called it some just rebranded it. You might

Dave Welchstaffhave.

Stacy HallYeah. So interesting. I just thought it was super cool because we have another friend with a son at Radford and he's got one class where the professor has just such a heavy accent that he just can't really understand it. And so he's struggling in the class. And I'm trying to think of all these things, chat GPT, Google, this, that. And I mean, the fact that this is presentation tonight was just very, very timely. And I'm all in for this.

Matthew KaiserstaffSo Dave and I have both worked in surrounding jurisdictions and we've checked And nobody else is using this yet. So this would be a very forward-thinking thing for the city to adopt. And we've already heard other people like, wait, what? You're going to be doing something? That sounds like something we should be doing.

Stacy HallNow sign me up. I'm all in.

Dave WelchstaffIn fact, my counterparts at Fairfax County said they were coming tonight. So I'm glad they're not glaring over my shoulder tonight. Council Member Hardy-Chandler.

Stacey Hardy-ChandlerI like that you can also adjust the font for those of us who are older.

Thomas PetersonI don't know if you've checked quality control issues, but it would be worth doing that. So not all translators are created equal, right? And not all languages are easy, similar in ease to translate. And sometimes you can get some goofs. Sometimes they're problematic. I've used a lot of translators in a lot of public meetings in a lot of countries and you find it real quick that there are certain things that they have a tough time with. And so technical things are a prime example of that. It's often difficult for translation programs to be able to sort out technical terminology, jargon of different types. And we use a lot of jargon politically in this country as well that's very difficult to translate into other countries.

And sometimes it translates in ways that are offensive or embarrassing and all that. a long way of saying to the extent you can check it out to see how this has worked for others who have had to use it in this kind of an operating environment, I think it would be helpful to do.

Dave WelchstaffYeah, for sure. Something to keep in mind. We have been able to, I think, take a look at the Spanish translation and been able to identify that it is accurate. Now, you know, further testing, you know, there are ways to use vocabulary where you can go back in don't use this word, use this word, which we can do with our captioning, our cloud captioning for the meetings as well. So those are all things that we'll certainly keep an eye on.

Thomas PetersonMight I suggest you try it in Chinese? I would like to have somebody

Dave Welchstaffwho speaks Chinese and actually

Thomas Petersonlook at it. That's exactly what I would suggest is somebody who's fluent, even, and we have a lot of translators who live here and they do this for a living. Chinese and English and what have you. There are people who can help you with that. But that's one of the trickier ones. And let me just say, that's one where the translation mechanisms sometimes falter.

Catherine ReadUnderstood. Council Member Hardy-Chandler?

Stacey Hardy-ChandlerYeah, I think it would be helpful for our top spoken languages, which Korean is spoken. but I'm curious in addition to setting up parameters for words that aren't used, does it learn then? Can it adjust through use? And so will it kind of build a vocabulary around commonly used phrases or things that we tend to touch on?

Dave WelchstaffI believe we can help it learn. We can do that with the cable cast cloud captioning school board and work session meetings. We can help it develop a vocabulary if we notice things need to be changed if it's using the wrong term. C and I funding was one. I forget what it was saying but it was capturing the gist of what was being said but if you read it it didn't quite make sense. So you can go in and change it and it will learn. You have to help it learn.

Stacey Hardy-ChandlerWhen you say we, would that fall on you? And do you have the capacity to do that on an ongoing basis if this were to be implemented?

Dave WelchstaffWe have so far. It can be time consuming. We haven't had too many obstacles with helping the cloud captioning AI captioner learn so far. It's been fairly accurate. We've only had to make a few small adjustments with it. so that would be helpful if it worked that way for this service as well if we didn't have to make baskets of adjustments to the vocabulary but adjustments here and there once you do it stores them and it remembers

Stacey Hardy-Chandlerbut that would be under your purview

Dave Welchstaffright under staff in communications okay

Stacey Hardy-Chandlerjust want to make sure that there are backups for right

Catherine Readother questions or comments mine would be like how fast do we get this what do we have to do to get this like right now

Dave Welchstaffi'm sure the sales team would be willing to hear from us

Catherine Readwow i mean this is just so extraordinary i mean we've been talking about it our school board members have been talking about it i've been talking about it for for four years the fact that we have such a diverse community here and i feel like people do not participate because language is a barrier so i I would love to have an evening where we just invite all the people we know who speak native languages to just come, even if they don't stay for the whole meeting. Just come, do the app, and tell us, do quality testing. Do quality testing and tell us if the Vietnamese is accurate or if the Urdu is accurate. Because that would be such an exciting way to invite the community in to do something to help us.

but also to introduce them to the idea that they can come and participate in local government because now they understand in their native language what we're talking about. Yes, Council Member Hall.

Stacy HallCan they do this from home if they're not live in the meeting?

Dave WelchstaffI believe they have to be present in the room to do it. But I can check on that and see if they're going to develop something capturing the audio here through the microphones and it has to pass back through the system. I can check on that.

Stacy HallI just didn't know if they weren't present but they watched it either not live but if they went back and watched a recording of it if that would then be an option since it's maybe hearing it on one end and then translating it on their end maybe.

Dave WelchstaffI don't think it does but again I can check on that.

Stacy HallNot to crap on your great idea here. I mean, again, we're never going to get everybody all the time for everything, but I think we're making these steps. We're doing, we're trying, and I want to applaud you for what you've done to find this and to bring it here.

Dave WelchstaffI appreciate it.

Stacy HallThank you.

Catherine ReadI think this is gateway technology, quite frankly, because AI is out there, and we know that AI is a large language learning model, right? So So this is the gateway product. And I've said for years, I believe the technology was there. No one brought it to market as a product. This is an app, or it's not even, I don't know what this is. It's not really an app. It's something. But the point is, is that the technology exists. It's how do you bring it into a space where you can utilize it. And this is an excellent way. and I think probably how quickly this morphs into something else because the audio is already in beta. I think this is going to be fast. I think this is going to be fast. I would love for the city to be on the leading edge of us doing this

because then I think school boards and other jurisdictions and people in the Northern Virginia region, all of whom have very, very diverse populations of people, this is something that really needs to become like the basic level of expectation in local government in my opinion councilmember Hall

Stacy Halljust realized I probably asked a dumb question but how did you do this because this is a recorded right

Dave Welchstaffcorrect so in working with cable cast and media scribe we had our meeting with the city manager we realized and he had a good thought because their demo model is a council meeting from somewhere in the Midwest. And we thought, well, can't we put one of our own meetings on there? I thought, well, we might be able to. So in working with Cablecast, they said, yeah, we'll just need to talk to our engineers. Just here's the site where you can upload a video. Let's pick a meeting. And they trimmed a piece that was workable. And so it's playing in a loop right now.

Stacy HallOkay, so maybe in the future there would be an ability to upload it and then be able to stream it or send out a link or something I'm not guaranteeing anything nor am I asking you to but it sounds like there is that capability I

Matthew Kaiserstaffsee where you're going with that like

Stacy Hallif you're able

Matthew Kaiserstaffto do it for this little clip for the demo

Stacy HallYeah, why

Matthew Kaiserstaffcouldn't you do the whole meeting in whatever language you wanted it in?

Stacy HallYes.

Matthew KaiserstaffYes

Stacy HallYeah,

Matthew Kaiserstaffit's a good question

Dave Welchstaffsomething I can ask them.

Stacy HallYeah, thank you.

Daniel AlexanderstaffSo I guess one of the questions I had day was relative to a live meeting. If we're broadcasting the QR code, what prevents me from at home using the QR code and watching my translation?

Dave WelchstaffMy inclination is to say you could do that, but I don't want to say you could do that and then cable cast tell me you can't do that yet. So I'll ask them and see if that's possible. It seems like it would be on the surface, right? But I can confirm with their engineering team.

Daniel AlexanderstaffWe're going to a site from wherever we are, whether we're sitting here or if we're at home so it seems logical but certainly we'll go through that the other comment i would make is that i think that me describe has probably 1100 or so clients across the country to your point earlier about that it's developing now i'm sure not all of them are doing the translation piece there are not many they're doing it in if any in nova now but what i anticipate that this is going to continue to grow over time get better um as it learns um and so expect that If there aren't any objections, I think we move forward. We understand that it's largely a pilot in some regards, a living, breathing process. And, you know, we'll just go ahead and move forward with the process unless there are objections.

Catherine ReadUnless anybody objects, I think that this would be a great, I would love to pilot this. And it would be good to understand what the business model is, too, because thinking about the fact that you have to be in the room or somebody's going to scan a code to access this while they're here, one assumes that a subscription business model might make it available for someone to purchase this as an app. I don't know what their model is, if they're providing it to a municipal government if you're in the room, but in the future will they offer an actual app that maybe you purchase the app or there's a subscription or something. be a business model to develop something like this but I don't know what it is and you probably

don't know what it is either other than this is what they're doing right now for organizations like ours but I think in the future bringing to market a model where people can put it on their phone even if there's a cost I think people would I would do that I would do that in a heartbeat I would pay for this yes councilmember Hardy Chandler

Stacey Hardy-Chandlerso when we launched this multilingual test which is sort of could be a kickoff could we have a representative from there Attend and give us sort of the the business model at all what they're envisioning and maybe what they're anticipating in terms of future capacity I

Dave WelchstaffCould ask if they could have somebody attend but I'm sure that's information that we could ask them at least find out where they're headed but that would probably be the easiest way. What can you tell us about where you're headed? What your business model will be?

Catherine ReadAnd if you're going to go public. You don't have to ask that, but you could say. And are you going to? I'm just kidding. But this to me is like the greatest thing since sliced white bread, in my opinion. But maybe it's just because I've wanted it for such a long time. Council Member Peterson.

Thomas PetersonWell, so if I understand it, the advantage that we're after here is something we call simultaneous translation. It's real time. sequential which has delay. Sequential you can do right now. You just do a voice memo, it does a transcript, you put it into whatever translation program you want and you're done with it. So for people who are listening in, just to know if you want to do that, if you want to record this meeting, do a transcript and then a translation, you can do that on your home right away. This has the advantage of giving you live concurrent or what we call simultaneous translation so you don't have to wait and go through that drill. Is that a fair characterization of what's going on here?

Dave WelchstaffThat is fair. We had some other talks with folks who were using live translators in the room, and my counterparts of the county described a few situations with land use cases where they requested the live in-room translator, a human being, and there has to be a statement. The translator has to hear the statement. The translator has to translate the statement. And so it's kind of a, there's a block of time, a pause, another block of time, a pause. So having something like this where you're getting, yes, alive in real time, basically, translation is very helpful in those situations.

Matthew KaiserstaffYeah, seamless, natural, just conversational. That's the goal.

Catherine ReadCouncilmember Hall?

Stacy HallJust a flashback to pandemic learning for parents that had kids. I think this is more like synchronous learning as opposed to asynchronous learning, right? You're not watching the teacher tell you something after the fact. You're actually listening at the time. So good old pandemic. And I think it helps people

Catherine Readparticipate in the moment, you know, because we need to be able to hear from people and understand, and they need to understand us, especially people giving public comment. I think that's a struggle. PEOPLE ARE DOING IT IN ENGLISH AND THAT'S NOT THEIR PRIMARY LANGUAGE, IT WOULD BE GREAT IF THEY COULD DO IT IN THEIR LANGUAGE, KNOWING THAT ALL OF US WOULD HEAR EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE SAYING AS THEY ARE SAYING IT. I THINK THAT'S SUCH A GAME CHANGER. THIS IS SUCH A GAME CHANGER. JUST HUGE. COUNCILMEMBER McQUILLAN.

Rachel McQuillenI THINK THIS ALSO JUST KIND OF COMPLIMENTS, YOU KNOW, IN OUR MEETINGS WE ADDED THE CLOSED CAPTION ELEMENT, WHICH I PERSONALLY LOVE TO USE WHEN SOME OF OUR SPEAKERS THAT COME OUT FOR PUBLIC COMMENT, whether they speak too quietly or a little softly or just can't make out a word. That's been really helpful, and I just see this as being an extension of that, but for other languages. So this is great. I love this. Thank you.

Catherine ReadWow. Anything else? I think we're just all enthusiastic here, just a ball of enthusiasm right here in this room.

Dave WelchstaffSo I should make headway on this project?

Catherine ReadI think you should. I think enthusiastically, yes.

Matthew KaiserstaffThank you for your time. excited to share that. I'm glad that you felt the same way.

Catherine ReadWe're very excited. Thank you so much. Thank you. Ms. Shinneberry, what do we have next?

ShinneberryclerkWell, our last item is a discussion on the proposed FY2027 budget, general fund questions and discussion. I'm going to recognize Daniel Alexander, our city manager, for the discussion.

Daniel AlexanderstaffWe hope you're just as enthusiastic. And I will then ask our assistant city manager and CFO to lead us in this discussion, Mr. Martinez.

JC MartinezstaffSure. Thank you, City Manager. Mayor, Council, thank you for the opportunity. We are a little more than halfway through the budget process going into the beginning of April. Tonight, no structured discussion other than if you would like to review the eight budget memos that have been published. WE WILL BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO REVIEW ANY OF THEM. I KNOW SPECIFICALLY NUMBER 6, I WOULD LIKE TO BRING TO YOUR ATTENTION AND GET SOME GUIDANCE BASED ON SOME RECOMMENDATIONS AS WELL. BUT BEFORE WE GET TO BUDGET MEMO NUMBER 6, IF THERE ARE ANY SPECIFIC BUDGET MEMOS, ONE THROUGH EIGHT, THAT YOU WOULD LIKE FOR US TO REVIEW, WE DO HAVE THEM OR WE CAN BRING THEM UP ON THE SCREEN IF NEED BE. AND THAT WAY THE PUBLIC CAN REVIEW THEM OR SEE THEM AS WELL.

ADDITIONALLY, AS WE PREVIOUSLY STATED, ALL THESE HAVE BEEN POSTED ONLINE TO THE BUDGET WEB PAGE AND THEN ALSO ENGAGE. ADDITIONALLY, BEYOND THESE 8 BUDGET MEMOS, WE HAVE ALSO ANSWERED PROBABLY ABOUT 10 TO 12 EMAILS FROM CITIZENS OR RESIDENTS THAT HAVE EMALED EITHER MAYOR OR US DIRECTLY. Additionally, there have also been probably a handful, four to five questions asked through the engaged site that we've also responded to. So we are trying to be as responsive and as transparent as possible. With that, any questions, any budget memo that council would like us to review, provide further clarifying information. Do we have Council Member Peterson?

Thomas PetersonNumber eight. Sure. I think it's number one, actually. B-Pol would be helpful.

JC MartinezstaffOne in six? What was six or one in six? I

Stacy Hallthink one and six are similar.

JC MartinezstaffThey are? Yeah. So I heard budget memo one, six, and eight. Is that correct? That's what I heard. Okay. Do you want to bring up budget memo one? MS. RIDDLE.

Stacy HallI ALSO, NUMBER FIVE, JUST AS A GENERAL CONVERSATION. SURE.

JC MartinezstaffSO VERY QUICKLY, WHAT DO YOU SEE ON THE SCREEN AND ALSO WHAT WAS BEEN PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED AS BEDGWIN MEMO NUMBER ONE. I THINK THIS WAS THE FIRST ONE. SOME QUESTIONS WERE ASKED REGARDING B-POL, THE LAST TIME THAT our current B poll rates. We did engage the Commissioner of Revenue, Mr. Page Johnson, who provided us, or actually I think provided Council directly the responses. There was some follow-up with that response directly with Council. Those interactions were listed, sort of copied and pasted from those emails into the budget memo. If you go to the second page really quick, Ms. Riddle, the REVENUE DID PROVIDE SOME GRAPHICS AND A CHART THAT ARE DISPLAYED THERE UP ON THE SCREEN SORT OF GIVEN A COMPARISON OF B-POL

RATES WITHIN OUR NORTHERN VIRGINIA AREA, HOW THE CITY, WHICH IS SORT OF HIGHLIGHTED IN THAT RED OR SALMON COLOR SORT OF IN THE MIDDLE, AND THEN THE NORTHERN VIRGINIA AVERAGE AS WELL TOWARDS THE BOTTOM IN THAT GREEN OR YELLOW COLOR. MY COLOR SCHEME IS DIFFERENT THAN WHAT IS ON THE SHEET THERE OR WHAT'S BEING DISPLAYED THERE. BUT I THINK ADDITIONALLY THE COMMISSIONAL REVENUE SORT OF NOTED THAT WE WERE ALMOST AT THE MAX AT EVERY SINGLE SECTION EXCEPT FOR ONE. THAT ONE SPECIFICALLY IS IN THE PROFESSIONAL REAL ESTATE AND FINANCIAL SECTION. WE ARE CURRENTLY AT .40 WHEN THE NORTHERN VIRGINIA AVERAGE IS I THINK IN SOME CORRESPONDENCE BACK WITH COUNCIL, THE COMMISSIONER REVENUE NOTED THAT THAT MAY BE A POSSIBILITY OF A POTENTIAL INCREASE IN THAT ONE AREA.

EVERYTHING ELSE, WE ARE EITHER AT THE MAX OR AT THE STATUTARY MAX, WHICH WOULD ALSO REQUIRE EITHER GOING BACK TO THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY AND ASKING MOM AND DAD FOR PERMISSION TO INCREASE IF NEED BE. I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS OFF OF THAT.

Thomas PetersonCouncilmember Peterson? Just to clarify, how are the last two different?

JC MartinezstaffLessors of property. One more time, Councilmember. Sorry.

Thomas PetersonSo if I'm on the right graph, I've got two column sets that have the same label.

JC MartinezstaffOne's commercial, one's residential.

Thomas PetersonOkay, great. Sure. If I'm reading it correctly, the first one is one where the city is lower significantly than the region.

JC MartinezstaffCorrect. It should be, I think, the one you're referring to is less ors of property in parentheses commercial. We are at 0.23. The Northern Virginia average is 0.30. The state maximum is actually 0.23. So we are currently at the state maximum.

Thomas PetersonSo there would be that one plus professional, the professional category. Those are the two where we are a bit below.

JC MartinezstaffYes and no. So the lessors of property commercial side, we are at the max based off of what the state would allow. I would assume that in some time in the past, the state did not have a state maximum and localities had different rates. At some point the state came in and said this is the maximum and that's sort of where we are now. If we were wanting to increase that we would have to petition the General Assembly to go anything above 0.23. Unlike the other half that you mentioned Council Member Peterson, the professional real estate and financial where the STATE MAXIMUM IS .58. THE CITY IS CURRENTLY AT .40. THE NORTHERN VIRGINIA AVERAGE IS .48. THAT ONE THERE WOULD BE ROOM POTENTIALLY TO INCREASE.

Thomas PetersonSO I GUESS MY QUESTION OVERALL HERE IS WHERE WE DO HAVE OPPORTUNITIES FOR EXPANSION AND IT LOOKS LIKE WE'VE GOT SOME SPACE BETWEEN WHERE WE ARE AT LARGE AND WHERE THE REGION IS, NORTHERN VIRGINIA REGION. WHAT'S THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT effect on that in terms of business retention and expansion? Is it measurable? Is it significant? Is it insignificant? Does this make any difference at all in terms of retention and expansion of business and if so, how much? Do we have any idea based on data, based on experience from others?

JC MartinezstaffSure. Great question. Unfortunately, a question that I will not be able to answer tonight. I would ask to probably have a conference with our colleagues, whether it's the Commissioner of Revenue and Economic Development, more than likely just the Commissioner of Revenue, to see if he can provide us some of that economic data that would better inform that decision. Mr. Alexander?

Daniel AlexanderstaffI think it's an excellent segue if Council is okay with us to move into number six, because we do talk about the same and additional revenue sources.

JC MartinezstaffSo,

Stacey Hardy-Chandlerbudget memo,

JC Martinezstaffbudget memo number six, to the manager's point, and I think to where I think Councilmember Peterson, maybe Councilmember, or other Councilmembers were sort of alluding to, if we were to potentially increase that one segment in the B poll rate, that area SPECIFICALLY IN PROFESSIONAL REAL ESTATE AND FINANCIAL FROM .4 TO THE NORTHERN VIRGINIA AVERAGE OF .48. THE COMMISSION OF REVENUE DID STATE THAT BRINGING THAT UP BY THAT AMOUNT WOULD POTENTIALLY GENERATE AN ADDITIONAL ALMOST $700,000. So $698,000. He stated each additional one cent increase would yield about $87,325. So that would be a potential amount of additional revenue that has not been added or was included in the manager's proposed budget.

Again, I would need to follow up with the commissioner of revenue and try to get some of that economic data to see what the impact would potentially be if we were to do something like that. ASIDE, AGAIN, TRYING TO INCREASE THAT RATE TO THE NORTHERN VIRGINIA AVERAGE OF .48 WOULD POTENTIALLY GENERATE AN ADDITIONAL $700,000 THAT HAS NOT PREVIOUSLY BEEN ADVERTISED OR INCORPORATED IN THE FY27 PROPOSED BUDGET. THAT BEING SAID, WE ARE ON SOMEWHAT OF A TIGHT TIMELINE. I'M LOOKING AT THE CITY CLERK TO VERIFY THIS. SO, APRIL 14TH, SO NEXT Seven days from today, we will be advertising the introductions of certain rates. B poll is currently not listed in any staff report. It is, again, not listed in the manager proposed budget.

If council were to give us direction or the recommendation that we would give is to potentially add that in as a potential option or lever, it doesn't necessarily mean we have to pull that lever at a later date. WE COULD JUST INTRODUCE IT, GO THROUGH THE ADMINISTRATIVE PROCESS. IF COUNCIL SO DECIDES TO NOT DO ANYTHING TO IT, WE DON'T HAVE TO TAKE ANY ACTION ON THAT ITEM. VERY SIMILAR TO WHAT TRANSPIRED LAST YEAR WITH THE MEALS RATE WHERE WE INTRODUCED IT. IT WENT ALL THE WAY THROUGH BUDGET ADOPTION. THAT NIGHT WE ACTUALLY AFFIRMED NO ACTION, MADE NO CHANGE, BUT WE WENT THROUGH THE PROCESS. SO THAT WOULD BE A POTENTIAL RECOMMENDATION THAT STAFF WOULD GIVE, GIVEN WHERE WE ARE, of in the budget process and the administrative timing on the requirements to introduce and

advertise accordingly.

Catherine ReadCouncil Member Hall.

Stacy HallThank you. I am very much in favor of that. I think even if we didn't go that route now, it's a conversation. But I think if we don't do that and we don't introduce it next Tuesday, we've completely missed the opportunity to have potentially a new dedicated revenue source that we haven't had before. would be open to having a conversation about if some portion of this maybe could go to economic development. I know their budget was significantly slashed this year, about $300,000 or so due to the ARPA funding and some other strangities, I'll call it. But I think, you know, there's only so much that we can do with our general fund. And I think this is definitely something and not ignore.

JC MartinezstaffThank

Catherine Readyou. Council Member Peterson?

Thomas PetersonJust agreeing.

Catherine ReadOkay, Council Member Hardy-Chandler, thoughts?

Stacey Hardy-ChandlerI support things that allow us flexibility later on, so being consistent with that, I am not opposed to introducing it.

Catherine ReadCouncil Member Bates?

Stacey Hardy-ChandlerI support

Billy Batesintroducing it.

Catherine ReadCouncil Member McQuillan?

Stacy HallAbsolutely, yes.

Catherine ReadOkay, there you have it. Yes, Councilmember Hall.

Stacy HallThank you. It wasn't covered more fully and there may be a reason why this wasn't discussed further. But if we go back to budget memo one, there's and again, I'm not trying to tax the crap out of everybody. Just trying to understand. There's another line for services, business, personal repair. We're at 0.27. The northern Virginia average is 0.3. The state maximum is 0.36. Was that another area of consideration? I'm curious what that would generate, and I'm also curious what types of businesses that kind of covers and what we'd be looking at there. Sorry, one more point. Whether we jump up to .48 in our advertisement or if we decide to implement in stages, is that something that could be open for discussion

when we add an introduction to this next week? I KNOW YOU'RE LOOKING AT ME. I'M SORRY.

JC MartinezstaffWAITING TO SEE IF THERE'S ANY OTHER QUESTIONS BEFORE. NO, THOSE ARE THEM. THANK YOU. SO QUESTION, LET ME START BACKWARDS. SO QUESTION NUMBER TWO. IN DISCUSSION WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY, THIS SORT OF CAME UP, AND HIS ADVISE TO US IS VERY SIMILARLY TO THE MAX ADVERTISE RATE ON THE REAL ESTATE TAX. ONCE YOU SET IT, YOU CAN ALWAYS GO DOWN, BUT YOU CANNOT GO UP. SO OUR RECOMMENDATION WOULD BE TO ADVERTISE IF WE'RE GOING TO MAKE THE CHANGE ON THAT ONE SPECIFIC ITEM, ADVERTISE .48. IF COUNCIL SO CHOOSES COLLECTIVELY, YOU COULD REDUCE THAT TO WHEREVER YOU WANT TO GO. BUT IF YOU START AT .41, YOU CANNOT GO ABOVE .41. SO OUR RECOMMENDATION WOULD BE ADVERTISE THE MAX. IF NEED BE, PULL BACK.

Stacy HallTHANK YOU VERY MUCH.

JC MartinezstaffI WOULD

Stacy HallAGREE WITH THAT.

JC Martinezstaffnumber one it's because I'm going in reverse services like you noted was 0.27 the northern Virginia average is 0.3 difference of about three basis points I would need to get with the commissioner revenue see how much potential revenue that would generate I think the reason we did not recommend a change to that is that there was not as much variance between the 0.4 AND THE .48. IT IS VERY COMPARABLE ON .27 TO .3. IF YOU LOOK AT SOME OF THE OTHER NORTHERN VIRGINIA'S RATES, THEY ARE PRETTY COMPARABLE. AGAIN, THE AVERAGE IS .3. YES, THE STATE MAXIMUM IS .36. WE COULD POTENTIALLY GO UP TO THAT AMOUNT. I CAN HAVE FURTHER DISCUSSIONS WITH THE COMMISSIONER REVENUE IF NEED BE. THAT WOULD BE ANOTHER ITEM THAT IF COUNCIL SO CHOOSES, WE COULD ALSO

INTRODUCE AS WELL. MAYBE AT .36 OR .30. I DON'T KNOW WHAT COUNCIL'S SORT OF FEELING OR THOUGHT IS ON THAT RIGHT NOW.

Stacy HallI'M NOT SAYING YES, DEFINITELY, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO UNDERSTAND IS THAT ANOTHER $600,000 IN REVENUE OR IS THIS A $60,000 REVENUE DIFFERENCE? I THINK THOSE MIGHT BE KEY DIFFERENTIALS FOR, AGAIN, IS THE JUICE WORTH THE SQUEEZE OR WHAT ARE WE LOOKING AT?

JC MartinezstaffI can try to get you that information as quickly as possible.

Stacy HallThank

JC Martinezstaffyou. As noted, we would have to get something introduced and published by the end of business tomorrow, if I'm not mistaken.

Stacy HallOkay. For me, it would be nice to know how much we're talking about before we commit to advertising something like that.

JC MartinezstaffSure.

Stacy HallBut I don't expect anyone to pull it out of their back pocket at the moment either.

Catherine ReadWell, so my concern is that we will not have a chance to have a discussion in the next 24 hours. So if we are of the mind that it's better to put it out there and say no, then it is yes than to say let's try to do something, but we can't communicate. We can't talk about it. So I sort of feel like if you think there's something there, and maybe there's nothing there there, But if you think there's something there and everybody agrees, let's put it out there as an introduction and then we find out,

Stacy Halleh,

Catherine Readit's not meh. Then we just pull back and we're like, we're not going to do that.

Stacy HallThat was going

Catherine Readto be my

Stacy Hallrequest of council to consider, but thank you.

Catherine ReadIt sounds like everybody's on board with giving ourselves flexibility. You can always say no after the fact, but we cannot in 24 hours regroup and have a discussion about this. So I think we're better off just doing it, getting the information so that it can be discussed at a future meeting.

JC MartinezstaffSure. And we'll do, I mean, you'll see it in the introduction because it needs to be published, but we'll probably do another budget memo as well in conjunction in coordination with the commission of revenue so that way you clearly understand, council, the body understands what the thought process was and what the values would be as well. So we could definitely do that. If I can sort of go back to budget memo six because I heard something on potentially earmarking or setting aside some money for economic development. In addition, or the second part of budget memo number six, we talk about the TOT, the transit occupancy tax. That's sort of on the second page. I think Ms. Riddle has it up perfect.

So currently we are introducing that rate subject to legislation being passed. It was introduced. It seems like it's favorable. We will not know until the 13th of April. But in discussion again with the city attorney, he's suggesting that we introduce it contingent upon the formal approval from the General Assembly. Given that, we've met the introduction process. AT 4%, WE WOULD BE RECOMMENDING, AND THIS WAS SORT OF BUILT INTO THE BUDGET, VIA SIGNED FUND BALANCE, AS SORT OF DISCUSSED IN THE MEMO, TO 9%. IF THERE IS POTENTIAL DESIRE AND RECOMMENDATION FROM STAFF IS POTENTIALLY INCREASING THAT, ANOTHER 3%. SO GOING FROM 9% TO 12%. AGAIN, 9% IS THE AVERAGE AMOUNT WITHIN NORTHERN VIRGINIA WHEN YOU

Arlington and Alexandria if we were to go from a potential 9 to 12 percent that would generate about another three hundred and seventy five thousand dollars it is noted in the budget memo that council may designate those revenues for a specific purpose such as economic development or allow those funds to remain unrestricted for the general fund we can definitely have those discussions at a later time again right now the way that it's listed in the introduction it is at 9% so I'm asking and staff is sort of recommending potentially going up to 12% but sort of need guidance from from counsel on that

Catherine Readso the the thing I would would raise here is we don't have a lot of hotels in the city and I don't know even know that all the hotels that are in the city are to be a going concern because there might be one that's for sale. So raising the tax rate is one thing, but the reason that the number is so small at 375 is that it doesn't matter how high it is, we're just not, the revenue's not there. I mean, in the future, we could build more hotels, but I don't think that's going to happen in the next three years, three to five years. So when you think about raising it to 12% it sounds like it's a high number but it applies to a very small number of properties so to get any significant income from the TOT

you almost have to go higher because there's just not enough properties to produce anything so that's just my two cents worth but Council Member Hall thoughts on that

Stacy Hallyeah I think it's kind of like the others where I think going good number to start with and to put out there for a public hearing. To your point, we don't have a ton of hotels, but what we do have is anticipated to bring in an extra $625,000 if we went to 9%, and then to bring in another $375,000 on top of that. So that's like an extra million dollars right there. And most people that are paying this in most cases are not city residents that are here and all of that. And the hope for me, at least, is that we do become a bit of a tourism destination and that we start to have some additional hotels and opportunities. So I would be all in for these. And I also, I do want to thank you for the work that went into the outside-the-box thinking

of something beyond real estate taxes. I think we've been strongly reliant on that, and I'm really happy to see that we're considering these other options. So thank you.

JC MartinezstaffAnd, Council Member, really quickly, AND IT'S ON THE SCREEN RIGHT NOW AS WELL. SO YOUR MATH WASN'T TOO FAR OFF, AND YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. IT'S ABOUT AN ADDITIONAL $1.1 MILLION, OR THE EQUIVALENT OF 1.21 CENTS ON THE CURRENT REAL ESTATE TAX RATE, BY DOING THESE TWO CHANGES. THE B-POL CHANGE, SPECIFICALLY, AND WE CAN INCORPORATE WHAT THE CHANGE WOULD BE ON THE OTHER SIDE, BUT THE 698 THAT'S LISTED THERE IS GOING FROM .40 TO .48 IN THAT ONE CATEGORY, AND THEN GOING FROM 9 TO 12 PERCENT IS AN ADDITIONAL 375 ON THE TOT. COMBINE THOSE TWO, THAT'S ABOUT 1.1 MILLION, NOT INCLUDING THE OTHER POTENTIAL B-POL ASPECT OF IT.

Stacy HallSO MAY I?

JC MartinezstaffYES, GO AHEAD.

Stacy HallTHANK YOU. I'm on budget memo six, I think. On page two, it talks about the TOT. It says increasing the current rate from four to nine is estimated to generate approximately 625,000 in additional tax revenue. So I was taking the 625 plus then if we went from nine to 12, it would be another 375. So I was looking at 625 and 375 to get a million. but that doesn't include the, is it because the 625 is already in the budget? I knew we

Speaker 14were getting there together. All

Stacy Hallright. But either way, we are looking at substantially more revenue than we have been generating previously with these same categories. So thank you for your clarification.

Catherine ReadCouncil Member

Thomas PetersonPeterson. So two questions. The similar question we had on B poll, which is what's the sensitivity, the demand sensitivity to the higher tax. Is that significant in terms of, you know, occupancy? Does it do anything to hurt the economic performance of the hotels? I don't know. But it just would be good to know where we are within that band of price sensitivity for them. The second thing is in terms of where if we do collect some set of funds, whether they go to or stay in an unrestricted and general fund or are set aside for economic development, I take it that that is an open option at this stage, and we could make a decision about what we'd want in the future. And to the extent that that is an option we talk about,

I'd like a little bit more background information about what the purpose and need of those funds would be in economic development, and then relative to keeping in the general fund as well. I'd just like some clarity about what

JC Martinezstaffwe're dealing with there. Sure, and we can provide that. OF BACKGROUND, A CURRENT EDA BOARD MEMBER I THINK WORKS OR REPRESENTS THE HOTEL INDUSTRY AND IS ACTUALLY ADVOCATING TO INCREASE OUR TOT AS WELL BECAUSE SHE IS AWARE THAT WE ARE WAY BELOW THE AVERAGE AND I THINK THAT'S WHY WE INTRODUCED IT AS A BODY TO THE LEGISLATION, TRYING TO BRING IT UP TO AT LEAST THE AVERAGE NORTHERN VIRGINIA, AGAIN THAT'S ABOUT 9%, SO WE'RE TRYING TO GET TO THAT. ANYTHING ABOVE THAT AND THE RECOMMENDATION FROM THE EDA SPECIFICALLY THIS MEMBER WAS TO TRY TO SET SOME OF THAT MONEY ASIDE SPECIFICALLY REINVESTED BACK INTO THE EDO OR EDA SPECIFICALLY IN TOURISM AS WELL. I THINK COUNCIL WOULD BE FULLY AWARE EVEN MORE SO THAN THE

MEALS TAX, THESE TAXES ARE PROBABLY ALMOST 100% PAID BY Individuals that would come and stay here more than likely don't live here. That's why they're in a hotel room. So it is really reducing the burden on the residents and their real estate tax rate by trying to reassign that potential revenue to the TOT.

Catherine ReadAnd honestly, I stayed in the Hotel Roanoke last weekend and couldn't tell you what the TOT was. DIDN'T EVEN LOOK ON THE BILL TO SEE WHAT THE TOT WAS WHEN I STAYED THERE BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW. IT'S JUST WHAT IT COST. MAYBE THAT'S JUST ME. I'M PROBABLY VERY CARELESS ABOUT NOT LOOKING AT WHAT THE TOT IS. I DIDN'T. REALLY, I'M LIKE YOU STAY THERE, YOU STAY THERE. THAT'S WHAT IT IS.

Thomas PetersonIN

Catherine ReadSOME

Thomas PetersonCASES, YOU JUST WANT TO GET OUT OF THE HOTEL SO FAST.

Catherine ReadAND THAT'S TRUE, TOO. SO DO WE SEEM TO HAVE CONSENSUS HERE THAT WE WANT TO LOOK AT 12 AS A STARTING POINT BECAUSE WE CAN ALWAYS PULL BACK? seeing a lot of consensus here that this is another one where we give ourselves flexibility to do something else

JC Martinezstaffany other budget memos that council would like to review

Thomas Petersonnumber eight

JC MartinezstaffSO BUDGET MEMO 8 IS A, IT DEALS WITH REFERENDUM, THE USE OF REFERENDUM OR THE USE OF NONREFERENDUM REGARDING CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROJECTS. WE COORDINATED WITH CITY ATTORNEY ALONG WITH OUTSIDE BOUND COUNCIL AND THEN ALSO OUR FINANCIAL ADVISORS DAVENPORT IN PUTTING TOGETHER THIS PRETTY INCLUSIVE AND EXHAUSTIVE MEMO A FIVE-PAGE MEMO GAVE A LOT OF HISTORICAL AND BROKE IT DOWN IN THREE AREAS. SO HISTORICAL CITY INFORMATION AND PRACTICE AND UTILIZING REFERENDUMS FOR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROJECTS, AN OVERVIEW OF COMMON PRACTICES ACROSS THE COMMONWEALTH, AGAIN GIVEN THAT OUR BOND COUNCIL DEALS WITH NUMEROUS LOCALITIES, SO DOES OUR FINANCIAL ADVISORS, DAVENPORT, AND THEN ANY RELEVANT LEGAL AND POLICY REFERENCES.

So is there anything specifically that council wanted to touch on in those three areas or on budget memo eight?

Catherine ReadYes.

Thomas PetersonCouncil Member Peterson. So just to cut to the chase, my reading of this, and I'm going to stand corrected if I don't have the right read here, is that whether for the big ticket items or the small ticket items, there's pluses and minuses associated with handling either of them with a referendum or not, for that matter. And without unpacking all of that, and I think, again, there are kind of pluses and minuses because there are different circumstances, et cetera. I guess the question I have to ask is really about policy and practice. Every year we have a great big stack of CIP items in front of us, which includes all of the above. And it would seem to me that that would be a good time to have the conversation about what are we doing with these

and what are we doing with new things and are any of these applicable potentially for a referendum. have the conversation and that's really a matter of practice that we would do it. The next question is whether that needs to be affirmed or required with a policy so that we actually have the conversation each year. But it would just seem to me that that's something that would be an important and prudent thing for us to do rather than necessarily attempting to set some sort of a bright line which I think is a little bit difficult under the circumstances. But the bright line is problematic, but having nothing whatsoever is equally, if not more, problematic. And I would be curious to your feedback on that.

Catherine ReadMr. Alexander.

Daniel AlexanderstaffYeah, I think, you know, generally we try to stick primarily to our practice as we talked about this. Drew some comparisons in this document to show that what we're doing is pretty consistent with other jurisdictions. I think the reality from a policy standpoint is that Referendum is an option for for council to consider on all these large projects And so, you know, we're open to that. I think as we go through the CIP process, it's certainly something that You know needs to be on the table from the perspective of it's an option for us I think you made made the point that there there's some potential limitations around referendum it kind of fast tracks us right into a policy decision, meaning our citizens into policy decision.

In a lot of ways, we have more discussion around things that aren't in a referendum, but it's an option for us. And I think, you know, it's a long way of saying we certainly recognize that, you know, council may choose on certain projects to go to referendum. And we certainly understand that, appreciate that, and see that as an option.

Thomas PetersonWell, and then, again, as a matter of practice, it would seem to me that it would be helpful to lay out a rationale that the council could use for sorting through that decision. And, again, cats and dogs, we're going to have a lot of different CIP items here, and they're going to vary. and just sorting through how we deal with all that would be an enormous help because where we are right now is we don't do that as a council, as a body, I think, at all.

Daniel AlexanderstaffYeah, I think the, interestingly, there's some projects that are going to be smaller projects that we're probably not going to have that discussion on. I think on the larger ones, it certainly makes sense. And I think we can lay out what the options mean in terms of sequencing and process as we talk about those larger items. We know there's some coming up. Property yard is just a perfect example. I think you had a number that's larger in our conversations than I recalled. It's going to be a big number. So we certainly need to talk about how we're going to approach that project just based on the sheer amount of money. and certainly referendum would be on the table for something like that.

Thomas PetersonWell, then just to, as a matter of practice, stretch the conversation a little bit because it would seem to me, setting aside the question mark of whether we use a referendum in any one of these cases, I think this is really in your court from a management perspective, but it comes to our court to ensure that we are doing everything we can to get the best bead we possibly can on one of these projects at its outset to avoid a situation where we have unexpected cost increases. And, you know, so the value of a referendum is it forces your hand to do that homework up front. The downside of that is you're stuck, right? And you're on a short lease, you know, so it robs you of the flexibility. So I don't know what the remedy is for taking actions to ensure we're doing all that we

need to to get the earliest best understanding of the cost estimate to avoid the risk of cost escalations. Again, the referendum raises that and forces it, but I think independent of that from a good practice standpoint we ought to be doing it. I would be just curious if you have any thoughts at this stage on that because we've seen a bit of that.

Daniel AlexanderstaffYeah, it's a really great point in the sense that if we get into projects that are large they're going to be long in time most likely, which means we're at risk, larger risk for those escalations to occur in a lot of ways. So that is a potential pitfall, you know, around that process. Going out, getting an affirmation, and then getting to the point where it's a concept largely, and then it becomes real when we start to really design to, you know, what our expectations are, and then the dollar amount following after that. to your point, worthy of having that conversation every time we approach these large projects about how we're going to finance it and what methodology we're going to use from either referendum or

our traditional model.

Thomas PetersonMy very last question is this absolutely is not a criticism of the Willard Sherwood project because if ever there's a project here, it's a big ticket item that has not escalated, that's it. I mean that cost number has stuck and then come down a little bit. So again, no criticism whatsoever of that project from a cost management perspective. However, it did not go through a referendum and it is a big ticket item. Any history or rationale on that?

Daniel AlexanderstaffI wasn't there for that one but I'm decision-wise.

JC MartinezstaffI wasn't there either. I think again, What was sort of listed in the memo is that the City Council in the past along with staff have recommended certain projects depending on what their values would be. Traditionally it seems like schools given that the amount of investment that would be needed is pretty significant those go through referendum. Smaller amounts usually do not. I think in the past 20 years in reviewing all of our debt issuance non-schools there's only been one 2000s and that was actually for where we're at right now the city annex in conjunction with the police headquarters. Those two projects were combined and then those were done on a referendum basis. Other than that, all other projects have gone in non-referendum.

If I could very quickly go to page three towards the end, our bond attorney actually wanted me per se to illustrate that the City of Fairfax is among a small number of jurisdictions with charter provisions that are more restrictive than general state law. So he listed the examples there and then if you go into page four there's even more information that we operate under again a more restrictive debt authorization framework than many jurisdictions in the Commonwealth and relies on non-referendum financing tools for routine or programmatic capital needs. There are other examples of relevant legal policy references again that show that we have historically utilized financing structures such as subject to appropriations or moral obligation debt

to fund certain capital needs without referendum and there's certain instances that are listed there and then also gives the legal framework that Supreme THAT ALLOWED AND REAFFIRMED THAT LOCALITIES CAN DO THIS. AS NOTED, I THINK IN ONE OF THESE AREAS, WE ACT MORE LIKE A COUNTY THAN A CITY, GIVEN THE RESTRICTIONS THAT WE HAVE. IF THAT HELPS PROVIDE ANY COMFORT TO COUNCIL AND OR THE RESIDENTS, THAT THERE ARE CURRENT RESTRICTIONS. BUT AS THE MANAGER NOTED, WE COULD DEFINITELY TRY TO PROVIDE A FRAMEWORK of trying to evaluate certain projects and when they would potentially be asked to be brought via referendum versus just an appropriation.

Daniel AlexanderstaffI think a big part of this, regardless of the mechanism we use, is that resident engagement piece. And ultimately, even if there's determination that we want to go to referendum, we get approval on referendum, we need to make sure that we're clear that there's a tax impact. AND OFTENTIMES THAT YOU KNOW THAT COULD GET LOST IF WE TAKE A WHILE TO GET TO THE TO TO GO YOU KNOW AND SO YOU KNOW THAT THE ENGAGEMENT CAN'T BE JUST AT THE BEGINNING YOU KNOW OR THE MIDDLE YOU KNOW OR THE END IT'S GOT TO BE ALL THROUGHOUT THE PROCESS REGARDLESS OF WHAT MECHANISM WE USE TO ENSURE OUR RESIDENTS ARE ENGAGED

Catherine ReadCANDEMBER HALL

Stacy HallTHANK YOU I I TOO AM IN SUPPORT OF DISCUSSING THIS FURTHER AND HAVING YOU KNOW SOME ADDITIONAL THOUGHTS ON IT I did want to point out a conversation or a statement I think that you, Mr. Martinez, made last time we discussed this, which is that there are many opportunities for public comment, public outreach, public meetings, public, public, public for all of these things. And I understand that part of it in here talks about how, you know, the voter process may delay it a little bit. We're in Virginia. We vote every year. So there's almost always a ballot that we can throw something on. But I did also want to point out what you had said last time, too, which was that there's only a certain length of time in which after you do the referendum in which you have to act.

And so that in the case of Willard Sherwood, let's say we might be bumping up against that timeline. So I think in recognizing that challenge when you're working through the framework, I think those are, I'm sure, things that you will be thinking about. And I just recently learned about them. But they're just things that I think that we want to try to keep engaging with the community on. Personally, I don't think a referendum is a bad thing. I think especially when you're spending tens or hundreds of millions of resident tax dollars. I mean, I think, you know, when you said before, and I understand it was the equivalent of 158 or a million, whatever it was, but there's certain things that a building of this size, the police renovation, you know, the police station, those are big things.

You know, kind of like the property yard is a big thing, and Willard Sherwood is a big thing, and the schools are a big thing. big things like that since the city was kind of established and created and they did all the big things early on. But we are now faced with finding the money to do these renovations of these big things or to build the next big thing because our buildings are aging. Our infrastructure is, you know, starting to go despite great years of maintenance and operations and all that. But things don't last forever. You know, we all see that with our houses. My house was built in 69. I THINK THIS IS A GOOD CONVERSATION. I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR POINTING OUT SOME OF THE AREAS ABOUT THE

GENERAL OBLIGATION VERSUS NOT AND HOW WE TEND TO OPERATE MORE LIKE A COUNTY THAN A CITY IN COMPARISON. I THINK WE DO TRY TO HAVE THE APPROPRIATE CHECKS AND BALANCES. I THINK WE ARE FACING A LOT OF NEW THINGS OR NEW AGAIN THINGS TO OUR CURRENT RESIDENTS HERE. I THINK WE ARE FACING A LOT OF NEW THINGS. THAT ARE BIG TICKET. THANK YOU.

Thomas PetersonJUST TO MAYBE ADD TO THAT AND DOUBLE CHECK IF I'VE GOT MY NUMBERS RIGHT. I THINK, OH, GOSH, IT WAS MAYBE EARLIER THIS YEAR AS WELL AS LAST FALL, WE WERE PROVIDED AN ESTIMATE, A BEST UNDERSTANDING OF THE SET OF CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROJECTS over two five-year spans or decadal span from 20 starting in 2026 to 2035 but 10 years of CIP, half and half, over a billion dollars. And the first half of it, if I recall my math right, is like basically $520 million and the second half is $500 million, which is entirely an expectation around school renovation. I think from my standpoint, the takeaway on that is This is a big number. This is a big package. This is a heck of a lot for this city to have to digest realistically in a relatively short period of time.

And the capacity that is required to implement a CIP program at that scale over that period of time is not insignificant. It's a stretch. It's a challenge. It needs to be thought through in a very sober manner here for the city. So I say that just to underscore the need to have this very serious conversation about how are we approaching this package. The referendum approach is a tool, but there are other tools, there are other strategies for what has become a very, very large package in comparison to historically what we've done in the city. I could be wrong. It may be that we've been here at that level before, but my read is that we're in a different future situation. IT WOULD BE GOOD TO GET SOME FEEDBACK ON THAT.

JC MartinezstaffYOUR MEMORY IS CORRECT, COUNCILMEMBER PETERSON. AT THE NOVEMBER BUDGET RETREAT, WE DID SHOW SOME CIP SANDWICH SLIDES, IS WHAT I CALLED THEM. IN ONE OF THOSE SLIDES, IT DID SHOW A PROJECTED FUTURE SPEND. ABOUT HALF OF IT, HALF A BILLION DOLLARS, WAS ATTRIBUTABLE TO A POTENTIAL FUTURE RENOVATION OF THE HIGH SCHOOL AND THEN ALSO THE MIDDLE SCHOOL. THOSE TWO PROJECTS ARE NOT 100% SCOPE. SCHOOLS HAS NOT COME FORWARD. IT WAS JUST BASED OFF OF THE SEPTEMBER 2023 FEASIBILITY STUDY DONE BY MOSLEY THAT IDENTIFIED ALL SCHOOLS AND AT SOME POINT THOSE WILL BE NEED TO BE RENOVATED AS WELL. AND THOSE WERE THE ANTICIPATED PROJECTIONS AT THAT TIME. ADDITIONALLY, YOU ALSO HAVE OTHER INFRASTRUCTURE INTERNALLY, THE PROPERTY YARD BEING ONE OF THE LARGER ONES

AT ABOUT $120, $160 MILLION CURRENTLY THAT'S BEING PROJECTED AS WELL. SO ABSOLUTELY LARGE TICKET ITEMS. I THINK COUNCIL MEMBER HALL SUMMARIZED IT VERY WELL. THESE ARE GENERATIONAL INVESTMENTS. PROBABLY THE LAST TIME THAT THE CITY HAD SIGNIFICANT CAPITAL INVESTMENTS OF THIS MAGNITUDE WAS WHEN IT WAS FOUNDED 60-SE ODD YEARS AGO. AND NOW WE'RE SORT OF AT THAT POINT WHERE WE NEED TO RENOVATE AND OR CONSTRUCT NEW AS WELL. So absolutely correct, sir.

Catherine ReadCouncilmember Bates.

Billy BatesSo first off, do you happen to know off the top of your head if the city library, was that a city CIP project or was that split with the county? Do you know?

JC Martinezstaffthat was a city CIP project that

Billy Bateswe

JC Martinezstaffare paying debt on yep

Billy Batesyeah yeah but that did not go to a referendum it did not right okay thank you so that I think is something that is um perhaps somewhat comparable um to uh the Willard Sherwood project um and uh perhaps uh let me think what um Do you recall, was that like 08 or late 2000s, I think?

JC MartinezstaffAround that time frame. I don't remember the specific year.

Billy BatesSo recent history. And so additionally, let's say that we wanted to do a referendum for the Willard Sherwood Center. Is there time in the timeline to do that, you know, based on when we need to issue those bonds?

JC MartinezstaffI think council member Hall was sort of bringing that up. So we'll use the school referendum because that's pretty recent where once a referendum passes, the clock starts. You have eight years where you can pull debt off of that approved referendum. You could ask the circuit court for a two-year extension. But beyond that, so a maximum of 10 years is the limit that you would have to pull debt associated and directly tied to that approval of that referendum. if you don't complete pulling debt within that time frame you would have to and if you need to do another referendum if you still need to renovate and or complete construction of that project

Billy Batesso um so what about like uh when we would need to um start, you know, issuing that debt in order to have the project go forward on the timeline that we're on right now?

JC MartinezstaffIf we're talking about schools or Wheelard Sherwood, if we're talking about Wheelard Sherwood, we would be issuing debt now. We did not do a referendum. So we have at the grace or at the time frame that we want to. With schools, we would have to issue debt, which we are planning on as a part of the FY27 budget, to issue debt in FY27, not all 220 in year one, but in tranches over the next seven years.

Billy BatesSo on the other hand, for something like that, would doing a public hearing sort of in lieu of a referendum be an option?

JC MartinezstaffNot necessarily for a referendum. I think when we do...

Billy BatesWell, I mean, like, you know, for something that wouldn't otherwise require a referendum, if we wanted to instead have a public hearing, even though neither is necessarily required, you know, is that an option? I

JC Martinezstaffthink we do that already during the budget process. While Council is considering the FYX budget and we're reviewing the CIP that's a part of the budget, we have numerous work sessions and public hearings that the public can attend all related to the budget and either provide feedback for or against that specific item. I think that's what Councilmember Hall was alluding to where there is slightly more public ENGAGEMENT DURING THAT PROCESS, BUT TO HER POINT, YOU DO IN VIRGINIA, YOU CAN'T VOTE EVERY SINGLE YEAR AS WELL. SO IT'S A LITTLE BIT OF BOTH IN THAT RESPECT.

Billy BatesTHAT'S A GOOD POINT. THANK YOU.

Catherine ReadCOUNCIL MEMBER HALL?

Stacy HallI WANT TO BE CLEAR, I WAS NOT SUGGESTING THAT WE DO A REFERENDUM FOR THE WILLARD SHERWOOD CENTER. I WANT TO MAKE THAT SHORT. I ALSO DID JUST GOGLE WHILE YOU The library was built in 2008 and then renovated and it said the new building costs about $16 million, financed through a partnership between the city and the county. The city sold 30-year bonds to build it and in return the county will not charge the city its $700,000 annual library services fee, which is normally a charge levied by the county in exchange for making library services. So, yes, it is something that we took out bonds for, but I do think the cost differential is rather different with regard to the $16 million. I don't know what $16 million then would be worth now, but maybe it's a little bit closer than I think.

But, yeah. I don't mean to, like, run the agenda. I just have one more question about another budget memo if we're done with this one.

Catherine ReadSure. Yes, Councilmember Hall.

Stacy HallOkay, thank you. It's just a very quick question comment for budget memo number five, which was regarding the meals tax. I just wanted to point out for those at home that might not be reading the budget memos as we are. The question I had asked was whether the increase in the meals tax revenue was based upon the cost of food inflation or whether or not we were seeing more people actually in our restaurants. and I also want to point out to the credit of the EDA for all they do and bringing in new businesses and Chamber of Commerce and all those for kind of, you know, keeping things going here. Based upon what staff has shared here is that the increase in the meals tax is relatable to increased traffic in our restaurants and not increased food costs. So I think that that's

good to know that we are doing bigger and better in the city and it's not just because things are So thank you for putting that one together.

Catherine ReadAnd I will just insert as a point of privilege that two of our restaurants received Ramy finalists. Elise in the city is a finalist in fine dining, and Andy's Pizza is also a finalist for Ramy Awards. That just came out today. I know, Andy. So I just want to say, very proud, super proud that two of our restaurants have been nominated for Ramy Awards. Okay. Councilmember Peterson.

Thomas PetersonJust to clarify what we are doing with budget memo eight it sounds like we're just looking forward at some point to hear more about how to structure a thought process around this. That's probably not the best way to describe this but we'll be hearing back from you at some point. Is that where this is? Yeah

Daniel Alexanderstaffit could be well I would suggest that as we as we look at these projects and fortunately in this budget we know what's right in front of us but as we start talking cip for some of these other projects in in future cycles that we include this process the how we're going to fund it process as part of that discussion and very early on get council direction on how we want to proceed i think you know again we try to keep this neutral to the extent of describing our history and how we've come up to this point certainly counts as prerogative as we approach these large projects to say we want to go out for a referendum.

Thomas PetersonSo I'm not jumping there. What I'm responding to I think was the thought that you shared that I probably prompted, which is that we could have a rationale of some sort developed to help us through those kinds of decisions when we get to them to give us we currently have.

Daniel AlexanderstaffIt may, and I'm just speaking on the top of my head, it may be a function, again, of looking at the project that's in front of us, looking at what is involved in terms of potential sequencing, and then building in alternative funding models based on that project that's in front of you. Some of them are going to be probably easier than others in the sense that you see the total costs associated with it. some may be a little more nuanced in that gray area. Council makes a call at that point to decide how they want to approach, you know, the individual projects that we bring to you. If that makes sense.

Thomas PetersonWell, is this purely case by case or in addition to that, is there something broader and more systematic that helps us kind of know what we're heading into here?

Daniel AlexanderstaffI think it's case by case. But, and I think as we've talked it through, that as we get into projects that have different variables, and I think the property yard's a great example, that could be multiple sites over multiple years. There could be some other options that come to the table around partnerships. So, you know, all of that's going to, I think, factor into the decisions that we make on how we approach the funding from, you know, the traditional mechanism that we've used, really quite frankly you know whether we do the the funding process through bonds and and we make the decision or we go out to a residence through a referendum.

Catherine ReadSo I'm just gonna give us a time check it's 1024 because that has been requested and I just just did that for you Ms. Shinneberry. It's 1024 so other QUESTIONS? COUNCIL MEMBER HALL.

Stacy HallJUST TO WRAP UP ON THE REFERENDUM THING, I THINK MAYBE PUT A PIN IN IT TO BORROW THE MAYOR'S PHRASE. I'M INTERESTED IN DISCUSSING IT. I THINK WE PROBABLY HAVE BIGGER FRESH TO FRIE AT THE MOMENT AND IT'S NOT GOING TO BE ANOTHER IMMEDIATE NEED FOR A LITTLE BIT LATER BUT I DON'T WANT TO LET IT COMPLETELY GO OFF THE WAYSIDE. I DO WORRY ABOUT PUTTING SOMETHING IN THAT'S TOO STRUCTURED. BUT I WOULD LIKE TO REVISIT THIS IN THE FUTURE. IT SOUNDS LIKE THERE'S SUPPORT FOR THAT AS WELL. SO NOW OFF OF BUDGET FOR A MOMENT, JUST GENERAL THING. I KNOW WE DON'T GET COUNCIL COMMENTS TONIGHT. BUT I DID REACH OUT TO EACH OF MY COLLEAGUES. THE ONLY PERSON I DIDN'T HEAR BACK FROM WAS COUNCILMEMBER AMOS, WHICH IS EXPECTED BECAUSE HE

is away. But I just wanted to bring this to staff's attention. I know I emailed with Anna Safford, our urban forester, but there have been several properties in neighborhoods that have taken down an extraordinary number of trees without getting proper permits. And it was heartbreaking to see what happened recently to a couple in my neighborhood. And so I reached out with some questions and I was told that the current city code dates back to the 1970s with no updates since then. Let me back up just a minute. So people that need permits are in zoning districts RL, RM, and RH and on a lot that is greater than or equal to one half acre and only if the tree is greater than or equal to five inches in caliper and I think that's at chest height. So this really leaves, which I didn't

realize that was a pun, but this leaves much of the city without a permit requirement even in single-family home and townhome communities. So what I was proposing to my colleagues was that could we reconsider this for both lot size and the applicable zones, especially with all the new development coming in, and that was when I had asked when it was last reviewed. So just to be shared that information with my colleagues, and I said, you know, I had serious concerns about these things, and there was support from everyone that responded to me, so five out of the six here, including myself, support looking into it, and I understand that this is something that is likely, hopefully going to be covered in part of the tree conservation text amendment package that's coming up soon,

so I don't mean to put more work on staff but I was really really really devastated to see what happened in my neighborhood and the fact that kind of putting all those steps together that anyone in most neighborhoods around here can just take out whatever trees they want at any time and I know I believe Anna Safford had said that I could be wrong 70% of our tree canopy is on private property and we're not protecting that as far as I'm concerned

Catherine ReadThank you for that. This is the first I'm hearing of it. So it's certainly something I think we should investigate, but we should also be cognizant of the fact that Virginia is a property rights state, too. So I want to protect trees, but people also own their property that their house sits on. So we have to have balance. That's fine. But I would just say, and I would have said at the time, I think it's worth looking at, but we have to be cognizant of the fact that we want to protect trees, and we are a property rights state, Like, I planted 11 trees in my yard because they were taken down when my house was renovated. There wasn't a tree on my lot when I moved in. But there needs to be balance.

And so I think this is one of these things where robust public engagement would be appropriate here to balance out the health of tree canopies and also people by their homes and some of those trees. we were talking about this actually at Easter dinner because the house that I used to own on Woodhaven has a tulip poplar in it that's probably 70 feet high and should never have been planted in the front yard. No offense to the people who own that house out. But the point is if it comes down if it comes down it takes out a lot of things including other people's property. So people are taking down trees preemptively so it doesn't fall over and take out their house, somebody else's house with power lines

and these are the kinds of things where I think we need to have Anna Safford speak to us. I think we need to consider under work circumstances people can take down trees preemptively before they fall over but the owners, they are my neighbors, I mean they are my neighbors but I'm just saying when I moved into that house in 2003 it was huge. It's an age there's a life cycle to trees and I don't want people to wait until their trees fall over so we really have to be very considered about under what circumstances are we requiring people to seek permits or permission because I'd rather a 70-foot tall tree that is probably that house was built in 1954 that's how old that tree is so balance just balance councilmember Hall

Stacy Halland I I totally respect and understand that. And I think we probably all or many of us have that one tree in our yard or our neighbor's yard that we are worried about. This was full-on clear-cutting of two entire properties. One was done years ago, and it was right when we were doing the, I believe it was the inaugural Halloween parade in Cobbdale, and it was the house that was right next to the park. So I don't even know how many emails and calls the city received about that. I actually was not one of them. It was just devastating. So I completely understand that. But I also think that there is an education component and a responsible city leadership of we understand you want to take out X trees or Y trees for these reasons.

And we will help you with planting new trees that are going to take two more homeowner cycles or generations in order to grow. So it's not an all or nothing, but I just I think especially since it hasn't been looked at since the 70s I do think there's room for improvement. So that was all I wasn't trying to take away anyone's tree rights, but

Thomas Petersonthere's room. When is the next time we're going to be speaking with Anna Safford about urban forestry for the council and where this is going as whether that would be an appropriate time To understand this a little bit more clearly.

Daniel AlexanderstaffI don't know the specific date, but we'll certainly come back And let you know. I think you were right. We talked a little bit about the other text amendments, but I'm gathering from council that you want to have a broader discussion about this.

Thomas PetersonChair Greg Musil, Well, and I think all these points are really fair and well taken. From my standpoint, I'm still a little bit confused on the patchwork. Some places you can't, some places you can't, and whatever. It just would be kind of nice, given that this is a real thing happening and more of it's going to happen. So if we could just doing that it would be great we'll bring it back

Daniel Alexanderstaffto

Thomas Petersonyou

Daniel Alexanderstaffin a work session

Catherine Readand I think any anytime we get a conversation going about trees preserving trees conserving trees planting trees native trees saving trees from invasives which I mean please that the ivy hanging off trees is unreal it's a good thing I think the more conversations we have and the more people are focused on what we're talking about and why we're talking about it, the more educated, we have a very educated city. People care about environmental sustainability. They truly do. So every time we can give them tools or draw their attention to something that maybe they haven't considered, I think this is all positive. Anytime we can do that, I think that is a good thing. Anything else for the good of the

body?

Daniel AlexanderstaffMayor, we, yes, Mr. Alexander. Before we get too far, we wanted to draw your attention very quickly to our calendar, understanding that we are halfway through budget process. And as much as it says up there for the seventh general fund questions and discussion, if needed, we'll be prepared to bring back to you some specific expenditure revenue discussion items that I think will be helpful for you as we proceed through the process. I just want to be clear that that's what we want to discuss with you next week, along with anything else that you would like to discuss around the budget. I think that will prepare us well as we look to the last half of this process.

Catherine ReadOkay. Comments or questions about this schedule? Councilmember Peterson?

Thomas PetersonWell, only that there's a big hop between April 14 and April 28, what happens during that period?

Daniel AlexanderstaffWell, we do have meetings that are scheduled with you, too, that I think occur during that week. And so those should be already on your calendars. And so... Yeah, so that's a great promo for please get back with us and schedule those meetings if you haven't already.

Thomas PetersonIn terms of public discussion, it's three more meetings as presently scheduled. Am I reading that correctly? In terms of public hearings, correct. And opportunities for us to have public discussion.

Daniel AlexanderstaffAnd we have our engagement at April 16th.

Catherine ReadWhich is a Thursday. Thursday, April

Daniel Alexanderstaff16th. At 6 o'clock in the chambers.

Catherine ReadAnd the public is welcome.

Daniel AlexanderstaffAnd remote. And you can watch on TV.

Thomas PetersonMay I ask that you just say a little bit more about that in case that didn't quite get fully understood by people? Because I know you all have worked very hard in creating an interactive opportunity. If you could share that for the people who are

Daniel Alexanderstafflistening

Thomas Petersonhere.

Daniel AlexanderstaffSure, and the team will back me up for what I leave out at 1035. But essentially, we've arranged a meeting. Again, I'll repeat. in chambers on the 16th at 6 p.m. to 8 p.m. the design is to be interactive it is a hybrid event and that people can come in person a residence can watch online and interact remotely and we're also going to do some live polling as we go the intent of it is understanding that we presented the budget so we're not going to go through the full presentation or at a point where we can talk about priorities from the residents perspective. Um, it, you know, go over some, some of the basics on the budget, get feedback, and then be able to bring that feedback to council. Um, you know, by virtue of asking very specific questions. So, uh, it's a great opportunity

for folks again, to, to come on out in person, uh, to, to log in, uh, to engage online and, um, you know, give us feedback

Catherine Readon, on where we are at this point. Anything else? We're all good. Nothing for the good of the body. Then I'm going to adjourn this meeting at 10.36 p.m. on Tuesday. Thank you.

Billy BatesThank you. Thank you.